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Author Topic: [1050 TH] BitMinter.com [1% PPLNS,Pays TxFees +MergedMining,Stratum,GBT,vardiff]  (Read 833204 times)
christhegoth
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July 22, 2014, 03:43:56 PM
 #7101

If you want stable payments, use a big pool, if you want some excitement, use a small pool.  If a system was  put in place to smooth out the payments and eliminate "casino", why not just move to a big pool?

Funny how you are asking for stable payments while just a few weeks back Philip was insisting the solution was to offer solo mining where things are pretty much all-or-nothing super-casino.

Because people want Bitminter to grow.  So having 2 tiers ( 'casino' or 'safer' ) may see the big boys come over here ( and away from GHash ).  A bit of customer choice, rather than the rather unfriendly 'like it or leave' too many roll with.
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July 22, 2014, 04:21:37 PM
 #7102

In response to the various 'chase luck' comments.

That's the math.  Think about that before you miss-sell Doc's pool to new people.

You're missing the point...

I'm well aware that my example has nothing to do with "the luck" in searching BTC. It was just trying to make him understand that you cannot predict luck.

Flipping a coin is a sample example.


No.  So far we have people in 2 groups in this debate.

The casino crowd ( you can't chase luck ), and those who are willing to try ( and statistically some but not all will succeed ).

It's not impossible to move one of your miners once every 2 weeks to make an extra tenner.

Much as there won't be a pattern that's reliable short-term trends can be read and used for making a judgement call.  Like how Bitminter works in peaks and troughs, and averages into a luckier pool ( at present ) over a period of at least a month.  Well, that's the pattern so far; but it might not last.


I understand it fine.  Hence why I'm only gambling 1/3 of my hash.


If people see a bad pool they'll walk.  Do you want them to walk forever, or come back in 2 weeks time?
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July 22, 2014, 04:49:35 PM
 #7103

Will someone please wake me when all of this back and forth about luck finally ends?

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July 22, 2014, 11:44:32 PM
 #7104

Hey folks. I'm considering adding my 3 S3's to Bitminter. Should I create separate workers for each or point them all to the same worker? Along with that, what difficulty should I be set at? ( If I point them all at 1 worker, should it be something like 1528?) Sorry, I'm a newb to Bitminter and using multiple miners.  Tongue
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July 23, 2014, 04:18:44 AM
 #7105

Hey folks. I'm considering adding my 3 S3's to Bitminter. Should I create separate workers for each or point them all to the same worker? Along with that, what difficulty should I be set at? ( If I point them all at 1 worker, should it be something like 1528?) Sorry, I'm a newb to Bitminter and using multiple miners.  Tongue

Separate workers means you can see if one goes down, but if you use 1 worker it's still pretty obvious if 450 GH/s disappears.

As for minimum difficulty it's hash for the miner / 1.4 if I remember correctly, and is best set at the lower amount ( rather than combining all 3 ).

At present Bitminter is ahead of the game on luck ( profit ) , but it only comes out if you average over a month. Bad weeks & fortnights do happen, but then so do good weeks & fortnights. It's the average over a month that adds up. We ARE a lucky pool at present.


Correct me if I am wrong Doc Smiley
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July 23, 2014, 06:46:30 AM
 #7106

Hey folks. I'm considering adding my 3 S3's to Bitminter. Should I create separate workers for each or point them all to the same worker? Along with that, what difficulty should I be set at? ( If I point them all at 1 worker, should it be something like 1528?) Sorry, I'm a newb to Bitminter and using multiple miners.  Tongue

Separate workers means you can see if one goes down, but if you use 1 worker it's still pretty obvious if 450 GH/s disappears.

As for minimum difficulty it's hash for the miner / 1.4 if I remember correctly, and is best set at the lower amount ( rather than combining all 3 ).

At present Bitminter is ahead of the game on luck ( profit ) , but it only comes out if you average over a month. Bad weeks & fortnights do happen, but then so do good weeks & fortnights. It's the average over a month that adds up. We ARE a lucky pool at present.


Correct me if I am wrong Doc Smiley

Thanks for the info! I figured I'll play around in a small pool for awhile. More excitement here!
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July 23, 2014, 07:06:53 AM
 #7107

Hey folks. I'm considering adding my 3 S3's to Bitminter. Should I create separate workers for each or point them all to the same worker? Along with that, what difficulty should I be set at? ( If I point them all at 1 worker, should it be something like 1528?) Sorry, I'm a newb to Bitminter and using multiple miners.  Tongue

Separate workers means you can see if one goes down, but if you use 1 worker it's still pretty obvious if 450 GH/s disappears.

As for minimum difficulty it's hash for the miner / 1.4 if I remember correctly, and is best set at the lower amount ( rather than combining all 3 ).

At present Bitminter is ahead of the game on luck ( profit ) , but it only comes out if you average over a month. Bad weeks & fortnights do happen, but then so do good weeks & fortnights. It's the average over a month that adds up. We ARE a lucky pool at present.


