NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[Anon136]

"completely eliminates the threat of a 51% percent attack" can someone link me to some argument for this. it just doesn't make any sense to me.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=364218.0

ok so i would leave it out of any advertisement since the post its self says

some mechanisms of advanced consensus (still not revealed).

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[msin]

To the whales out there, I have a question.
If the community voted to spend 10 million NXT in community fund on marketing, how would that affect you:

A) Positively, would buy more
B) Neutrally, no change
C) Negatively, would sell part of all of NXT

Any other comments from the "whale" perspective about NXT marketing spending would be appreciated. If you are thinking this way, then odds are that other potential whales are thinking the same way too.

James

I would be absolutely appalled if we spend 10Mil Nxt on marketing, that is utterly ridiculous.  

[MakeBelieve]

It took BTC 1 Year to reach 35000 transactions and 2 Years to reach 235000 transactions.

After 2 months we already had 100.000 Transactions, thats not too bad

That is quite impressive I must say NXT coin is one of the only alt coins which does have potential to become something great.

[jl777]

We should stay with the plan of paying 230k nxt for this campaign and reserve the slots for the next months.
Keep in mind that Ethereum and emunie are on their way... nxt needs to be and stay in people's minds.

While long term etherium and emunie will probably get tangled in legal issues regarding their IPO's lack of formality, in the short term, they are coming out EXACTLY when NXT is vulnerable. Until April, we could actually have slightly less features than emunie.

I know this is a tech oriented community, but I hope you can understand that sometimes it is prudent to substitute marketing/PR for a gap in tech. It is only a temporary thing and maybe it won't be a big deal, but what if people make emunie a giant success and take the thunder away from NXT? Is that a risk we should take when we don't have to?

Marketing as DEFENSIVE weapon. Marketing to make people excited about NXT and wait until April to decide between NXT, emunie and etherium. By then, the lawyers might already be circling one or both of those, so it would be game over in favor of NXT.

That is a nice outcome and well worth taking the chance with 10 million NXT that is inching closer and closer to the incinerator. It is like a use it or lose it vacation time. Let's use it. Now is the perfect time to use these funds. It will make all of our NXT worth that much more in the long run. That is what I want. Don't you?

James

If we are going to be behind other projects on features, shouldn't we be funding bounty projects for advanced features?  I don't see how marketing solves that issue.  

How would any technical bounties speed up deployment of Transparent Forging? That is the key to everything and it is already being worked on by the best man possible.

What technical piece is missing for NXT to be superior to emunie/etherium?

From what I can tell, when nexern is done with client his DNA will be the etherium killer and I will bet that he will get it done before etherium's crowd process gets it done.

So, with Asset Exchange we are pretty much at feature parity with emunie. What is missing? I have not tried the emunie beta, so I have no idea what features they have that NXT doesn't. If it is a super important feature that NXT doesn't have, then certainly, let's get a bounty for it ASAP.

If we have enough tech and not enough marketing, why not balance it out and get the marketing? If emunie and etherium were not doing their IPOs as we speak, I would not feel this sense of urgency. There is only a finite amount of people who will invest in cryptos and they WILL be choosing between emunie, etherium and NXT as these are the second gen cryptos. Some will hedge and split between the three, some will go heavier into one other than the other, etc.

Shouldn't we get as much of the second gen investor funds as we deserve? What percentage does NXT deserve? Are we going to get that percentage? If not, then we need more marketing.

James

[jl777]

To the whales out there, I have a question.
If the community voted to spend 10 million NXT in community fund on marketing, how would that affect you:

A) Positively, would buy more
B) Neutrally, no change
C) Negatively, would sell part of all of NXT

Any other comments from the "whale" perspective about NXT marketing spending would be appreciated. If you are thinking this way, then odds are that other potential whales are thinking the same way too.

James

I would be absolutely appalled if we spend 10Mil Nxt on marketing, that is utterly ridiculous.  

Over 1 year
Did you not see the value in having people at the trade show? That costs money.

[jkoil]

3. every "skill"      has x votes    (                      ? ? ? ?                            )

The example for the 3rd one is from groups, where skilled people, experts had
more weight in their votes than others.

In global NXTsystem is no persons, no trusted persons, therefore no skilled persons either.
Just NXTs and accounts. Unless there will be built a method to give identifications
to accounts (...which cannot be gamed:).

