[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread

[knybe]

This forum is fast approaching clusterfuck status.

[navitatl]

one point (although it might be a perceived one) that icebreaker makes is that it is probably worth it for ActiveMining to scrap the avalon clone assembly and take those chips/materials/clones and sell them sooner than later.  ActiveMining might actually be able to sell them for a profit (or hopefully break even at least).  and then not have the infrastructure costs (racks, power, etc) to have to cover for those machines, nor have to deal with the rising difficulty that reduces any payout these will give.  even if that means that the dividends wont go up, if you are indeed in this long-term then the short-term dividend increase is LITERALLY pennies, and when compared to either reinvesting that capital elsewhere or returning it to shareholders seems to be unwise.  it would seem that would be a strategy/idea to at least discuss and/or put up to shareholder vote.  if we all believe in the long-term viability of ActiveMining then it will come from it's own chips, not some old technology that prob wont have an ROI.

I think you're right.  From my perspective, the Avalon chips already served their purpose. They provided legitimacy for AMC while Ken raised the $1mil. Having them on order and plans in place to put them online showed investors that he's already got stuff happening. But at this point, if we can just flip 'em for a good price and avoid all the extra costs/work that come with bringing them online, I think that could be a totally viable strategy.

[neilol]

one point (although it might be a perceived one) that icebreaker makes is that it is probably worth it for ActiveMining to scrap the avalon clone assembly and take those chips/materials/clones and sell them sooner than later.  ActiveMining might actually be able to sell them for a profit (or hopefully break even at least).  and then not have the infrastructure costs (racks, power, etc) to have to cover for those machines, nor have to deal with the rising difficulty that reduces any payout these will give.  even if that means that the dividends wont go up, if you are indeed in this long-term then the short-term dividend increase is LITERALLY pennies, and when compared to either reinvesting that capital elsewhere or returning it to shareholders seems to be unwise.  it would seem that would be a strategy/idea to at least discuss and/or put up to shareholder vote.  if we all believe in the long-term viability of ActiveMining then it will come from it's own chips, not some old technology that prob wont have an ROI.

I think you're right.  From my perspective, the Avalon chips already served their purpose. They provided legitimacy for AMC while Ken raised the $1mil. Having them on order and plans in place to put them online showed investors that he's already got stuff happening. But at this point, if we can just flip 'em for a good price and avoid all the extra costs/work that come with bringing them online, I think that could be a totally viable strategy.

The experience gained from actually setting up a farm, troubleshooting, powering, etc. has some value. I don't believe Ken+staff has actually done this before.

Shouldn't be discounted is all I'm saying - I have no idea what the going price is for bulk Avalon chips

[crumbs]

...
 From my perspective, the Avalon chips already served their purpose. They provided legitimacy for AMC while Ken raised the $1mil. ...

Lolz.

[VinceSamios]

one point (although it might be a perceived one) that icebreaker makes is that it is probably worth it for ActiveMining to scrap the avalon clone assembly and take those chips/materials/clones and sell them sooner than later.  ActiveMining might actually be able to sell them for a profit (or hopefully break even at least).  and then not have the infrastructure costs (racks, power, etc) to have to cover for those machines, nor have to deal with the rising difficulty that reduces any payout these will give.  even if that means that the dividends wont go up, if you are indeed in this long-term then the short-term dividend increase is LITERALLY pennies, and when compared to either reinvesting that capital elsewhere or returning it to shareholders seems to be unwise.  it would seem that would be a strategy/idea to at least discuss and/or put up to shareholder vote.  if we all believe in the long-term viability of ActiveMining then it will come from it's own chips, not some old technology that prob wont have an ROI.

I think you're right.  From my perspective, the Avalon chips already served their purpose. They provided legitimacy for AMC while Ken raised the $1mil. Having them on order and plans in place to put them online showed investors that he's already got stuff happening. But at this point, if we can just flip 'em for a good price and avoid all the extra costs/work that come with bringing them online, I think that could be a totally viable strategy.

I disagree - 100% of the hardware currently hashing is within +/- 15% of the power consumption per GH of the avalon chips - as such, 100% of the hardware currently hashing needs to be replaced with far more energy efficient hardware, plus an additional 18,000TH before the Avalon chips are no longer profitable. As such, they will definitely provide ROI before they become obsolete. If the price of BTC goes up, then they will remain profitable even longer.

