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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2761351 times)
BrianNowhere
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March 08, 2014, 06:56:14 PM
 #41981


IMHO I think mixing stands a high chance of being made illegal in the future. Tread with caution.

I struggle to see how they would be able to define a "mixer". If they outlaw a certain type, just make another slightly modified one.
They would have to downright outlaw anonymity then...

Law is very much the art of defining things and it is done with near mathematical precision using language. There's no reason in the world that legislation couldn't be crafted defining what mixing is and then declaring it as an illegal activity in the interest of national security.

In the future there will probably be whole departments dedicated to this sort of thing. I believe it's important to play life like chess and look six or so steps ahead so an unforseen knight or Bishop doesn't come along and fuck you up the ass.

I am a pragmatist. I try to separate what I want to happen from what I believe is going to happen.

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March 08, 2014, 06:57:06 PM
 #41982

Found an interesting link. Nxt community became a victim of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringelmann_effect, IMHO.

This is why the military stratifies into organized groups: a single soldier is assigned a duty or task within a team, at team is assigned a duty or task within a platoon, a platoon is assigned a duty or task within a company, ETC...

If coordinated and disciplined, a large group will have a weakness in mobilization time compared to an individual, but carry a lot more momentum and capacity to do work. And It is possible and KEY in large group settings to still maintain a  sense of individualism by tasking and setting expectations for individuals and clearly defining these tasks and expectations.

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March 08, 2014, 06:59:08 PM
 #41983

Found an interesting link. Nxt community became a victim of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringelmann_effect, IMHO.

This is why the military stratifies into organized groups: a single soldier is assigned a duty or task within a team, at team is assigned a duty or task within a platoon, a platoon is assigned a duty or task within a company, ETC...

If coordinated and disciplined, a large group will have a weakness in mobilization time compared to an individual, but carry a lot more momentum and capacity to do work. And It is possible and KEY in large group settings to still maintain a  sense of individualism by tasking and setting expectations for individuals and clearly defining these tasks and expectations.



Ego is the enemy of order. Organization is the remedy. -Brian Nowhere

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rriky92
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March 08, 2014, 07:03:39 PM
 #41984

New iNxt version 1.0.8 in AppStore

Changelog:
New exchange:Cryptsy, Poloniex
Now exchange are sorted for Volume (03/03/14)
App now uses POST instead of GET (more secure)
New API to know if account is forging
Bug fix


Download link:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/inxt/id802351888?l=it&ls=1&mt=8


Donations:
4894174904569783391
BrianNowhere
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March 08, 2014, 07:07:12 PM
 #41985

So it is about TPS (or TPM).

Some random thoughts:
Should we aim high and make TPS one of the big distinction form other crypto currencies? Are we realistic with such a high TPS - do we really need it? It could be a VISA alternative. Do we get there? Maybe only if great things are made on top of Nxt the next months. Will there be great things on top of Nxt if we are called the next ripple, which is mostly a negative conjunction in the crypto world? Do we ever get there when we cannot market the super-decentralized-idea, raspberryPis and nice things? Are we the business solution of crypto currencies? Do businesses need cryptos? The business world is still very hesitated in regards to crypto currencies - if we fail in the business world in the next month and decided today to go this route, Nxt would be dead? How realistic is it to establish Nxt big in the business world? Are there other possibilities with ultra hight TPS, if not business related? Can we aim for both worlds? Maybe 200 TPS? (Could parallel blockchains help?) Can we aim high with all the other stuff without hight TPS?

How important is ultra hight TPS? What are your opinions? What did I forgot?

I want a big discussion about this.

The system that provides the fastest transactions securely will surpass Bitcoin as the number once currency. TF and high TPS is the #1 reason for the recent surge in interest in NXT in my opinion. In fact many people think it's already implemented and are out there talking around 'the water cooler' about this. The other factor will be easy FIAT conversion, which means being somewhat friendly to the banking system. Ease of use for regular people is also very very important. Ripple is beating NXT already in all of these areas. So to beat ripple and the others NXT needs to win on these fronts AND be more decentralized and free-standing.

The real question is if the goal is for NXT to be the currency that takes Bitcoin's place, or if it's happy as a 2nd or 3rd tier system that co-exists with other Alt currencies and becomes known as merely a decentralized platform to trade your fake money for different fake money that no one wants or needs or can use except for speculation. Once the current coin boom ends there will probably be a few cryptos that survive and interest in exchanges will die down. People may exchange real world assets with the AE but it's really hard to get people to change old habits. And unless AE gets accepted by the banking system AND the government, centralized exchanges will still be needed for FIAT conversion. The one way around that problem is to be so awesome as a form of currency that easy conversion to FIAT is not needed. That means popular usage amongst buyers, suppliers and consumers. Then everyone can HODL their NXT and not worry about converting. Volatility/Stability is also an issue here, where BTC is obviously lacking.

