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Author Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s  (Read 875470 times)
amer
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December 19, 2013, 05:01:35 AM
 #4501

Well that settles that. They clearly stated that the guaranteed delivery date was 12/31.

I'm not sure that the posted image qualifies as "clearly stating". It's actually the opposite - there are two delivery dates with a 2 month delta almost next to each other. I'd call that ambigious or unclear.

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ninjarobot
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December 19, 2013, 05:25:50 AM
 #4502

Note that while I'm writing software for them I'm just a contractor so I have no direct allegiance with them, so I'm trying to sift through all this information and I want to know if anyone has kept a copy, screenshot or whatever, to show that they promised to deliver by October 30th? I certainly remember it being implied when I first looked but wasn't really watching early on to see what was being advertised.

Hi Con!

Thank you for all the work you're doing to ensure cgminer works flawlessly with HashFast ASICs.

Per our ToS, Dec 31 is the guaranteed delivery date for Batch One.

Best,

-HF_CL

That might be your ToS, but this one is mine: http://pastebin.com/EfS9vmRf

This is the announcement post on bitcoin talk: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270384.0

This is a screenshot of the product page at the time of my order: http://i.imgur.com/DDessZJ.png

This is my order confirmation: http://i.imgur.com/mHjIYzy.png

There was no ambiguity in the published statement "Shipments begin October 20-30"

The original ToS did contain the following paragraph:

Quote
Except for delivery dates explicitly guaranteed in the order confirmation, delivery dates communicated or acknowledged by Hashfast are approximate only, and Hashfast shall not be liable for, nor shall Hashfast be in breach of its obligations to Buyer because of any delivery made within a reasonable time before or after the stated delivery date.

However a 'guaranteed delivery' date was not present, leaving it open to interpretation as to what 'reasonable time' means in the context of mining hardware purchases. 7 days after my purchase I received a 2nd 'order confirmation' by email with updated boilerplate:

Quote
Your order is expected to ship between October 20 and October 30, 2013.  Physical delivery of your order will take place within days, depending on the shipment method selected.  HashFast guarantees that all "Baby Jet" units from our first production batch will be delivered by December 31, 2013.  If Buyer ordered one or more Baby Jet units, and HashFast does not deliver such units by that date, then Buyer may at his or her discretion, cancel the undelivered portion and HashFast will issue a full refund the payment for the units that Buyer purchased but did not receive and cancelled.   This cancellation and refund is Buyer's sole and exclusive remedy for HashFast failing to deliver by the December 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date.  Buyer must cancel the order and request a refund by January 15, 2014 to avail him or herself of this remedy. Buyer to pay all taxes, duties and shipping costs on units delivered.

Also they had updated their ToS by that date (Aug 15) to include the guaranteed date (However they kept the revision the same at '1.B – Revised August 8, 2013', and now appear to have dropped revision number all together in their ToS so it is hard to know which one you are bound to unless you save a copy at the date of the sale).
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December 19, 2013, 05:47:01 AM
 #4503

^^your order ack is garbage in case off a refund. do you have a order ack with the BTC price first as I have?

EDIT: I cannot tell to much before the 31. Dec but main thing is the order ack and so one.
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December 19, 2013, 05:49:53 AM
 #4504

^^your order ack is garbage in case off a refund. do you have a order ack with the BTC price first as I have?

btc price is not relevant unless you paid thru bitpay, in which case you would have a receipt from bitpay too.

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December 19, 2013, 05:53:36 AM
 #4505

^^your order ack is garbage in case off a refund. do you have a order ack with the BTC price first as I have?

I ordered on Day 1. HashFast only accepted payment in Bitcoin though BitPay, there was no other option. (They did not accept USD or direct BTC until after their webstore broke). From the announcement post:

Quote
Payments to be made in BTC with the help of BitPay

A full refund is the return of exactly what I paid, in the currency I paid it in. BitPay allows the merchant to convert it to USD or keep it in BTC. What HF does with it after the transaction is up to them and does not concern me. We are customers. Not investors or backers.
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December 19, 2013, 06:10:07 AM
 #4506

then our lawyer has two customer groups to represent. the group w/ a order ack w/ a BTC price an the group w/ a order ack w/o a BTC price.

