[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[afreer]

I'm kind of concerned about this "Satoshi Roundtable." The cops have been known to create events where they try to get all the people they want to arrest in one place at one time, and...

a bit paranoid aren't we? 

what would they be discussing that is illegal any-ways?

It sounds like the Bilderberg of Crypto.

I bet the face-to-face connections you can make there are invaluable.

Maybe just don't all get on the same plane together

[1714759894]

1714759894

[1714759894]

1714759894

[bigrcanada1]

I'm kind of concerned about this "Satoshi Roundtable." The cops have been known to create events where they try to get all the people they want to arrest in one place at one time, and...

a bit paranoid aren't we? 

what would they be discussing that is illegal any-ways?

It sounds like the Bilderberg of Crypto.

I bet the face-to-face connections you can make there are invaluable.

Maybe just don't all get on the same plane together

lol.  fair enough.  yikes!

[TanteStefana2]

This was the real attempt at trying to lock down BTC amongst a chosen few.  Played out more like a comedy....

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=174620.msg2141063#msg2141063

So are you saying that being invited to the Satoshi Round Table is like being invited to a private place to conspire against the world?

Personally, I would think that'd be a waste of time.

I'm hoping that Evan and Daniel will have a chance to step out of their focus on Dash, and mingle with people to learn instead of to teach (about Dash).  They'll have great conversations with people that are doing things I doubt that Daniel or Evan even know about.  They'll make connections, and get a broader view on what's up in the industry today.  I'm certain they'll come back more inspired than ever, but I doubt they'll come back with a conspiracy to dominate over everyone and control the world's finances, LOL.

[oaxaca]

Reimbursement Proposal for the Dash N Drink Instantx Miami Demo.The team Put in an original proposal to cover the costs of this project. We later resubmitted for a lower amount to expedite payment. There were significant costs associated with designing, building, transporting, and demonstrating this piece of awesomeness. You have to admit, it was a hit!

Below are the itemized expenses which will appear on our TPS report.
--------------------------------------------------------
Extra show charge for electricity and additional space. $750
Additional expenses for soda machine compressor. $200
Additional expenses for paint, paint gun, and thinner. $200
Parking expenses for vehicle and trailer. $150
Mobile Data Used $100
5 PIs and other parts destroyed during testing. $320
Several burnt up power supplies. $100
Hotel Expenses $430

As you can see, the amount requested does not begin to cover actual expenses. We are fine with this.

Please Vote on this important topic

dash-cli mnbudget vote-many 1e477007d555f9f8919ecbe3b4c457b6f269184924771c0117fbb48751bf23d6 yes

[iCEBREAKER]

So much for the idea that Crypty's stolen(?) Dash have already been sold.

It now appears BigVern still has control of 456,501 Dash, and can dump them off any time he feels like it, or the bankruptcy/divorce court compels him to do so.

Problem is that Cryptsy "opened" some wallets,but did not reveal total balances of coins.They cant explain why there are no coins in DASH or DOGE wallet if they were not hacked - they probably converted them to BTC and spent to cover exchange expenses.Because all of these shady things,criminal investigation is necessary.

I investigated blockchain for DASH and DOGE and could not find firm evidences about hack

I found DOGE Cryptsy hot wallet address DU4wp32x4kvHHqnhPXJ1LnzsS48LedJvbi with 120 millions of DOGE still in it.

Did you notice these txs?

$2.16M in Dash (456,501 @0.0081 BTC) http://explorer.dash.org/tx/ba798890d98936115001f69333956b558a4856c162516cb3ab46a6455de7a1eb
$2.05M in DOGE (9.727B @0.00000036 BTC) https://bitinfocharts.com/dogecoin/address/DN27P1saQQ1fYesKP1LHT5MdSXBpgqka85

Yes,I know for that

If you follow where DASH is going you would notice that from big DASH wallet(which address change with each tx) coins are going to address Xqi7sWthYKFPCK3KHcKq8BqY9vMcWy4r3t - Cryptsy hot wallet.

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/address.dws?Xqi7sWthYKFPCK3KHcKq8BqY9vMcWy4r3t.htm

So if anyone hacked Cryptsy DASH wallet why hacker would refill Cryptsy hot wallet regulary?