Excuse me? Next version of NRS, for example, u'll be setuping from link given to u not by some acc, but by Jean-Luc with his syle and PGP keys (and, may be installing software only in second+ row of installators to check by calmness that everything is alright), won't u? U can't get rid of relying and trusting completely (some last steps of Land of Mistrust is to write your own Java-compilator, cos any other could be compromised). As simpe as that for any kind of decision. If u're dev, u'll be collecting opinions and points of wished features, discussing pros and contras and then writing code.

U're taking decisions, u're evaluating the disposition. No one have to vote to pick correct version of NRS for u.

In decentralized system there're still creators and consumers. Developers and users. But chains of trust not end at single center of power, in who u need to have unlimited trust. Decentralized system more stable.

srry, I don't get it ...
The 3rd one was not about NRS, just about a mechanism, which allows some experts having more votes than common people.
E.g. in real life some company decides to buy new IT services. IT experts have 10 votes, clerks 3, others 1.
I just meant that I don't know how that would be implemented in NXTsystem, coz we don't know the skills, which are behind the accounts.

[pandaisftw]

"completely eliminates the threat of a 51% percent attack" can someone link me to some argument for this. it just doesn't make any sense to me.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=364218.0

ok so i would leave it out of any advertisement since the post its self says

some mechanisms of advanced consensus (still not revealed).

I assume what he means by "still not revealed" is that they know what to do, but they aren't going to tell everyone about it, as this is NXT's true key to establishing dominance over NXT clones. Clones can clone NXT all they want, but unless they know how Transparent Forging works, they will have nothing on NXT.

But give me a moment, I will think of something to replace that line, just in case.

[jl777]

To the whales out there, I have a question.
If the community voted to spend 10 million NXT in community fund on marketing, how would that affect you:

A) Positively, would buy more
B) Neutrally, no change
C) Negatively, would sell part of all of NXT

Any other comments from the "whale" perspective about NXT marketing spending would be appreciated. If you are thinking this way, then odds are that other potential whales are thinking the same way too.

James

I would be absolutely appalled if we spend 10Mil Nxt on marketing, that is utterly ridiculous.  

If we want NXT to get to .01 BTC, we will have to spend money on marketing. There is no way around it. If we like it to be around .0001 BTC, then we can stop all marketing now.

What price do you want NXT to get to? Do you think it will get there without spending money on marketing, especially when there are already two significant competitors that are spending a lot on marketing?

Marketing it a battle for mindshare. If people don't know about NXT and all they hear and see are emunie and etherium, how will NXT price get to .01 BTC?

James

[jkoil]

The 1 minute speech should be tested to some people, which are not familiar to NXT.
Then would be also found, if the "next" (NXT), or even "nexts" (NXT's), causes extra wondering in the heard speech

I don't know about the rest of you, but when I talk about it I call it N.X.T., not "Next". This alleviates any confusion in the language.

yea, that is clearer. tho acronyms are not nice, they may rise more question (which is not always bad).

In the soundcloud example it was pronounced as "next"...

[jl777]

To the whales out there, I have a question.
If the community voted to spend 10 million NXT in community fund on marketing, how would that affect you:

A) Positively, would buy more
B) Neutrally, no change
C) Negatively, would sell part of all of NXT

Any other comments from the "whale" perspective about NXT marketing spending would be appreciated. If you are thinking this way, then odds are that other potential whales are thinking the same way too.

James

I would be absolutely appalled if we spend 10Mil Nxt on marketing, that is utterly ridiculous.  

We have a lot to talk about and present to the world right now as MUCH work has been done and there hasn't been a major advertising effort yet. Okay, so doing some big things now is good. Show all the hard work that's been done. But then, just have enough to keep the stream of information flowing so people who want it can follow on developments. When another or several major milestones are reached, we can have another big marketing effort. The point now is really to build community, meaning dev's and others who can actually help continue to build the foundation and the structure upon it. People with skills and ideas. Price rise is going to be an effect of the advertising, but with out the community building its just a temporary and superficial effect. Blasting away a bunch of money to get all up in peoples face just isn't the right way to do it.

This is EXACTLY why I recommended we try to recruit people with our LTB spots. Marketing is indirect. Get the high quality people on board the NXT team. How many more jean-luc's are out there who will go into the etherium or other projects because they didn't know enough about NXT.

My guess is that a lot of people only know the anti-NXT propaganda. So they wouldn't even consider researching NXT, let along joining the NXT team.

We need to market this community. That is what sold me on NXT's future.