There's a VERY limited amount of people who dream about issuing their own currency or starting an IPO or even investing in one, but EVERYBODY needs to spend money and EVERYBODY would consider using an alternative that works easier and better than credit and debit cards and also protects against identity theft. EVERYONE also needs a way to perform fast, secure MICRO-TRANSACTIONS on the internet. Being able to quickly send .25 can potentially solve music and movie piracy, revive the online newspapers and allow people to monetize internet content.

Once these important fronts are won, then people might start looking more closely at the other features, such as AE, Aliasing, etc. But if no one is using NXT for the everyday stuff, no one may discover them or they will discover them on another platform like Ripple, Ethereum, EMunie etc. It's a very darwinian thing going on right now. The fittest will survive.

My two cents, or should I say .5 NXT


I don't know. It depends on why people want a fast transaction. If the sole reason is for point of purchase sales slow transaction speed of the network could potentially be overcome be other means. I think that the overall structure of NXT allows for more responsiveness and flexibility of use, and that fact will allow for people to identify more innovative ways to solve problems. NXT has more uses than Bitcoin does. This is what we have to make people aware of. This is the strength of NXT, and should be the focal selling point.

Ripple (which puts these selling points first as well) has been around longer than Bitcoin or at least nearly as long I believe. Which one is getting more attention? It's the one that is known for it's potential to revolutionize remittance and payments. It's the sexiest feature and I believe it is downplayed at our peril.


I agree that it is an attractive feature, but I think that there may be other ways for NXT users to accomplish instant point of purchase transactions without the network being able to accomplish instant transactions. Unless there is another reason for needing the network to have these types of transaction speeds, Point of purchase transaction speed could possibly be accomplished by other means.

For example, prepaid credit cards. If it were possible to load a prepaid credit card from a NXT account and use the card at point of purchase, there would be the one loading transaction that may take a while, but he point of purchase transactions would be like credit card transactions.

If point of purchase is the only reason for needing high speed transactions, there may be more efficient solutions than trying to speed up network transactions.

It really boils down to who the target is when it comes to marketing. The Ripple approach is more geared toward the individual user; which can be an expensive and time consuming approach. By taking the approach of marketing to businesses (like credit card/ ach providers) it gives the business some of the workload in spreading the usage of their product. Some may argue that this marketing strategy is contrary to decentralization, But businesses would have the same desire for a decentralized platform to engage in business as individuals do.

Bitcoin also has a solution to the slow transition speeds which is off chain processing ie: Centralization and trust. If Bitcoin and NXT use similar approaches to solving this problem then NXT loses an important advantage.

I'm not sure if "loading" pre-paid credit cards are possible except for being a cosmetics/perception sort of thing. It's still just a public key and a private key and needs to be confirmed via the block-chain.

I am very much hoping for the target to be everyone, everywhere. IMHO the best way to attract new customers is with the stuff that's easiest to understand and that is useful in everyday life for everyday people. "Come for the instant transactions, stay for the AE."

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Emule
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March 08, 2014, 07:09:09 PM
 #41986

Found an interesting link. Nxt community became a victim of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringelmann_effect, IMHO.


I shall tell you what is wrong in this community!

If you pay one person 40,000 NXT /month for stealing more nxt and sit on his ass whole day typing crap that get us nowhere, and hard working members getting nothing

what do you think other members will do? Right nothing than waiting to sell out and leave nxt behind


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March 08, 2014, 07:10:20 PM
 #41987

Guys, review this - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=316104.0 - plz. I don't want to implement it and then see that the idea is flawed. Would be great if u did it ASAP.

Man I just typed out a huge response as to why this doesn't make any sense and in so doing realized why it makes sense. That is brilliant. Yes it makes perfect sense. Though you dont need a 24 hour limitation. You only need to time limit it to as many blocks as we expect a merchant to need in order to feel secure. 6 maybe 10. 24 hour time lock would allow you to do thinks like buy your own private island with an instantly secure transaction but there is a tradeoff there. is it really worth locking people out of spending their funds for a full 24 hours just so a couple of guys who do HUGE transactions can feel instantly secure. Or is the better trade off to not let people make instantly secure HUGE transactions but also not have to have their nxt locked away for so long.

*edit* note that its still vulnerable against an attempted quintuple spend attack Cheesy.

I agree, its a great idea to hold NXT for instant transactions, I just put a response in the linked thread to see why it can't be done using a reserve balance on the normal account otherwise we have further complexity for the user.

also note that transparent forging would have to be proven first before this could be proven to be 100% secure.

I do not think both relate to much to each other. Instant transactions rely on the network distributing unconfirmed transactions faster than the merchant selling.

There is still no such thing as TF. The current implementation of consensus finding is susceptible to 33% attacks.
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March 08, 2014, 07:11:52 PM
 #41988


And you might not want to insult the libertarian community too much. They're a bigger part of crypto community than you probably realize.