EDIT: will get in contact with Bryan Reyhani to see if he is willing to represent us.
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December 19, 2013, 06:20:57 AM
 #4507

^^your order ack is garbage in case off a refund. do you have a order ack with the BTC price first as I have?

I ordered on Day 1. HashFast only accepted payment in Bitcoin though BitPay, there was no other option. (They did not accept USD or direct BTC until after their webstore broke). From the announcement post:

Quote
Payments to be made in BTC with the help of BitPay

A full refund is the return of exactly what I paid, in the currency I paid it in. BitPay allows the merchant to convert it to USD or keep it in BTC. What HF does with it after the transaction is up to them and does not concern me. We are customers. Not investors or backers.


AMEN!!  There are still some lost souls in this forum still wondering whether a refund shd be in USD, BTC (or perhaps even Mexican Pesos), overcomplicating their own existence with calculators in hand trying to figure out the average exchange rate, other crap and what not.
Finally someone gets it!!
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December 19, 2013, 06:50:33 AM
 #4508

then our lawyer has two customer groups to represent. the group w/ a order ack w/ a BTC price an the group w/ a order ack w/o a BTC price.

EDIT: will get in contact with Bryan Reyhani to see if he is willing to represent us.
It is likely that their resolution/compensation process will be as "agile" as their marketing. Don't sign anything without the permission of your lawyer. You may jump from the frying pan into the fire.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
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December 19, 2013, 06:57:34 AM
 #4509

then our lawyer has two customer groups to represent. the group w/ a order ack w/ a BTC price an the group w/ a order ack w/o a BTC price.

EDIT: will get in contact with Bryan Reyhani to see if he is willing to represent us.
It is likely that their resolution/compensation process will be as "agile" as their marketing. Don't sign anything without the permission of your lawyer. You may jump from the frying pan into the fire.

yes, thanks! we'll be aware of it! this whole discussion is public so I'm sure they are working on a escape plan for their self.
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December 19, 2013, 08:46:59 AM
 #4510

Well that settles that. They clearly stated that the guaranteed delivery date was 12/31.

This is HF's puppet. This puppet is still confident that they will deliver by the end of the year. I hope the puppet to be wrong.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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December 19, 2013, 08:55:59 AM
 #4511

Email reply from hashfast sales, 20th August 2013
would have been around the time of mock tapeout

Quote
Hi (aussiehash's first name),

We should be able to get our chip through the fab in 64 days, and we'll have another few days to create modules out of the chips.  They will then attach to the board via a socket.

Cheers,

--
HashFast Sales
sales@hashfast.com
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December 19, 2013, 09:01:14 AM
 #4512

Am i wrong or the current design doesn't have sockets to attack board/chips to anymore?

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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December 19, 2013, 09:26:36 AM
 #4513

Bitpay eh...well I for one paid 100% via BTC directly to a btc address that was given to me by one of HashFast's staff. I expect nothing but 100% unadulterated btc back Smiley The pressure is on....

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December 19, 2013, 12:14:13 PM
 #4514

HASHFAST ; to reach your goal, you lied to us, and you have to know  false advertising is punishable by law, everywhere in the world. let's see us in a court.
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December 19, 2013, 01:13:05 PM
 #4515

This is HF's puppet. This puppet is still confident that they will deliver by the end of the year. I hope the puppet to be wrong.

Puppet is rarely wrong Wink
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December 19, 2013, 02:22:37 PM
 #4516

So , If I'm getting it right , the most profitable way to mine is to sell your pickaxe!
Of , great !

For a limited time only I will share the secrets of my pickaxe revenue boosting system.  We all know that mining gold is getting harder and a pickaxe in January is probably only worth $3 per gigarock.  Honestly it is probably worth less than that but gold miners have gold fever and you can find enough people willing to pay $3 per gigarock in January.  Still is it your fault that you can't delivery until January and thus are limited to only $3 per GH/s (probably 1000% gross markup)?  Now some honest suckers might say "sorry you are going to have to live with "only" $10M in gross revenue for a couple months work".  You know what I say .... that is stupid honest sucker talk.  Don't listen to it for a second.  I am going to show you how you can double the $10M into $20M without delivering more or earlier.  Just free bonus money.