How can we get more and more quality people without a continual effort (money) spent in marketing. Trade shows cost money. Free rasberrys to influential people costs money. Marketing costs money.

WE are in a competitive situation

James

[msin]

How would any technical bounties speed up deployment of Transparent Forging? That is the key to everything and it is already being worked on by the best man possible.

What technical piece is missing for NXT to be superior to emunie/etherium?

From what I can tell, when nexern is done with client his DNA will be the etherium killer and I will bet that he will get it done before etherium's crowd process gets it done.

So, with Asset Exchange we are pretty much at feature parity with emunie. What is missing? I have not tried the emunie beta, so I have no idea what features they have that NXT doesn't. If it is a super important feature that NXT doesn't have, then certainly, let's get a bounty for it ASAP.

If we have enough tech and not enough marketing, why not balance it out and get the marketing? If emunie and etherium were not doing their IPOs as we speak, I would not feel this sense of urgency. There is only a finite amount of people who will invest in cryptos and they WILL be choosing between emunie, etherium and NXT as these are the second gen cryptos. Some will hedge and split between the three, some will go heavier into one other than the other, etc.

Shouldn't we get as much of the second gen investor funds as we deserve? What percentage does NXT deserve? Are we going to get that percentage? If not, then we need more marketing.

James

I guess I just don't get your mind frame.  I work in the silicon valley, marketing campaigns often see very little results, the most effective marketing is organic, grown through user base because of superior feature set, it's all viral.  

Also, please stop talking about the 10Mil being vaporized as the only other option.  We have plenty of time to decide what we want to do.  Spending 10mil (1% of Nxt) on Marketing is just crazy.

[pandaisftw]

revision 2 (tell me if im getting closer)

Ready for whats next? Written from the ground up with brand new source code, nxt is the first truely second generation crypto. By melding short term predictibility with longer term uncertanty, nxt's 100% proof of stake security model opens the flood gates for a torrent of breakthrough innovations. The ability to predict future forging nodes allows forgers to build trust within the community. This trust can be leveraged by merchants to acheve instantly secure transactions or by customers to acheve visa level transaction volumes via transaction clearing performed by forgers before recording transactions in the blockchain. Nxt's 100% proof of stake security model eliminates many of the costs associated with blockchain security that are, with bitcoin, presently born by the savers in the form of inflation. Finally, unlike bitcoin with its limited time block subsidy, there is no arbitrarily selected date far off in the future where nxt's security model will be put to the final test, if nxt works now, it will work always.

Here's my take:

Ready for what's NXT? Written from the ground up, NXT is the first true second generation crypto. NXT's unique 100% Proof of Stake security model provides a platform for breakthrough and disruptive innovations. One of these innovations is known as Transparent Forging. With Transparent Forging, the network is capable of achieving instantly-secure transactions at Visa-level transaction volumes. Additionally, NXT's 100% Proof of Stake model completely eliminates the threat of a 51% percent attack, and does away with the enormous electrical and inflationary costs of blockchain security. With all of it's promised features, NXT provides the best and most secure foundation for users and businesses alike. NXT, the Next Generation of Cryptocurrency.

Take 2:

Ready for what's NXT? Written from the ground up, NXT is the first true second generation crypto. NXT's unique 100% Proof of Stake security model provides a platform for breakthrough and disruptive innovations. One of these innovations is known as Transparent Forging. With Transparent Forging, the network is capable of achieving instantly-secure transactions at Visa-level transaction volumes. Additionally, NXT's 100% Proof of Stake model completely eliminates the threat of hash-power centralization, and does away with the enormous electrical and inflationary costs of blockchain security. With all of it's promised features, NXT provides the best and most secure foundation for users and businesses alike. NXT, the Next Generation of Cryptocurrency.


Basically, each week we will substitute a different feature in the the paragraph above, so the listeners can learn more and more about NXT over time, instead of all at once.

[DeadlyEskimo]

10 Mil on marketing is to much.

 Is there a draft of costs made up for the marketing ideas that are on the table as of now?

[jl777]

To the whales out there, I have a question.
If the community voted to spend 10 million NXT in community fund on marketing, how would that affect you:

A) Positively, would buy more
B) Neutrally, no change
C) Negatively, would sell part of all of NXT

Any other comments from the "whale" perspective about NXT marketing spending would be appreciated. If you are thinking this way, then odds are that other potential whales are thinking the same way too.

James

I would be absolutely appalled if we spend 10Mil Nxt on marketing, that is utterly ridiculous.  

