[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[Thingamajig]

2Kool4Skewl

Were three consecutive posts necessary? really?

Although I think some of the things you say are legitimate criticisms (I emphasize SOME). You seldom seem to be providing any real solutions or idea's - just content to shoot down NEM with every post that you make. Utopian has expressed repeatedly people can leave voluntarily, the choice is there. Yet you continually post negatively about NEM implying you're not interested or operating on an agenda.

[1715133290]

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[1715133290]

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[1715133290]

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[dzarmush]

Here's an idea for the public audit.

There are 113 pages of Nxt transactions:


Say I'll check last 23 pages: from 90 to 113. Is there anyone willing to check previous pages? We only need 6 people to check all Nxt transactions and 12 people to double check them.

Update: If you like the idea, I'll create a self-moderated topic where we split pages to check.

Example.

Someone bought two stakes:
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=978256747923058615
Then sent money to a new account:
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=10608880799684994787
Then sent money to another account:
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=12956190138975700589
And bought two more stakes.

Although there is no proof it's the same person, but anyway all these stakes need a closer look, right? So let's start with this kind of audition and see if we can find more evidences.

[Jaguar0625]

Hi,NEM devs:

I wonder what kind of account-address will NEM use? the nxt-digit style or the BTC-style? if it's the nxt-digit style, I suggest adding a few checksum characters in front of the account number, the checksum characters can be used to validate the account number. The number of checksum characters do not have to be fixed, it can be varied in a range(you can use letters for checksum characters only,then it can be distinguished from account numbers), so ppl can choose some accounts with meaningful checksums, for example, I will  select accounts start with newcn, say, newcn293929102290

Account numbers will be in the BTC-style.

[Jaguar0625]

...

1. I heard that Nem is different because you're translating the code.  I don't think that's innovative.  
2. I think POI is a flawed concept.  
3. I'm not sure what is meant by "different types of node", maybe someone can enlighten me.

...

I added the numbers in the above quite but i did not alter the text.

1. Translation is not the goal here. AFAIK NEM is also going to be built with JAVA so it's not the right word either. I think the goal is to have our own solid codebase and since quite a few things are being changed it's probably better to start over.

2. How so ? (I'm actually interested so plz do answer )

3. From the dev plan (I thought you read it ?):

NEM will have two types of nodes: server nodes and normal nodes.
Server nodes will store a full blockchain history. The full blockchain will serve as a public ledger, which will be important in order to preserve blockchain explorer functionality. Server nodes will publish all nodes and also a consolidated snapshot.

Normal nodes will connect to the network and request a consolidated snapshot from the server nodes. This snapshot will contain balance information for all accounts as well information about outstanding orders. Snapshots will be made daily and will include data from all confirmed blocks. After syncing the snapshot, the client will need to sync all blocks that were made after the snapshot up to the current time. After syncing those blocks, the client will be ready to begin interacting with the NEM network.
This should minimize the amount of time it takes a fresh client to sync the full blockchain and get online.
A snapshot will be generated daily. When a new snapshot is confirmed by the blockchain, a special no-fee snapshot transaction will be sent to a special account. New clients can validate the most recent snapshot by using hash attached to the last transaction sent to the special account. Snapshots will be validated after 1440 confirmations.

How will POI deal with people who have dynamic IPs?

The server / normal node scheme seems like it adds a trust factor into the equation.

The same way NXT POS does. The transaction graph will be based on account numbers, not ip addresses.

[2Kool4Skewl]

I temporarily took 2Kool4Skewl from NEM stakeholder list as I understand that he does not want to be there. In the first 20 pages of the fundraising, many people do not entirely understand about the scope as well as purpose of NEM so it was easy just to post "interested" there by a mistake. Contrary to what used to be in the first page of the fundraising thread , NEM do offer refund after the announcement of detail development plan (probably in 2 weeks or so) so if someone does not feel they fit in with NEM community, they can leave voluntarily.

As written in ournem.com, at this stage NEM is first of all a community of which people share a certain ideas and goals and we going to build NEM/ Nemcoin as our decentralized payment platform together as we go along. I see no reason to keep people that are unhappy with NEM and this approach. There are no coins to share yet so it is not like we are taking anything from anyone. If 2Kool4Skewl wants to join back in, just say so before I make the unified stakeholder list and I will add him in.  

The majority of NEM funding comes from Bitcoin and only about 30% of NEM stakeholders appear in NXT discussion before (see an excellent statistics by newcn) so I see NXT and NEM having quite a different demographics, also different technology and purposes. While I think there is a certain aspect of competition between the two blockchain, we can learn from each others as well. Some are developers of both NXT and NEM and they work across the aisle and I think that is a good thing. It will help advancing experiments and innovations in more directions. Compared to Bitcoin and other POW coins, NXT and NEM have more similarity and we can join force to emphasize our strength in a green economical network and highlight the problems with the computational arm-races used by Bitcoin and other POW coins. Let's focus on cooperation and innovation instead of envy and hatred as that are also  NEM's core concepts and principles.