See the first thing you do is promise to deliver the pickaxes in October and mark them up from $3 per gigarock to a much more profitable $14 per gigarock.  Now you might be confused because you already know your pickaxes won't be ready until January so how can you promise October delivery?  It is what we in the creative pickaxing business call "telling your customers what they want to hear to get the moneyz", I have heard that honest suckers might call it lying, or fraud but I wouldn't know. Now this plan isn't for everyone, if you are looking for an honest profit where both you and your customers benefit then you should probably stop reading because this plan isn't for you.  Also if you are in that category want to buy some cheap pickaxes?  

Ok are all the honest suckers gone now?  Good now lets get down to business.  So instead of selling pickaxes in January for $3 per gigarock the revenue boosting secret is to pretend you will have them in Oct and offer them for $14 per gigarock.  We will "limit" this to half a million pickaxes.  We want to make it seem limited.  Nobody want to pay a premium and be at the end of the line.  Now if you get lucky some large group like IcePicking ("always bet on Ice") will do a lot of the work for you and buy about half of those early pickaxes.  Now just sell the other half retail.  Now some of those customers might be cautious so if sales are slow then give away some of the pickaxes for free as "protection".  Hang on trust me it will be worth it, these "free" pickaxes aren't going to make us a fortune at the expense of the customers who trust us.   See if the customers don't trust us they won't buy regardless but if they trust us but are worried about difficulty then the free pickaxes will seal the deal. So reserve 800K pickaxes for the PPP (Pickaxe Protection Plan).

Now you should know that after all this plays out as you know it will, your rep is ruined, so lets double down.   Your customers might not know you can't deliver on time but you do so don't hold anything back. You might as well offer "Dec" pickaxes you can't deliver either!  I mean if you are going to defraud one batch of customers why not defraud two for twice the profit and twice the fun?  So sell off the rest of your January pickaxes as "December" pickaxes and offer a deal of only $8 per gigarock (for a $3 per gigarock pickaxe).  See it is a "deal" it isn't as horribly bad as the first batch?  

Now stop a second and just think about the beauty of it.  We only have one box of January pickaxes.  That is it, yet with some creative pickaxing we have now sold two batches at different price points.   Some customers probably agonized over which was the better deal and they are all coming out of the same box!  ROFL! I mean all we have are January pickaxes, some just have an Oct sticker and some have a Dec sticker.  Smiley   See who says you can have fun making millions?

So lets punch this into the ole pickaxe calculator. The honest promise and delivery in January at a reasonable price nets us $10 million in revenue, but with some creative pickaxing we can still ship the same number of pickaxes at the same time but DOUBLE OUR REVENUE! Don't believe me?  Here is the creative math.  Honest (sucker) January delivery: 3.3 million pickaxes @ $3 per gigarock = ~$10M.  Creative Pickaxe Super Sales System:  0.5 million (promised for Oct) * $14 + 0.8 million * $0 (protection plan promised when we feel like it) + 2 million * $8 ("cheaper" batch 2 promised for Dec) = ~$20 million.

Both methods sell out our 3.3 million pickaxes.
Both methods don't ship until January (or maybe a few days prior).
The creative one makes twice as much money.

Now do you see the magic of creative pickaxing?   Well the bad news is if you want to get technical there is no such thing as something for nothing; this is just a wealth transfer from your customers to you under false pretenses (lawyers might call that fraud).  They never had a chance at getting units before January so $10M extra for "early" delivery is just a $10M reduction in net profit.  With mining margins as tight as they are that will be enough to push them into the red.  See they are paying $20M for pickaxes which really are only worth $10M because ... and this is the funny part ... they actually believed you when you said Oct and Dec delivery.   What a bunch of suckers.  

