Haasonline Simple Trade Bot For BTCe and Bitstamp[Main topic]

[Stephan224]

bitcoinwisdom updates the macd in a different way; time   the bot macd is not wrong

Can You please be more specific, as I can´t imagine how and why should one indicatro be shown two ways? Furthermore when one of them force You to lose money?

I can explain this... if you compare the prices shown at bitcoinwisdom and the prices in the software then you will see a difference, this is the cause of the difference in the readings. The software reads the prices on its own moment. As you know the price is never the same, this changes every nanosecond. So here is the base of the difference in output.

I do not understand the focus on re-creating those charts. Personally i do not want this because i do not want to trade at the same time as all the other bots that use those prices. And besides this... what is this software really about? Yes, getting some good trades from it so why not focus on a good strategy?

I know what comes next... who do you find a good strategy? I was just working on a response explaining this better.

strange:
Sell      0.00000214
Buy   0.00000217
Sell      0.00000215
Buy   0.00000215
Sell      0.00000214
Buy   0.00000213
Sell      0.00000213

why bot sell under buy price or same price ? it;s backtest with MACD indicator but why

If you read this kind of values then it means the response is to fast. You need to slow it down to get some better readings, there are several ways to make this happen.

1. You can increase the update timer of the indicator. (its 2min by default for MACD, so you can have a try to see how 4min preforms)
2. You can slow down the moving averages, for example increase the short moving average by +2. (by default its 12, try 14 for example)
3. You can slow down the signal line of the MACD, for example increase it by +2. (by default its 12, try 14 for example)

Trying these things and watching the effect (and learning) from it is very useful. There is even a way to do this more easy. I had a little hard time to describe it, so i will explain this with a image.



As you see i have setup a trade-bot with a lot of the same indicators to it. But all those indicators have a slight difference. When i now benchmark/backtest this trade-bot it will not do good in trading of course. This is true overkill. But it gives me (and you) the output of all the indicator data and i am now able to really see the effect of the changes. The only thing i need to do is compare the response charts at the "Edit indicator" -page and i am able to make conclusions. (aka improve my strategy)



I really recommend to do these kind of test setups because it just make things more clear.

Of course the general recommendation remains standing: to avoid losses use the "FeeOvercome" insurance.

BTW: The backtest is designed to be pessimistic. If you did a 1 tot 1 compare to a bot that has run then the bot that has run will have made more profitable trades. This is because market orders are used and because real sell prices are used instead of static ones. We will shave this down a bit in the next update. But this concept itself remains standing, the end-benefit of having an pessimistic backtest/benchmark is to large. (to explain this easy: the exacter the backtest would be, the more can go wrong)

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[malonaba]

What should I expect by investing 2 BTC? 2% per day?

[g0re79]

bitcoinwisdom updates the macd in a different way; time   the bot macd is not wrong

Can You please be more specific, as I can´t imagine how and why should one indicatro be shown two ways? Furthermore when one of them force You to lose money?

I can explain this... if you compare the prices shown at bitcoinwisdom and the prices in the software then you will see a difference, this is the cause of the difference in the readings. The software reads the prices on its own moment. As you know the price is never the same, this changes every nanosecond. So here is the base of the difference in output.

Its not about different prices, they are fine. If I did not miss something, candles consists of summaries of prices of fulfilled trades per time period (in this case 15 minutes on both haasbot and Bitcoinwisdom). Even if the candle collection time was not synced, difference should be max half of they time, so 7.5 minutes in this case, so no big deal. But prices are quite the same, what is not is MACD histogram. So basically I mean input is same, but there is huge difference in output. Or does hassbot collect data different way than usually?

I do not understand the focus on re-creating those charts. Personally i do not want this because i do not want to trade at the same time as all the other bots that use those prices. And besides this... what is this software really about? Yes, getting some good trades from it so why not focus on a good strategy?

I know what comes next... who do you find a good strategy? I was just working on a response explaining this better.

