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Author Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s  (Read 875472 times)
jspielberg
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December 13, 2013, 12:27:22 PM
 #4041

I hope they don't deliver before the 31 of december.
I will ask for a refund like many others.
I hope they keep their words, they will allow whoever wants to refund to get their refunds.

Full BTC refunds or USD refunds? There has been some contention over the issue. I wasn't sure if they actually answered if they're going to do a full btc refund or not.


If they are offering full btc refund for btc purchasers, then you would be an idiot to not jump on it... I did with my Avalon b3 pre-order when full btc refunds were offered (no regrets there).

If they are only offering USD equivalent, you would be an idiot to ask for one, as the hardware will mine more than the dime on the dollar you would receive from the exchange rate. 

All that being said, they are on track to meeting the end of year deadline... So none of this may matter, but if I had to guess, based in the initial sales strategy, they are planning on refunding BTC but in USD at the new exchange rate.  So... Btwn 6 and 7 btc...

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jspielberg
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December 13, 2013, 12:49:47 PM
 #4042

I think that is the same for all of us.  This wasn't designed to be a charity, but a business decision with the potential for profit.  If we wanted to spend 50BTC to get back 7BTC. We could have just played satoshi dice. 

I don't care if the exchange rate is $1 or $10M... I ordered the thing to make more Bitcoin than I put in.  Anything less is going to be disappointing.

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December 13, 2013, 12:55:37 PM
 #4043

you spend 50 btc for hashfast batch 1?Huh
jspielberg
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December 13, 2013, 01:09:19 PM
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When I asked HF about their chips and boards and also the issue about power spikes that may kill the entire board as it just has 2 pcie connectors directly plugged in and brought up KnC and how their controller was very sensitive to power spikes the answer I received was "well, I don't know anything about the KnC miners but I promise you [said in emphasis] WE OVERBUILT THIS PRODUCT [at the same time pointing and even enthusiastically tapping on the plexiglass as if it somehow it made the chip better...!?] THERE IS 15 POUNDS OF COPPER ON THIS BOARD and there is PLENTY OF ROOM TO OVERCLOCK AND IT WOULD NOT FAIL" because they used Seasonic power supplies, which is the OEM builder of the Corsair PSUs that I had connected to the KnC that died and it was the Platinum rated PSUs as well.  When I said that he was saying that it was most likely that I may have used a PSU that was not superior to theirs but when I said that Seasonic BUILDS the Corsair PSUs he did not even know that was the case.... and the water leak was still not even wiped off, the worse part was that the case had thumb screws so they didn't even need a screwdriver to open the case, why didn't they just wipe the water off in the first place?

I just hope that their real engineers really did make a good product.

Sounds like you were in Vegas. 

My take is that HF has very good engineering (Simon, Amy and others), but somewhat sleazy sales as marketing (john and others).  My guess is, anyone with any technical skill was all hands on deck with the chip/board bring up back at the main office... Sales and marketing went to Vegas.  Not cleaning up the spill is very unprofessional when everyone knows that water can kill electronics... Forms a very bad association with the customer. 

They were probably like... "Well, it's not plugged in.  And it doesn't even have a chip in there under the heat sink... Why bother cleaning it up."

I guess a funny response to the case salesman they had there would have been, "Did you over engineer the cooling system with the feature that it leaks at trade shows?"

jspielberg
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December 13, 2013, 01:10:26 PM
 #4045

you spend 50 btc for hashfast batch 1?Huh

Correct... That was the price on day 1 ordering.

Melbustus
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December 13, 2013, 01:35:53 PM
 #4046


...

HashFast already paid for Batch 1's MPP chips and they are being manufactured at TSMC, the world's most advanced wafer fabrication plant.

You may rest assured Batch 1 customers will receive their extra MPP miniboards as soon as possible.   Smiley



Thanks for the info. When did you place the order for Batch 1's MPP chips with TSMC, and when do you expect to have the chips in-hand?

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
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defcon23
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December 13, 2013, 02:30:32 PM
 #4047

I was at the Inside Bitcoins conference today in Las Vegas...

yesterday the hashfast stand was looking a bit empty, with just the lovely Cara there to hold the fort and fend off the masses.. but today they actually had a Baby Jet to show off.

disclaimers.  it was not plugged in.  it wasn't hashing.  it was actually a bit damaged (a puddle of water can be clearly seen on the board from a leak of the water system).  They said it had been hastily packed and South West Airlines assisted with the rough treatment to cause the water cooling system leak.   Even if they HAD been able to power it up, the chips aren't yet hashing at full rate.  According to hashfast's twitter feed, they've just today got one die to hash (at 100+ GH/s), and have yet to try all four dies at the same time.  Its not so simple, as four dies will use four times the power, which will stress the entire board and all its components so they're taking it slow.

