NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[marcus03]

nexern, marcus, minus - What are the ETA's of your clients?

2014.

Since it's January, would you happen to have a better estimate?

Sorry. I do not believe in ETAs. They do not work.

[1714898957]

1714898957

[jl777]

I think the first step is for someone to get libzerocoin running on a NXT testnet. It is C++ so there is task of getting it so the Java can use it on a cross platform basis. This means some nodes won't be able to run the zeroNXT module until the libzerocoin is ported to Java, but I don't think that is a big issue.

CfB or ricot to figure out how to properly integrate the libzerocoin calls on top of NXT blockchain.

The client side functions sounds like a separate task, so one or two of the client devs to see what it would take to get them implemented.

Probably need BCNext to figure out how to cleverly generate the magic prime numbers without anybody being able to store it.

With a divide and conquer approach, we might be able to get zerocoin functionality for NXT before zerocoin!

James

[ChuckOne]

That transformation, I would like to see. Any resources?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_knapsack_problems

Well, I was asking for the transformation of 'nobody can map input transactions to output transactions' to a knapsack.

Maybe, I am a bit rusty when it comes to theoretical computer science. Let's flush my brain a bit.

I don't know why splitting up larger transactions into smaller chunks couldn't be a valid way to fulfill larger transactions in the long run without any traces?

Let me give you an example:

Let's assume, we have a secure way to make transactions from one account to another. For instance, via a escrow account.
w, x, y, z are balances of the respective accounts; t1, t2 are points in time

Code:

t1 | t2
-----------
w  | w + 10
x  | x - 5
y  | y - 10
z  | z + 5

Who paid what to whom? I can't tell. Maybe, anyone else can.

One could say, well this example is really artificial and a real transaction graph is actually sparse with completely different amounts. So you actually get something like that:

Code:

t1 | t2
-----------
x1 | x1 + 100
x2 | x2
x3 | x3
x4 | x4
x5 | x5 - 100
x6 | x6
x7 | x7 + 2000
x8 | x8
x9 | x9 - 2000

Well, that is why I ask why splitting up larger transaction in to smaller pieces in order to cover them up into the masses. In this case, if you really want to transfer money anonymously from one account to another you must either wait or pay a variable fee. The variable fee results from dismissing the remainder of a larger transaction if you aren't willing to wait for the completion.

[DLXS]

hehe no need, better spend those NXT in some project ! I studied computer science but never worked as. Therefore I can follow the thread til u talk about specific things from dev side and I enjoy it
I know you are doing the best you can, I'm happy you read my suggestion and if it can make a 0.0001% better then even more happy I believe in this that's why I congratulated you all at the end of my post for your hard job

How pity. You should have tried it. It's one of best professions I can think of. (IMHO)

I love it. hat's why I read everything here hehehe I don't work as an engineer only because my income is much higher with my current job. /Offtopic!

[bitcoinpaul]

regarding the mixing.

BCNext once said:

Nxt is being developed with payment privacy in mind.  I have not revealed details yet, but I can say that there is a special account in Nxt (recipient #0), later it will be used for advanced features (mixing, escrow, etc.)

- may be now is time for him to reveal details (to developers).

Tell us CfB and JL, please.

[xyzzyx]

I just designed and 3d-printed a NXT-keychain

http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/899322nxtkeychain.png

Nice!  

If the STL file is small enough, would you be willing to put the STL on the blockchain as a AM payload?   You know, for history's sake.

[NxtChg]

No reason to pay $70,000 to somebody for a similar idea.

Agree.

It's definitely doable (assuming their math checks out).

What I can gather so far is they base it on a variation of the zero-knowledge proof - some mathematical magic that allows you to prove that you own a secret in multiple ways, thus decoupling one check from another.

So you mint an off-chain coin and then spend it again, this time revealing the secret, so there are no double spends.

It's like having a special challenge-response chip. No point in saving challenge or response and no way of linking several challenge/responses to your chip. Once you spend it, the "chip" is destroyed.

[loopgate88]

I just designed and 3d-printed a NXT-keychain

very nice

[jl777]

Imagine if there was NXTcash, the next form of cash!
zerocoin created a whitepaper http://spar.isi.jhu.edu/~mgreen/ZerocoinOakland.pdf and alpha code that implements it on top of bitcoin.

From what I can tell, there is no reason we can't implement this on top of NXT

However, it is not as simple as cutting and pasting code, it is a project. To do this right, it needs funding and staffing.

If we had a way of converting NXT into NXTcash to spend, it would be a fantastic feature. Most of the NXT stays in normal acct, but if you want to spend some cash on things you would rather be private about (right to privacy anybody), then just convert it to NXTcash and no worries that it can be traced back to you.

This will clearly be a big, significant feature as no other crypto has it. It should dramatically increase the value of NXT.

We have funding available from community fund. Additional bounties have been added to it. I am not sure how much it will cost to get this done. Maybe we need to get project bids? I am not sure if we have the people who can get it done already here, or if we need to recruit.

