NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[Eadeqa]

I don't believe Brian with 12K nxt ever forger a block (correct me if I am wrong).

My account number is below. I ran an open client 24/7 from the day I opened it,  had over 23K a large part of that time and never forged a single block.

Great.  Doesn't that answer your own question? Not everyone with small amount of nxt is needed as they can't forge anyway.

[instacalm]

I don't believe Brian with 12K nxt ever forger a block (correct me if I am wrong).

My account number is below. I ran an open client 24/7 from the day I opened it,  had over 23K a large part of that time and never forged a single block.

Great.  Doesn't that answer your own question? Not everyone with small amount of nxt is needed as they can't forge anyway.

The frustration of being unable to forge blocks is justified  (and if one actually does forge, it's peanuts). Not only users with a 23k stake dislike this, 100k/200k/300k's do too. I've heard it countless times. I have about 100k NXT and I do not bother forging to earn more Nxt, I only bother forging for the network itself. Without incentive though, I am not the only one who believes this to be a key issue of the network.  Yes yes, I know, nodecoin is supposed to solve this issue, yet that's kind of a workaround.

Reality is that forging is not profitable at all. The problem is that people misunderstand Nxt's forging model as an actual alternative to "mining". Why? Because it was partially marketed this way: I remember this video comparing heavy mining machines in Iceland with a guy on a boat forging Nxt with his phone.

[BrianNowhere]

We don't have pools, but even if we do, we have like 150 people with over 1 million nxt? As long as some of them are forging, no pool is going to forge 10 blocks in a row anytime soon  

150 ppl holding 150 Million is not half of a 1 billion. You need 351 more millionaires to protect the network.
can there never be pools with Nxt? Everything that's going on today is not what will be going on tomorrow.

[Eadeqa]

We don't have pools, but even if we do, we have like 150 people with over 1 million nxt? As long as some of them are forging, no pool is going to forge 10 blocks in a row anytime soon  

150 ppl holding 150 Million is not half of a 1 billion. You need 351 more millionaires to protect the network.
can there never be pools with Nxt? Everything that's going on today is not what will be going on tomorrow.

Why? The rest of billion nxt would be distributed among so many different users, they will never be able to coordinate together to launch a double spending attack (even if individually all are dishonest).

[BrianNowhere]

Reality is that forging is not profitable at all. The problem about the forging model is that people misunderstand it as an actual alternative to "mining".

The problem is also that if 50% of all stake is not "forging" (running open client), the network will be vulnerable to attack. If Nxt becomes too widely distributed it becomes a big problem. The network is self incentivized to stay more centralized with a cadre of very large stakeholders who will protect the network. Meanwhile these large stakeholders will get all the forging rewards.

Nxt should just come out and say don't bother forging unless you have 100K Nxt. The big shareholders will protect you.
That's not what the marketing says.

[BrianNowhere]

Why? The rest of billion nxt would be distributed among so many different users, they will never be able to coordinate together to launch a double spending attack (even if individually all are dishonest).

Not if the people who hold that percentage Nxt are all small stakeholders (wide distribution) who don't bother to run open clients. Then you've got a security problem.

[Eadeqa]

Why? The rest of billion nxt would be distributed among so many different users, they will never be able to coordinate together to launch a double spending attack (even if individually all are dishonest).

Not if the people who hold that percentage Nxt are all small stakeholders (wide distribution) who don't bother to run open clients. Then you've got a security problem.

How would that be? If people with small amount of nxt don't run nodes, the big holders still get to forge most blocks. How has anything changed? You need one person (or a large group all coordinating together) with  more than 500 million nxt or something to generate more than 10 blocks in a row

[BrianNowhere]

Why? The rest of billion nxt would be distributed among so many different users, they will never be able to coordinate together to launch a double spending attack (even if individually all are dishonest).

Not if the people who hold that percentage Nxt are all small stakeholders (wide distribution) who don't bother to run open clients. Then you've got a security problem.