Of course I don´t want to trade at the same times as others do. My point was to try to feed same data to both Bitcoinwisdom and Haasbot and see if the results match each other, because if not, there is something wrong.. Then I can´t fully rely on hassbots logic and find out good strategy. Its like asking two people how many is 2+3 and hearing different results. Or more like asking whats the time - if someone reply with +/-half a hour accuracy, I can get past that, but if its more than 3 hours difference, its useless info.

[papasmurph]

Doge Ltc:

2/19/2014 10:10 PM   Sell      0.00008546   0.0      0.0   0.0   0.00341840000000000   0.00341840000000000   -0.00341840000000000
2/20/2014 12:11 AM   Buy   0.00008594         0.00008546         0.00343760000000000      
2/20/2014 12:49 AM   Sell      0.00008614   0.00008594      0.00400000   0.00400000   0.00344560000000000   0.01030160000000000   -0.00630160000000000
2/20/2014 1:31 AM   Buy   0.00008549         0.00008614         0.00341960000000000      
2/20/2014 4:21 AM   Sell      0.00008575   0.00008549      0.00520000   0.00920000   0.00343000000000000   0.01715120000000000   -0.00795120000000000
2/20/2014 4:56 AM   Buy   0.00008515         0.00008575         0.00340600000000000      
2/20/2014 5:41 AM   Sell      0.00008541   0.00008515      0.00520000   0.01440000   0.00341640000000000   0.02397360000000000   -0.00957360000000000
2/20/2014 8:02 AM   Buy   0.00008406         0.00008541         0.00336240000000000      
2/20/2014 8:16 AM   Sell      0.00008410   0.00008406      0.00080000   0.01520000   0.00336400000000000   0.03070000000000000   -0.01550000000000000
2/20/2014 10:31 AM   Buy   0.00008412         0.00008410         0.00336480000000000      

[xpumpa]

I have problem with Cryptsy API i think. No data for benchmark and often failed get data from crryptsy (see log)
Where is the problem ? Cryptsy ?

2014-21-02 11:05:55.052   |TRACKER_INFO|   Reading of Cryptsy failed, retrying....
2014-21-02 11:05:56.097   |TRACKER_INFO|   Reading of Cryptsy failed, next retry on next update.
2014-21-02 11:05:56.097   |ERROR|   Cannot access child value on Newtonsoft.Json.Linq.JValue.
2014-21-02 11:05:56.097   |TRACKER_INFO|   Cannot access child value on Newtonsoft.Json.Linq.JValue.
2014-21-02 11:05:57.252   |ERROR|   MAX is not a supported currency.

[krach]

doge LTC
18.02.2014 16:46   Buy   0.00008407         0.0         0.00006725600000000      
18.02.2014 20:10   Sell      0.00008719   0.00008407      0.00124800   0.00124800   0.00006975200000000   0.00013700800000000   0.00111099200000000
18.02.2014 21:41   Buy   0.00008562         0.00008719         0.00006849600000000      
19.02.2014 00:58   Sell      0.00008968   0.00008562      0.00162400   0.00287200   0.00007174400000000   0.00027724800000000   0.00259475200000000
19.02.2014 04:26   Buy   0.00008999         0.00008968         0.00007199200000000      
19.02.2014 07:52   Sell      0.00009066   0.00008999      0.00026800   0.00314000   0.00007252800000000   0.00042176800000000   0.00271823200000000
19.02.2014 10:22   Buy   0.00008799         0.00009066         0.00007039200000000   

[Stephan224]

I have problem with Cryptsy API i think. No data for benchmark and often failed get data from crryptsy (see log)
Where is the problem ? Cryptsy ?

2014-21-02 11:05:55.052   |TRACKER_INFO|   Reading of Cryptsy failed, retrying....
2014-21-02 11:05:56.097   |TRACKER_INFO|   Reading of Cryptsy failed, next retry on next update.
2014-21-02 11:05:56.097   |ERROR|   Cannot access child value on Newtonsoft.Json.Linq.JValue.
2014-21-02 11:05:56.097   |TRACKER_INFO|   Cannot access child value on Newtonsoft.Json.Linq.JValue.
2014-21-02 11:05:57.252   |ERROR|   MAX is not a supported currency.

