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Author Topic: [1050 TH] BitMinter.com [1% PPLNS,Pays TxFees +MergedMining,Stratum,GBT,vardiff]  (Read 836802 times)
gizza2
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March 25, 2014, 11:52:55 PM
 #6101

Hiya, Doc.

This may have been clarified previously but I'm compelled to ask based on your recent comment about difficulty.

If I understand difficulty correctly it's the sole corrective factor available to the Bitcoin mining algorithm to offset ever-increasing hashing power.  Changes in difficulty result from a review of total hashing power every 2160 blocks so difficulty is reactive not proactive and throttling not punitive.  The authors' goal was to produce/release one block of 25 BTC every 10 mins through the year 2140 so why, other than imbalances in hashing power among individuals and pools, would reward blocks decrease with increases in difficulty?  Don't those steps downward on the rewards page primarily indicate a disproportionate increase of hashing power elsewhere rather than an increase in the difficulty factor itself?  Someone or some pool will receive 25BTC every 10 mins for 126 more years so I'm confused by your reward graph's asymptotic approach toward zero in the short time I've participated here.

Again forgive me if I'm splitting hairs or if I'm just plain wrong but I'm trying to get the sequence of events straight and better understand the value proposition of long-term mining. Where do you predict Bitminter will be in 20 years?

Thanks for your work on Bitminter and for your active participation in this forum.

=G=
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DrHaribo (OP)
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March 26, 2014, 07:00:58 AM
 #6102

Difficulty adjustment happens every 2016 blocks. At difficulty adjustment it looks at how fast the blocks were found, not at the hashpower which is unknown to everyone including the bitcoin system itself.

Reward halving happens every 210 000 blocks. It's a separate process from difficulty adjustments. We've had the first reward halving from 50 BTC to 25 BTC per block already.

The goal with difficulty adjustments is that somewhere a block should be mined every 10 minutes on average, not exactly every 10 minutes. If you are lucky you find two blocks in a row in 1 second. And as long as hashpower keeps rising it will be more often than every 10 minutes - that's why the difficulty goes up.

The reward graph at Bitminter shows a single proof of work being worth less and less as the difficulty goes up. That's because the chance to create a block with one proof of work is 1 divided by the current difficulty. As difficulty goes up the work becomes less valuable because it is less likely to actually create a block. Put another way, the average amount of work needed to create a block goes up, so the value of work goes down. At the next reward halving the value of a proof of work will also be halved (if we ignore income from transaction fees).

I have no idea what the world will look like in 20 years.

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gizza2
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March 26, 2014, 01:29:42 PM
 #6103

Thanks for correcting my sloppy numbers (2016 blocks and ~10 mins) and I wasn't even aware of reward halving.  Your perspective helped a great deal, Doc, and I didn't mean to put you on the spot with the 20 year projection question as nobody has a crystal ball.  I guess I'm just wondering, all else being equal in the world, if mining will remain worthwhile long-term in light of what appears to be a rapidly decreasing and dispersing reward allotment.  I have only two months of mining under my belt and understand that I'm getting into this WAY late but doesn't it feel a bit early in the Bitcoin scheme (5 of131 years) for things to feel this way?  Like others I'm just struggling to justify additional hardware investment in this arms race and I'm guessing I'm not alone. 

In any event I remain intrigued by cryptocurrency as it seems to have greater intrinsic value than legal tender issued by the stupid Fed or other non-US equivalents.

Much appreciated.

=G=
Cascaders28
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March 26, 2014, 02:37:17 PM
 #6104

I know many people are taking mining as an excuse to experiment with water or solar energy and intend to keep their hardware running for as long as it works. The difficultly scales dynamically so while I don't think this has been seen in quite some time it can technically go down if a bunch of miners start being taken offline. Hardware is becoming outdated at an alarming rate but hashing has to continue not only for block discovery and payouts but also to verify transactions. There are some excellent calculators available online that will help you factor in power cost and approx. difficulty increases to guage profitability. I made a small initial investment in some mining hardware and started around 10GH/s. I then jumped to a little over 100 but I've since sold a bit of the gear and right now I have 2 simple Chili miners hashing at around 72GH/s combined. In a few months when they have made me enough coin I might purchase an AntMiner to more than double my hashing power. I'd absolutely love to be one of the big miners with 40TH but I'm approaching this as a hobby and appreciating the decentralized nature of the currency.