Either way, we really should get this done.

James

P.S. I put this at the top of the list of desired technical features after official client and account control. Best to use non-overlapping persons whenever possible.

[jl777]

No reason to pay $70,000 to somebody for a similar idea.

Agree.

It's definitely doable (assuming their math checks out).

What I can gather so far is they base it on a zero-knowledge proof - some mathematical magic that allows you to prove that you own a secret in multiple ways, thus decoupling one check from another.

So you mint an off-chain coin and then spend it again, this time revealing the secret, so there are no double spends.

It's like having a special challenge-response chip. No point in saving challenge or response and no way of linking several challenge/responses to your chip. Once you spend it, the "chip" is destroyed.

I am pretty sure their paper was peer reviewed, university profs did the paper

Ian Miers, Christina Garman, Matthew Green, Aviel D. Rubin
The Johns Hopkins University Department of Computer Science, Baltimore,

[SkillRoad]

coinmarketcap must have lost the NXT data feed...   

Yes, we are the last

[Come-from-Beyond]

With a divide and conquer approach, we might be able to get zerocoin functionality for NXT before zerocoin!

I'm not sure it's not a theft...

[ChuckOne]

Regarding privacy, maybe this could help:


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279249.0

Yes, it seems similar to what I suggest. Spending and receiving equal amounts obfuscate who transferred how much to whom.

[NxtChg]

If we had a way of converting NXT into NXTcash to spend, it would be a fantastic feature.

No argument here

[jl777]

With a divide and conquer approach, we might be able to get zerocoin functionality for NXT before zerocoin!

I'm not sure it's not a theft...

Not a theft, they want us to port, they describe exactly how to do it.

They wanted bitcoin to adopt their libzerocoin
They wanted altcoins to adopt their solution
Nobody did, so they were forced to start developing their own coin
They are professors, not really into making new coins

from zerocoin.org:

We will be updating this site soon to include details of our new version described by Matt Green at Real World Crypto 2014

What is Zerocoin?

Zerocoin is a proposed extension to the Bitcoin payment network that adds anonymity to Bitcoin payments. Just as paper currency once gained its value from being redeemable for gold, zerocoins gain their value from being redeemable for bitcoins. We believe that tools such as Zerocoin are necessary as the current Bitcoin payment network does not offer strong privacy protections. The main idea behind Zerocoin is to place anonymity technology into the Bitcoin network itself. This is substantially different from previous anonymization technologies such as “laundries”, since Zerocoin does not rely on a trusted centralized party that can fail or become corrupted.

What makes Zerocoin different from previous approaches:

Zerocoin operates in the Bitcoin network and is implemented as a series of extensions to the existing Bitcoin protocol. This approach means that Zerocoin can be deployed without relying on a central coin issuer or bank (as used in previous e-cash schemes). Moreover, since no single trusted party operates the Zerocoin system, attacks on Zerocoin must take on a substantial fraction of the Bitcoin network.
Zerocoin uses provably secure cryptographic techniques to ensure that Bitcoins cannot be traced. These techniques allow users to conduct transactions on the Bitcoin network while receiving strong mathematical guarantees that the transactions cannot be traced. These guarantees remain in place even if a portion of the Bitcoin network is compromised by an attacker.
Other anonymous cash systems rely on distributing the work of anonymizing users amongst a set of parties. This approach works well if all parties are fully available but can be subject to “denial of service” attacks where a small number of nodes are taken offline. Because Zerocoin is built on top of Bitcoin, it is widely distributed among all the Bitcoin peers, ensuring that the system can remain available even when many nodes are compromised.

[mr_random]

My thinking is that they won't need to do IPO some big guys will fund them.....but maybe they will IPO only to gain acceptance from the community and not fall into the same trap as Ripple.

I agree. Tricky Etherum is tricky.

[Anon136]

With a divide and conquer approach, we might be able to get zerocoin functionality for NXT before zerocoin!

I'm not sure it's not a theft...

its definitely not theft. the idea of theft requires that someone else be deprived of property. copying code doesn't deprive the other person of his copy. i mean maybe its immoral but if so than not because its theft, it would have to be some new moral construct that doesnt have a name yet. something meaning "immoral copying". i vote that we call it flibber.

[Come-from-Beyond]

U have X incoming transactions and Y outgoing ones. If X_i + X_j + X_k == Y_m + Y_n then Big Brother can solve a Knapsack problem and keep tracking links between INs and OUTs using fuzzy logic. At some point in the future he may get more info and increase weights* of some links.

------
* - weights r like probabilities, they range from 0 to 1

[S3MKi]

Did panicsell start?

[cc001]

I just designed and 3d-printed a NXT-keychain

http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/899322nxtkeychain.png

Nice!  

If the STL file is small enough, would you be willing to put the STL on the blockchain as a AM payload?   You know, for history's sake.

Yes, of course I'm willing to do that. The STL is around 250KB, is that small enough? I also could do some design modifications if you have some suggestions. And how would I put that STL on the blockchain?