[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[patmast3r]

I think a final stakeholders list is set to be released soon.

That's right. It'll be final but only until we start with the public auditing which will again alter the list by refunding big multi-accers and whoever wants out now that NEM becomes something more than was anticipated at the beginning.

What do u mean by public auditing whats the difference ?

We'll try to weed out big multi-accounters. It was said in the beginning that everyone is welcome to buy multiple stakes with multiples accounts so everyone can bring in friends and so on. However we don't want peole to buy 20 or more stakes for themselves which seems to have happend.

Hate to bring this up? but its " the big elephant in the room" how do we decide its ok to have 10 accounts but not 20 ? This question will be asked many times, once multi-stakeholders are being refunded.

Personally I feel even 10 stake is too much, those ten stakes could have gone to 10 more people who could be more valuable to the movement. Whats the point of owning ten stakes, they are actually only hurting themselves in the process by limiting the number of active participants who might actually raise the overall value of his one stake.

How many unique members do we actually have? If we assume each person on average bought two stakes ( its a real possibility) then we only have 1500 actual member , if the average is 4 accts per head then its only 750 real people.

I am not sure whats fair? Maybe 2 stakes( one for loved one) as initially stated would be the right thing to do for everyone. Remember more stakeholders equals more NEM evangelists.  

There are people who told friends and family and had to buy stakes for them. I do beleive that someone could get 10 people to buy stakes that's not unrealistic.
However if someone has 20 (or more) stakes, bought with accounts that have all been created within half an hour that never showed any further activity payed for with transactions that all happend around the same time as well then he did not get anyone into NEM he simply created sockpuppets. It's not so much about the number it's about are those actual people or only sockpuppets.

[SZZT]

" the big elephant in the room"

There is no elephant, the announcement was clear.
Everyone will have the option, many will try, some will succeed, others will fail.

Start reading the thread from the beginning, and all the threads that are a set with this.
On every page, there is someone  who thinks he did not get enough.

"One free stake is not enough for  me, if others have more than one" is what you read most.
"Kick the troll out" is the second shout.

You all came to ask for free coins, in a "No Envy" movement, but it did not take long for envy to creep in, did it?

-EDIT ->
Multi buy ins with more than two stakes should be labeled donations. Conning is not accepted, no matter how someone calls it.

[ashapasa]

Another question?

If a person has 20 stakes, do we intend ti refund them completely ( not fair) or bring it down to an accetable level ( what ever that is)?

[SZZT]

Another question?

If a person has 20 stakes, do we intend ti refund them completely ( not fair) or bring it down to an accetable level ( what ever that is)?

How many do you have?

[ashapasa]

" the big elephant in the room"

There is no elephant, the announcement was clear.
Everyone will have the option, many will try, some will succeed, others will fail.

Start reading the thread from the beginning, and all the threads that are a set with this.
On every page, there is someone  who thinks he did not get enough.

"One free stake is not enough for  me, if others have more than one" is what you read most.
"Kick the troll out" is the second shout.

You all came to ask for free coins, in a "No Envy" movement, but it did not take long for envy to creep in, did it?

-EDIT ->
Multi buy ins with more than two stakes should be labeled donations. Conning is not accepted, no matter how someone calls it.

Sorry if I offended u in any way? u seem to be angry, its not my intention. Its not envy, I want NEM to be a success. I dont care about your particular stake , more people will increase the likelihood of NEM being more successful.  A million coin is more than enough for me if it actually becomes successful.

[patmast3r]

Another question?

If a person has 20 stakes, do we intend ti refund them completely ( not fair) or bring it down to an accetable level ( what ever that is)?

Yes afaik we intend to refund them completely anything else would be pretty much stealing. The deal was:

However accumulating many NEM stakes goes against NEM's principles of fairness and equality, therefore the development team reserves the right to refund you the money if an effort to unfairly accumulate NEM stakes is discovered.

[ashapasa]

Another question?

If a person has 20 stakes, do we intend ti refund them completely ( not fair) or bring it down to an accetable level ( what ever that is)?

How many do you have?

I have two ( bought one for my brother) check it if you must   . How many do u have . Why is this pricking u so much.

[ashapasa]

Another question?

If a person has 20 stakes, do we intend ti refund them completely ( not fair) or bring it down to an accetable level ( what ever that is)?

Yes afaik we intend to refund them completely anything else would be pretty much stealing. The deal was:

However accumulating many NEM stakes goes against NEM's principles of fairness and equality, therefore the development team reserves the right to refund you the money if an effort to unfairly accumulate NEM stakes is discovered.

Would it not be more compassionate to let them keep one stake at least. If person A has 10 stakes and if person B has 11 , is it right for person A to keep 10 and person B to have none.

[s111102]

Another question?

If a person has 20 stakes, do we intend ti refund them completely ( not fair) or bring it down to an accetable level ( what ever that is)?

Yes afaik we intend to refund them completely anything else would be pretty much stealing. The deal was:

However accumulating many NEM stakes goes against NEM's principles of fairness and equality, therefore the development team reserves the right to refund you the money if an effort to unfairly accumulate NEM stakes is discovered.

+1
I believe, it is fair to most of investors.

[suky321]

Another question?

If a person has 20 stakes, do we intend ti refund them completely ( not fair) or bring it down to an accetable level ( what ever that is)?

Yes afaik we intend to refund them completely anything else would be pretty much stealing. The deal was:

However accumulating many NEM stakes goes against NEM's principles of fairness and equality, therefore the development team reserves the right to refund you the money if an effort to unfairly accumulate NEM stakes is discovered.

