[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[sippsnapp]

What is this all about?



people arguing about darkcoin on coindesk!!!!

It's a non-factual claim. None were premined -- that's 0.00%. It was a fair launch and like many cryptos, early adopters enjoyed lower mining difficulty. The amount mined in the first 24h is about 2% the 84M max. I honestly wish people could let the coins compete on the quality of their features & implementations rather than manufacturing FUD.

The ONLY thing about DRK that prevents much higher prices is due to what you just said.

Current coin supply is less than 4 million DRK. 2% of 84 million is...
1.6 million, so in the first week probably 80% of the DRK was mined
No premine, but certainly a small number of people have this 80%

I have no problems with people that were smart enough and lucky enough to have mined the first 80%. Just dont keep promoting it as no-premine. It is technically true, but from a practical standpoint misleading and is an attack vector for credible complaints.

So a small number of people now have $2 million USD worth of DRK and they continue to cash out. Based on total volumes traded, there is still a long ways to go before even $1 million of that is sold.

James

Thats as true as sad.
However, 1 million is like nothing in the investment/speculation world. One individual can take this out, Not even considering crazy risk averse hedgefunds or mass media effect as as we witnessed in bitcoin the black market effect, next cyprus, china users or whatever ^^.

[luke997]

What is this all about?



people arguing about darkcoin on coindesk!!!!

It's a non-factual claim. None were premined -- that's 0.00%. It was a fair launch and like many cryptos, early adopters enjoyed lower mining difficulty. The amount mined in the first 24h is about 2% the 84M max. I honestly wish people could let the coins compete on the quality of their features & implementations rather than manufacturing FUD.

The ONLY thing about DRK that prevents much higher prices is due to what you just said.

Current coin supply is less than 4 million DRK. 2% of 84 million is...
1.6 million, so in the first week probably 80% of the DRK was mined
No premine, but certainly a small number of people have this 80%

I have no problems with people that were smart enough and lucky enough to have mined the first 80%. Just dont keep promoting it as no-premine. It is technically true, but from a practical standpoint misleading and is an attack vector for credible complaints.

So a small number of people now have $2 million USD worth of DRK and they continue to cash out. Based on total volumes traded, there is still a long ways to go before even $1 million of that is sold.

James

This has already been discussed several times over.
A large amount of what was mined in the first days has been redistributed already, and what early adopters have, they keep.
If it wasn't, there were a lot of opportunities to dump at 0.002.

Just to make it clear, I wasn't the early adopter. First 2 weeks when I started mined 17 darks on 2 laptops... Only later I got some GPUs on it and bought more.
I wish I was earlier on this, but I wasn't end of story, no point beat the stick about it.
It was fair play and opened to everyone.

[Majormax]

What would you suggest, the people who mined the first week should sell most of their coins so the price goes down and everyone else can buy cheap, and then it will rise to new heights?

Yes, the early holders should sell (dump) down to 1/10 of current price, then there would be wider distribution. Alternatively, they could give their coins away to attain wider ownership.  That will strengthen the coin.

[coins101]

What is this all about?



people arguing about darkcoin on coindesk!!!!

It's a non-factual claim. None were premined -- that's 0.00%. It was a fair launch and like many cryptos, early adopters enjoyed lower mining difficulty. The amount mined in the first 24h is about 2% the 84M max. I honestly wish people could let the coins compete on the quality of their features & implementations rather than manufacturing FUD.

The ONLY thing about DRK that prevents much higher prices is due to what you just said.

Current coin supply is less than 4 million DRK. 2% of 84 million is...
1.6 million, so in the first week probably 80% of the DRK was mined
No premine, but certainly a small number of people have this 80%

I have no problems with people that were smart enough and lucky enough to have mined the first 80%. Just dont keep promoting it as no-premine. It is technically true, but from a practical standpoint misleading and is an attack vector for credible complaints.

So a small number of people now have $2 million USD worth of DRK and they continue to cash out. Based on total volumes traded, there is still a long ways to go before even $1 million of that is sold.