We have a lot to talk about and present to the world right now as MUCH work has been done and there hasn't been a major advertising effort yet. Okay, so doing some big things now is good. Show all the hard work that's been done. But then, just have enough to keep the stream of information flowing so people who want it can follow on developments. (Joesfox's planned Nxt podcast for example) When another or several major milestones are reached, we can have another big marketing effort. The point now is really to build community, meaning dev's and others who can actually help continue to build the foundation and the structure upon it. People with skills and ideas. Price rise is going to be an effect of the advertising, but with out the community building its just a temporary and superficial effect. Blasting away a bunch of money to get all up in peoples face just isn't the right way to do it.

TLDR: advertising has it's place, but most of those funds should be used for bounties to actually build Nxt. Real growth comes from having a good (or in Nxt case, revolutionary) product.

Edit: More specifically, any marketing efforts really should be geared to pique interest and attract some talent.

Is there a list of all the things that are needed to "actually build NXT"? Maybe I am totally offbase, but it seems that within a couple of months we get the killer TF functionality, plus all the other nice functionality. Clients much sooner, etc.

Whenever I lobby for spending on marketing, people refuse and say we need so much more tech. OK, please tell me what tech we need? Let's make a list of all the tech we need, come up with reasonable bounties that assures they get done, use the rest for marketing budget for the year.

We then propose the COMBINED tech/marketing list for a vote. We can do both, tech and marketing. Let's just not wait until April comes and CfB sends the 10 million to genesis, because he will if community has no consensus!

James

[jkoil]

In global NXTsystem is no persons, no trusted persons, therefore no skilled persons either.

If we find a method to vote reliably, we can then implement a 2-tier system on top of it, where you delegate your votes for a particular matter to an expert.

You can say that "for this particular technical issue I delegate my vote to Jean-Luc".

But we need to find a reliable voting mechanism first.

"reliable voting mechanism"  ... do you mean a reliable implementation,
not this current question about "1 vote = 1 NXT, or 1 vote = 1 acc, or 1 vote = f( NXT, acc, ...)" discussion?
 

[msin]

To the whales out there, I have a question.
If the community voted to spend 10 million NXT in community fund on marketing, how would that affect you:

A) Positively, would buy more
B) Neutrally, no change
C) Negatively, would sell part of all of NXT

Any other comments from the "whale" perspective about NXT marketing spending would be appreciated. If you are thinking this way, then odds are that other potential whales are thinking the same way too.

James

I would be absolutely appalled if we spend 10Mil Nxt on marketing, that is utterly ridiculous.  

Over 1 year
Did you not see the value in having people at the trade show? That costs money.

Who do you think attends trade shows?  It's people and organizations that use Bitcoin, not a foundation of Bitcoin itself.  If we develop usable API's, Features, Marketplace, etc.. then Nxt will be used by more people and implemented into more technologies/companies.  The only marketing we should be considering using the 10Mil Nxt is to give 100,000 people 100Nxt, that would be far more effective than spending on marketing campaigns.  

Marketing is the antithesis of crypto credibility, developers will think Nxt is some cheesy marketing ploy, not a legit crypto currency.  I'm sure you work in marketing, because of your enthusiasm, but as someone who has been a part of many startups to IPO's (the biggest out there), marketing is best spread through your user base.

[salsacz]

did this trade wait 6 days for manual transfer to bter?
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=15770669150703653581

[jl777]

How would any technical bounties speed up deployment of Transparent Forging? That is the key to everything and it is already being worked on by the best man possible.

What technical piece is missing for NXT to be superior to emunie/etherium?

From what I can tell, when nexern is done with client his DNA will be the etherium killer and I will bet that he will get it done before etherium's crowd process gets it done.

So, with Asset Exchange we are pretty much at feature parity with emunie. What is missing? I have not tried the emunie beta, so I have no idea what features they have that NXT doesn't. If it is a super important feature that NXT doesn't have, then certainly, let's get a bounty for it ASAP.

If we have enough tech and not enough marketing, why not balance it out and get the marketing? If emunie and etherium were not doing their IPOs as we speak, I would not feel this sense of urgency. There is only a finite amount of people who will invest in cryptos and they WILL be choosing between emunie, etherium and NXT as these are the second gen cryptos. Some will hedge and split between the three, some will go heavier into one other than the other, etc.

Shouldn't we get as much of the second gen investor funds as we deserve? What percentage does NXT deserve? Are we going to get that percentage? If not, then we need more marketing.

