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Author Topic: [1050 TH] BitMinter.com [1% PPLNS,Pays TxFees +MergedMining,Stratum,GBT,vardiff]  (Read 834529 times)
eleuthria
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May 20, 2014, 02:56:41 PM
 #6361

Sooo...I'm a noob...but...doesn't the PPLNS mean that when folks bail on the pool...it's going to take them a while to get back up to their previous share if they decide to come back when this block is solved and we get back to "normal"?

PPLNS has a charge-up and wind-down period.  When you first start, your reward is lower than what you'd expect per shift, until you have shares in all the shifts which are receiving payments.

When you stop mining, you continue getting paid until all the shifts you had shares in have left the window that gets paid.


However, the two periods are symmetrical.  You do not gain or lose anything by continuing to mine or leaving the pool.  At any given point, the *expected value* of any share submitted is completely independent of how long you have been mining previously, or how long you continue to mine on a PPLNS pool.

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philipma1957
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May 20, 2014, 03:57:19 PM
 #6362

Sooo...I'm a noob...but...doesn't the PPLNS mean that when folks bail on the pool...it's going to take them a while to get back up to their previous share if they decide to come back when this block is solved and we get back to "normal"?

PPLNS has a charge-up and wind-down period.  When you first start, your reward is lower than what you'd expect per shift, until you have shares in all the shifts which are receiving payments.

When you stop mining, you continue getting paid until all the shifts you had shares in have left the window that gets paid.


However, the two periods are symmetrical.  You do not gain or lose anything by continuing to mine or leaving the pool.  At any given point, the *expected value* of any share submitted is completely independent of how long you have been mining previously, or how long you continue to mine on a PPLNS pool.

all correct .  there is luck involved in the ramp up and ramp down.    As you ramp up  all hit blocks pay a little more    then the stable number as you maxed out.  when you leave and ramp down all blocks hit pay less.

so leaving in a cold streak is fine as long as the streak stays cold right until you have zero hash.  leaving in a cold streak is terrible if the pool gets really hot and you have very little hash left.

I think I will boost my hash now as a 49 hour streak is long time.

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
eleuthria
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May 20, 2014, 04:14:08 PM
 #6363

all correct .  there is luck involved in the ramp up and ramp down.    As you ramp up  all hit blocks pay a little more    then the stable number as you maxed out.  when you leave and ramp down all blocks hit pay less.

so leaving in a cold streak is fine as long as the streak stays cold right until you have zero hash.  leaving in a cold streak is terrible if the pool gets really hot and you have very little hash left.

I think I will boost my hash now as a 49 hour streak is long time.


While you're right on luck affecting payouts, the fact remains that the *expected* payout for a share doesn't change from the moment it's submitted, and it's independent of any previous/future mining activity.

Hot/cold streaks are not possible to predict.  Basing a decision to join/leave based on past results is no different than gambling.  Since PPLNS pays shares based on future performance, it is not possible to hop in/out of luck with ANY reliability, which is why it's unhoppable.

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May 20, 2014, 05:23:03 PM
 #6364

all correct .  there is luck involved in the ramp up and ramp down.    As you ramp up  all hit blocks pay a little more    then the stable number as you maxed out.  when you leave and ramp down all blocks hit pay less.

so leaving in a cold streak is fine as long as the streak stays cold right until you have zero hash.  leaving in a cold streak is terrible if the pool gets really hot and you have very little hash left.

I think I will boost my hash now as a 49 hour streak is long time.


While you're right on luck affecting payouts, the fact remains that the *expected* payout for a share doesn't change from the moment it's submitted, and it's independent of any previous/future mining activity.

Hot/cold streaks are not possible to predict.  Basing a decision to join/leave based on past results is no different than gambling.  Since PPLNS pays shares based on future performance, it is not possible to hop in/out of luck with ANY reliability, which is why it's unhoppable.


Ok...that all makes sense. Thanks.

By the way, I have a general question about hardware and frankly after reading a lot of the posts over the past couple of weeks in that section, I'm flummoxed/discombobulated.  I know this is off topic but the guys(gals?) in this thread seem to be a bit more mature and considered in their responses...so shall I ask it here or maybe pm some of the guys?