How would that be? If people with small amount of nxt don't run nodes, the big holders still get to forge most blocks. How has anything changed? You need one person (or a large group all coordinating together) with  more than 500 million nxt or something to generate more than 10 blocks in a row

My understanding is that 51% of ALL stake needs to be running open clients AND be good guys. Are you saying that it's only 51% of all
open running clients that need to be good guys?  

In this case if 50% of ALL stake-holders were shut off, then 25.1% of the the remaining stake could bring down Nxt? That seems even worse.

[rdanneskjoldr]

Im sure all the trashtalk of Briannowhere could be locked with one sentence explaining it  mathematically.But people just ignore him.When you solve this he will come with another stupid claim,saying he is legit because he did something for the community.

And dont tell me to be nice with him.I am nice with absolutely everyone, but not with a guy who tries to tilt everyone who is putting much effort here and spend his days creating a bad atmosphere in the thread. I cant believe someone even criticized TwinWinNerD for the escrow, when Brian is just here trying to destroy all your efforts.

[Eadeqa]

Why? The rest of billion nxt would be distributed among so many different users, they will never be able to coordinate together to launch a double spending attack (even if individually all are dishonest).

Not if the people who hold that percentage Nxt are all small stakeholders (wide distribution) who don't bother to run open clients. Then you've got a security problem.

How would that be? If people with small amount of nxt don't run nodes, the big holders still get to forge most blocks. How has anything changed? You need one person (or a large group all coordinating together) with  more than 500 million nxt or something to generate more than 10 blocks in a row

My understanding is that 51% of ALL stake needs to be running open clients AND be good guys.

That's assuming the rest are all dishonest and coordinating together. An impossibility

[DrearyUrbanite]

I don't believe Brian with 12K nxt ever forger a block (correct me if I am wrong).

My account number is below. I ran an open client 24/7 from the day I opened it,  had over 23K a large part of that time and never forged a single block.

Great.  Doesn't that answer your own question? Not everyone with small amount of nxt is needed as they can't forge anyway.

The frustration of being unable to forge blocks is justified  (and if one actually does forge, it's peanuts). Not only users with a 23k stake dislike this, 100k/200k/300k's do too. I've heard it countless times. I have about 100k NXT and I do not bother forging to earn more Nxt, I only bother forging for the network itself. Without incentive though, I am not the only one who believes this to be a key issue of the network.  Yes yes, I know, nodecoin is supposed to solve this issue, yet that's kind of a workaround.

Reality is that forging is not profitable at all. The problem is that people misunderstand Nxt's forging model as an actual alternative to "mining". Why? Because it was partially marketed this way: I remember this video comparing heavy mining machines in Iceland with a guy on a boat forging Nxt with his phone.

I have nearly 100K NXT and forge constantly, not because I expect to make a fortune doing so, but to secure the network, protect my investment, and because it is what a member of the community should do. I find the bellyaching over the lack of rewards from forging nearly as distasteful as the complaining about initial distribution. NXT is an incredible bargain at $.03 so stop bitching and buy some.

[BrianNowhere]

Im sure all the trashtalk of Briannowhere could be locked with one sentence explaining it  mathematically.But people just ignore him.When you solve this he will come with another stupid claim,saying he is legit because he did something for the community.

And dont tell me to be nice with him.I am nice with absolutely everyone, but not with a guy who tries to tilt everyone who is putting much effort here and spend his days creating a bad atmosphere in the thread. I cant believe someone even criticized TwinWinNerD for the escrow, when Brian is just here trying to destroy all your efforts.

Yeah, I'm trying to destroy Nxt. That's why I invested in it. It's people like you who convinced me to stop. I was never into dogecoin but you people could learn a lot from that community.

You guys love emule because there's no substance. I'm the worst person in the world because I ask uncomfortable questions you don't want to face up to.

[Eadeqa]

Im sure all the trashtalk of Briannowhere could be locked with one sentence explaining it  mathematically.But people just ignore him.When you solve this he will come with another stupid claim,saying he is legit because he did something for the community.

