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Author Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s  (Read 864235 times)
DPoS
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December 15, 2013, 08:54:59 PM
 #4241

BJ upgrade price gone up to 1900.00 usd today?

Looks like it. Probably because they realized their pricing scheme made no sense. The BJ with upgrade was cheaper per GH than the Sierra.

They're a bunch of baffoooooonss

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December 15, 2013, 09:21:08 PM
 #4242

I just realized this, 6pin PCI-e connectors are only rated for 75W, and you could probably get MAX 200W out of them.
In this blog post: https://hashfast.com/second-tests/ HF says the power consumption for just 2 dies is 300W. Maybe this is why they haven't said anything about running all 4 dies. They are probably running into limitations on how much power they can push through those 2 connectors.
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December 15, 2013, 09:43:59 PM
 #4243

They have got two dies to achieve 250 GH/s using 300 W.
It seems their PR simply multiplied the speed by two to make great announcement but forgot to think about power requirements.
Now the technicians are still trying to find a way to supply 600 W (for which two PCI-e could be enough, yet near the limit, depending on the PSU used)
and dissipate it (which can be quite hard as the cooling system is, as I remember, projected for less power),
and the chip has to withstand all this power going through it.
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December 15, 2013, 09:46:18 PM
 #4244

There are 2 pcie connectors on the pcb on each side, look at the pics of the board from earlier in this thread.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg3929934#msg3929934

Warning about Nitrogensports.eu
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=709114.0
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December 15, 2013, 10:14:02 PM
 #4245

There are 2 pcie connectors on the pcb on each side, look at the pics of the board from earlier in this thread.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg3929934#msg3929934
2 connectors at 75W each is still only 150W. In order to run all 4 dies (600W) they would need to put 4x the rated current through those connectors.
They are using CoolIT CPU coolers to cool this thing off. CPU's use at most 130W. They are going to need to dissipate 4-5x as much energy as the coolers were designed for. The blog post says the 2 dies are running at 78 degrees, add another 2 and they'll be running way hotter.
I have the feeling that these things are going to fail pretty quickly unless they tone down the power usage.
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December 15, 2013, 10:19:20 PM
 #4246

It doesn't mean much at this point. Not enough information to make any conclusion. Wait until they get all 4 dies up and running as intended. Tick tock, halfway through December already..

Warning about Nitrogensports.eu
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December 15, 2013, 10:23:12 PM
 #4247

Hopefully they will provide a substantive update shortly.  Seems like they are preferring twitter (which seems like a good tactical move considering the animosity towards them here).

When there are no updates with good news ( or even updates with problems they are trying to overcome), it appears that either they don't care, or they aren't doing anything.  Both of which we know can't be the case (or at least not what they are trying to communicate).

The troops are getting restless again....

... or maybe they don't work on weekends Smiley

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December 15, 2013, 10:24:15 PM
 #4248


i seriously think they dont work on sundays.
minternj
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December 15, 2013, 10:27:34 PM
 #4249

Well the way that hashfast_cl has been posting in here, you'd think they are pretty much done. But yes i also think they took the weekend off, probably because their pcb assembly house Sonic manufacturing doesnt work weekends. I think the Australia team is out surfing or hunting great whites too.

Warning about Nitrogensports.eu
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=709114.0
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December 15, 2013, 10:29:23 PM
 #4250

Again: PCI-e connector CAN supply 300 W.
6-pin version is rated 75 W, but 8-pin version is rated quite higher.
Additional two pins (both are ground) are used not for supply, but to let the receiver (usually a graphic card) to recognize if this PCI-e connector is able to supply more. Still they don't need to be connected.

Worse thing is with cooling. Let's read HF's own announcement: https://hashfast.com/baby-jet-thermal-testing/
Quote
Baby Jet thermal testing

    Posted on September 23, 2013
    by Simon Barber   
    in Baby Jet, Development, Rig Assembly   

Our liquid cooling solution supplier has the results from some real world testing of the solution we will be using in the Baby Jet. The HashFast GN ASIC was designed around a nominal operating point of 400GH/s, which it achieves consuming 250W at the chip. Due to manufacturing variations in the silicon some chips will consume slightly more, and others less. We chose this 250W operating point because that is what overclocked CPUs are routinely run at, so we knew common off the shelf cooling solutions would be able to handle this. We asked our cooling solution provider to do some thermal simulations of the system, and they confirmed that it should be able to handle 350W of heat. We have now got the results from a real system test. Using the exact final chassis that the Baby Jet is using, together with the final cooling solution. A small heating element, the same size as our chip was ordered, and attached to the cooler. The experimental results showed that the chip’s case temperature could be maintained at an acceptable level while the cooler dissipates 400W of heat. This means that our chip should have a *lot* of room for overclocking above it’s nominal 400GH/s.
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December 15, 2013, 10:51:40 PM
 #4251


i seriously think they dont work on sundays.