That is $148million in additional hardware purchases of the cheapest $/GH hardware on the market... (Cointerra's chip, and BFL's second gen, both $8/GH) - that is on top of the estimated $15-25mil already spent on ASIC's - without the price of BTC going up, an additional $148mil is not going to be spent on mining hardware.

TLDR - Even Avalon chips are going to be profitable for a long time coming. ActM as a mining company should mine, not resell chips at potentially a loss.

[tiros]

Can someone explain are Avalon chips already delivered, and if they are to quote that post.
Thanks.

[N_S]

Can someone explain are Avalon chips already delivered, and if they are to quote that post.
Thanks.

They haven't been delivered. They are delayed.

[Vbs]

one point (although it might be a perceived one) that icebreaker makes is that it is probably worth it for ActiveMining to scrap the avalon clone assembly and take those chips/materials/clones and sell them sooner than later.  ActiveMining might actually be able to sell them for a profit (or hopefully break even at least).  and then not have the infrastructure costs (racks, power, etc) to have to cover for those machines, nor have to deal with the rising difficulty that reduces any payout these will give.  even if that means that the dividends wont go up, if you are indeed in this long-term then the short-term dividend increase is LITERALLY pennies, and when compared to either reinvesting that capital elsewhere or returning it to shareholders seems to be unwise.  it would seem that would be a strategy/idea to at least discuss and/or put up to shareholder vote.  if we all believe in the long-term viability of ActiveMining then it will come from it's own chips, not some old technology that prob wont have an ROI.

I think you're right.  From my perspective, the Avalon chips already served their purpose. They provided legitimacy for AMC while Ken raised the $1mil. Having them on order and plans in place to put them online showed investors that he's already got stuff happening. But at this point, if we can just flip 'em for a good price and avoid all the extra costs/work that come with bringing them online, I think that could be a totally viable strategy.

This is a decision to be made when the chips arrive and the machines are being assembled, so that their ROI can be calculated with much less error than today.

[EskimoBob]

If you look at this http://sdrv.ms/16njy51 (from: http://www.reddit.com/user/sdmented) most of the mining Co's never make back the money invested.
Only chips show a positive return on investment are the imaginary chips

[Stuartuk]

Official announcement, project plan update, weekly report, monthly financial statements etc are published and people have a on-topic discussion about the released "news". This is what "The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread" should look like.

'Project plans' mean F@ck all.

Business plans, schemes, forecasts etc in this industry - you can wipe your arse on them all they are that useless - they DO NOT reliably reflect what will happen.

What has value is actions.

ACtM have a partnership with eASIC and that is soon to be announced. That has more value than 10 pages of b@llshit forecasts and business plans that will never materialize.

If in doubt check out BFL. And Avalon. And BTCGarden. And IceDrill. Mt Gox. The list goes on no doubt. Anyone care to add?

[Stuartuk]

The board as it stands right now is made up of 1 or 2 smart individuals and the rest are just clowns that want insider information.

You are in no position to know that, so it's a completely spurious accusation.

If you believe it's true, why haven't you f@cked off to IceDrill where you have been making friends lately?

Why are you still here?

[tiros]

Can someone explain are Avalon chips already delivered, and if they are to quote that post.
Thanks.

They haven't been delivered. They are delayed.

Thanks!

[Stuartuk]

I'm looking for credible answers.... It might as well come from Stuartuk (That laughing stock of this forum).

I gave you a detailed list of credible and accurate answers but you have completely ignored them and instead come back and criticize my 'reputation'. In my book that makes you a moron. If I'm a laughing stock (which I wouldn't deny as that's for others to decide) why aren't you laughing? You seem a bit...upset??? Are you upset?

[zefyr0s]

zefyr0s, the NDA is there for a good reason. He cannot break it and he cannot risk the business over it. This has all been considered and discussed.

