[1050 TH] BitMinter.com [1% PPLNS,Pays TxFees +MergedMining,Stratum,GBT,vardiff]

[christhegoth]

Yo Doc!

https://bitminter.com/stats/rewards

Seeing as Bitminter is having an unlucky spell I think you need to do this ( obviously correct me if my understanding is wrong ):


At present you find blocks and then pass them to the Bitminter Network to be chewed through.  You also collect payment and distribute that to your network based on who has done what.

So you're sitting at the top of a big pyramid of processing power, and you have to find the blocks yourself.

Just like a modern 1PH/s datacenter in many a way.  So...


You need to set things up so that should you have no luck with the Blocks you can piggy-back Bitminter onto another Pool as a 'datacenter'.  To keep Bitminter in the game you need to be able to take advantage of other people's luck as well as enjoy it when your own comes in.  These bad-luck spells can really harm a small pool like us.

If I was you I'd have another 3 pools on the standby for this 'datacenter mode' option.  Like Eligius, GHash.io, and some other.

Like driving a car if the lane you're in is stuffed getting into a faster lane can get the job done.  At present the Bitminter mini-bus is in the naff lane.  Can you steer us onto a better lane temporarily?

This pool is small enough to be able to do this in theory.  Jump from work-source to work-source to get the best deal for those in the pool.


Datacenter managers have to make this decision a lot.  Which pool to latch onto, or should they mine for themselves?  Luck is the clincher here.  And if Bitminter can't provide and GHash can it makes sense for you to piggy-back GHash for a bit until your luck improves again.  It's better that then watch 3 years of hard work go down the loo if you see what I mean.


I like Bitminter best ( the GUI and Support are VERY high quality ) , but I have bills to pay as well sadly.



Anyone else have an opinion?

[john_thecapn]

I would have to agree here.  It does seem that the pool's luck is spotty at best.
2 days to make a block (sometimes) are seemingly way too long.
The payouts are decent, but the time between them are discouraging.

[christhegoth]

Indeed.  It's the gap between payments being too long that is the problem for me as well.  It may be a nice 0.14 a payment ( for me ), but if it's only once every 2 days I can't pay the electricity bill.  I need 1 per day minimum really to break even.  I don't want to leave, but I might have to if this drought continues.

There's lots of work sure, but if the work is always naff we're in trouble.

I hope the good Doctor can solve this one and steer us to better times.  Bitcoin price has gone up a little, but for us small miners it's just not easy when a dry patch happens.

[-ck]

Indeed.  It's the gap between payments being too long that is the problem for me as well.  It may be a nice 0.14 a payment ( for me ), but if it's only once every 2 days I can't pay the electricity bill.  I need 1 per day minimum really to break even.  I don't want to leave, but I might have to if this drought continues.

In this day and age where mining loses more money than you ever invest in the hardware, you should not really be mining if you need the rewards to pay your electricity bill so tightly coupled to one day's reward.

[DrHaribo]

Past luck doesn't affect future luck.

This is very important to understand. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy

You can't switch to a luckier pool, and switch back when luck returns. That's not how luck works.

There is no such thing as pool X having good luck right now. There is only: pool X had good luck the last few hours, but noone knows what luck they will have in the next hours.

If you can tell what luck someone is going to have in the future then by definition we are not talking about luck but something else.

I would have to agree here.  It does seem that the pool's luck is spotty at best.
2 days to make a block (sometimes) are seemingly way too long.
The payouts are decent, but the time between them are discouraging.

The last few days we had some bad luck. But the last month overall was lucky. You have to expect a few unlucky days. Not all days can be lucky. "I'm not lucky every day" does not mean the same as "I'm unlucky every day". Even if it may feel that way sometimes.

Yes, the payouts have been good, and that's probably the most important thing to a miner.

I understand it's frustrating when the unlucky blocks take a long time though. We'll need to increase the hashpower to make them pass faster.

[christhegoth]

Indeed.  It's the gap between payments being too long that is the problem for me as well.  It may be a nice 0.14 a payment ( for me ), but if it's only once every 2 days I can't pay the electricity bill.  I need 1 per day minimum really to break even.  I don't want to leave, but I might have to if this drought continues.