They know these wallets were not hacked,because people could easily trace their txs which came direct from wallets formed after 29.July.2014.But they cant explain how these wallets are empty and do not want to reveal balances.That is why we need CSI Miami

[tungfa]

Easy Voting ?
please see rango at DashWhale !
 
https://www.dashwhale.org/budget

[emitkirby]

This is why I think this budget proposal system needs work.
Please don't take this as an attempt to derail the good work you have done however.

Where are the receipts. Where is the accountability.
you asked for funding and you got it. Why should you get additional funding due to the fact you misquoted and need further funds.

This isn't a personal attack either. I have no doubt the costs incurred are accurate and the work done on the machine was worth every cent.

There has to be a line drawn, This is where my previous comments come into play. Had we engaged a company who built vending machines every day. Who incorporated Crypto payments into these machines every day. Would we have had these issues?

This is where you say there isn't any one doing this kind of thing. To that all I have to say is.. There is a market to become a business based off the back of these kinds of projects.
If a business misquotes work they need to eat the costs.

You say you aren't a business. Then maybe we should start giving these kinds of jobs to someone who is a business.

Emit.

Reimbursement Proposal for the Dash N Drink Instantx Miami Demo.The team Put in an original proposal to cover the costs of this project. We later resubmitted for a lower amount to expedite payment. There were significant costs associated with designing, building, transporting, and demonstrating this piece of awesomeness. You have to admit, it was a hit!

Below are the itemized expenses which will appear on our TPS report.
--------------------------------------------------------
Extra show charge for electricity and additional space. $750
Additional expenses for soda machine compressor. $200
Additional expenses for paint, paint gun, and thinner. $200
Parking expenses for vehicle and trailer. $150
Mobile Data Used $100
5 PIs and other parts destroyed during testing. $320
Several burnt up power supplies. $100
Hotel Expenses $430

As you can see, the amount requested does not begin to cover actual expenses. We are fine with this.

Please Vote on this important topic

dash-cli mnbudget vote-many 1e477007d555f9f8919ecbe3b4c457b6f269184924771c0117fbb48751bf23d6 yes


http://i66.tinypic.com/rr2tlx.png

[wozzek23]

So are you saying that being invited to the Satoshi Round Table is like being invited to a private place to conspire against the world?

Personally, I would think that'd be a waste of time.

I'm hoping that Evan and Daniel will have a chance to step out of their focus on Dash, and mingle with people to learn instead of to teach (about Dash).  They'll have great conversations with people that are doing things I doubt that Daniel or Evan even know about.  They'll make connections, and get a broader view on what's up in the industry today.  I'm certain they'll come back more inspired than ever, but I doubt they'll come back with a conspiracy to dominate over everyone and control the world's finances, LOL.

I wouldn't so easily dismiss the Bilderberg of Crypto concerns. All of us are just people with so many flaws and, as the Bitcoin disturbances among its key people has shown, big egos clash nastily. You may "doubt they'll come back with a conspiracy to dominate over everyone and control the world's finances," and you're correct if you're referring to Evan and Daniel but what crypto is doing is precisely that: an attempt to fundamentally change the world of finances and to, ultimately, snatch the control over the world from the The Financial Crime Cartel™ and its claws...

These people, The Financial Crime Cartel™ (TFCC) and its best buddies, the military-industrial-media-spying complex have no qualms when "they killed men and have ordered men to be killed," but not in a gentlemanly, in comparison, Mafia way, but they go and kill millions in many a defenseless, blameless country thousands of miles away for one reason only: to make themselves and their friends rich beyond belief. The rest is just a smokescreen obscuring the bloody racket. Take the power of the (collective) purse from them and you will have destroyed a well-oiled pillaging & killing, most destructive murderous, money making machine the world has ever seen.

So the crypto, with DASH being its brightest star still under the radar, is at the same time the only REAL danger TFCC et.al. are facing perhaps less than a decade from now (rest assured, they will not go quietly into the dark chambers of hell from where they seem to have materialized, but will bite, and will bite hard, chopping off heads and killing more millions, just to cling on their blood-lust based power) and faces its own problems. No matter how genial the governance idea is, there's a mechanism of inequality embedded in the system: the more masternodes one has, the more income it creates and can, thusly, create even more masternodes, in a much faster, progressive way than someone who has 1 - 2 or 5 MNs.

The gap will widen. 1%, rather 0.1% again, anyone?