I just don't want to be an ass...as well as a noob...
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May 20, 2014, 06:59:57 PM
 #6365


By the way, I have a general question about hardware and frankly after reading a lot of the posts over the past couple of weeks in that section, I'm flummoxed/discombobulated.  I know this is off topic but the guys(gals?) in this thread seem to be a bit more mature and considered in their responses...so shall I ask it here or maybe pm some of the guys?

I just don't want to be an ass...as well as a noob...



Never hurts to ask.  This group has been very good at helping and sharing knowledge.   
philipma1957
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May 20, 2014, 08:35:15 PM
 #6366

all correct .  there is luck involved in the ramp up and ramp down.    As you ramp up  all hit blocks pay a little more    then the stable number as you maxed out.  when you leave and ramp down all blocks hit pay less.

so leaving in a cold streak is fine as long as the streak stays cold right until you have zero hash.  leaving in a cold streak is terrible if the pool gets really hot and you have very little hash left.

I think I will boost my hash now as a 49 hour streak is long time.


While you're right on luck affecting payouts, the fact remains that the *expected* payout for a share doesn't change from the moment it's submitted, and it's independent of any previous/future mining activity.

Hot/cold streaks are not possible to predict.  Basing a decision to join/leave based on past results is no different than gambling.  Since PPLNS pays shares based on future performance, it is not possible to hop in/out of luck with ANY reliability, which is why it's unhoppable.


Ok...that all makes sense. Thanks.

By the way, I have a general question about hardware and frankly after reading a lot of the posts over the past couple of weeks in that section, I'm flummoxed/discombobulated.  I know this is off topic but the guys(gals?) in this thread seem to be a bit more mature and considered in their responses...so shall I ask it here or maybe pm some of the guys?

I just don't want to be an ass...as well as a noob...

 feel free to fire away.

I am been playing the btc game for about 2 years. 

First off.  BTC/any coin at all can crash and burn leaving you with nothing. So do not spend more then any money you can afford to turn into $0.00

Second off.  No piece of gear right now is 2x better then any other gear.

 What does this mean the best watt to hash  number is about .7 watts for 1gh hash
a spoondollies sp10 in low power mode  uses 700 watts for 1th.

most gear now is 1 watt to 2 watts per hash. 

Third fast delivery is very important.

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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May 20, 2014, 09:02:33 PM
 #6367

it is just me or is the whole clan stuck at CDF 99.24% AND 2days and 6 hours?  what's going on?
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #wzlrVTmurjbRQHjb
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May 20, 2014, 09:08:35 PM
 #6368

whole pool*
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #618i8obDf7LOIsrx
silverthornne
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May 20, 2014, 09:14:17 PM
 #6369

Actually it's at 99.25% right now Smiley

Really, it's just bad luck. Bitminter has a link to a Wikipedia article explaining CDF in their Statistics -> Luck link that explains the concept behind the luck calculation and how it works.

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May 20, 2014, 10:19:40 PM
 #6370

all correct .  there is luck involved in the ramp up and ramp down.    As you ramp up  all hit blocks pay a little more    then the stable number as you maxed out.  when you leave and ramp down all blocks hit pay less.

so leaving in a cold streak is fine as long as the streak stays cold right until you have zero hash.  leaving in a cold streak is terrible if the pool gets really hot and you have very little hash left.

I think I will boost my hash now as a 49 hour streak is long time.


While you're right on luck affecting payouts, the fact remains that the *expected* payout for a share doesn't change from the moment it's submitted, and it's independent of any previous/future mining activity.

Hot/cold streaks are not possible to predict.  Basing a decision to join/leave based on past results is no different than gambling.  Since PPLNS pays shares based on future performance, it is not possible to hop in/out of luck with ANY reliability, which is why it's unhoppable.


Ok...that all makes sense. Thanks.

By the way, I have a general question about hardware and frankly after reading a lot of the posts over the past couple of weeks in that section, I'm flummoxed/discombobulated.  I know this is off topic but the guys(gals?) in this thread seem to be a bit more mature and considered in their responses...so shall I ask it here or maybe pm some of the guys?

I just don't want to be an ass...as well as a noob...

 feel free to fire away.

I am been playing the btc game for about 2 years. 

First off.  BTC/any coin at all can crash and burn leaving you with nothing. So do not spend more then any money you can afford to turn into $0.00

Second off.  No piece of gear right now is 2x better then any other gear.

 What does this mean the best watt to hash  number is about .7 watts for 1gh hash
a spoondollies sp10 in low power mode  uses 700 watts for 1th.

most gear now is 1 watt to 2 watts per hash. 