And dont tell me to be nice with him.I am nice with absolutely everyone, but not with a guy who tries to tilt everyone who is putting much effort here and spend his days creating a bad atmosphere in the thread. I cant believe someone even criticized TwinWinNerD for the escrow, when Brian is just here trying to destroy all your efforts.

Yeah, I'm trying to destroy Nxt. That's why I invested in it. It's people like you who convinced me to stop. I was never into dogecoin but you people could learn a lot from that community.

You guys love emule because there's no substance. I'm the worst person in the world because I ask uncomfortable questions you don't want to face up to.

I thought you said you were leaving if someone buys rest of your nxt?

[instacalm]

I find the bellyaching over the lack of rewards from forging nearly as distasteful as the complaining about initial distribution. NXT is an incredible bargain at $.03 so stop bitching and buy some.

I am not complaining at all. It is not so much about the reward but more about the lack of incentive to secure the network. To think that users are going to forge merely in order to secure the network, that is wrong. That is (i.e. you and me) the far minority of users.  We've had this important discussion before: the current forging model is potentially a critical issue.

FYI I've been with Nxt for months. Not every critical input is against the project...

[Tercel]

Actually I run many nodes to protect the NXT network. Just becuz I wanna secure it.

An absolutely awesome coin, why not help?

[BrianNowhere]

That's assuming the rest are all dishonest and coordinating together. An impossibility.

If 50% of all stakeholders shut down their clients (bitching at them for whining about not getting rewards doesn't help, they don't read bitcointalk.org)

26% of 1B is 260MM

This is what I want to know. In a nutshell.

If a Malicious person is able to acquire 260MM Nxt (current cost around 7.5MM to 10MM) by using pools or whatever can they bring down Nxt?

How likely is this? It seems possible to me. If it's possible, even if it's unlikely, then Nxt is built on sand and I would not advise
anyone to base their business around it.


C-F-B or Mtchcl (maths guy) could shut me up for all time by giving me a definitive answer here.

[Eadeqa]

I find the bellyaching over the lack of rewards from forging nearly as distasteful as the complaining about initial distribution. NXT is an incredible bargain at $.03 so stop bitching and buy some.

It is not so much about the reward but more about the lack of incentive to secure the network. If you think user's are going to secure the network in order to secure the network, you are wrong.

Once again users with small amount of nxt do nothing to "secure" the network as they can't even forge. All they do is provide bandwidth. Since big holders forge most often, they do have very good reason to run nodes and forge.

[BrianNowhere]

I thought you said you were leaving if someone buys rest of your nxt?

I'll be gone pretty soon don't worry.

[instacalm]

I'll be gone pretty soon don't worry.

Why so negative? There are issues, yes indeed. But no need to be radical about it, imho. The project is going forward day by day and is it not remarkable where it is after just 5 months?

I find the bellyaching over the lack of rewards from forging nearly as distasteful as the complaining about initial distribution. NXT is an incredible bargain at $.03 so stop bitching and buy some.

It is not so much about the reward but more about the lack of incentive to secure the network. If you think user's are going to secure the network in order to secure the network, you are wrong.

Once again users with small amount of nxt do nothing to "secure" the network as they can't even forge. All they do is provide bandwidth. Since big holders forge most often, they do have very good reason to run nodes and forge.

Eadeqa, you perfectly point out the issue of the network.

[DrearyUrbanite]

I find the bellyaching over the lack of rewards from forging nearly as distasteful as the complaining about initial distribution. NXT is an incredible bargain at $.03 so stop bitching and buy some.

I am not complaining at all. It is not so much about the reward but more about the lack of incentive to secure the network. To think that users are going to forge merely in order to secure the network, that is wrong. That is (i.e. you and me) the far minority of users.  We've had this important discussion before: the current forging model is potentially a critical issue.

FYI I've been with Nxt for months. Not every critical input is against the project...

I am not saying that you are complaining but what is the financial incentive to lock the door of your house when you go out? Securing it to protect your investments is enough.