BTW, we appreciate active participants much more than passive ones/ investors. So contact me if you want to help in any way. Thanks.

I'm certainly glad that I didn't invest any NXT or BTC for my Nem stake seeing that UtopianFuture and the community is so willing to remove a stakeholder from the genesis block.  All I said was that I didn't think the current feature set was innovative and I didn't think collecting for a dev fund was ethical seeing that Nem has no feasible innovation imo.

What does this say about your community?  Isn't "UtopianFuture" a misnomer now?

Everyone might want to think good and hard about what has just happened here.

Seems fair to me. You don't seem happy with NEM, nor do you seem to like it, talking negative about it, spreading FUD despite being a stakeholder. So he's giving you an option since it seems that perhaps you said interested without really knowing much about Nem. So he's doing you a favor and removing you from the list, and giving you the option of joining now that you're more familiar with Nem. So what's your decision.

Of course it seems fair to you, your Nem stake just grew.  I didn't say I didn't like it.  I said that I thought it was redundant because it lacks feasible innovation and I think fundraising is unethical under these conditions.

UtopianFuture didn't give me an option, he removed me.  "I temporarily took 2Kool4Skewl from NEM stakeholder list"  Now I have to reassert my interest?  What gives him the power to remove peoples' stakes?  Maybe, he'll do a favor for some other people too if they say the wrong thing.

[newcn]

I'm certainly glad that I didn't invest any NXT or BTC for my Nem stake seeing that UtopianFuture and the community is so willing to remove a stakeholder from the genesis block.  All I said was that I didn't think the current feature set was innovative and I didn't think collecting for a dev fund was ethical seeing that Nem has no feasible innovation imo.

What does this say about your community?  Isn't "UtopianFuture" a misnomer now?

Everyone might want to think good and hard about what has just happened here.

At least for me, I don't want to see any nxt-community members being removed from NEM stakeholder lists. In fact, I'd like to see more nxters joining NEM.
IMO, 2Kool4Skewl  should in the list, since he didn't make a statement to quit. it's not fair to be taken out just because he said something negative about NEM. he has a chance to quit later on if he really wants to.

[j23a]

Here's an idea for the public audit.

There are 113 pages of Nxt transactions:


Say I'll check last 23 pages: from 90 to 113. Is there anyone willing to check previous pages? We only need 6 people to check all Nxt transactions and 12 people to double check them.

Update: If you like the idea, I'll create a self-moderated topic where we split pages to check.

Example.

Someone bought two stakes:
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=978256747923058615
Then sent money to a new account:
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=10608880799684994787
Then sent money to another account:
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=12956190138975700589
And bought two more stakes.

Although there is no proof it's the same person, but anyway all these stakes need a closer look, right? So let's start with this kind of audition and see if we can find more evidences.

Wow, you're in for a lot of work. I tried looking at some of the accounts and ouch. I even got lost. If only you could program a computer.

[utopianfuture]

I'm certainly glad that I didn't invest any NXT or BTC for my Nem stake seeing that UtopianFuture and the community is so willing to remove a stakeholder from the genesis block.  All I said was that I didn't think the current feature set was innovative and I didn't think collecting for a dev fund was ethical seeing that Nem has no feasible innovation imo.

What does this say about your community?  Isn't "UtopianFuture" a misnomer now?

Everyone might want to think good and hard about what has just happened here.

At least for me, I don't want to see any nxt-community members being removed from NEM stakeholder lists. In fact, I'd like to see more nxters joining NEM.
IMO, 2Kool4Skewl  should in the list, since he didn't make a statement to quit. it's not fair to be taken out just because he said something negative about NEM. he has a chance to quit later on if he really want to.

It is not about nxt community. It is about NEM community. If someone is not interested in being part of the NEM community, he can leave and I will refund what he contributed in the fundraising process.
I have emphasized several times, the fundraising is a call for participants in building NEM/ Nemcoin network. If someone is not interested in that, he obviously misunderstood the process and should leave.

[tifozi]

I hope we start seeing some positive posts more often than logos/stakeholder complaints and naivete from adults going "this coin sucks/is not innovative/scam". Even the ones who have invested are not really throwing their life's savings here. I fully support the audits but hopefully it goes on behind closed doors without having to wash dirty laundry in public. I believe there is already a separate thread for grievances.

My day job is midrange infrastructure and product management. Would love to help with the infrastructure side of things whenever possible.

I hope we start a lot more activity in the github as well. Last time I had checked, there were just decompiled nxt binaries  

[dzarmush]

Here's an idea for the public audit.

There are 113 pages of Nxt transactions:
http://f5.s.qip.ru/FK151u3b.png

Say I'll check last 23 pages: from 90 to 113. Is there anyone willing to check previous pages? We only need 6 people to check all Nxt transactions and 12 people to double check them.

Update: If you like the idea, I'll create a self-moderated topic where we split pages to check.