So.. these pictures are mainly to provide a context of what was shown..





The lovely Cara, showing her wares (yeah yeah, i know you're waiting for the punchline but I'm definitely not going to say  '... And the baby jet' ;-)


Which is mainly a large PC tower case, with a nice transparent window showing a single GN chip board...  complete with water cooling system.   The PC's chassis still had its drive bays intact.. these can probably be removed, as they're a tad superfluous.



You can see the puddle of water underneath the pump module...   definitely a good reason not to fire it up.. (and that the board isn't hashing at anywhere close to full speed yet so there'd be little point)



A closeup of the board...




The 'sales sheet' that hashfast was handing out to interested punters.

They also had a nice line in mugs and t-shirts... !



and nobody intrested by the watelcooling problem Huh anybody see the water under the pcb ?? !! Huh
SolarSilver
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December 13, 2013, 02:45:03 PM
 #4048

you spend 50 btc for hashfast batch 1?Huh

Correct... That was the price on day 1 ordering.

it dropped to about BTC 40 / unit early September, but that still means impossible to ever break even.
dbbit
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December 13, 2013, 02:47:08 PM
 #4049

Sorry, but is it related to what i was saying? I said that since that the MPP is based on GH and not chips, they would ship a lower amount of chips to obtain the promised performance, they have no reason to ship us 4 board per BJ. They will ship us 3.

The MPP is based on number of BabyJets:
"In fact, we will give you up to 400% more hashing capacity than the Baby Jet you purchased."

So if HashFast wants to market themselves as having "HALF A TERRAHASH/s (500GH/s) on a single chip.", then "Baby Jet I purchased" becomes a 500ghs machine, and MPP is 2 TH extra. If HashFast wants to insist for the purpose of the MPP that "Baby Jet" is a 400ghs machine, then don't call it a "HALF A TERRAHASH" machine in another place. You can't have it both ways.


But I grant you they have some statements in their that MIGHT have them be able to get away with that. e.g.
"we will increase your mining capacity to up to 2 Terahashes!"

But that would mean that they can run 2 Terahashes on 3 chips, ala 666ghs per chip. Not going to happen.


Besides, it's cheap for them to just ship a 4th chip. You still have to purchase the motherboard to run it, and they'll probably pocket more on those than the manufacturing cost of the chip. They could technically sell their motherboards for $5'000 each and still be fulfilling the MPP - there are no terms anywhere that describes the motherboard cost.

cedivad
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December 13, 2013, 02:53:29 PM
 #4050

You are right about that, sorry. (that's finally a good news).
Anyway, the motherboards are coming for free, included with the chip (there is an official update on that).

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
gmaxwell
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December 13, 2013, 03:13:18 PM
 #4051

CT may have been more honest about the time frame but still they charged quite a bit.
FWIW, HF's prices for the first batch were almost exactly 2x higher than cointerra per hashrate— a fact that was perfectly reasonable because they were talking about OCTOBER SHIPPING, and sure yea, delays happen, but it now seems apparent that they had no intention of ever meeting that advertised target I can't imagine any of the first batch customers would have bought HF instead of CT had they known the truth.

Bitcoin will not be compromised
Jutarul
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December 13, 2013, 03:37:21 PM
 #4052

CT may have been more honest about the time frame but still they charged quite a bit.
FWIW, HF's prices for the first batch were almost exactly 2x higher than cointerra per hashrate— a fact that was perfectly reasonable because they were talking about OCTOBER SHIPPING, and sure yea, delays happen, but it now seems apparent that they had no intention of ever meeting that advertised target I can't imagine any of the first batch customers would have bought HF instead of CT had they known the truth.
Interestingly Cointerra may have an interest in joining any litigation efforts, since their sales probably fell short due to the HF deception.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
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defcon23
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December 13, 2013, 03:38:35 PM
 #4053

CT may have been more honest about the time frame but still they charged quite a bit.
FWIW, HF's prices for the first batch were almost exactly 2x higher than cointerra per hashrate— a fact that was perfectly reasonable because they were talking about OCTOBER SHIPPING, and sure yea, delays happen, but it now seems apparent that they had no intention of ever meeting that advertised target I can't imagine any of the first batch customers would have bought HF instead of CT had they known the truth.