So, one day, with DASH replacing the dollar as the border-less world's reserve currency, these masternodes will be worth trillions of today's dollars and our motley crew gathered in the Bilderberg of Crypto will have faced (will have had it) the same power The Financial Crime Cartel™ people are having today. And than, given our shared humanity -- let us admit: most of us calculated how much our DASH holdings would be worth in that scenario -- all the bets are off.

Just my 2 cents. Shrug them at will.

/ "Only the Paranoid Survive" /
 

[tungfa]

So are you saying that being invited to the Satoshi Round Table is like being invited to a private place to conspire against the world?

Personally, I would think that'd be a waste of time.

I'm hoping that Evan and Daniel will have a chance to step out of their focus on Dash, and mingle with people to learn instead of to teach (about Dash).  They'll have great conversations with people that are doing things I doubt that Daniel or Evan even know about.  They'll make connections, and get a broader view on what's up in the industry today.  I'm certain they'll come back more inspired than ever, but I doubt they'll come back with a conspiracy to dominate over everyone and control the world's finances, LOL.

I wouldn't so easily dismiss the Bilderberg of Crypto concerns. All of us are just people with so many flaws and, as the Bitcoin disturbances among its key people has shown, big egos clash nastily. You may "doubt they'll come back with a conspiracy to dominate over everyone and control the world's finances," and you're correct if you're referring to Evan and Daniel but what crypto is doing is precisely that: an attempt to fundamentally change the world of finances and to, ultimately, snatch the control over the world from the The Financial Crime Cartel™ and its claws...

These people, The Financial Crime Cartel™ (TFCC) and its best buddies, the military-industrial-media-spying complex have no qualms when "they killed men and have ordered men to be killed," but not in a gentlemanly, in comparison, Mafia way, but they go and kill millions in many a defenseless, blameless country thousands of miles away for one reason only: to make themselves and their friends rich beyond belief. The rest is just a smokescreen obscuring the bloody racket. Take the power of the (collective) purse from them and you will have destroyed a well-oiled pillaging & killing, most destructive murderous, money making machine the world has ever seen.

So the crypto, with DASH being its brightest star still under the radar, is at the same time the only REAL danger TFCC et.al. are facing perhaps less than a decade from now (rest assured, they will not go quietly into the dark chambers of hell from where they seem to have materialized, but will bite, and will bite hard, chopping off heads and killing more millions, just to cling on their blood-lust based power) and faces its own problems. No matter how genial the governance idea is, there's a mechanism of inequality embedded in the system: the more masternodes one has, the more income it creates and can, thusly, create even more masternodes, in a much faster, progressive way than someone who has 1 - 2 or 5 MNs.

The gap will widen. 1%, rather 0.1% again, anyone?

So, one day, with DASH replacing the dollar as the border-less world's reserve currency, these masternodes will be worth trillions of today's dollars and our motley crew gathered in the Bilderberg of Crypto will have faced (will have had it) the same power The Financial Crime Cartel™ people are having today. And than, given our shared humanity -- let us admit: most of us calculated how much our DASH holdings would be worth in that scenario -- all the bets are off.

Just my 2 cents. Shrug them at will.

/ "Only the Paranoid Survive" /
 

easy there reg "Bilderberg of Crypto"
we are an altcoin with 25 Mill market Cap, that might be much to us but in the end is nothing
if we want to play in the big league (top 3 MarketCap) we have to get involved with the top level of the industry
that is where the big deals are made, (Exchanges, investors, publishers, Payment Providers, Huge Merchants, ....)
but that does not mean you are selling out or conspire for the whales against the shrimp (small holders)
if we hit 200 Mill Market Cap we all smile
correct ?
 

[Macrochip]

can dump them off any time he feels like it, or the bankruptcy/divorce court compels him to do so.

Judge: I hereby sentence you to sell all 456,501 cryptographic tokens known as "DASH" and do whatever the hell you want with the money. I also sentence you to not give the respective amounts back to the people they actually belong to. Next case!"

Yes, makes sense. But only when you're divorced from reality and live in the mind of an ASIC-scammer. Is that your recollection of the Hashfast scam "bankruptcy" proceedings? Must have been the way you dreamed it would go.

[aigeezer]

So are you saying that being invited to the Satoshi Round Table is like being invited to a private place to conspire against the world?

Personally, I would think that'd be a waste of time.

