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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2756461 times)
BrianNowhere
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March 06, 2014, 08:52:52 AM
 #41061

...

the transaction fees are still too damn high, forging rewards are way to low & come too slow for all but the richest Nxters.

...

Slow? Maybe. Low? No, everyone gets the same percentage. Anyways, you can't have high forging rewards and low fees.

Well I've been at it over 1 month with 10k NXT and haven't seen a single block. Supposedly I'll get 100 Nxt sometime in the next 11 months but in the meantime it sure seems like a waste of time and the longer I wait the less I believe it. It's not about the Nxt for me, I've given away far more than that, but it makes me concerned for the system as a whole as I don't think many people will bother with forging if this is how it is.

NXT: 4957831430947123625
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instacalm
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March 06, 2014, 08:53:44 AM
 #41062

I don't think many people will bother with forging if this is how it is.

Exactly
pinarello
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March 06, 2014, 08:54:48 AM
 #41063

any date set for launch of AE yet?? or still to be decided?

Nobody seems interested to step up and launch.

I proposed the 13th march, and asked if not some one should step up and take ownership for the launch of AE.

no reactions.


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March 06, 2014, 08:56:18 AM
Last edit: March 06, 2014, 10:32:23 AM by landomata
 #41064

ANNOUNCEMENT


NMAC PRIVATE SHARE PLACEMENT


FINAL SHARE ALLOCATION LIST

pandaisftw  
abctc
I8orre
Jef-Diesel
butterclown
eXtatiC
Shin
swartzfeger
LemonAndFries
Allwelder
Opticarrier
kodtycoon
smaragda
eB101
Damelon
KyLins
rushi
shenjie
voldemort628
redsn0w
stoneone
bezbezbez
xcn
sashsh
Igmaca
Chanc3r
Vega
Rickyjames



NOTE:
1) If you are in the above list please PM me your account number where you want the shares transferred to.

2) When I receive your PM I will reply with your confirmed shares.

3) If I do NOT receive a PM from you before Friday, March 14th, then your share allocation will be forfeited to the next waiting person on the list.

3) PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE THIS POST & MENTION YOUR ACCOUNT NO. IN THIS THREAD AS IT WILL NOT COUNT.  IF THIS IS DONE TWICE I WILL REMOVE YOU FROM THE LIST.

SO PLEASE ONLY PM me....thanks.





Best regards,
Landomata
Secretary
Nxt Mobile Applications Company


P.S:
3rd Tier: 25 million shares


This allocation will be totally sold on the Nxt Asset Exchange.  The shares will be sold on AE launch day.



Eadeqa
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March 06, 2014, 08:58:43 AM
 #41065

...

the transaction fees are still too damn high, forging rewards are way to low & come too slow for all but the richest Nxters.

...

Slow? Maybe. Low? No, everyone gets the same percentage. Anyways, you can't have high forging rewards and low fees.

Well I've been at it over 1 month with 10k NXT and haven't seen a single block. Supposedly I'll get 100 Nxt sometime in the next 11 months but in the meantime it sure seems like a waste of time and the longer I wait the less I believe it. It's not about the Nxt for me, I've given away far more than that, but it makes me concerned for the system as a whole as I don't think many people will bother with forging if this is how it is.


This is weird. One one hand people complain about "fees" being too high, on the other hand they want to make money by "forging" These are contradictory statements.



NXT-GZYP-FMRT-FQ9K-3YQGS
https://nxtforum.org
BrianNowhere
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March 06, 2014, 08:58:47 AM
 #41066

NXT is a great infrastructure for future projects, but by NO MEANS does NXT create economic freedom and most certainly not regardless of socio-economic status. NXT is for people who have money to spare and are computer literate.

Ones NXT gets adopted on a massive scale things WILL get regulated the sh*t out of. Just like every other internet project that gets to big and imposes a risk for the (world) economy and infrastructure.

I love NXT, but please be realistic.  Wink

NXT does create economic freedom by removing our dependence on the ever increasing centralization of PoW blockchain security.  All PoW currencies are vulnerable to a 51% computational attack, which means that any entity that can generate 51% of the network's hashpower controls the economic freedom of the users of the currency.  NXT is immune to computational attacks, because it is secured by its currency.  Anyone holding NXT, big or small, is helping to secure the network.