In this day and age where mining loses more money than you ever invest in the hardware, you should not really be mining if you need the rewards to pay your electricity bill so tightly coupled to one day's reward.

It's not that tight.  I can do a bad fortnight, and obviously just have; but...

2 bad months and what I have invested ( about $2000 dollars ) is gonna get painful.

You have to chase the luck in this game.  Not just sit there and do nothing.  The more experienced miners spread their mining across multiple pools ( rather than remaining loyal to just one all the time ).  But that would see Bitminter shrink, rather than grow, if we all started doing that.

If the good Doctor can steer this thing his project will stay stable.  It may even grow.  But bad luck is bad luck, and after a couple of months many people will walk.


As I said, if Datacenter managers have to make this call whilst running PH/s of kit then us small people will be in a similar boat.  It's about profit per unit at the end of the day, which is why you need to upgrade to stay in the game and earn a few quid.  I don't expect huge profits, but I can't run at a loss forever when other pools appear to be doing better ( as they are luckier at present ).

And last I read those Datacenters need to run at a profit ( to pay wages and pay for future upgrades ), so I'm afraid this is relevant.  No-one can run at a loss for a long time.

This lot did not choose to go bankrupt.  They didn't volunteer to lose a fortune ( & their jobs ):

http://www.coindesk.com/bankrupt-bitcoin-mining-company-alydian-sell-218ths-mining-power/




I'm small, so for me it's a punt.  But I do expect to make a little profit, or there is no point in buying professional mining kit ( I don't use USB anything, as that WILL run at a loss ).  If the good doctor wants to keep the TH's going ( and his donations coming ) he needs to be able to respond to how the market moves.

Which means piggy-backing other Pools if need be, whilst looking like a datacenter to them.  Such is the way of life the Bitcoin gods throw at us.

[christhegoth]

Past luck doesn't affect future luck.

This is very important to understand. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy

You can't switch to a luckier pool, and switch back when luck returns. That's not how luck works.

There is no such thing as pool X having good luck right now. There is only: pool X had good luck the last few hours, but noone knows what luck they will have in the next hours.

If you can tell what luck someone is going to have in the future then by definition we are not talking about luck but something else.

I would have to agree here.  It does seem that the pool's luck is spotty at best.
2 days to make a block (sometimes) are seemingly way too long.
The payouts are decent, but the time between them are discouraging.

The last few days we had some bad luck. But the last month overall was lucky. You have to expect a few unlucky days. Not all days can be lucky. "I'm not lucky every day" does not mean the same as "I'm unlucky every day". Even if it may feel that way sometimes.

Yes, the payouts have been good, and that's probably the most important thing to a miner.

I understand it's frustrating when the unlucky blocks take a long time though. We'll need to increase the hashpower to make them pass faster.

I agree with the Doctor, but my point about 2 bad months still stands.  A bad day or 2 can be ignored, but a bad month or 2 is not exactly fun.

[HerbPean]

Past luck doesn't affect future luck.

This is very important to understand. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy

You can't switch to a luckier pool, and switch back when luck returns. That's not how luck works.

There is no such thing as pool X having good luck right now. There is only: pool X had good luck the last few hours, but noone knows what luck they will have in the next hours.

If you can tell what luck someone is going to have in the future then by definition we are not talking about luck but something else.

I would have to agree here.  It does seem that the pool's luck is spotty at best.
2 days to make a block (sometimes) are seemingly way too long.
The payouts are decent, but the time between them are discouraging.

The last few days we had some bad luck. But the last month overall was lucky. You have to expect a few unlucky days. Not all days can be lucky. "I'm not lucky every day" does not mean the same as "I'm unlucky every day". Even if it may feel that way sometimes.

Yes, the payouts have been good, and that's probably the most important thing to a miner.

I understand it's frustrating when the unlucky blocks take a long time though. We'll need to increase the hashpower to make them pass faster.

I agree with the Doctor, but my point about 2 bad months still stands.  A bad day or 2 can be ignored, but a bad month or 2 is not exactly fun.

What is not fun is a 7.8% block that is stale ! :-)

For the rest, i don't see luck problem here. People need to stop to press the panic button when we hit a less lucky streak (we solved 6 block in 25 hours just like 2 weeks ago). If you invest in miners, you're taking a lot of risk and if you cannot handle the fact that luck is part of the risk in your investment, you might have do something wrong in your thinking.