Correct me if I am wrong Doc Smiley

Thanks for the info! I figured I'll play around in a small pool for awhile. More excitement here!

No problem.  The graph below shows how our payments work out:

https://bitminter.com/stats/rewards

We've just entered a period of what I expect to be 'bad times' that will probably last about 2 weeks.  Then we should get 2 weeks of good times.  This is based on our results so far, as shown on the graph.  Peaks & troughs, good times & bad times.

During bad times the s1 miners have A LOT of trouble making ends meet.  With an s3 you should be fine for making some profit in bad times.  In good times you'll rake it in.

Hence why you need to keep it patient and average over a month Smiley
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July 23, 2014, 06:15:32 PM
 #7108

Doc (or anyone else that can confirm) -

As long as BTC difficulty is higher than NMC difficulty, the pool will create a NMC block for every BTC block we find, correct?  Ignoring stale/orphaned and considering current conditions.


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July 23, 2014, 06:35:26 PM
 #7109

All of this talk about luck and changing pools is stupid.  Its like switching slot machines at a casino when yours isn't paying.  You can never know if you're 1 hash away from solving a block or 5 billion so trying to "figure it out" is dumb.  I understand that some people have very internal loci of control and they think that they can change their luck if the pool is having a slow few days but you can't. Not "but what if I...?".  YOU. CAN'T.

Bitminter is - by far - the best pool around.  Yes, the GUI is nice, lots of good hardware is supported and the donations are more than reasonable but the real benefit to this pool is the Doc.  Where else is the owner / manager of the pool this accessible?  The guy responds to just about every question (even dumb ones about luck) and provides thorough and thoughtful answers and comments. 

The marketing of the pool isn't the issue the problem is the first mover advantage of the other pools.  They've been around a little longer so every how-to and bitcoin mining tutorial that was written early on in the days of mining instructs people on how to access those pools.  Most people stick with the pools they started with and find all other pools to be inferior.
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July 23, 2014, 08:34:06 PM
 #7110

Quote
Yes, the GUI is nice, lots of good hardware is supported and the donations are more than reasonable but the real benefit to this pool is the Doc.  Where else is the owner / manager of the pool this accessible?  The guy responds to just about every question (even dumb ones about luck) and provides thorough and thoughtful answers and comments.  

Agreed, I love good stats, and BitMinter does that and makes it easy for me to analyze my performance/ROI (However depressing it looks at times when difficulty increases Shocked) . The good Doc has to field a great array of questions ... from simple to complex ... and each is given equal thought and reply ... within a good time frame.

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July 23, 2014, 10:18:49 PM
 #7111

Doc (or anyone else that can confirm) -

As long as BTC difficulty is higher than NMC difficulty, the pool will create a NMC block for every BTC block we find, correct?  Ignoring stale/orphaned and considering current conditions.
Yes

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July 23, 2014, 10:59:07 PM
 #7112

Separate workers means you can see if one goes down, but if you use 1 worker it's still pretty obvious if 450 GH/s disappears.

Yeah, that's why I often tell people that using separate workers is most useful if you have them in separate locations. If something fails then you will know where to go to fix it.

If you have 2-3 machines stacked on top of each other you'll probably do fine with 1 worker. If one of the machines fails it won't take you long to find out which one it is.

We've just entered a period of what I expect to be 'bad times' that will probably last about 2 weeks.  Then we should get 2 weeks of good times.

That's not how random works.

If you think random events are predictable then go ahead and try to make extra coins by predicting which pool will be lucky. But please don't tell new users that this is how it works.

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July 24, 2014, 12:43:00 AM
 #7113

We've just entered a period of what I expect to be 'bad times' that will probably last about 2 weeks.  Then we should get 2 weeks of good times.

That's not how random works.

If you think random events are predictable then go ahead and try to make extra coins by predicting which pool will be lucky. But please don't tell new users that this is how it works.


Doc, might be a good time to write a FAQ on luck and simply reference that URL on the site every time the discussion of luck comes up.

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July 24, 2014, 02:48:56 AM
 #7114

Separate workers means you can see if one goes down, but if you use 1 worker it's still pretty obvious if 450 GH/s disappears.

Yeah, that's why I often tell people that using separate workers is most useful if you have them in separate locations. If something fails then you will know where to go to fix it.

If you have 2-3 machines stacked on top of each other you'll probably do fine with 1 worker. If one of the machines fails it won't take you long to find out which one it is.

We've just entered a period of what I expect to be 'bad times' that will probably last about 2 weeks.  Then we should get 2 weeks of good times.

That's not how random works.

If you think random events are predictable then go ahead and try to make extra coins by predicting which pool will be lucky. But please don't tell new users that this is how it works.



With respect Doc your Rewards Graph clearly shows peaks & troughs, and this does show up in the payments too. Hence why it's so important to average over the month.

Is there a better way of describing it?
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July 24, 2014, 02:59:22 AM
 #7115

Separate workers means you can see if one goes down, but if you use 1 worker it's still pretty obvious if 450 GH/s disappears.