I'm hoping that Evan and Daniel will have a chance to step out of their focus on Dash, and mingle with people to learn instead of to teach (about Dash).  They'll have great conversations with people that are doing things I doubt that Daniel or Evan even know about.  They'll make connections, and get a broader view on what's up in the industry today.  I'm certain they'll come back more inspired than ever, but I doubt they'll come back with a conspiracy to dominate over everyone and control the world's finances, LOL.

I wouldn't so easily dismiss the Bilderberg of Crypto concerns. All of us are just people with so many flaws and, as the Bitcoin disturbances among its key people has shown, big egos clash nastily. You may "doubt they'll come back with a conspiracy to dominate over everyone and control the world's finances," and you're correct if you're referring to Evan and Daniel but what crypto is doing is precisely that: an attempt to fundamentally change the world of finances and to, ultimately, snatch the control over the world from the The Financial Crime Cartel™ and its claws...

These people, The Financial Crime Cartel™ (TFCC) and its best buddies, the military-industrial-media-spying complex have no qualms when "they killed men and have ordered men to be killed," but not in a gentlemanly, in comparison, Mafia way, but they go and kill millions in many a defenseless, blameless country thousands of miles away for one reason only: to make themselves and their friends rich beyond belief. The rest is just a smokescreen obscuring the bloody racket. Take the power of the (collective) purse from them and you will have destroyed a well-oiled pillaging & killing, most destructive murderous, money making machine the world has ever seen.

So the crypto, with DASH being its brightest star still under the radar, is at the same time the only REAL danger TFCC et.al. are facing perhaps less than a decade from now (rest assured, they will not go quietly into the dark chambers of hell from where they seem to have materialized, but will bite, and will bite hard, chopping off heads and killing more millions, just to cling on their blood-lust based power) and faces its own problems. No matter how genial the governance idea is, there's a mechanism of inequality embedded in the system: the more masternodes one has, the more income it creates and can, thusly, create even more masternodes, in a much faster, progressive way than someone who has 1 - 2 or 5 MNs.

The gap will widen. 1%, rather 0.1% again, anyone?

So, one day, with DASH replacing the dollar as the border-less world's reserve currency, these masternodes will be worth trillions of today's dollars and our motley crew gathered in the Bilderberg of Crypto will have faced (will have had it) the same power The Financial Crime Cartel™ people are having today. And than, given our shared humanity -- let us admit: most of us calculated how much our DASH holdings would be worth in that scenario -- all the bets are off.

Just my 2 cents. Shrug them at will.

/ "Only the Paranoid Survive" /
 

Your thoughtful rant resonates with me, although I don't perceive the "Bilderberg concerns" as a literal, immediate one-meeting threat. I'm more concerned about slow, subtle changes in direction of the kind BTC has been experiencing. By way of example, here is fresh spin on the upcoming US election through the lens of BTC - such a maneuver would have been impossible one election cycle back, as BTC was still "invisible": http://www.newsbtc.com/2016/01/31/ashton-kutcher-bitcoin-is-best-hedge-against-a-trump-nomination/ (Aside - I take no position on elections and I am not American).

When powerful people start to notice the existence of DASH they will attempt to push it this way or that or to use it for pushing something else this way or that. Future developments also have to include the possibility that DASH nice guys will not remain nice guys forever (think Vertoe or Hearn).

I think trustless architecture and Open Source code are the best available defenses against the reality that "power corrupts". BTC has the latter (only?), and it is proving not to be sufficient, imho. I don't know how one could protect against a spin-artist using the mere existence of a coin to push a voter one way or another. "Because DASH, vote for Joe" seems pretty silly, but spin people are good at what they do. The real siege is yet to come, and DASH will or will not prepare better than the other coins (he says, feigning detachment).             

[AlexGR]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWeIEFBrItE&feature=youtu.be&t=11m0s

BTC - Only 2300 nodes with 24/7 uptime in 7 days.

I guess DASH has more nodes than bitcoin, lol. Next thing you know BTC will be paying DASH for its node network

[Moloch]

BTC - Only 2300 nodes with 24/7 uptime in 7 days.

I guess DASH has more nodes than bitcoin, lol. Next thing you know BTC will be paying DASH for its node network

Dash has more masternodes, but fewer "full nodes" than bitcoin

[GhostPlayer]

BTC - Only 2300 nodes with 24/7 uptime in 7 days.