Anyone who is forging is helping to secure the network. As a "small fry" holding 10k NXT for over a month all the while being told I'm 20 days 1 hour 14 minutes 29 seconds away from generating a block I am having my doubts that many people like me will bother to forge. I really hope this nodecoin thing works out as a way to get normal people forging.

Suit yourself.  Everyone receives the same ROI from forging.  Imo, you'd be better off purchasing more NXT and forging than buying an ASIC/GPU and mining PoW.

Only a small percentage of bitcoin users mine and that appears to work for Bitcoin. My question, which no one has answered yet when I ask it, is whether NXT will survive if the same percentage of users forge as do bitcoiners mine or does POS require more than that?  Has any analysis been done on what percentage of NXTers will be needing to forge for the system to be secure? If someone tells me that a similar ratio to bicoin miners is needed to forge I will shut up about this.

NXT: 4957831430947123625
Uniqueorn
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March 06, 2014, 08:59:52 AM
 #41067

any date set for launch of AE yet?? or still to be decided?

Nobody seems interested to step up and launch.

I proposed the 13th march, and asked if not some one should step up and take ownership for the launch of AE.

no reactions.




At first the best date for a launch seemed to be in the beginning of April, coinciding with the release of BCNext's plan and the AT CIYAM is developing, but given the fact that Mastercoin launches it's AE very soon, I think we should move the date forward.
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March 06, 2014, 09:00:22 AM
 #41068

any date set for launch of AE yet?? or still to be decided?

Nobody seems interested to step up and launch.

I proposed the 13th march, and asked if not some one should step up and take ownership for the launch of AE.

no reactions.


How can there be a "firm" date when CFB make a statement like there are "bugs" in AE?

Unless it's working bug free on testNet there can't be a date.

NXT-GZYP-FMRT-FQ9K-3YQGS
https://nxtforum.org
instacalm
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March 06, 2014, 09:01:13 AM
 #41069

This is weird. One one hand people complain about "fees" being too high, on the other hand they want to make money by "forging" These are contradictory statements.

Well, I guess the point is that there is actually no incentive to secure the network as one is not suitably rewarded by forging. This is a critical issue.
jl777
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March 06, 2014, 09:02:39 AM
 #41070

Current NXT circulation:
1. Buy NXT from initial stakeholder.
2. Register alias / send message / issue asset and pay fee to stakeholder.
3. Goto :1

As I always said, forging was created for stakeholders. You (community) always said that "when we'll have more transactions, fees would be better distributed". False! Forging is not dependent on fee in expected block. The only thing that will change is that stakeholders would get back their sold NXT faster.

Nxt is good platform. It is another P2P software like Bittorent. We need to find another way to prevent spam and get rid of NXT.

Ok.  All fees go to the genesis account.


If you send the fees to the genesis account you will destroy NXT because you will eventually run out of NXT.

With or without pooled forging, people with more NXT will get more NXT by forging.  People should view NXT as non-depreciating mining equipment.  The more NXT you own, the more NXT you will receive.  I'd rather purchase NXT than an ASIC because an ASIC will depreciate and I will earn less and less with my ASIC.  With my NXT, I will always recieve "MY NXT AMOUNT" / 1,000,000,000 NXT x 100% of the network's transaction fees.

The one worrisome thing about this Proof Of Stake concept is that it may very well turn out to be like a game of Risk. Where once a player passes a point where they have  a decisive advantage with troops, they quickly dominate the entire game, becoming more dominant with every battle until soon everyone else is slowly and methodically wiped out, or someone flips the board over, whichever comes first.

It seems like this might happen with something like NXT. The large stakeholders gaining the most out of forging, becoming more powerful with every block they win, achieving something of a compounding interest snowball type effect, until only a few big fish remain, sitting on their fat Jaba the Hut asses for the rest of NXT's existence gobbling up all the NXT while everyone else gives up forging at all; the network degrades until the Whales see the writing on the wall and push the SELL button, making NXT just another addition to the isle of coulda-shoulda-woulda.