Example.

Someone bought two stakes:
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=978256747923058615
Then sent money to a new account:
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=10608880799684994787
Then sent money to another account:
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=12956190138975700589
And bought two more stakes.

Although there is no proof it's the same person, but anyway all these stakes need a closer look, right? So let's start with this kind of audition and see if we can find more evidences.

Wow, you're in for a lot of work. I tried looking at some of the accounts and ouch. I even got lost. If only you could program a computer.

I think it's possible, but I'm not a programmer.

Here is another one. Super-fraudster!

Bought one stake
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=6744761866455172564
Sent some coins to
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=14708189734670584102
And bought another one

BUT! The most important. He made hundreds addresses, got money from giveaways and sent them all to one address. I think such people shoudn't have any stakes at all.

[utopianfuture]

I hope we start seeing some positive posts more often than logos/stakeholder complaints and naivete from adults going "this coin sucks/is not innovative/scam". Even the ones who have invested are not really throwing their life's savings here. I fully support the audits but hopefully it goes on behind closed doors without having to wash dirty laundry in public. I believe there is already a separate thread for grievances.

My day job is midrange infrastructure and product management. Would love to help with the infrastructure side of things whenever possible.

I hope we start a lot more activity in the github as well. Last time I had checked, there were just decompiled nxt binaries  

I guess that is a part about being transparent about the whole process. I don't see it as washing dirty laundry because there is nothing bad to hide and it does not violate anyone privacy at all.
On the other hand, the more effort people spend on the public auditing, the better nem reputation will be. We do it once but do it thoroughly.
I do have a request that all investigations should go to another thread or communicate with each other via pm.
There will be a new thread opened specifically for public auditing scheduled in 3 days.

[tifozi]

Sounds awesome. Thanks for the support and updates.

[Jaguar0625]

I hope we start seeing some positive posts more often than logos/stakeholder complaints and naivete from adults going "this coin sucks/is not innovative/scam". Even the ones who have invested are not really throwing their life's savings here. I fully support the audits but hopefully it goes on behind closed doors without having to wash dirty laundry in public. I believe there is already a separate thread for grievances.

My day job is midrange infrastructure and product management. Would love to help with the infrastructure side of things whenever possible.

I hope we start a lot more activity in the github as well. Last time I had checked, there were just decompiled nxt binaries  

At the moment, we're using a private git repository so that we can iterate a little faster without having to defend every line of code we write .

[tifozi]

I hope we start seeing some positive posts more often than logos/stakeholder complaints and naivete from adults going "this coin sucks/is not innovative/scam". Even the ones who have invested are not really throwing their life's savings here. I fully support the audits but hopefully it goes on behind closed doors without having to wash dirty laundry in public. I believe there is already a separate thread for grievances.

My day job is midrange infrastructure and product management. Would love to help with the infrastructure side of things whenever possible.

I hope we start a lot more activity in the github as well. Last time I had checked, there were just decompiled nxt binaries  

At the moment, we're using a private git repository so that we can iterate a little faster without having to defend every line of code we write .

Thanks Jaguar, makes sense to use private git there.

[dzarmush]

I hope we start seeing some positive posts more often than logos/stakeholder complaints and naivete from adults going "this coin sucks/is not innovative/scam". Even the ones who have invested are not really throwing their life's savings here. I fully support the audits but hopefully it goes on behind closed doors without having to wash dirty laundry in public. I believe there is already a separate thread for grievances.

My day job is midrange infrastructure and product management. Would love to help with the infrastructure side of things whenever possible.

I hope we start a lot more activity in the github as well. Last time I had checked, there were just decompiled nxt binaries  

I guess that is a part about being transparent about the whole process. I don't see it as washing dirty laundry because there is nothing bad to hide and it does not violate anyone privacy at all.
On the other hand, the more effort people spend on the public auditing, the better nem reputation will be. We do it once but do it thoroughly.
I do have a request that all investigations should go to another thread or communicate with each other via pm.
There will be a new thread opened specifically for public auditing scheduled in 3 days.

I agree. I just wanted to give some exapmles to encourage people for their own audit.

[lhuibin]

http://www.ournem.com/ can not open now.

[ZeroTheGreat]

Yes, but NXT community should realise this. Think they are jealous

I'm sure both communities contains different people. The last thing that is worth doing - is linearly extrapolation of behaviors from member of society to society itself.

"No Envy" - great idea, words that fit.

[ZeroTheGreat]

what the fuck ! i saw another coin, MEE TOO, they said they will exactly clone NEM.....

So what? It's a free market. I hope NEM's sources'll be published ASAP.

[ZeroTheGreat]

I think we should brainstorm about how to get a FIAT <-> NEM service going.
Any ideas ?

Through Nxt or even with own decentralized exchange.

[ShawnLeary]

Hello all!
I suggest using this logo for NEM. This is not a coin, it is necessary to deviate from a circular shape.

YES!!