 i completly agree with you , all it said there.
DeathAndTaxes
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December 13, 2013, 03:53:33 PM
 #4054

because they used Seasonic power supplies, which is the OEM builder of the Corsair PSUs that I had connected to the KnC that died and it was the Platinum rated PSUs as well.  When I said that he was saying that it was most likely that I may have used a PSU that was not superior to theirs but when I said that Seasonic BUILDS the Corsair PSUs he did not even know that was the case

SeaSonic doesn't build all of Corsair's PSU.  It also changes from year to year.  The only way to know for sure is to lookup the UL code or look for SeaSonic mark on the transformer (requires opening the PSU). 
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/How-to-Discover-Your-Power-Supplys-Real-Manufacturer/370/3

If you want SeaSonic quality buy a SeaSonic.
DeathAndTaxes
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December 13, 2013, 03:58:21 PM
 #4055

Besides, it's cheap for them to just ship a 4th chip. You still have to purchase the motherboard to run it, and they'll probably pocket more on those than the manufacturing cost of the chip. They could technically sell their motherboards for $5'000 each and still be fulfilling the MPP - there are no terms anywhere that describes the motherboard cost.

The MPP includes the "motherboard" although I think that is a bad name (motherboard implies there is one per system) these are just boards with an arbitrary number connected to a single host.  Essentially HF is shipped an entire complete card (as seen in the photos upthread). The customer still needs to provide cooling, power and case but HF clarified the MPP is for complete boards.

However they don't need 666 GH/s per board.  Remember the completed substrate uses up to 4 dies.  When I asked for clarification on the MPP, HF indicated they have the ability to ship boards with only 1,2, or 3 dies active.   If they wanted to they could pawn off the junk boards which have one or more defective dies which they disable and ship those as the protection.

Given all the lies and deception so far, nothing would surprise me at this point.
jspielberg
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December 13, 2013, 04:22:53 PM
 #4056

However they don't need 666 GH/s per board.  Remember the completed substrate uses up to 4 dies.  When I asked for clarification on the MPP, HF indicated they have the ability to ship boards with only 1,2, or 3 dies active.   If they wanted to they could pawn off the junk boards which have one or more defective dies which they disable and ship those as the protection.

Given all the lies and deception so far, nothing would surprise me at this point.

I think this is the comment you are referring to...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270384.msg3553913#msg3553913

MrTeal
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December 13, 2013, 05:02:57 PM
 #4057

because they used Seasonic power supplies, which is the OEM builder of the Corsair PSUs that I had connected to the KnC that died and it was the Platinum rated PSUs as well.  When I said that he was saying that it was most likely that I may have used a PSU that was not superior to theirs but when I said that Seasonic BUILDS the Corsair PSUs he did not even know that was the case

SeaSonic doesn't build all of Corsair's PSU.  It also changes from year to year.  The only way to know for sure is to lookup the UL code or look for SeaSonic mark on the transformer (requires opening the PSU). 
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/How-to-Discover-Your-Power-Supplys-Real-Manufacturer/370/3

If you want SeaSonic quality buy a SeaSonic.

That is a very handy site, and I rather enjoy how JonnyGuru does their reviews.
I also use this PSU Review database. It gives a rundown of all the models that a manufacturer like Corsair sells, showing things like the OEM, rail configuration, 80+ rating and a list of reviews.

The only other list I'd really like to see is power supplies grouped by platform, say the FSP Aurum platform would show the Aurum PSUs, the eVGA NEX750G, etc. That would be very handy.
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December 13, 2013, 05:11:58 PM
 #4058

That is a nice resource and it illustrates how companies like Corsair are continually changing their lineup.  Today of the non-discontinued models in the HX and AX series Corsair PSU only the AX-760 and AX-860 are made by SeaSonic.

100% of SeaSonic PSU are made by SeaSonic. Smiley  Given the negligible price differences (especially compared to multi-thousand dollar rigs) just buy "the real deal".
RHA
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December 13, 2013, 06:05:22 PM
 #4059

The spill? They could carefully pour a water to form the spill each morning, to have an excuse why the machine is not working. Wink

However they forgot it made people think "if I order from them, will I get it in similar state?".
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December 13, 2013, 06:22:04 PM
 #4060

leaks are one of the potential problem with watercooled systems. I guess it's fortunate that their demo unit leaked in shipping, since it will increase the visibility of the risk of the problem for them.

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