The biggest coins are cached from the webserver, not all the alt-coins. It would be a impossible job to do.

What you see here is a 2 times try to get a response from Cryptsy and both tries have failed. So its very safe to conclude this is related to Cryptsy. (i see them too sometimes)

Its not about different prices, they are fine. If I did not miss something, candles consists of summaries of prices of fulfilled trades per time period (in this case 15 minutes on both haasbot and Bitcoinwisdom). Even if the candle collection time was not synced, difference should be max half of they time, so 7.5 minutes in this case, so no big deal. But prices are quite the same, what is not is MACD histogram. So basically I mean input is same, but there is huge difference in output. Or does hassbot collect data different way than usually?

Right on. We collect our prices differently. We do not make use of the fixed prices. This gives us the advantage of being unique (even per users of this software) and just be before or just behind all the other trade-bots.

BTW Most of the indicators will never look to a candle, indicators will only look at the current buy price. That is where the math is based upon.

Of course I don´t want to trade at the same times as others do. My point was to try to feed same data to both Bitcoinwisdom and Haasbot and see if the results match each other, because if not, there is something wrong.. Then I can´t fully rely on hassbots logic and find out good strategy. Its like asking two people how many is 2+3 and hearing different results. Or more like asking whats the time - if someone reply with +/-half a hour accuracy, I can get past that, but if its more than 3 hours difference, its useless info.

There is nothing wrong, its almost impossible to say there is anything wrong because pure mathematics are used. It will just respond the same, if the base is the same to. But if it is not then the effect of the differences will grow in the math. Especially on a EMA, in that math we use a exponential for the moving average.

I will be able to prove this to you (and anybody else who want this) later on. At the moment the backtest/benchmark uses its own prices, but in the future it will be possible to import information from the API of bitcoincharts. In here the so called fixed prices will becomes available all the others use too and then i can show it.

[Stephan224]

Last time it took about 2 weeks to develop and add the backtest/benchmarking into the software. It was a big operation but besides 1 (maybe 2) small errors everything went very good. Anyway, is was a very big update to the software.

At the current moment i am happy to tell that we will get some kind of a repeat of such a big update, but this time on a shorter timespan. The next update will be very big again and it is estimated to be released somewhere mid-next week if all goes well. Because the update will be big again, i will again do a request later on for a group of testers. Last time that concept worked very, very well. We where really happy with all the comments we had recieved.

Alright, let me tell what this update will be all about this time.

CEX.IO
Say hallo to CEX.IO because this exchange will be supported at the next update. We can now fully confirm this. (testing goes great)

Extending tuning capabilities
As announced we are working on auto-tuning for an entire trade-bot. This technology will try to get the most out of the software in the most dynamic way possible. Based on our estimations this is the most complex and most advanced feature that we will be able to offer. (again, do not think this is our limit)

One of the advantages during development is that we where also able to pull some more limits on the trade indicators itself. So totally against the shedule we where able to offer something extra (and usefull). I am talking about more advanced tuning capabilities inside the indicators itself. Most of you have seen the "Auto-setup" by now, well we will be 4 more buttons here and they will say:

- More buy signals
- Less buy signals
- More sell signals
- Less sell signals

The buttons will do what they say. So if you press one of them the parameters of the indicator gets adjusted and more/less signals will be produced. (its one of the methods the auto-tuning for a trade-bot will use too in its tuning proces)

Adding safeties/indicators/insurances
The past days we have recieved a lot of suggestions to make trade server just bit better. And i did not told this, but we can add a lot of things really easy (and fast) to the software thanks to the concept behind it. So we where able to work out some interesting ideas from the users and this is the result of this.

Safety: Static/Fixed Roof-in
This safety will do exactly the reversed of the "Roof-out" safety. So you can set a high price (a prive above the current prices) and you can leave it up to the safety to buy the coins if the current price passes the high price that you have set.