Average fees per day is 7855 NXT
When the minimum fee is lowered to 0.1 or 0.01, it will probably go up to around 20000 NXT per day.
Thats one and a half years for 1% to be churned, more like 5 years at current rates.
This is not going to make anybody rich, it is enough to pay for server costs, but not much else.
forging fees are for spam prevention
nobody gets rich collecting spam prevention fees
please stop obsessing over the spam prevention and how it is fair or unfair about who gets the spam fees

If people spent half the effort actually building on NXT that they do complaining about whatever they dont like about it, NXT would be worth a lot more.

Isnt that what we all want? Distribution is what it is. No amount of complaining will change that. However, anybody can step up and start doing useful stuff and get rewarded. Anybody. Even a simple C programmer like me.

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
BrianNowhere
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March 06, 2014, 09:02:48 AM
 #41071

...

the transaction fees are still too damn high, forging rewards are way to low & come too slow for all but the richest Nxters.

...

Slow? Maybe. Low? No, everyone gets the same percentage. Anyways, you can't have high forging rewards and low fees.

Well I've been at it over 1 month with 10k NXT and haven't seen a single block. Supposedly I'll get 100 Nxt sometime in the next 11 months but in the meantime it sure seems like a waste of time and the longer I wait the less I believe it. It's not about the Nxt for me, I've given away far more than that, but it makes me concerned for the system as a whole as I don't think many people will bother with forging if this is how it is.


This is weird. One one hand people complain about "fees" being too high, on the other hand they want to make money by "forging" These are contradictory statements.




As I said, it's not about money, at least for me, but I think it will be for most users. It does not matter if it's contradictory all that matters is if ENOUGH people can be incentivised to forge for the system to work. I don't know what percentage of people will be required to be forging because there's been no mathematical analysis. I want the system to work and that's why it is a concern for me.
& Anyone who says NXT is not about money is lying, but as far as forging rewards go that's not why I bring it up. I would do it for free but I am just one dude.

NXT: 4957831430947123625
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March 06, 2014, 09:03:37 AM
 #41072

I don't think many people will bother with forging if this is how it is.

Exactly

Hi, I would share my witness Wink

I bought 400.000 NXT a month ago and forging. But I got nothing from this Wink

If I bought so many it was to forge some more. But the reward looks low or inexistent. Look like only extra rich can get something.

The TX fee is okay to me, it's helping the coin to spread between forgers. If we reduce this fee, it will even harder to get something from forging.

I don't know the politic about NXT futur, 2200 pages is to high reading for me ^^ but peoples will not help to forge if they have to spend thousands dollars to receive almost nothing.
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March 06, 2014, 09:04:42 AM
 #41073

This is weird. One one hand people complain about "fees" being too high, on the other hand they want to make money by "forging" These are contradictory statements.

Well, I guess the point is that there is actually no incentive to secure the network as one is not suitably rewarded by forging. This is a critical issue.

I believe this is the reason behind the release of 'Nodecoin' and NXTcoins later by jl777. Allowing one to forge coins for minimal computing power giving them incentive to help secure the network.
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March 06, 2014, 09:04:53 AM
 #41074

If people spent half the effort actually building on NXT that they do complaining about whatever they dont like about it, NXT would be worth a lot more.
Isnt that what we all want? Distribution is what it is. No amount of complaining will change that. However, anybody can step up and start doing useful stuff and get rewarded. Anybody. Even a simple C programmer like me.

James, critical input is of extreme importance to any project as well and not to be neglected. It is necessary for improvement.
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March 06, 2014, 09:06:35 AM
 #41075

any date set for launch of AE yet?? or still to be decided?

Nobody seems interested to step up and launch.

I proposed the 13th march, and asked if not some one should step up and take ownership for the launch of AE.

no reactions.




At first the best date for a launch seemed to be in the beginning of April, coinciding with the release of BCNext's plan and the AT CIYAM is developing, but given the fact that Mastercoin launches it's AE very soon, I think we should move the date forward.

If we really want to, we need to test the shit out of NXT AE.

It must be the top priority for everybody here.
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March 06, 2014, 09:07:48 AM
 #41076

...

the transaction fees are still too damn high, forging rewards are way to low & come too slow for all but the richest Nxters.

...