I did invest in miner, knowing that i might have NOTHING in 6 month (bitcoin crash, hash rate explode, someone hack the bitcoin ?? name it you got it.)

the "I need more stable income to pay my electricity" bills is complete no-sens to me.

The way I see it, my electricity bills is an investment in the BTC whatever the luck we have.

Just my 2 cents

[christhegoth]

To flesh this idea out:

At present the Doctor has the Mining Server ( this is a simplification, as I have not seen DrHaribo's rig ).

This server picks up all our logins, sends us work and payments, and also goes looking for blocks and the BTC tied to them ( so that there is work and BTC to send to us ).  So it has 3 modules.  Miner login ( with the nice GUI ), work and payment distribution, and block ( & BTC ) hunting.

I'm going to assume it's one rather beefy server for the sake of this example.

If the Doctor had a second server which carried all the log-ins, work distributions, payment distributions, and simply made us look like one big-ass miner ( 1450TH of Antminer S27000 ) that 2nd server could then latch onto the original mining server ( so we'd be mining Bitminter's server ), but it could also latch onto another pool should the need arise ( as it works like a big-ass miner unit ).

So the second server would have 3 modules.  Miner login ( with the nice GUI ), work and payment distribution, and 'pool logon' ( like with your s1 at home ).  And the pool logon, like an s1, could have 3 pools ready to go in it.  The Doctor could even spread his bets across 3 pools without us Bitminter users knowing.  We'd think we were mining Bitminter; but in reality we'd be on Bitminter, Eligius, & GHash too ( all at the same time ).

This will be more work for The Doc, sure; but...

Who would be willing to pay for some 'Bad Luck insurance'?  I would.  Would others?  Another perk to help 'guarantee' income?  Like the pre-payment perk?


I just don't think those who are throwing money at mining gear whilst not thinking about return live in the real world.  If MtGox can fall then others can to. And if those miners fall Bitcoin is dead.  It's in everyone's interest to keep this pool as alive as possible.  No-one ( bar a rare few ) is wealthy enough to just take a pile of £50 notes and set them on fire.  Mining does require plotting & scheming.


As an aside I've just checked Eligius.  They have also slowed down over the past 2 weeks.  If this is a general trend across all pools then Bitminter will DEFINITELY need to be able to respond.

Remember, an experienced miner spreads his kit across multiple pools to cover his backside.  So that a streak of bad luck does not ruin him.  It's a reasonable enough risk-management.



I'm an engineer with 20 years of reading.  Hope that makes sense

[jfederkins]

Past luck doesn't affect future luck.

This is very important to understand. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy

You can't switch to a luckier pool, and switch back when luck returns. That's not how luck works.

There is no such thing as pool X having good luck right now. There is only: pool X had good luck the last few hours, but noone knows what luck they will have in the next hours.

If you can tell what luck someone is going to have in the future then by definition we are not talking about luck but something else.

I would have to agree here.  It does seem that the pool's luck is spotty at best.
2 days to make a block (sometimes) are seemingly way too long.
The payouts are decent, but the time between them are discouraging.

The last few days we had some bad luck. But the last month overall was lucky. You have to expect a few unlucky days. Not all days can be lucky. "I'm not lucky every day" does not mean the same as "I'm unlucky every day". Even if it may feel that way sometimes.

Yes, the payouts have been good, and that's probably the most important thing to a miner.

I understand it's frustrating when the unlucky blocks take a long time though. We'll need to increase the hashpower to make them pass faster.

I agree with the Doctor, but my point about 2 bad months still stands.  A bad day or 2 can be ignored, but a bad month or 2 is not exactly fun.

What is not fun is a 7.8% block that is stale ! :-)

For the rest, i don't see luck problem here. People need to stop to press the panic button when we hit a less lucky streak (we solved 6 block in 25 hours just like 2 weeks ago). If you invest in miners, you're taking a lot of risk and if you cannot handle the fact that luck is part of the risk in your investment, you might have do something wrong in your thinking.

I did invest in miner, knowing that i might have NOTHING in 6 month (bitcoin crash, hash rate explode, someone hack the bitcoin ?? name it you got it.)

the "I need more stable income to pay my electricity" bills is complete no-sens to me.