James

I don't think this distraction should get in the way of darksend release schedules. However, it needs to be dealt with by being upfront with the coins that were mined. It can, for instance, be put into bitcoin context:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=316297.msg4779800#msg4779800

Today I have made the new distribution analysis.

- The number of blockchain addresses with a balance of BTC0.001+ was 1,026,000. This is a 71% increase from the last calculation 2 mth ago.
- Number of MyWallets and even the Mt.Gox userbase also showed similar increase.
- The exponential trend of bitcoin adoption would show a 53% increase over 2 months so these figures seem realistic.
- Due to the shortage of people helping me, I was unable to effectively calculate the other metrics.
- I estimated that the number of bitcoin users has just reached 2 million users milestone (+66% from 2 months).
- There is no evidence of significant holders increasing or reducing their position, or of new such holders emerging, so that was left quite intact.
- Number of bitcoins increased by 250,000.
- Bitcoin exchange rate dropped by -20%.
- Other holdings were fit to the distribution model, which results in the following distribution:

27. Jan 2014

#People	#Bitcoins	#TotalBitcoins
46	BTC10k+	3.6M
820	BTC1k-10k	2.4M
10k	BTC100-1k	2.8M
68k	BTC10-100	2.0M
250k	BTC1-10	0.8M
550k	BTC0.1-1	0.2M
690k	BTC0.01-0.1	0.0M
430k	BTC0.001-0.01	0.0M

Total: 11.8M bitcoins (0.5M bitcoins assumed lost)

EDIT: This thread is very relevant also

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=517759.0

[Majormax]

This argument about  early mined coins (although erronously called a 'premine') nearly destroyed QRK (and in that case , even though the mining took place over months, not days !)

The logic is inescapable, but there will always be people who argue about semantics.


The early holders will sell when they each feel it is time, and it will lower the price as well as add to wider ownership.


A temporary drop in the value is always the price paid for distribution.

[CHAOSiTEC]

What would you suggest, the people who mined the first week should sell most of their coins so the price goes down and everyone else can buy cheap, and then it will rise to new heights?

Yes, the early holders should sell (dump) down to 1/10 of current price, then there would be wider distribution. Alternatively, they could give their coins away to attain wider ownership.  That will strengthen the coin.

i have given away/sold about 80% of all the coins i mined from the start, so, maybe you guys should start focusing on something else, because even though some of us where here early, spend electricity on mining it, we still gave away alot of it, yes i hold some coins, but i bet some later comers have even more than i, because what they lacked of in time, they had in buying / mining capacity.

[tw0r]

What would you suggest, the people who mined the first week should sell most of their coins so the price goes down and everyone else can buy cheap, and then it will rise to new heights?

Yes, the early holders should sell (dump) down to 1/10 of current price, then there would be wider distribution. Alternatively, they could give their coins away to attain wider ownership.  That will strengthen the coin.

i have given away/sold about 80% of all the coins i mined from the start, so, maybe you guys should start focusing on something else, because even though some of us where here early, spend electricity on mining it, we still gave away alot of it, yes i hold some coins, but i bet some later comers have even more than i, because what they lacked of in time, they had in buying / mining capacity.

My words...

I dont understand people complaining all the time instead of mining or buying.

Every coin has some early adopters they were there from the start, they are checking these forums and mining every coin from the beggining. Some of them loose, some dont. But they have many coins - we cant blame them.

Personaly Im mining like a month with 10MHs and when I have some btcs or other coins I change them for DRK.

Im also renting rigs sometimes on Leaserig.net - so everyone has a chance to have many DarkCoins!

Im from very poor country but today I bought 200 DRK - its a lot of BTC for me!