Safety: Dynamic Roof-in
This safety can also be compared to the dynamic roof-out, but again the signal that will be produced is reversed. So instead of a sell signal a buy signal is produced. The biggest advantage of this safety is that its able to correct itself. So in time the roof-in price goes up to and the trading will continue/restore on a higher price level.

Tip: gets those brain juices flowing here... pump and dump?!

Indicator: MA-Histogram
The "MA-Histogram" itself does not exist, this indicator is in fact a MACD indicator that is based on a SMA instead of a EMA. So this means this indicator will produce totally different trade signals at a different momentum. But this is a indicator that can be really interesting compared to the EMA based one.

Insurance: Disable on losses after X trades
This is a new insurance, added on request. With this insurance it becomes possible to evaluate the trade-bot preformance and to shut-down/block automaticly if needed. The idea behind it that you can set a number of trades and after this number the trade-bot must be profitable, if not everything will be blocked to avoid more losses.

Insurance: Never Sell Cheaper
With this insurance it becomes possible to block trades if the sell price is lower then the last buy price. Of course this will not protect you from losses because of the trading fees. But is will just set another minimum line and guard that. This insurance is proven to be very usefull to insure MA -based indicators from (big) losses.

Insurance: Only sell at double fee-costs
With this insurance it becomes possible to replace the fee-overcome insurance. Because with this insurance you can alsmost do the same, however the major difference it that is will only insure the sell trade. (in other words: its perfect for currencies that has a uptrend)


The old-new interface or the Classic Windows interface
At this moment a few people are having a look to this interface. The comments we recieve are great, besides the happy responces of the better overview we also get some very good suggestions for it. Most of those suggestions are implemented and this is how its looks like at the current moment.





This interface will also be added to the next update as a alternative interface. Everything you can do here can be done in the web-interface too, we will keep them equal in functionality and controls.

Please note in this screenshot shows a few new features too. I did not mention them in this text, but if you look carefully you will see the "Sell now" and "Buy now" buttons listed to shift position of the coins of the bot. And you see "Load" and "Save" listed in the toolbar near the trade-bot selection. The next update will make it possible to load/save your trade-bot in a separate file(s). 

[xpumpa]

Nice INFO Stephen. Thanks.

About alternate coins, you can cache historical info from time when server is online, so after few hours you have price info from alternate coins, and can be save to xml or something and benchmark can work with this data. Or i'm wrong ?

[solarion]

Sounds fantastic! I'd be up for trying out new features. How long does it usually take to get an upgrade coupon for us old skool STB users? To be fair I submitted my email response just yesterday, I'm just anxious to try out the advanced bot.

Keep up the good work!

[SmokedMolex]

@Stephan

Are you going to extend our license time when you have something that actually works?

I don't think it's fair that we have paid for broken software and lost time on our license agreement with you.

[Stephan224]

@xpumpa:
Yes the software collects the prices on its own. But no i am sorry but the part of saving and loading currency data files is left behind. So that can not be done anymore. But i will have a look if this can make a comeback later on (when its also possible to load the other historical prices).

BTW Personally i only use the price high/low indicator for the alt-coins.

@solarion:
I will be progressing the emails again in a minute. It should not take any longer.

@SmokedMolex:
If the software is broken then it is a reasonable thing to do. But it is not broken, it working smoothly for a while now (despite some small update issues. And why else are we focusing on new features these days). The main problem is that you did not understand it, now you have then benchmark and suddenly all the claims you made about the software isn't working are gone. Well i can tell we have made no changes to the trading engine itself. We only added the benchmark/backtest to it the past period.

BTW did you also not own a donation license?

[silverston]

Can I set up the bot so that one only buys and the other only sells?
For example - a pair BTC/LTC.
 can one bot to do few buy, ie as long as there is a buy signal, and other bot, when came sell signal, starts to sell.
 100 LTC 50/50. One bot only buy 50LTC, second only sell 50LTC. 5LTC as a unit.