Why, what's going to happen to me? Are you going to beat me up? I'm not a libertarian and I have a right to my opinion.
I'm not running for class president.

My age: 46, I own my own business and don't have to commute to and from work.

I'm not a libertarian either. I'm just saying you shouldn't insult people. You said you were a cool guy. You sure haven't been acting like it in any of your responses...

I am pragmatic. I see clearly that ideology and finance need to be separated because finance is math and ideology is opinion.
I am not insulting anyone, only imploring people to not let ideology cloud judgement. I'd say the same sorts of things to a liberal or a communist who tried to inject theirs into this technology.

Cool people are confident enough in themselves not to need validation from others, so your opinion on my coolness is very much irrelevant. You don't know me at all and you never will.

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Jerical13
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March 08, 2014, 07:12:41 PM
 #41989


FinCEN getting involved in cryptocurrency is a huge blow to Bitcoin in the US and NXT as well.   If NXT implements NXTcash as a truly anonymous transfer service, we can expect FinCen to arrest James as a terrorist.

I am only partially joking.
will I get internet access from jail?

James is a machine Grin

looking forward to first delivery of that machine Grin

bla bla bla
https://github.com/jl777/multigateway

and what exactly do i buy with this multigateway what is its purpose, and its centralized

apperently this is of no value for nxt as price is declined even more. actualy i can do nothing with your code.

Actually, from what I understand about it, the code and what it does is pretty smart. It does have several uses and can be implemented in decentralized ways.

Go back to sleep Emule.
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March 08, 2014, 07:15:53 PM
 #41990

Found an interesting link. Nxt community became a victim of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringelmann_effect, IMHO.


I shall tell you what is wrong in this community!

If you pay one person 40,000 NXT /month for stealing more nxt and sit on his ass whole day typing crap that get us nowhere, and hard working members getting nothing

what do you think other members will do? Right nothing than waiting to sell out and leave nxt behind



Who gets 40k NXT per month? Cheesy

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March 08, 2014, 07:16:01 PM
 #41991


IMHO I think mixing stands a high chance of being made illegal in the future. Tread with caution.

I struggle to see how they would be able to define a "mixer". If they outlaw a certain type, just make another slighty modified one.
They would have to downright outlaw anonymity then...

I agree... if I pay in cash... no one Id's me..

Mixed transactions will 'stop' some parties transacting through the mixers e.g. businesses because of the legislation applies to them.

Governments might come after the 'mixer' because of the use it is put to - they don't like ToR for example.

Is a mixer 'illegal' - it is if YOU use it for a transaction that it is illegal for YOU to perform in this way e.g. where you must by law have full KYC of the buyer or seller.

Is the mixer a problem where the law doesn't proscribe the buyer and seller are fully identified... No
Is the mixer at fault because its used for illegal transactions - if you knowingly aid criminal activity using the mixer - Yes
If the mixer is simply used to protect an individuals privacy on a public block chain - I don't know - I would argue 'Not'

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March 08, 2014, 07:16:23 PM
 #41992

Guys, review this - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=316104.0 - plz. I don't want to implement it and then see that the idea is flawed. Would be great if u did it ASAP.

I think we will need instant transaction in future
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March 08, 2014, 07:18:49 PM
 #41993

Hello, I think I is necessary a new API getDeadline(Account) to be used instead of doing all the time "getForging(secretPhrase)".
Is not good to be all the time sending the secretPhrase, just to get the deadline.

Nearly no difference between getForging(secretPhrase) and startForging(secretPhrase), both are "secretPhrase" not safe.

Code:
public final class StartForging extends APIServlet.APIRequestHandler {

    static final StartForging instance = new StartForging();

    private StartForging() {}

    @Override
    JSONStreamAware processRequest(HttpServletRequest req) {

        String secretPhrase = req.getParameter("secretPhrase");
        if (secretPhrase == null) {
            return MISSING_SECRET_PHRASE;
        }

        Generator generator = Generator.startForging(secretPhrase);
        if (generator == null) {
            return UNKNOWN_ACCOUNT;
        }

        JSONObject response = new JSONObject();
        response.put("deadline", generator.getDeadline());
        return response;

    }

    @Override
    boolean requirePost() {
        return true;
    }

}

Code:
public final class GetForging extends APIServlet.APIRequestHandler {

    static final GetForging instance = new GetForging();

    private GetForging() {}

    @Override
    JSONStreamAware processRequest(HttpServletRequest req) {

        String secretPhrase = req.getParameter("secretPhrase");
        if (secretPhrase == null) {
            return MISSING_SECRET_PHRASE;
        }
        Account account = Account.getAccount(Crypto.getPublicKey(secretPhrase));
        if (account == null) {
            return UNKNOWN_ACCOUNT;
        }

        Generator generator = Generator.getGenerator(secretPhrase);
        if (generator == null) {
            return NOT_FORGING;
        }

        JSONObject response = new JSONObject();
        response.put("deadline", generator.getDeadline());
        return response;

    }

    @Override
    boolean requirePost() {
        return true;
    }

}

They could do something more simple? Smiley
or is the only way?


