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Author Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s  (Read 875200 times)
defcon23
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December 14, 2013, 07:16:44 AM

HashFast's chips are about 3 times more powerful when compared on a GH per sq.mm basis.

HashFast is shipping with top-shelf quality Sea Sonic PSUs, so our customers won't have to put up with exploding/self-immolating units like KNC's did.

In addition, HashFast lined up an exclusive with CIARA, which means HashFast machines will be assembled and shipped with utmost expediency (no random guys helping load some random van), in professional/durable packaging.

That means double-walled boxes, so HashFast customers' hardware won't arrive broken like so much of KNC's did.

Finally, (again unlike KNC) HashFast has been working closely with ckolivas for a long time to ensure cgminer works flawlessly with our innovative new GN Protocol, Global Work Queue, etc.

After 70 days mining every one of my batch #1 Jupiters have mined aprox. 50 BTC each - let's see how many BTC will your batch #1 units mine in their first 70 days of life.

That (BTC MINED/DAY) is the only thing that matters right now. Power costs are so ridiculously marginal at this stage that bragging about efficiency is just ludicrous.

I'm glad you are satisfied with your past ROI, but don't see the use or validity of comparing it to future returns.

In fact, the hash power which earned you that nice ROI in the past is exactly why future ROIs will be lower!

You could go all the way back to Gen One Avalons if you really want to highlight the past vs future contrast.

HashFast cannot control difficulty, nor make investment/speculation/gambling decisions for its customers.

We can however learn from KNC and others' mistakes, and control our choices of flawless cgminer support, high-quality Sea Sonic PSUs, world-class CIARA assembly, and professional logistics which includes packaging adequate to prevent damage in shipping.

Judging by the uproar in the KnC thread(s) over these issues, they do matter to many customers.

Best,

-HF_CL
knc dont made mistake , they just deliver when they promised to deliver... shame on you Hashfast
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SolarSilver
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December 14, 2013, 07:37:43 AM

Why is this lost on the HashFast Representative?

Because from this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270384.msg3956671#msg3956671 you can clearly see that he/she is not the sharpest tool in the shed:

Quote
As a Batch One customer, I fully understand the anxiety and frustration of watching my BTC ROI dwindle as difficulty rises.

Of course ROI in fiat is an entirely different story and a source of much consolation.

Is the printer already fixed? (scroll back to see that gem)
SolarSilver
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December 14, 2013, 07:44:48 AM

In addition, HashFast lined up an exclusive with CIARA, which means HashFast machines will be assembled and shipped with utmost expediency (no random guys helping load some random van), in professional/durable packaging.

That means double-walled boxes, so HashFast customers' hardware won't arrive broken like so much of KNC's did.

So you are not going to have water cooling liquid leaking from boxes when they arrive after UPS abuses the boxes, just like the demo unit at the Vegas show, that could not even survive a simple plane trip?

Quote
Finally, (again unlike KNC) HashFast has been working closely with ckolivas for a long time to ensure cgminer works flawlessly with our innovative new GN Protocol, Global Work Queue, etc.

Here you are right, the handling of the software support by working with the cgminer developers is a good thing. At least something to credit HF for.
Xian01
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December 14, 2013, 07:55:57 AM

KnC shipped hardware, and we have benefited by learning from their mistakes.

 If you benefited by learning from their mistakes, why have you failed to ship your first offering when they are presently working on their second ?

 I do need to concur with others in this thread; Your hubris and attitude is beginning to mimic a certain COO we regard poorly.
stompix
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December 14, 2013, 08:03:30 AM

KnC shipped hardware, and we have benefited by learning from their mistakes.

 If you benefited by learning from their mistakes, why have you failed to ship your first offering when they are presently working on their second ?

 I do need to concur with others in this thread; Your hubris and attitude is beginning to mimic a certain COO we regard poorly.


I have the impression they think KnC made a mistake by really shipping products.

testerx
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December 14, 2013, 09:00:24 AM

HashFast does have a single chip running (underclocked) at 500GH, which is an impressive feat.
That's great that it's underclocked but uhh...isn't it also hitting 300watts per two cores...or 600 watts per 4-core chip right now?  If that's the power draw underclocked (1.2 watts per GH) what's the power use going to be clocked up?