Slow? Maybe. Low? No, everyone gets the same percentage. Anyways, you can't have high forging rewards and low fees.
I estimate that average forging fees per day will triple if we lower the min. fee to 0.1 NXT

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
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March 06, 2014, 09:07:54 AM
 #41077

Anyone likes my idea a Electrum-like passphrase generator to be included in Nxt clients? Today there are two new stories of newbies who had their Nxt stolen because they used a weak password

https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,4316.0.html

Not sure about the Electrum passphrase generator. Offspring does have a passphrase generator since day one. This is the algorithm that generates that passphrase.

Code:
import org.apache.commons.lang3.RandomStringUtils;

private String generatePassphrase() {
    // No space, backslash, newline, tab
    String symbols = "!\"$%^&*()-_=+[{]};:'@#~|,<.>/?"; //$NON-NLS-1$
    String alphaNum = "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ01234567890"; //$NON-NLS-1$
    int low = 70;
    int high = 90;
    Random random = new Random();
    int count = random.nextInt(high - low) + low;
    return RandomStringUtils.random(count, symbols + alphaNum);
}

pinarello
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March 06, 2014, 09:10:08 AM
 #41078

any date set for launch of AE yet?? or still to be decided?

Nobody seems interested to step up and launch.

I proposed the 13th march, and asked if not some one should step up and take ownership for the launch of AE.

no reactions.




At first the best date for a launch seemed to be in the beginning of April, coinciding with the release of BCNext's plan and the AT CIYAM is developing, but given the fact that Mastercoin launches it's AE very soon, I think we should move the date forward.

If we really want to, we need to test the shit out of NXT AE.

It must be the top priority for everybody here.

WE ARE testing it, what do they more want.

AFAIK there is one bug reported and J-L is working on it.

Just throw AE in the water... it will either swim or drown!

best test is production, if it breaks we can fix it.

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March 06, 2014, 09:11:16 AM
 #41079


If the playoffs ended today and only one system could win, I really would have to go with Ripple. The consensus ledger seems to work pretty well, transactions arrive at the speed of email, it's easy to use for regular people and it has the closest thing to a working decentralized exchange going. It may not be 100% decentralized as far as the server side goes, but at the end of the day are regular people (merchants & consumers) really going to care about that? Most people aren't Libertarian. They just want shit to work and be easy to use.

I'm rooting for NXT I really am, but the inventor has rode off into the sunset without saying goodbye & Tonto is leaving soon & while he's here talks in hints & riddles and vague promises of a 3rd plan, transparent forging/1000 TPS is starting to look like it was a pipe dream all along, The Asset Exchange is cool but sounds awfully similar to what Ripple already has, the transaction fees are still too damn high, forging rewards are way to low & come too slow for all but the richest Nxters. Newbs are confused and meanwhile six or seven serious competitors who don't communicate via a mutli-thousand page thread are getting ready to launch similar systems of their own.

I'm really hoping this thing gets pulled together but I am not so sure as i once was. Still HODLING but also HEGDING.

We all knew BCNext's plan was to leave and we all knew that Come-from-Beyond was only on contract until April.  NXT's asset exchange is different than Ripple's gateway system.  Ripple's gateways require that you "trust" a single operator.  The gateways James is working on are multi-sig.  I agree the tx fees are too high.  In Ripple, there are no forging rewards.  You receive nothing for running a rippled server.
You get about 10 gigs a month in ripple data by running rippled!
If you ever stop running it, it takes forever to sync up again.

Ripple has a minimal spam prevention fee of something like  .0000001 XRP. This is burned. Maybe that is what we should do? It would shrink the overall supply and then nobody can complain that the rich are getting richer (even though they are earning the same rate as everyone else and the argument doesnt really have merit)

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
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March 06, 2014, 09:11:30 AM
 #41080

Forging is just a TINY cherry. It's not even worth it, unless at some point NXT becomes very valuable. To present NXT's forging as some great addition is just unreal.

And even if you had a ton of NXT in your position to make it worthwile - in the mean time while you're forging the reality should be that you should be transacting (so you're paying fees). In which case forging would be something to get back some of the fees you paid. Zero sum game? Transactions should be the real barometer of how well it's going, not freaking forging. Stop talking about forging like it's some big deal.
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