I've only been in the game for about 10 months but in that time I've seen the price go from $70 to $1100+ and right back down. If BTC are worth 1 million 20 years from now then even .00001 would probably buy you a coffee somewhere. Right now you can make that off pimping out your signature and faucets.
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March 26, 2014, 07:36:49 PM
 #6105

I love BitMinter for its community and I love the full stat page more than anything else. But I can't avoid noticing that this pool is getting smaller and smaller and that luck is getting higher and higher. My question is: is this just related to hash power or is it also related to the way BitMinter chooses transactions and put them together to form a block? Maybe other pool's algorithm is better at this?
DrHaribo (OP)
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March 26, 2014, 08:40:19 PM
 #6106

Luck goes up and down. It's been fairly average lately.

Variance has gone up. That's because the pool is a smaller part of the global hashpower now.

No, you can't improve your average luck by including certain transactions. Take a look at the sha-256 algorithm on wikipedia. See if you can find ways to predict how certain inputs will affect the output. Noone has been able to do it so far.

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botolo86
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March 26, 2014, 09:21:52 PM
 #6107

No, you can't improve your average luck by including certain transactions. Take a look at the sha-256 algorithm on wikipedia. See if you can find ways to predict how certain inputs will affect the output. Noone has been able to do it so far.

Thanks for your reply, Doc. So basically this means that pools put together transactions randomly (taking into account transactions' fees). Why for example some blocks have more transactions than others? I thought this was because the pools chose those particular transactions because easier to hash but now I understand that this is not true.

Thanks for your clarifications!
DrHaribo (OP)
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March 27, 2014, 06:31:32 AM
 #6108

Thanks for your reply, Doc. So basically this means that pools put together transactions randomly (taking into account transactions' fees). Why for example some blocks have more transactions than others? I thought this was because the pools chose those particular transactions because easier to hash but now I understand that this is not true.

Pools have different settings for the total size of transactions they will take in a block overall, and how much space is reserved for free transactions. And of course the amount of paid transactions varies over time, both in number and size.

There is no known way (yet) to change the data to make it easier to hash.

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Flashman
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March 27, 2014, 10:15:43 AM
 #6109

What about one of them Blendtec blenders? They can mash up a brick until it's easy to chew Cheesy

TL;DR See Spot run. Run Spot run. .... .... Freelance interweb comedian, for teh lulz >>> 1MqAAR4XkJWfDt367hVTv5SstPZ54Fwse6

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March 27, 2014, 01:32:40 PM
 #6110

Luck goes up and down. It's been fairly average lately.

Variance has gone up. That's because the pool is a smaller part of the global hashpower now.

No, you can't improve your average luck by including certain transactions. Take a look at the sha-256 algorithm on wikipedia. See if you can find ways to predict how certain inputs will affect the output. Noone has been able to do it so far.

You did notice that a little over 1/3 of all work has no 1diff nonces right? Cheesy

Pool: https://kano.is - low 0.5% fee PPLNS 3 Days - Most reliable Solo with ONLY 0.5% fee   Bitcointalk thread: Forum
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DrHaribo (OP)
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March 27, 2014, 07:05:23 PM
 #6111

You did notice that a little over 1/3 of all work has no 1diff nonces right? Cheesy

Some work has 3 valid diff-1 nonces, and some has none at all. I haven't found a way to predict this without checking all possible nonce values though.

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March 29, 2014, 01:09:34 AM
 #6112

Yah, WTG Fefox, he done brung it.

Curious as to what hardware it is though, Cointerra?


Mostly Cointerra... little bit of KNC and a dash of BFL.


Power usage and heat is off the hook...


 Fox.
Isuearl
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March 29, 2014, 06:30:38 PM
 #6113

Looks like some else has brung it too...23 TH/s, Hot damn....

donations:
1Mnn794j5pXMUNzz5WpQtmk2FndZXmTMCk
philipma1957
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March 30, 2014, 08:13:17 PM
 #6114

I just moved 800gh from btcguild

 4 antminers.