[InternetApe]

These are the first 5 that showed up in my twitter account:

Here are the winners: (2 of them I found their username on BitcoinTalk)

Notorious BTC ‏@NotoriousBTC           Notorious-BTC on Bitcoin talk

Copil Yanez ‏@copil  

Cases And Skins ‏@CasesAndSkins           Kuriso on bitcointalk

NUKE1989 ‏@NukeFHarris  

RED NLGGER ‏@REDNLGGER  

[Tyke]

Darkcoin will feature two pages in the book called Cryptocurrency "The Alt-ernative" the Beginner's Reference

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=483187.new#new


Please donate to the below Darkcoin wallet address in order to help fund this project:

XwMJKu5JPpqzHgrXpkb91baGufPrNtuhUT

It will have 2 pages similar to this:





If you spot any spelling or grammar errors, these are easily sorted.  I do have a full time job as well as trying to get this project completed too.

[TanteStefana]

wearing that T-Shirt means being in favour of Silkroad and other shady stuff?

Why not justa agree that it shows your pro-darkcoin stance, and leave it at that?

Ok, I see. What is the purpose of DarkCoin, how will u use its DarkSend? What for, exactly?

I would always use it, never not.  I have a personal need to be private and don't want people to snoop around my checkbook.  I have never done drugs, have always been a terrible lightweight with alcohol, so only can take about a glass of wine at dinner sometimes, no more.  I have an excellent driving record.  I'm a non-judgmental goodie two shoe.  I'll never turn darksend off because I don't want my transactions seen period!

[TanteStefana]

wearing that T-Shirt means being in favour of Silkroad and other shady stuff?

Why not justa agree that it shows your pro-darkcoin stance, and leave it at that?

Ok, I see. What is the purpose of DarkCoin, how will u use its DarkSend? What for, exactly?

Anonymous transfer of money.

What for exactly? Bitcoin's block chain is enough for me personally.  Nobody can track my address to my name.

Granted if I wanted to launder money, buy illegal substances etc., I'd use DarkSend

That's great that it's enough for you, its not enough for me.  This product may not be for you, some of us really want our privacy.

[TanteStefana]

What for exactly? Bitcoin's block chain is enough for me personally.  Nobody can track my address to my name.

Maybe not for now if you haven't done any transfers where your name could be linked to, you always use tor and throw away emails and prepaid wireless connections etc. But for example if you have sent BTC to an exchange that requires your real info, or sometime in the future pay with BTC on paypal or buy stuff by mail order where you give your name/address, then potentially all your financial history could be solved down to the first transaction you ever made. All it really needs is one slip.

Precisely.  I guess people just don't see it?

[TanteStefana]

What for exactly? Bitcoin's block chain is enough for me personally.  Nobody can track my address to my name.

Maybe not for now if you haven't done any transfers where your name could be linked to, you always use tor and throw away emails and prepaid wireless connections etc. But for example if you have sent BTC to an exchange that requires your real info, or sometime in the future pay with BTC on paypal or buy stuff by mail order where you give your name/address, then potentially all your financial history could be solved down to the first transaction you ever made. All it really needs is one slip.

you could actually say that, bitcoins is the equelent of debit card, trace able
while darkcoin is the digital form of cash, untraceable

Even a debit card affords you some privacy.  What outside source can find out about how you spend your money except if your account is hacked or statements stolen from the mailbox.  With most  of these altcoins, you can be completely spied upon.

Granted, I'm a nobody with very little money and I'm not interesting, yet the thought of being "seen" freaks me out!

[Jungian]

What for exactly? Bitcoin's block chain is enough for me personally.  Nobody can track my address to my name.

Maybe not for now if you haven't done any transfers where your name could be linked to, you always use tor and throw away emails and prepaid wireless connections etc. But for example if you have sent BTC to an exchange that requires your real info, or sometime in the future pay with BTC on paypal or buy stuff by mail order where you give your name/address, then potentially all your financial history could be solved down to the first transaction you ever made. All it really needs is one slip.

Precisely.  I guess people just don't see it?

I think it's more like "this may happen to some unlucky bastard, but not me". I predict that as we see more blatant attacks on online privacy people will be forced to use services such as Darksend (if this indeed turns out to be the best and most avaliable way to transfer and store money online) in order to not have their wealth confiscated.