[papasmurph]

here is my problem,
the Simply Tradebot 0.9.0.14beta is trading with Cryptsy very well. That would mean there is an issue with  0.9.7.0 Tradeserver the current bot going

[Stephan224]

Can I set up the bot so that one only buys and the other only sells?
For example - a pair BTC/LTC.
 can one bot to do few buy, ie as long as there is a buy signal, and other bot, when came sell signal, starts to sell.
 100 LTC 50/50. One bot only buy 50LTC, second only sell 50LTC. 5LTC as a unit.

This kind of setup is not possible. Each bot tracks its own order and its only changes position if the order is progressed. The only way to make this kind of setup work is to make a few bots and let them trade with a small amount on separate strategies. Its a strategy i personally also use.

here is my problem,
the Simply Tradebot 0.9.0.14beta is trading with Cryptsy very well. That would mean there is an issue with  0.9.7.0 Tradeserver the current bot going

Which version did you start first? This looks like a API conflict to me. (both versions use the same source code, the only difference is that the trade-server is capable of retrying)

[silverston]

Can I set up the bot so that one only buys and the other only sells?
For example - a pair BTC/LTC.
 can one bot to do few buy, ie as long as there is a buy signal, and other bot, when came sell signal, starts to sell.
 100 LTC 50/50. One bot only buy 50LTC, second only sell 50LTC. 5LTC as a unit.

This kind of setup is not possible. Each bot tracks its own order and its only changes position if the order is progressed. The only way to make this kind of setup work is to make a few bots and let them trade with a small amount on separate strategies. Its a strategy i personally also use.

here is my problem,
the Simply Tradebot 0.9.0.14beta is trading with Cryptsy very well. That would mean there is an issue with  0.9.7.0 Tradeserver the current bot going

Which version did you start first? This looks like a API conflict to me. (both versions use the same source code, the only difference is that the trade-server is capable of retrying)

you mean, if I use the Trade server with three bots, I can not configure a one bot for Sell, and the other to Buy?

[Stephan224]

you mean, if I use the Trade server with three bots, I can not configure a one bot for Sell, and the other to Buy?

You cannot make that work. The concept does not allow it because of the coin position tracking.

I could make a insurance to avoid that the coin position changes after a trade. However if i make this a lot can go wrong, for example if there are no coins the bot will still try to sell them. The bot will no longer be aware of how much it have to trade with. It will just try blindly.


Edit:
Today i have added 3 6 pages to the help describing (and showing) how all the safeties and insurances work. I hope this will help out explaining a few things.

Drop-loss safeties
Roof-out safeties
Roof-in safeties (these will be added mid next week with the update)

Fee insurances
Price insurances
Remaining insurances

Please note the screenshots i used on these help pages can also be found in the default web-interface. There is no difference, i just use the old-new interface because the charts are a little bit more clear to read.

Edit:
Added 3 more pages.

[papasmurph]

Can I set up the bot so that one only buys and the other only sells?
For example - a pair BTC/LTC.
 can one bot to do few buy, ie as long as there is a buy signal, and other bot, when came sell signal, starts to sell.
 100 LTC 50/50. One bot only buy 50LTC, second only sell 50LTC. 5LTC as a unit.

This kind of setup is not possible. Each bot tracks its own order and its only changes position if the order is progressed. The only way to make this kind of setup work is to make a few bots and let them trade with a small amount on separate strategies. Its a strategy i personally also use.

here is my problem,
the Simply Tradebot 0.9.0.14beta is trading with Cryptsy very well. That would mean there is an issue with  0.9.7.0 Tradeserver the current bot going

Which version did you start first? This looks like a API conflict to me. (both versions use the same source code, the only difference is that the trade-server is capable of retrying)

hm. it was working straight too until 2 days ago. so I try to start 0.9.7.0 first alone for a while.

[zigmas]

Does it work under Linux ? Where can I look at user manual ?

[xpumpa]

Are you planning to add ability to send email when sell/buy order placed by bot ? For everyone who don't want look to app/web interface all the time.