RoadStress
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December 14, 2013, 09:07:57 AM

HashFast does have a single chip running (underclocked) at 500GH, which is an impressive feat.
That's great that it's underclocked but uhh...isn't it also hitting 300watts per two cores...or 600 watts per 4-core chip right now?  If that's the power draw underclocked (1.2 watts per GH) what's the power use going to be clocked up?

Still no proof of the single chip running underclocked at 500GH. HashFast_CL you promissed me a blog post with an actual video. Where is it?

iCEBREAKER is a troll! He and cypherdoc helped HashFast scam 50 Million $ from its customers !
H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.0
monsieur
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December 14, 2013, 09:30:21 AM

I'd like to clarify that 50 btcs mined per Jupiter as someone mentioned here is more of an exception applicable to select few. I received my Saturn (1/2 of Jupiter) around 20th of October (and I was pretty far from last in the queue). If I didn't spend some btcs on upgrade modules I would've made just about 16 btcs by now.
cedivad
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December 14, 2013, 09:40:07 AM

HF_CL must be a complete idiot.

He thinks that he can calm down the community this way, but the only thing he does is to give the community even more reasons to be afraid of the future. With this rise on the bitcoin price, and with this many customers that ordered several machines, it will be awesome to see how this evolves.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
aneutronic
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December 14, 2013, 10:09:17 AM

Can you believe that i went to this page before writing it and yet i got it wrong? http://web.ku.edu/~edit/lie.html
I guess that this time i will just use google translate. Thanks.

@Jutarul, while i understand and i agree completely with you (i'm just waiting for them to see when they ship the MPP to decide whenever or not i should pay the 20k retainer), i think that while HF should be less talky talky and more shippy shippy, we customers should be less talky talky and more "sue" sue-tty them.

If we don't do that, well, why should they even bother? They got it completely right, the results they got from studying BFL was perfect.

Save your money, these guys will do it on contingency.

http://www.bergermontague.com/practice-areas/consumer-protection

Berger & Montague's Consumer Protection Group protects consumers when they are injured by false or misleading advertising, defective products, data privacy breaches, and various other unfair trade practices.

Consumers too often suffer the brunt of corporate wrongdoing, particularly in the area of false or misleading advertising, defective products, and data or privacy breaches. Using class action litigation, consumers can employ economies of scale to confront corporate wrongdoing and obtain a remedy for all those who were harmed. Berger & Montague has successfully obtained many multi-million-dollar consumer class action settlements. View our  Representative Settlements for examples of large recoveries we obtained on behalf of our consumer clients.

No Fees Without Recovery

Berger & Montague's consumer class action cases are typically litigated on a contingent fee basis, so plaintiffs and the class do not pay attorneys' fees or court costs unless there is a recovery.
cedivad
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December 14, 2013, 10:47:07 AM

This is so much fun. So the contract says that they can't have any class action against them? Am i reading it correctly? This is really so much fun...
To bad that there are at least 10 customers out there that will happily go on by their own, even if that point had anything legal in it...

Can we sue them for putting illegal points on their terms of sales terms and conditions of sales, too?

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
aneutronic
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December 14, 2013, 10:53:29 AM


Not sure if this is legal. But...

https://hashfast.com/checkout/terms-of-sale/

Quote
(e)     NEITHER BUYER NOR HASHFAST SHALL BE ENTITLED TO JOIN OR CONSOLIDATE CLAIMS BY OR AGAINST OTHER BUYERS, OR ARBITRATE OR OTHERWISE PARTICIPATE IN ANY CLAIM AS A CLASS REPRESENTATIVE, CLASS MEMBER OR IN A PRIVATE ATTORNEY GENERAL CAPACITY. If any provision of this arbitration agreement is found unenforceable, the unenforceable provision shall be severed and the remaining arbitration terms shall be enforced (but in no case shall there be a class arbitration).

*shrugs*

Doubtful, let the lawyers figure it out, that's what they get paid for.
cedivad
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December 14, 2013, 11:08:11 AM

That's also true.

So what's the goal of that point in the contract, apart from scaring possible customers from participating in a class action against them and finally have them to be even more angry at you?

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
defcon23
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December 14, 2013, 11:34:04 AM

KnC shipped hardware, and we have benefited by learning from their mistakes.

 If you benefited by learning from their mistakes, why have you failed to ship your first offering when they are presently working on their second ?