What we really need to find out is just how safe Darkcoin is and what others features can be added to make it untracable. I hope Darksend is just the start, if we indeed need more features.

[TanteStefana]

Bitcoin's block chain is enough for me personally.  Nobody can track my address to my name.

If you think that is enough, then use that. Some people think HTTP is secure enough, others use HTTPS. Some people think having a password like hello123 is enough, others use a more secure password.

Jungian - EXCELLENT answer imho. I like the references you gave VERY much.
I think this should be copy/pasted into the darkcoin.io website FAQ

Also MUST post that DarkSend/DarkCoin does not endorse illegal activity since it won't be accepted by governments, it needs some disclaimer

What can a government do about crypto currency? Nothing!  They just want to figure out how they can tax it, but they can't.  Not until it's converted to fiat currency.  No matter what hot air any of the politicians blow, they're ultimately impotent and that's exactly how it should be and why  crypto currency exists.

with regards to money laundering, there are laws already in place.  Fiat Exchanges must keep track of who their customers are.  All the laws needed are already in place.  What cryptos bring to the table is nothing new, we've always had cash and cash has done a great job enabling crime.  Giving up my privacy will not help the government keep us any "safer" (Yah right)

[TanteStefana]

DarkCoin is a brand, its technology is another thing. If you don't post that it does NOT endorse illegal activity, people are going to connect this brand with Silkroad etc. which is not favourable

The first time you use the wallet, you must agree to this.  It's not really binding and there is no enforcement, but it takes a stand.

[TanteStefana]

Ok, that might be true.

Just frightening to think about  selling and buying humans, organs, drugs etc. with Darkcoin on the internet, not to mention all the scams that will be easily pulled off with Darkcoin.

I've finally accepted the fact that the world is an ugly place and I simply have to protect my family from it as best I can.

On the other hand, there are beautiful places in this world, where you will find good, kind, thoughtful, funny people with all the reasons for living.  You simply have to make the choice.  Nobody,  not the government, not the police, and ultimately, not even your parents can do that for you.

[TanteStefana]

The name DarkCoin already implies where it may be used best imo

You can twist any name the way you see fit.  When we came up with the name, we were thinking of how it kept outsiders "in the dark" or in other words, that you couldn't see what should be private.  Maybe we were all naïve, actually some did point out that it could be interpreted that way, but we thought people wouldn't be so stupid....  LOL, we were wrong

[n00bnoxious]

Ok, that might be true.

Just frightening to think about  selling and buying humans, organs, drugs etc. with Darkcoin on the internet, not to mention all the scams that will be easily pulled off with Darkcoin.

I've finally accepted the fact that the world is an ugly place and I simply have to protect my family from it as best I can.

On the other hand, there are beautiful places in this world, where you will find good, kind, thoughtful, funny people with all the reasons for living.  You simply have to make the choice.  Nobody,  not the government, not the police, and ultimately, not even your parents can do that for you.

^ This and this are my reasons for being invested in Darkcoin. The banks even admit they haven't got a clue how it's meant to work, and so far their methods have facilitated FAR more criminal activity worldwide than any cryptocurrency has. Look at HSBC turning a blind eye to gigantic laundered transactions for example. People will break the law with whatever they have to hand. Darksend isn't going to suddenly incite people all over the world to go and break the law when they weren't already going to do so...

[TanteStefana]

And having a safe way to conduct transactions is a good thing. The very illegality of those things are what makes them so bad.
These is nothing intrinsically bad about drugs, but having made them illegal drives up risk HUGELY, and with that comes violent crime, bad quality, filled up prisons, war e.tc.

Having a safer way to conduct business drives down risk and that is good for everyone, except those who profit from the fear mongering and the steady stream of new inmates.

I'm sort of a libertarian, so I do mostly agree with what you're saying, however I do think non medicinal drugs are generally bad.  But I believe this should be countered with education and awareness.