Yeah, that's why I often tell people that using separate workers is most useful if you have them in separate locations. If something fails then you will know where to go to fix it.

If you have 2-3 machines stacked on top of each other you'll probably do fine with 1 worker. If one of the machines fails it won't take you long to find out which one it is.

We've just entered a period of what I expect to be 'bad times' that will probably last about 2 weeks.  Then we should get 2 weeks of good times.

That's not how random works.

If you think random events are predictable then go ahead and try to make extra coins by predicting which pool will be lucky. But please don't tell new users that this is how it works.



With respect Doc your Rewards Graph clearly shows peaks & troughs, and this does show up in the payments too. Hence why it's so important to average over the month.

Is there a better way of describing it?

Yes, random.
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July 24, 2014, 03:11:11 AM
 #7116

Separate workers means you can see if one goes down, but if you use 1 worker it's still pretty obvious if 450 GH/s disappears.

Yeah, that's why I often tell people that using separate workers is most useful if you have them in separate locations. If something fails then you will know where to go to fix it.

If you have 2-3 machines stacked on top of each other you'll probably do fine with 1 worker. If one of the machines fails it won't take you long to find out which one it is.

We've just entered a period of what I expect to be 'bad times' that will probably last about 2 weeks.  Then we should get 2 weeks of good times.

That's not how random works.

If you think random events are predictable then go ahead and try to make extra coins by predicting which pool will be lucky. But please don't tell new users that this is how it works.



With respect Doc your Rewards Graph clearly shows peaks & troughs, and this does show up in the payments too. Hence why it's so important to average over the month.

Is there a better way of describing it?

Yes, random.


Here we go again.   Ok, I'll use the words 'random' with 'monthly average' should I chat with newbs.

But I assure you the larger investors will want more than that.
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July 24, 2014, 04:41:00 AM
 #7117

Just because a graph has peaks and troughs does not mean it is systematic.  Any "two-week cycle" you are seeing is something your mind is imposing on the data.  Do a Fourier analysis and I am pretty sure you will find there is no reliable pattern.  I can say this with conviction because it is a random event and by definition will have no pattern.

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July 24, 2014, 04:54:17 AM
 #7118

Just because a graph has peaks and troughs does not mean it is systematic.  Any "two-week cycle" you are seeing is something your mind is imposing on the data.  Do a Fourier analysis and I am pretty sure you will find there is no reliable pattern.  I can say this with conviction because it is a random event and by definition will have no pattern.



That 10 day bad patch, clearly shown on the graph, is a certain width. Compare it with other peaks & troughs & there is something there.

However, if it's only 10 days long ( for example ) then any pool-jumping will be pointless.

If you're above average for a month that's worth a look at.

Luck-wise for the past 2 months we've been average. We gained the lead we have due to a 2 month-ish period before then where we had good luck. The gradient on the bottom graph shows the changes. Which is differentiation, not Fourier.

We had a steeper gradient 2 months back to get to the gap between green & yellow we now have. That gap has stayed fairly constant in size since, which clearly shows us shifting back to average ( or it would have got bigger or smaller ).

It still means you have to use monthly averages to get a real view of what's going on.
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July 24, 2014, 05:41:48 AM
 #7119

That 10 day bad patch, clearly shown on the graph, is a certain width. Compare it with other peaks & troughs & there is something there.

You're imagining things. It can look like there is a system or pattern when you look at a small set of data. In reality it's random.

However, if it's only 10 days long ( for example ) then any pool-jumping will be pointless.

No, it doesn't matter how long. If you could pool-hop based on predicting luck then you'd make a lot more coins. But you can't.

There's already many users struggling to understand random/luck. Some believe bad luck doesn't occur naturally and ask if the pool is broken every time we have bad luck.

Don't make it worse by suggesting luck is predictable and follows a certain pattern. It doesn't.

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July 24, 2014, 03:03:13 PM
 #7120

ChrisTheGoth

You keep reminding us you are an engineer but keep saying things that make no sense.  Huh

Please do the research/reading before posting things that are not correct or worst laughably absurd.

That post where you suggest the doc should obtain "easy" blocks instead of the "hard" ones for example does not sound like
someone with an engineering degree that has been mining for 8 months. There is no ACME brand of
soft chewy blocks. Hashing is not a card game where if you have seen three aces there is only 1 left.

Random is Random. (Im not going to debate which source of random algorithm should be used, thats best left for compiler theory, Don Keene Knuth and the NSA to argue over).

little pool vs big pool is do you want 1% of 1,000 or .001% of 1,000,000?

If you don't know, ask a question like "Why are the blocks taking longer to solve?" or "Can we pick easy vs hard blocks?"

or even better look back through the old posts. where these questions have been asked and answered over and over again.

Mining is now at the stage where all the easy gold laying on the ground has been claimed. Only people willing to
invest time/money and/or have the patience to stick it out should be involved.

==
Edit - corrected name, Don Knuth instead of what I listed as Don Keene.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Computer_Programming


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