3) Never invest more than you can afford to lose
2)Not your keys not your coins.
1) be like JJG just DCA
freddyfarnsworth
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March 30, 2014, 08:34:04 PM
 #6115

Looks like some else has brung it too...23 TH/s, Hot damn....

Go Koi !

BTC: 1F1X9dN2PRortYaDkq89YJDbQ72i3F5N3h MEOW: KAbvy9jrrajvN5WLo7RWBsYqYfJKyN9WLf DOGE: DAyKSrTiVeRZaReTu1Cyf5Je6qPdKTuKKE
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March 30, 2014, 08:46:58 PM
 #6116

I brought 2.5TH/s yesterday. From Eligius.

Just halfway through the 10 shifts to get the average up to max. I'm at position 31. Hopefully move up soon with more gear.

Not a massive amount but we are proud of ourselves for getting this far.

Jacko
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March 30, 2014, 09:14:19 PM
 #6117

I brought 2.5TH/s yesterday. From Eligius.

Just halfway through the 10 shifts to get the average up to max. I'm at position 31. Hopefully move up soon with more gear.

Not a massive amount but we are proud of ourselves for getting this far.

Jacko

2.5 is nice.  I  will be up to  6 s-1's  clocked to 200GH ON MONDAY.  THAT would be about 1.2th pulling around 2500watts .  that is the most I can do due to heat issues that will start the end of april or mid may.



  maybe I will  sell the 6 s-1' in late april then order 3 ant miner  s-2's in late april .   

that would be 3th  should pool 2700-2800 watts   

 these are my max watts due to heating.

  it the winter I can push to 4500 watts

3) Never invest more than you can afford to lose
2)Not your keys not your coins.
1) be like JJG just DCA
freddyfarnsworth
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March 31, 2014, 01:47:50 AM
Last edit: April 01, 2014, 10:00:33 AM by freddyfarnsworth
 #6118

I brought 2.5TH/s yesterday. From Eligius.

Just halfway through the 10 shifts to get the average up to max. I'm at position 31. Hopefully move up soon with more gear.

Not a massive amount but we are proud of ourselves for getting this far.

Jacko

2.5 is nice.  I  will be up to  6 s-1's  clocked to 200GH ON MONDAY.  THAT would be about 1.2th pulling around 2500watts .  that is the most I can do due to heat issues that will start the end of april or mid may.



  maybe I will  sell the 6 s-1' in late april then order 3 ant miner  s-2's in late april .  

that would be 3th  should pool 2700-2800 watts  

 these are my max watts due to heating.

  it the winter I can push to 4500 watts

Like I said awhile ago, "You are ahead of me in miners" However I had 300amp circuit warm, occasional blow, when I was doing RC64 17th in the world at that time.
None of that old hardware is usable in mining darnit... quite a setup, I am starting over now.

S1's are really good, any one getting to building enclosures to trap the heat to a exhaust fan outdoors thru the wall ?
Then a 24000 BTU large wall A/C in the room they are in to give em cool air to suck..

I have that setup still, just not suitable hardware... Will get there Smiley



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Flashman
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March 31, 2014, 12:54:00 PM
 #6119

I'm going to be getting somewhere between a 25-85% boost... got some "lame duck" hardware incoming, will depend on my luck on fixing, tweaking and modding...

Yah the percentage sounded more impressive, actual GH would be somewhere around 45ish upward.

TL;DR See Spot run. Run Spot run. .... .... Freelance interweb comedian, for teh lulz >>> 1MqAAR4XkJWfDt367hVTv5SstPZ54Fwse6

Bitcoin Custodian: Keeping BTC away from weak heads since Feb '13, adopter of homeless bitcoins.
Jacko
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March 31, 2014, 01:38:28 PM
 #6120

Good luck fixing them mate.

I've just setup 3 more Ant S1's pushing mine up to 3040GH/s. Now that is getting a little bit warm. I've rented a secure unit for them with a very high ceiling for the heat to rise up out of the way. I'm just waiting for Virgin to put a fiber broadband in then they are out of the House  Grin

No more shorts and t shirt in winter then LMAO.
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