I guess DASH has more nodes than bitcoin, lol. Next thing you know BTC will be paying DASH for its node network

Dash has more masternodes, but fewer "full nodes" than bitcoin

 Masternodes are, firstly, full nodes.

[oaxaca]

This is why I think this budget proposal system needs work.
Please don't take this as an attempt to derail the good work you have done however.

Where are the receipts. Where is the accountability.
you asked for funding and you got it. Why should you get additional funding due to the fact you misquoted and need further funds.

We were told to ask for less than was needed to insure that we could squeeze out every DASH from the January Budget.  That did not even cover initial expenses.  Then the Conference organizers demanded $750 for the extra space and electricity for the machine.  There were other smaller items.

There has to be a line drawn, This is where my previous comments come into play. Had we engaged a company who built vending machines every day. Who incorporated Crypto payments into these machines every day. Would we have had these issues?

This is where you say there isn't any one doing this kind of thing. To that all I have to say is.. There is a market to become a business based off the back of these kinds of projects.
If a business misquotes work they need to eat the costs.

You say you aren't a business. Then maybe we should start giving these kinds of jobs to someone who is a business.

Emit.

Instantx is the single greatest feature in Crypto today.  Nobody in the vending industry (or any RETAIL) can incorporate the technology until further development is done.  We started doing it.

I have a question for you and everybody else reading this post.  How many RETAIL establishments are within 1 mile of where you are sitting, standing, walking right now.  How many of them could benefit from the following:

1 - Get rid of the 3-5% bank fees for all your transactions
2 - Get instant access to your funds instead of waiting for it to "clear" the bank
3 - Eliminate chargebacks from customers

I would say every single retail establishment out there.

Adoption is the key to success for any crypto project.  We showed how to do it.

Please Vote on this important topic

dash-cli mnbudget vote-many 1e477007d555f9f8919ecbe3b4c457b6f269184924771c0117fbb48751bf23d6 yes

[BrainShutdown]

Adoption is the key to success for any crypto project.  We showed how to do it.

Please Vote on this important topic

dash-cli mnbudget vote-many 1e477007d555f9f8919ecbe3b4c457b6f269184924771c0117fbb48751bf23d6 yes

3rd no-brainer proposal, unfortunately it seams the 2nd won't pass... I hope this will, you got my support for all of them. It will take some time but ultimately you (InstantX adoption proposals) will be proven right.

[BiteMyShinyMetalAss]

This is why I think this budget proposal system needs work.
Please don't take this as an attempt to derail the good work you have done however.

Where are the receipts. Where is the accountability.
you asked for funding and you got it. Why should you get additional funding due to the fact you misquoted and need further funds.

We were told to ask for less than was needed to insure that we could squeeze out every DASH from the January Budget.  That did not even cover initial expenses.  Then the Conference organizers demanded $750 for the extra space and electricity for the machine.  There were other smaller items.

There has to be a line drawn, This is where my previous comments come into play. Had we engaged a company who built vending machines every day. Who incorporated Crypto payments into these machines every day. Would we have had these issues?

This is where you say there isn't any one doing this kind of thing. To that all I have to say is.. There is a market to become a business based off the back of these kinds of projects.
If a business misquotes work they need to eat the costs.

You say you aren't a business. Then maybe we should start giving these kinds of jobs to someone who is a business.

Emit.

Instantx is the single greatest feature in Crypto today.  Nobody in the vending industry (or any RETAIL) can incorporate the technology until further development is done.  We started doing it.

I have a question for you and everybody else reading this post.  How many RETAIL establishments are within 1 mile of where you are sitting, standing, walking right now.  How many of them could benefit from the following:

1 - Get rid of the 3-5% bank fees for all your transactions
2 - Get instant access to your funds instead of waiting for it to "clear" the bank
3 - Eliminate chargebacks from customers

I would say every single retail establishment out there.

Adoption is the key to success for any crypto project.  We showed how to do it.

Please Vote on this important topic

dash-cli mnbudget vote-many 1e477007d555f9f8919ecbe3b4c457b6f269184924771c0117fbb48751bf23d6 yes

This is naive point of view. how many of retails have ever heard of crytpocurrencies? Not a signle retailer will want to keep DASH or bitcoin. Therefore its better to contact current market leaders, liek bitpay or diamond to incorporate DASH as well. 