The way I see it, my electricity bills is an investment in the BTC whatever the luck we have.

Just my 2 cents

I agree totally.

I look at mining as a lottery ticket or going to a casino.

The money I have invested in mining hardware is money that I can afford to lose. Would I be disappointed if I don't break even? Sure. Would I get upset? No. Right now my goal is to make enough to pay for the electricity used to mine.

I started with a couple of stick miners and used my mined BTC to buy some Jally's. The BTC I mined using the Jally's paid for some Chili's. Which paid for some S1's. Which are paying for the S3's I have ordered. All along I have been mining on Bitminter and doing better than breaking even.

I'm sticking with the good doctor, he has done good by me.

[christhegoth]

Past luck doesn't affect future luck.

This is very important to understand. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy

You can't switch to a luckier pool, and switch back when luck returns. That's not how luck works.

There is no such thing as pool X having good luck right now. There is only: pool X had good luck the last few hours, but noone knows what luck they will have in the next hours.

If you can tell what luck someone is going to have in the future then by definition we are not talking about luck but something else.

I would have to agree here.  It does seem that the pool's luck is spotty at best.
2 days to make a block (sometimes) are seemingly way too long.
The payouts are decent, but the time between them are discouraging.

The last few days we had some bad luck. But the last month overall was lucky. You have to expect a few unlucky days. Not all days can be lucky. "I'm not lucky every day" does not mean the same as "I'm unlucky every day". Even if it may feel that way sometimes.

Yes, the payouts have been good, and that's probably the most important thing to a miner.

I understand it's frustrating when the unlucky blocks take a long time though. We'll need to increase the hashpower to make them pass faster.

I agree with the Doctor, but my point about 2 bad months still stands.  A bad day or 2 can be ignored, but a bad month or 2 is not exactly fun.

What is not fun is a 7.8% block that is stale ! :-)

For the rest, i don't see luck problem here. People need to stop to press the panic button when we hit a less lucky streak (we solved 6 block in 25 hours just like 2 weeks ago). If you invest in miners, you're taking a lot of risk and if you cannot handle the fact that luck is part of the risk in your investment, you might have do something wrong in your thinking.

I did invest in miner, knowing that i might have NOTHING in 6 month (bitcoin crash, hash rate explode, someone hack the bitcoin ?? name it you got it.)

the "I need more stable income to pay my electricity" bills is complete no-sens to me.

The way I see it, my electricity bills is an investment in the BTC whatever the luck we have.

Just my 2 cents

I agree totally.

I look at mining as a lottery ticket or going to a casino.

The money I have invested in mining hardware is money that I can afford to lose. Would I be disappointed if I don't break even? Sure. Would I get upset? No. Right now my goal is to make enough to pay for the electricity used to mine.

I started with a couple of stick miners and used my mined BTC to buy some Jally's. The BTC I mined using the Jally's paid for some Chili's. Which paid for some S1's. Which are paying for the S3's I have ordered. All along I have been mining on Bitminter and doing better than breaking even.

I'm sticking with the good doctor, he has done good by me.

Much as I agree in principle you started at the right time.  Others did not, so are more vulnerable to 'luck fluctuations'.

And if they don't get it with Bitminter they'll go elsewhere.

I've kept 1 machine with the doc, but shifted the other two because of this pesky luck stuff.  It means I now have to crunch the numbers each week, but if it gets me a better return then that's teh price I'll have to pay.

I'd rather pay the good Doctor to do it, being honest.

[Minor Miner]

I think you guys are micro managing your miner too much.   Why not look at it by difficulty adjustment periods?   Take what you expect to make per day for the next difficulty level and after 11 or hopefully 12 days when difficulty adjusts again see if you made that amount on average.   This pool is solid.
Do not expect to make your expected payout every day.

[christhegoth]

I think you guys are micro managing your miner too much.   Why not look at it by difficulty adjustment periods?   Take what you expect to make per day for the next difficulty level and after 11 or hopefully 12 days when difficulty adjusts again see if you made that amount on average.   This pool is solid.
Do not expect to make your expected payout every day.

I made the call to 'spread my bet' after 2 weeks of results and Doc's graph changing from the old pattern that was there ( and had been for months ).  Markets can change etc etc.  The bigger pools have less fluctuation ( luck wobbles ), but worse customer service ( because there are so many people to look after ).