Sucker webmaster is working on sundays, while sluggish engineers don't.

iCEBREAKER is a troll! He and cypherdoc helped HashFast scam 50 Million $ from its customers !
H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.0
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December 15, 2013, 11:06:24 PM
 #4252

On the power & cooling.   This won't be the first time in the first thread I have had to point out that a rig using X watts at the wall doesn't mean the chip is using X watts (and the chip is the only thing attached to the radiator).

Say chip uses 400W @ ~1V.  No ATX PSU has a 1V output so the board needs to convert the 12V from PSU to the voltage used by the chip.  If the VRMs are 88% efficient then to supply 400W to the chip @ ~1VDC would require 454W @ 12VDC.  Now add to that 2 radiator fans + intake fan + water pump + host/controller for another ~50W so in this scenario rig uses ~500W @ 12VDC.  Now the ATX PSU which converts 120/240 VAC to 12VDC is only ~90% efficient so 490W @ 12VDC = ~550W to 560W @ 120VAC.
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December 15, 2013, 11:23:32 PM
 #4253

I just realized this, 6pin PCI-e connectors are only rated for 75W, and you could probably get MAX 200W out of them.

The PCIe graphic card standard (which has nothing to do w/ ASICs) limits power to 75W on 6 pin connector and 150W on 8 pin connector (using no more power pins) however those are artificial limitations.   The actual connector is good for 9A per pin, 3 power pins (both of 6 & 8 pin connector), 12 V means 324W (9*3*12) per connector max or 648W for a pair.  

Now how much power a particular PSU can push to the connector is another question.  The VRMs on the board also have a max current limit so the chip can only be provided so much power but the connector is a total non-issue.
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December 15, 2013, 11:49:40 PM
 #4254

I just realized this, 6pin PCI-e connectors are only rated for 75W, and you could probably get MAX 200W out of them.

The PCIe graphic card standard (which has nothing to do w/ ASICs) limits power to 75W on 6 pin connector and 150W on 8 pin connector (using no more power pins) however those are artificial limitations.   The actual connector is good for 9A per pin, 3 power pins (both of 6 & 8 pin connector), 12 V means 324W (9*3*12) per connector max or 648W for a pair.  

Now how much power a particular PSU can push to the connector is another question.  The VRMs on the board also have a max current limit so the chip can only be provided so much power but the connector is a total non-issue.


Now can you please provide data for the maximum 24/7 safe current per 18AWG wire.
My own research led me to believe it is much lower than 9A.

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December 15, 2013, 11:51:53 PM
 #4255

i seriously think they dont work on sundays.

+1
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December 16, 2013, 12:10:25 AM
 #4256

Now can you please provide data for the maximum 24/7 safe current per 18AWG wire.
My own research led me to believe it is much lower than 9A.

It depends on the length of the wire, and the acceptable voltage drop.

At 3 ft circuit legnth, 18 AWG is good for 9A with a 2.83% voltage drop.  As for safe, at 2.83% voltage drop that would only 1.5W dissipated as heat.  Still the point was somewhat academic I doubt HF will be pushing anywhere close to that much current but if they did the limiting factor wouldn't be the artificial PCIe graphics standard for 6 and 8 pin connectors.
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December 16, 2013, 12:19:19 AM
 #4257


That should be deliver "deadline *".  The "deadline" (until they decide to retroactively change it after the fact) is based on delivery date not shipping date.  

* Of course the deadline for pre Aug 15th orders has long since passed, the company however has fraudulently decided to steal customers funds by not providing refund in violation of their own pre Aug 15th TOS.

Correct. Delivery. Not shipping BS. I have a copy of their TOS and archive version in case they decide to lie and screw people. They should be serious about their TOS.
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December 16, 2013, 12:28:41 AM
 #4258

Irony, it now seems you all are seemingly disappointed IF you recieve your miner BEFORE New Years....

Don't the Terms of Agreement/Service state you have to notify HashFast with some letter that you have not recieved your order "within a reasonable period of time"?

If you don't receive your unit by 11:59:59 PM on Dec 31st, HF, shipping carriers and the world has a proof record of non-delivery by that time. Then you can immediately send your letter since you necessarily needed to wait until that time in case you want a refund. Some people might be totally ok receiving unit later. It's up to people to individually make that refund choice if they are entitled to it, not a forced refund on people.
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December 16, 2013, 12:35:44 AM
 #4259

However filling that letter will almost certainly be equivalent to deciding to proceed legally against HF, because i can't find any scenario where they will decide to refund the BTC we paid even if they failed to ship.

And yet, thinking that HF will fail to ship by the end of the year is daydreaming.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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December 16, 2013, 03:22:48 AM
 #4260

So... Does anyone have experience with water based coolers like those that are being used?

Are they loud?  Do you guys think they will be as loud as the avalon's?
I am currently very happy with my fanless bitfury setup.

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