Third fast delivery is very important.


Ok...here it goes...

I am currently running 1.2TH in antminer S1's.  For a variety of reasons (all legal) I have been presented with a situation where my electricity costs are minimal.  (less than 6 cents kWh) The catch is that I only have 24U in a data rack with which to put miners in.  The room is also air conditioned and sound is not a problem. So...the only limiting factor is CapEx (I'm no lottery winner) and space.   It's funny you should mention Spondoolies because it would seem to solve my problem nicely.  Except...I have found the PepperMining Habanero.  I have run the numbers and I can fit 2 boards in a single re-purposed 2U server case complete with psu's and plenty of cooling, for a little less than half the CapEx of the Spondoolies. So 1.4TH vs 1.3TH in roughly the same space with a significant cost difference, minus the intangibles. (which might make a huge difference and I'm just too new to see them - i.e. who can you trust, who will be supportive, who's going to be around in 6 months time)

My question is...without being burdened by power efficiency, cooling or noise pollution, am I crazy to consider building up the Habanero's (which haven't even be produced yet) in lieu of going with a tried and tested Spondoolies (which is so highly priced that the ROI is scary, and delivery data is kinda iffy)?  Or I could simply stick with the tried and tested Antminer S2 which is shipping in 48hrs and jam as many as I can in the cabinet and call it a day. (a bird in the hand)

Or am I missing something so obvious that you're all screaming at your monitors right now?

The pools' collected wisdom is very welcome



philipma1957
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May 20, 2014, 10:26:27 PM
 #6371

yes ant miner s2's are price in usd and btc is going up.  this makes ant miner s2's a better deal today over yesterday by serious difference    .


 also do you have an s2 coupon?  if you do that is 400 usd off the price.

       I would get s2's asap.

pm me if you need an s2 coupon as I have 8 ..

 I am off loading all my s-1's to get an s2 or 2 .

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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May 20, 2014, 10:52:44 PM
 #6372

Just wondering, what will happen if I get a share accepted with my worker, then delete the worker immediately after?
Will the amount for the share be lost?
philipma1957
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May 21, 2014, 01:37:04 AM
 #6373

Just wondering, what will happen if I get a share accepted with my worker, then delete the worker immediately after?
Will the amount for the share be lost?

do not delete workers like that as there  no need to do it.

make a new worker move to the new one then delete the old worker the next day.

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
Injust
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May 21, 2014, 01:51:33 AM
 #6374

Just wondering, what will happen if I get a share accepted with my worker, then delete the worker immediately after?
Will the amount for the share be lost?

do not delete workers like that as there  no need to do it.

make a new worker move to the new one then delete the old worker the next day.

That's exactly what I have been doing. But I'm just curious Tongue
philipma1957
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May 21, 2014, 02:16:42 AM
 #6375

Just wondering, what will happen if I get a share accepted with my worker, then delete the worker immediately after?
Will the amount for the share be lost?

do not delete workers like that as there  no need to do it.

make a new worker move to the new one then delete the old worker the next day.

That's exactly what I have been doing. But I'm just curious Tongue

I read some place you can lose the work.   but I am not sure if it was here.   one place that does say you lose the work is www.wemineltc     but they are a ltc pool.  I do think I have read it in this thread but this is a very long thread.

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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May 21, 2014, 02:35:41 AM
 #6376

Just wondering, what will happen if I get a share accepted with my worker, then delete the worker immediately after?
Will the amount for the share be lost?

do not delete workers like that as there  no need to do it.

make a new worker move to the new one then delete the old worker the next day.

That's exactly what I have been doing. But I'm just curious Tongue

I read some place you can lose the work.   but I am not sure if it was here.   one place that does say you lose the work is www.wemineltc     but they are a ltc pool.  I do think I have read it in this thread but this is a very long thread.

If I got the UTC conversion right, shift 64 is the first full shift where i had both machines mining nonstop. Seems kinda surprising Im barely getting more proofs than I got previously with just one machine. But I have been creating and deleting workers a fair bit, you sure that doesnt delete my "proofs"?

You can see they produced more proofs of work in shift 64 than in shift 63. Nothing is ever deleted from the database. Workers are just marked as deleted if you "delete" them on the website.