Hence why I think Doc should consider the idea I posted above for a second server.  I'd pay a little more to have my ass covered a little more.

[philipma1957]

I think you guys are micro managing your miner too much.   Why not look at it by difficulty adjustment periods?   Take what you expect to make per day for the next difficulty level and after 11 or hopefully 12 days when difficulty adjusts again see if you made that amount on average.   This pool is solid.
Do not expect to make your expected payout every day.

this is the best advice.

and here is some more.   figure out if your miners   are ahead or behind in watts per gh.  

any miner 2 watts a gh or more is drowning in power costs.

any miner between 1-2 watts a gh is treading water.

any miner under 1 watt a gh is swimming well.

also figure your power price.

over 20 cents a k-watt  no good find a host.

15-20 cents you need really efficient gear at a cheap price

10-15 cents   you need efficient gear at a good price

5 to 10 cents you are in pretty good shape.

0 to 5 cents please contact me if you are close to NJ i would like to use my s-3's at your place. ( a weak try at being funny)

[silverthornne]

Question: how long should I wait to remove some workers that I no longer need? I've used some pools on the past on which removing a worker meant losing shares that haven't been paid out yet but I'm not sure if that happens on Bitminter.

[christhegoth]

Yo Doc!  I just found this:

https://github.com/cdhowie/Bitcoin-mining-proxy

Allows you to have multiple blahs on a thingy.  By the looks of it you can have a bunch of miners on it, and then point it where you wish.   You have the worker on this server, and can point each worker at a different pool if need be.

Which would help with this luck issue.

[jfederkins]

Yo Doc!  I just found this:

https://github.com/cdhowie/Bitcoin-mining-proxy

Allows you to have multiple blahs on a thingy.  By the looks of it you can have a bunch of miners on it, and then point it where you wish.   You have the worker on this server, and can point each worker at a different pool if need be.

Which would help with this luck issue.

IMO, it's time to drop the whole "luck" discussion.

We solved 5 BTClocks in less than 2 days.

Our luck looks just fine.

Not trying to be snarky, but nothing is preventing you from going to another pool if you are not happy with BitMinter.

[rockby11]

There is a way to avoid "stale" block?

[christhegoth]

Yo Doc!  I just found this:

https://github.com/cdhowie/Bitcoin-mining-proxy

Allows you to have multiple blahs on a thingy.  By the looks of it you can have a bunch of miners on it, and then point it where you wish.   You have the worker on this server, and can point each worker at a different pool if need be.

Which would help with this luck issue.

IMO, it's time to drop the whole "luck" discussion.

We solved 5 BTClocks in less than 2 days.

Our luck looks just fine.

Not trying to be snarky, but nothing is preventing you from going to another pool if you are not happy with BitMinter.

This is precisely my point.  If I need to jump to another pool for a bit the good Doctor will lose his cut for a bit.  And I will lose my excellent GUI ( the Bitminter setup is very nice after all ).

If I am still logging into Bitminter for mining, but can choose which pool my miner points at via the very nice Bitminter GUI ( so I can choose between Bitminter, Eligius, or GHASH.io for example ), then the good Doctor still gets paid.  Luck graphs can be compared, and you know some people will enjoy the ducking and diving bit.  Having it all on one website ( run by Bitminter ) would be a nice product for miners to buy into.

Hence why I looked for some tech for the good Doctor ( to help him ).  The mining proxy link I put up.


But yes, I think I need to stop making this sales pitch now and let people have a think.


FYI:  I'll never leave Bitminter, but I shift some of my power to other pools if our luck is down.  There is always a minimum that stays with Bitminter though.  And I want to leave it all here really.  I have bought an S3 for a reason.

[AaronS]

If I am still logging into Bitminter for mining, but can choose which pool my miner points at via the very nice Bitminter GUI ( so I can choose between Bitminter, Eligius, or GHASH.io for example ), then the good Doctor still gets paid.  Luck graphs can be compared, and you know some people will enjoy the ducking and diving bit.  Having it all on one website ( run by Bitminter ) would be a nice product for miners to buy into.

This would mean you are paying fees to both Bitminter and whatever pool your hash power is being directed to, which would be a bad idea.