I have not reviewed java code but if we can t send passphrase each time that would be great
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March 08, 2014, 07:21:07 PM
 #41994

Guys, review this - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=316104.0 - plz. I don't want to implement it and then see that the idea is flawed. Would be great if u did it ASAP.

sorry - over my head ..


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March 08, 2014, 07:22:25 PM
 #41995

Found an interesting link. Nxt community became a victim of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringelmann_effect, IMHO.

This is why the military stratifies into organized groups: a single soldier is assigned a duty or task within a team, at team is assigned a duty or task within a platoon, a platoon is assigned a duty or task within a company, ETC...

If coordinated and disciplined, a large group will have a weakness in mobilization time compared to an individual, but carry a lot more momentum and capacity to do work. And It is possible and KEY in large group settings to still maintain a  sense of individualism by tasking and setting expectations for individuals and clearly defining these tasks and expectations.



Ego is the enemy of order. Organization is the remedy. -Brian Nowhere

Ego is a tool that can be used to some effect, depending on the ego. Some people just have difficult egos.
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March 08, 2014, 07:24:11 PM
 #41996


IMHO I think mixing stands a high chance of being made illegal in the future. Tread with caution.

I struggle to see how they would be able to define a "mixer". If they outlaw a certain type, just make another slighty modified one.
They would have to downright outlaw anonymity then...

I agree... if I pay in cash... no one Id's me..


This is largely true, but I am applying how cash is legislated (at least here in the U.S) to crypto and I'm pretty certain that setting up a USD mixing service would be stopped immediately and the proprietors would possibly be prosecuted for violating money laundering laws.

No one is going to care about small transactions. But if there's a way to make large amounts of money untraceable (which is also very very difficult to do with cash as well) using crypto-currency then I can guarantee that powerful forces will put a stop to it or at least make it a very dark and dangerous activity to engage in. I'm not risking my freedom so I can buy a beer with my cell phone.

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March 08, 2014, 07:24:27 PM
 #41997

Guys, review this - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=316104.0 - plz. I don't want to implement it and then see that the idea is flawed. Would be great if u did it ASAP.

It makes sense to me. As long as accounts follow the 10% in 24 hours rule I don't see any chance for double spending. It could be vey handy for certain business.
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March 08, 2014, 07:24:30 PM
 #41998

Found an interesting link. Nxt community became a victim of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringelmann_effect, IMHO.


I shall tell you what is wrong in this community!

If you pay one person 40,000 NXT /month for stealing more nxt and sit on his ass whole day typing crap that get us nowhere, and hard working members getting nothing

what do you think other members will do? Right nothing than waiting to sell out and leave nxt behind

When will it get through to your skull that the 40,000 isn't a community payment?
It's done by a private person, and it's his right.
Or are you denying private persons the right to spend where they want to?

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March 08, 2014, 07:25:08 PM
 #41999

Guys, review this - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=316104.0 - plz. I don't want to implement it and then see that the idea is flawed. Would be great if u did it ASAP.

I think we will need instant transaction in future

Me thinks we need them now, since Ripple already has them.

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March 08, 2014, 07:25:41 PM
 #42000

Guys, review this - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=316104.0 - plz. I don't want to implement it and then see that the idea is flawed. Would be great if u did it ASAP.

Man I just typed out a huge response as to why this doesn't make any sense and in so doing realized why it makes sense. That is brilliant. Yes it makes perfect sense. Though you dont need a 24 hour limitation. You only need to time limit it to as many blocks as we expect a merchant to need in order to feel secure. 6 maybe 10. 24 hour time lock would allow you to do thinks like buy your own private island with an instantly secure transaction but there is a tradeoff there. is it really worth locking people out of spending their funds for a full 24 hours just so a couple of guys who do HUGE transactions can feel instantly secure. Or is the better trade off to not let people make instantly secure HUGE transactions but also not have to have their nxt locked away for so long.

*edit* note that its still vulnerable against an attempted quintuple spend attack Cheesy.

I agree, its a great idea to hold NXT for instant transactions, I just put a response in the linked thread to see why it can't be done using a reserve balance on the normal account otherwise we have further complexity for the user.

also note that transparent forging would have to be proven first before this could be proven to be 100% secure.

There is still no such thing as TF.

i am aware of this. that is why i said "transparent forging would have to be proven first before this could be proven to be 100% secure". otherwise we may be protected against finney attacks but still vulnerable to more traditional forms of doublespend i.e. secret chains.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
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