[oaxaca]

This is naive point of view. how many of retails have ever heard of crytpocurrencies? Not a signle retailer will want to keep DASH or bitcoin. Therefore its better to contact current market leaders, liek bitpay or diamond to incorporate DASH as well. 

Sure, and nobody would want to buy a CD when there are phonograph records either.

[Moloch]

Not a signle retailer will want to keep DASH or bitcoin.

Louis CK wants your bitcoin!
http://www.newsbtc.com/2016/01/31/loucis-ck-accepts-bitcoin-for-new-show-horace-and-pete/

[TanteStefana2]

So are you saying that being invited to the Satoshi Round Table is like being invited to a private place to conspire against the world?

Personally, I would think that'd be a waste of time.

I'm hoping that Evan and Daniel will have a chance to step out of their focus on Dash, and mingle with people to learn instead of to teach (about Dash).  They'll have great conversations with people that are doing things I doubt that Daniel or Evan even know about.  They'll make connections, and get a broader view on what's up in the industry today.  I'm certain they'll come back more inspired than ever, but I doubt they'll come back with a conspiracy to dominate over everyone and control the world's finances, LOL.

I wouldn't so easily dismiss the Bilderberg of Crypto concerns. All of us are just people with so many flaws and, as the Bitcoin disturbances among its key people has shown, big egos clash nastily. You may "doubt they'll come back with a conspiracy to dominate over everyone and control the world's finances," and you're correct if you're referring to Evan and Daniel but what crypto is doing is precisely that: an attempt to fundamentally change the world of finances and to, ultimately, snatch the control over the world from the The Financial Crime Cartel™ and its claws...

These people, The Financial Crime Cartel™ (TFCC) and its best buddies, the military-industrial-media-spying complex have no qualms when "they killed men and have ordered men to be killed," but not in a gentlemanly, in comparison, Mafia way, but they go and kill millions in many a defenseless, blameless country thousands of miles away for one reason only: to make themselves and their friends rich beyond belief. The rest is just a smokescreen obscuring the bloody racket. Take the power of the (collective) purse from them and you will have destroyed a well-oiled pillaging & killing, most destructive murderous, money making machine the world has ever seen.

So the crypto, with DASH being its brightest star still under the radar, is at the same time the only REAL danger TFCC et.al. are facing perhaps less than a decade from now (rest assured, they will not go quietly into the dark chambers of hell from where they seem to have materialized, but will bite, and will bite hard, chopping off heads and killing more millions, just to cling on their blood-lust based power) and faces its own problems. No matter how genial the governance idea is, there's a mechanism of inequality embedded in the system: the more masternodes one has, the more income it creates and can, thusly, create even more masternodes, in a much faster, progressive way than someone who has 1 - 2 or 5 MNs.

The gap will widen. 1%, rather 0.1% again, anyone?

So, one day, with DASH replacing the dollar as the border-less world's reserve currency, these masternodes will be worth trillions of today's dollars and our motley crew gathered in the Bilderberg of Crypto will have faced (will have had it) the same power The Financial Crime Cartel™ people are having today. And than, given our shared humanity -- let us admit: most of us calculated how much our DASH holdings would be worth in that scenario -- all the bets are off.

Just my 2 cents. Shrug them at will.

/ "Only the Paranoid Survive" /
 

OK, I'm not saying we shouldn't be on guard, but in this case, different people go each year, and it's purpose is completely understandable to me.  They could do this in a non public way too, which might be what will end up happening anyway In the mean time, they have to get the whole of the public to agree with them.  We are a much less manipulable group / industry.  But ultimately, this will most certainly be attempted sooner or later, and if we the people let it, it's our fault.  We've never been given so much power before in the history of mankind.  Lets not give it back to a few.  Never trust a small powerful group of people that much again by never giving them full control again. Control the money! What control we give them should always be easily revocable when things start looking off.

Even then, though, people can and will make mistakes.  We have a long way to go and many trials ahead.  Can we make it closer to right this time?  God only knows, but it's a step in the right direction, I think, at least at this point.

So I guess I agree with you, in that we must keep our eyes and ears open, but you can't discount the value of doers and thinkers getting together to learn from each other, and to formulate a plan against the establishment together.  As long as they share their ideas and conclusions afterwards with the world.