James

I guess I just don't get your mind frame.  I work in the silicon valley, marketing campaigns often see very little results, the most effective marketing is organic, grown through user base because of superior feature set, it's all viral.  

Also, please stop talking about the 10Mil being vaporized as the only other option.  We have plenty of time to decide what we want to do.  Spending 10mil (1% of Nxt) on Marketing is just crazy.

Nearly one month has gone by and we are no closer to consensus. I am very concerned, not just for losing 10 million NXT, but the message that sends to the world.

OK, so lets do tech, lets do organic marketing. Is organic marketing free? Maybe second gen crypto won't exactly follow the Silicon valley model. I am not some marketing dweeb, I am a technical guy with some marketing experience.

I see risk for NXT due to competition and when there is competition, even a superior feature set loses if the competition has strong marketing. Are you saying that Microsoft Windows (not from Silicon Valley) was the better OS than Apple's (from Silicon Valley)?

Without competition, the organic approach is fine. Most Silicon valley organic marketing successes happen in the absence of strong competition because they come up with an entirely new product. Now, is emunie and etherium strong competition? I'm not sure. I think there is a chance they might be.

James

[msin]

To the whales out there, I have a question.
If the community voted to spend 10 million NXT in community fund on marketing, how would that affect you:

A) Positively, would buy more
B) Neutrally, no change
C) Negatively, would sell part of all of NXT

Any other comments from the "whale" perspective about NXT marketing spending would be appreciated. If you are thinking this way, then odds are that other potential whales are thinking the same way too.

James

I would be absolutely appalled if we spend 10Mil Nxt on marketing, that is utterly ridiculous.  

We have a lot to talk about and present to the world right now as MUCH work has been done and there hasn't been a major advertising effort yet. Okay, so doing some big things now is good. Show all the hard work that's been done. But then, just have enough to keep the stream of information flowing so people who want it can follow on developments. (Joesfox's planned Nxt podcast for example) When another or several major milestones are reached, we can have another big marketing effort. The point now is really to build community, meaning dev's and others who can actually help continue to build the foundation and the structure upon it. People with skills and ideas. Price rise is going to be an effect of the advertising, but with out the community building its just a temporary and superficial effect. Blasting away a bunch of money to get all up in peoples face just isn't the right way to do it.

TLDR: advertising has it's place, but most of those funds should be used for bounties to actually build Nxt. Real growth comes from having a good (or in Nxt case, revolutionary) product.

Edit: More specifically, any marketing efforts really should be geared to pique interest and attract some talent.

Is there a list of all the things that are needed to "actually build NXT"? Maybe I am totally offbase, but it seems that within a couple of months we get the killer TF functionality, plus all the other nice functionality. Clients much sooner, etc.

Whenever I lobby for spending on marketing, people refuse and say we need so much more tech. OK, please tell me what tech we need? Let's make a list of all the tech we need, come up with reasonable bounties that assures they get done, use the rest for marketing budget for the year.

We then propose the COMBINED tech/marketing list for a vote. We can do both, tech and marketing. Let's just not wait until April comes and CfB sends the 10 million to genesis, because he will if community has no consensus!

James

Let's cool it on the marketing talk for now.  I would say you are not totally offbase, but need to think about this realistically.  We use bounties as an incentive for people to develop new and innovative projects, web tools, features, etc... We've already talked about giving 3Mil to marketing, which is more than enough to market new features as they are released.

[pandaisftw]

This is EXACTLY why I recommended we try to recruit people with our LTB spots. Marketing is indirect. Get the high quality people on board the NXT team. How many more jean-luc's are out there who will go into the etherium or other projects because they didn't know enough about NXT.

My guess is that a lot of people only know the anti-NXT propaganda. So they wouldn't even consider researching NXT, let along joining the NXT team.

We need to market this community. That is what sold me on NXT's future.

I agree with this part. If we're going to market, our target audience should ideally be two types of people: 1) End users, of course, but more importantly 2) skilled developers and businessmen.

NXT's strength is decentralization, and if we market to these type of people 2), they will see that they have a golden opportunity in the NXT ecosystem to contribute and make a name for themselves. And when they do, NXT's community will grow. Eth's and MSC, etc. single group of devs can only do so much at a time. NXT's group of dev's will only grow in time and eventually outpace the best other coins can do with our sheer volume of talent.

So if we do marketing, I believe marketing right now to get skilled people on-board is a good idea. Price increases will simply be a side-effect of the productivity the new talent brings in.