Oh, I completely understand, my point wasn't for him to break the NDA but perhaps release some information not covered under the NDA which he would obviously first get permission to release. I do feel that other topics could be discussed such as distribution plans, price point, marketing opportunities, ideas for the website (besides that it needs to be updated, I know some people posted solid ideas which is great.) Basically I think people want Ken to update us on ActM the company. Obviously some of this stuff would be jumping the gun, and these are just ideas, but that's why we're here, no?

I think the public arguing could for sure take a rest. If you have something to say to someone personally (outside of a response to a point made), maybe lets take it to PM's or start an OT thread elsewhere..

If you look at this http://sdrv.ms/16njy51 (from: http://www.reddit.com/user/sdmented) most of the mining Co's never make back the money invested.
Only chips show a positive return on investment are the imaginary chips

This is why it's a good reason ActM isn't solely a mining company. Even if we sunk the cost of the Avalons, the loss would be recouped pretty quickly through sales, and any mining done is just a bonus after there is an actual product to sell.

[Stuartuk]

I think the public arguing could for sure take a rest. If you have something to say to someone, maybe lets take it to PM's or start an OT thread elsewhere..

Don't you think it's funny that the biggest arguers on here today (Bargraphics and miceMan) are both active on the IceDrill thread? One says he doesn't even hold ACtM shares anymore and the other has said the company Board are insider trading so why is he still holding shares? He could sell now for a profit and get out if things are that bad. So why are these two people here?.?.?.?.?

[N_S]

I think we'd all be better off if we left the vitriol off the Official Discussion thread.

People disagree with eachother - shocker! If you think someone's full of shit, let them have their say. You're not tasked with managing/co-managing their portfolio.

This has essentially turned into: stop liking what I don't like!

[zefyr0s]

I think the public arguing could for sure take a rest. If you have something to say to someone, maybe lets take it to PM's or start an OT thread elsewhere..

Don't you think it's funny that the biggest arguers on here today (Bargraphics and miceMan) are both active on the IceDrill thread? One says he doesn't even hold ACtM shares anymore and the other has said the company Board are insider trading so why is he still holding shares? He could sell now for a profit and get out if things are that bad. So why are these two people here?.?.?.?.?

Yeah, well it's to be expected amongst competitors. I say lets let ice drill flounder if it's going to and quit talking about it. Christ, it's almost like there's more anti-icedrill talk in here than ActM discussion. This only hurts the overall image of the company in general. As a board member, I understand your dedication and defense of ActM is what drives this sentiment, but I don't want to see it referenced on every page of the ActM thread, personally. If they go belly-up, great. If they don't, good still. Competition drives innovation.

[N_S]

I think the public arguing could for sure take a rest. If you have something to say to someone, maybe lets take it to PM's or start an OT thread elsewhere..

Don't you think it's funny that the biggest arguers on here today (Bargraphics and miceMan) are both active on the IceDrill thread? One says he doesn't even hold ACtM shares anymore and the other has said the company Board are insider trading so why is he still holding shares? He could sell now for a profit and get out if things are that bad. So why are these two people here?.?.?.?.?

Yeah, well it's to be expected amongst competitors. I say lets let ice drill flounder if it's going to and quit talking about it. Christ, it's almost like there's more anti-icedrill talk in here than ActM discussion. This only hurts the overall image of the company in general. As a board member, I understand your dedication and defense of ActM is what drives this sentiment, but I don't want to see it referenced on every page of the ActM thread, personally. If they go belly-up, great. If they don't, good still. Competition drives innovation.

This is bang on! Thank you!

[Stuartuk]

I think we'd all be better off if we left the vitriol off the Official Discussion thread.

People disagree with eachother - shocker! If you think someone's full of shit, let them have their say. You're not tasked with managing/co-managing their portfolio.

This has essentially turned into: stop liking what I don't like!

I think this has for a long time now been not about disagreement but about a commercial attack on your competitors. Don't think any of this is personal - except when people are genuinely offended - these exchanges are strategic and well planned. I believe they need to be tackled head first.

[zefyr0s]

You're right there, it seems that is what may be a part of their intentions. But from there it comes to whether we respond personally or to their points which does get frustrating when they continue to make them, to that I don't have a solution unfortunately. We could just refute their points each time but that would get tiring. And on the other hand you can't just ignore them flat-out because then it may start to affect shareholder confidence.

Even if they stop though, there will be someone else, there always will be.