 I do need to concur with others in this thread; Your hubris and attitude is beginning to mimic a certain COO we regard poorly.
+1
cedivad
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December 14, 2013, 12:39:27 PM

Yes, i also think that contract to be our best and easiest way to definitively prove their intentions.
Personally, i think that it will be really easy to have a judge to force them to so, i mean, what's the problem with sharing the delivery date TSMC promised on the contract if they have nothing to hide?
I can't see anyone in good faith denying you to do so, especially after all of the BS they told us that we can prove.

I mean, they have lost even before starting.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
jspielberg
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December 14, 2013, 12:40:53 PM

That's also true.

So what's the goal of that point in the contract, apart from scaring possible customers from participating in a class action against them and finally have them to be even more angry at you?

What I'm more curious about is if a court can force them to disclose their contract with the fab. If the contract says the chips wouldn't be produced until after october it's game over for them.

You would need the entire supply chain... chip would be a good start, but substrate manufacturer, assembly house.

I think I have gone through denial, anger, bargaining, and depression and I feel I am now in acceptance.  We aren't going to make our BTC back.

If they deliver quickly and deliver the full MPP 90 days after October 30th, and difficulty enters a linear phase at 100,000,000 daily increment rather than exponential, we could make back a bit better than 70% over the course of a year.

At least according to my model:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Auya3iRE6az1dDc0UVgwMU52YVpTazVjSHByOGNiWHc&usp=sharing

Obviously a lot of assumptions.  The exponential difficulty growth may last longer than the 100M daily difficulty rise... HF may be late on the Feb.1 MPPs.  The longer they delay shipping initial and MPP, the worse the numbers get.

cedivad
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December 14, 2013, 12:48:58 PM

@jspielberg, if they didn't do everything necessary to have every single component needed by november at the latest, they have lost.

Remeber that the PCB was designed and manufactured and they where gonna send us pictures of it in a few days (back in middle OCTOBER), but that moment never come due to... NDA contracts whose contracts where covered by a NDA as well? It's freking ridiculous, and it's oblivious that this is an incredible starting point for us.

If we are not gonna get every single BTC that we paid back, we are __all__ gonna use __fractions__ of the revenues to pay for first class lawyers to rip them off.

Worst case scenario? We will own the IP of the chip and it will be the first open source RTL (maybe we could just organise group buys directly to the FAB, where every detail is public and we get a % to recover our losses).

What makes me wonder the most about HF? Their stupidity about continuously releasing proofs to use against them. I mean, there must be a reason for that. They must be really self confident. (and that must be john, but don't worry john, we will fix that).

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
Puppet
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December 14, 2013, 12:53:01 PM

Worst case scenario? We will own the IP of the chip and it will be the first open source RTL

Im pretty sure the contract with TSMC will make that impossible.
cedivad
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December 14, 2013, 12:55:15 PM

Im pretty sure the contract with TSMC will make that impossible.
Ok, then we will organise group buys at costs from TSMC after that we have taken away a little % to recover our HF losses...
Would you mind to expand your answer? Thanks.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
jspielberg
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December 14, 2013, 01:01:34 PM

@jspielberg, if they didn't do everything necessary to every every single component needed by november at the latest, they have lost.

Remeber that the PCB was designed and manufactured and they where gonna send us pictures of it in a few days (back in middle OCTOBER), but that moment never come due to... NDA contracts whose contracts where covered by a NDA as well? It's freking ridiculous, and it's oblivious that this is an incredible starting point for us.

If we are not gonna get every single BTC that we paid back, we are __all__ gonna use __fractions__ of the revenues to pay for first class lawyers to rip them off.

Worst case scenario? We will own the IP of the chip and it will be the first open source RTL (maybe we could just organise group buys directly to the FAB, where every detail is public and we get a % to recover our losses).

Worst case scenarios (from worst to least worst):
1) They don't ship at all and close shop selling their IP to stakeholders with a real legal contract on assets
2) They refund in USD at current exchange rate (locking in a 90% loss)
3) They ship initial B1s before deadline but are very late on MPP (>50% loss?)
4) They ship initial B1s before deadline but get MPP out end of Jan. (~30% loss)
5) They miss their initial shipment date and refund the original currency at original rate (0% loss)

Kind of sad that the best case scenario is just that they refund all of B1 (at original exchange rate) and just make B2 the new first batch... everybody wins.
I would not be happy with scenario 4, but I am an adult and can take some lumps that would come along with it.  Pitchforks and lawyers would probably come out with anything worse than 4.

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