Of course the only downside is you have to deal with "whiners" who get mad when their Oct & Dec pickaxes doesn't arrive until January. You can't really blame them I mean the high priced pickaxes only make economical sense for the easier Oct rocks.  $14 axe in Oct = profit.  $3 axe in Janaury = profit.  $14 axe in January = profit (well profit for us and massive losses for them).  That is why the Pickaxes were only worth $3 per gigarock in January, but if we had sold them as January pickaxes we would have only made $3 per gigarock and that just isn't fair.  It isn't fair other companies were faster and thus were able to charge more.  I mean $10M with 1000% gross markup how many yachts can you buy with that.  The funniest part is many of your victims did the math and made all the right calculations.  They never would have paid $14 per gigarock for a January pickaxes because they KNEW it would be a loss.   Still with the ole switcheroo you can trick them to.  They have now absolutely no hope of even breaking even.  If you start to feel bad about all the loses your customers are taking and the fact that it was completely avoidable by being honest (and accepting a fair price for a fair product), just buy another sports car, or snort some more premium blow off an expensive hooker. Nobody said creative pickaxing was going to be easy, but a "bonus" $10M should help your guilty conscience.
and yes... you're right cedivad , this is a fantastic post Wink
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December 19, 2013, 04:30:21 PM
 #4517

"Uniquify and HashFast Announce Working Silicon for Bitcoin Mining Chip at TSMC 28HPM Process Node
Golden Nonce Silicon Wafers Complete TSMC Fabrication, Exceed Performance Targets
Marketwired. Uniquify 25 minutes ago"

Link: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/uniquify-hashfast-announce-working-silicon-160000124.html

Interesting how the last paragraph talks about how important it is for speed to market.
"Time to market is critical in the fast emerging bitcoin mining market," remarks Josh Lee, founder and CEO of Uniquify.
cedivad
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December 19, 2013, 05:23:12 PM
 #4518

Is that a way to tell your customers that the "silicon" works without actually showing even a screenshoot of cgminer? My guess is that puppet this time might be wrong (and i would start adulating you in that case, puppet).

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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December 19, 2013, 07:11:56 PM
 #4519

After reading that post from deathandtaxes s/he has become my favorite person on this forum.  Smiley

On a side note i sent hasfast this email yesterday but im sure it will be ignored like the other 10 I've sent them.

Quote
Dear Hasfast,

If hasfast hasn't shipped my order by business close tomorrow it will not be possible to meet the December 31st deadline for delivery.

Due to the xmas holidays, closure of Australian customs,Canadian customs closure, mail congestion, i dont think its even possible with express worldwide shipping.

So since Hasfash will break your own ToS, i again wish for a refund the original amount i paid of 45 btc.
I WILL NOT accept the delivery of any unit past the 31st Deadline with out compensation.

Personally im disgusted in Hasfast, its companies like Hashfast and BFL that gives Bitcoin a bad name.
How can you expect people to universally adopt bitcoin when companies like yours lie and cheat, holding peoples money hostage breaking US laws.


just for reference even know i wasn't a day 1 order. i did place the order before this December 31st crap.
here is a quote from USA.gov FTC (Federal Trade Commission) rules

Quote
When you order something by mail, phone, fax or computer, the Federal Trade Commission requires the company to:

    Ship the merchandise within the time promised, or if no specific delivery time was stated, within 30 days of receiving your order.
    Notify you if the shipment cannot be made on time and give you the choice of waiting longer or getting a refund.
    Cancel your order and return your payment if the new shipping date cannot be met, unless you agree to another delay.

If you cancel, your money must be refunded within 7 days (or your account must be credited within one billing cycle if you charged the order). The company can't substitute a credit for other merchandise. If you applied for a charge account with the merchant at the same time that you placed your order, the company has an extra 20 days to ship the merchandise to allow time for processing your application.

How many of those rules did Hasfast break  Angry

MT GOX, WE.exchange (WE.Scam), BFL (Brutally Fkn Last), Hashfast (ScamFast), IceDrill (Licedrill),
No wonder the governments don't like Bitcoin with all these parasites
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December 19, 2013, 08:03:47 PM
 #4520

yup on these points , they're going to loose. 
and ... listen their silence at this critical time! (for them)
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