Think it might be that ^ post that you read? I think that answers my question Tongue
Simple search did the job.
cenicsoft
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May 21, 2014, 03:50:56 PM
 #6377

Ok...here it goes...

I am currently running 1.2TH in antminer S1's.  For a variety of reasons (all legal) I have been presented with a situation where my electricity costs are minimal.  (less than 6 cents kWh) The catch is that I only have 24U in a data rack with which to put miners in.  The room is also air conditioned and sound is not a problem. So...the only limiting factor is CapEx (I'm no lottery winner) and space.   It's funny you should mention Spondoolies because it would seem to solve my problem nicely.  Except...I have found the PepperMining Habanero.  I have run the numbers and I can fit 2 boards in a single re-purposed 2U server case complete with psu's and plenty of cooling, for a little less than half the CapEx of the Spondoolies. So 1.4TH vs 1.3TH in roughly the same space with a significant cost difference, minus the intangibles. (which might make a huge difference and I'm just too new to see them - i.e. who can you trust, who will be supportive, who's going to be around in 6 months time)

My question is...without being burdened by power efficiency, cooling or noise pollution, am I crazy to consider building up the Habanero's (which haven't even be produced yet) in lieu of going with a tried and tested Spondoolies (which is so highly priced that the ROI is scary, and delivery data is kinda iffy)?  Or I could simply stick with the tried and tested Antminer S2 which is shipping in 48hrs and jam as many as I can in the cabinet and call it a day. (a bird in the hand)

Or am I missing something so obvious that you're all screaming at your monitors right now?

The pools' collected wisdom is very welcome

I don't see how you can recover your CapEx even with low cost power.  If the difficulty keeps rising ~20%, you'll never earn enough BTC to warrant what you'll spend in BTC to cover your equipment costs.  If you buy with cash and then BTC goes up significantly, then you can earn a return.  However, you'd simply be better buying BTC at current rates and if it goes to $600 to $800, you'll make a much more significant return.

The S2 is much more power efficient, but the cost is significantly higher than the S1's for the same Gh/s. You can get nearly double the hash rate by buying S1's.  At some point though, you'll run out of power in your facility.

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DrHaribo
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May 21, 2014, 04:11:51 PM
 #6378

There are some issues with blacklotus
I have rebooted my miners - 20 tplinks

Sorry for the late response.

20 connections from the same location should work fine. There may be a temporary issue if they all connect at once, though I don't think 20 is enough to trigger anti DDoS measures. If your IP address gets filtered as an anti DDoS response, you should be able to access the server again after just a couple of minutes as long as your miners are not repeating connection attempts at a very high rate.

There is a bug in the current mining server code that can cause delayed response to stratum authentication commands. This can cause a delay when first connecting to the server, or even your client timing out. But if this is the problem your miner should normally switch back from backup pool fairly quickly and begin mining normally at Bitminter. This bug is fixed in a new version of the server software that I hope to have up and running in a few days.

In both cases your miners should switch back to Bitminter within a couple of minutes. But I take it this was not the case?

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May 21, 2014, 06:04:55 PM
 #6379

There are some issues with blacklotus
I have rebooted my miners - 20 tplinks

Sorry for the late response.

20 connections from the same location should work fine. There may be a temporary issue if they all connect at once, though I don't think 20 is enough to trigger anti DDoS measures. If your IP address gets filtered as an anti DDoS response, you should be able to access the server again after just a couple of minutes as long as your miners are not repeating connection attempts at a very high rate.

There is a bug in the current mining server code that can cause delayed response to stratum authentication commands. This can cause a delay when first connecting to the server, or even your client timing out. But if this is the problem your miner should normally switch back from backup pool fairly quickly and begin mining normally at Bitminter. This bug is fixed in a new version of the server software that I hope to have up and running in a few days.

In both cases your miners should switch back to Bitminter within a couple of minutes. But I take it this was not the case?

Thanks doc
It took a day for them to switch
But they are all there for the moment
Let us hope it was the bug in auth you are mentioning
If that happens again I will let you know
Thanks
Best

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May 21, 2014, 06:35:52 PM
 #6380

It took a day for them to switch

One day is extremely long. I can't think of anything on my end that would cause that. Let me know if you have any more problems. And make sure you are running a recent version of bfgminer/cgminer - there's been bugs with the failover pool functionality before, but hopefully not with recent versions.

▶▶▶ Bitminter.com - Your trusted mining pool since 2011.
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