+1
I believe, it is fair to most of investors.

I'm surprised by some of the greed (assuming some people have created sockpuppet accounts for selfish reasons). One stake per person is enough, and it in turn it allows other users to claim a fair stake as well.  Every sockpuppet account that someone creates for selfish reasons, then a potential legitimate stakeholder loses out.  This is not good for the movement/community. 

If a user is found to create many accounts for "family", "friends" etc, perhaps they should only be given one stake which they can share with their "family" and "friends" rather than multiple.

i.e. they can split their one stake 50/50, 33.3/33.3/33.3 25/25/25/25 and so on.

[Bigbrowndingleberry]

When will this public audit happen? Oh and if I'm not mistaken utopianfuture mentioned a second nem stake opening for bigger names and larger contributers?

[Thingamajig]

I'm surprised by some of the greed (assuming some people have created sockpuppet accounts for selfish reasons). One stake per person is enough, and it in turn it allows other users to claim a fair stake as well.  Every sockpuppet account that someone creates for selfish reasons, then a potential legitimate stakeholder loses out.  This is not good for the movement/community. 

If a user is found to create many accounts for "family", "friends" etc, perhaps they should only be given one stake which they can share with their "family" and "friends" rather than multiple.

i.e. they can split their one stake 50/50, 33.3/33.3/33.3 25/25/25/25 and so on.

Although i completely agree with this, the reality is it would be extremely difficult to accomplish. In addition i am an individual who bought NXT on behalf of a friend who later used it in his own wallet to invest in NEM (Of which i can prove through a variety of means to UP if requested)

In all honesty, i just don't see it happening anytime soon. Personally the only people i'd pursue are those who blatantly hold a large number of stake.

[patmast3r]

When will this public audit happen? Oh and if I'm not mistaken utopianfuture mentioned a second nem stake opening for bigger names and larger contributers?

Audit will happen after the stakeholderlist is completed. There have been talks about a second round of registration but I'm not sure it's definite yet. I guess it'll also depend on how many stake holders there actually are. I'm sure about bigger names or larger contributors but the rules would definitely be tightened.

[utopianfuture]

My plan is to use taint analysis to link closely related accounts together. And we will limit the holding of these closely related accounts to 5 stakes, anything above that would be refunded.

We can't really say for sure all these related accounts is just one person. It is possible that a group of friends is buying via one big account holder and but one account still represent one person. It is a good thing if someone can draw a close friend or two of him into crypto because of this opportunity and then they can can help to promote NEM in differently ways locally. But I would like to restrict these groups to a maximum of 5 stakes.

I asked Kooream to compile population statistics so that we can see have a glimpse of how many unique accounts/ individuals we could have. I expect group 1, accounts created  before the fundraising, consists mainly of unique accounts and as well as accounts in group 2, accounts created during the fundraising but engaged in more activities. Counting both groups, we already have roughly 1500 stakeholders, so that's a good thing.  

It is expected that stakeholders can buy 1 more share for loved one/ family member as well so a certain percentage of group 3 account falls into this category. A certain portion accounts in group 3 are also unique accounts but they are not yet active so they should be able to keep their shares. The remaining are likely sockpuppet accounts and we will try to refund them using the taint analysis.

I have finished the unified list and will post them momentarily. Let's wait 1-2 days before we start the public auditing. There will be guidelines and bounties announced for the efforts. Generally the public auditing includes: public checking for errors, discrepancies in the stakeholder list; public checking for big multi-accouter using taint analysis.

UP    

[stoneone]

My plan is to use taint analysis to link closely related accounts together. And we will limit the holding of these closely related accounts to 5 stakes, anything above that would be refunded.

We can't really say for sure all these related accounts is just one person. It is possible that a group of friends is buying via one big account holder and but one account still represent one person. It is a good thing if someone can draw a close friend or two of him into crypto because of this opportunity and then they can can help to promote NEM in differently ways locally. But I would like to restrict these groups to a maximum of 5 stakes.

I asked Kooream to compile population statistics so that we can see have a glimpse of how many unique accounts/ individuals we could have. I expect group 1, accounts created  before the fundraising, consists mainly of unique accounts and as well as accounts in group 2, accounts created during the fundraising but engaged in more activities. Counting both groups, we already have roughly 1500 stakeholders, so that's a good thing.  

It is expected that stakeholders can buy 1 more share for loved one/ family member as well so a certain percentage of group 3 account falls into this category. A certain portion accounts in group 3 are also unique accounts but they are not yet active so they should be able to keep their shares. The remaining are likely sockpuppet accounts and we will try to refund them using the taint analysis.

I have finished the unified list and will post them momentarily. Let's wait 1-2 days before we start the public auditing. There will be guidelines and bounties announced for the efforts. Generally the public auditing includes: public checking for errors, discrepancies in the stakeholder list; public checking for big multi-accouter using taint analysis.

UP    

great work.

[SKNO1]

You paid a fee to join NEM not to buy a stake.

This is the same thing.  By joining Nem, you get a stake.  Supposedly.

You paid a fee to ask to join NEM not to buy a stake.

FIFY

And the last  Next i sale now too.

You're disturbing.

[utopianfuture]

NEM official stakeholder list (before the public auditing).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlidWok7hW0DdHVfeU1BRFVoZkJ6QTRvcjc2cTQzQ2c#gid=0

From now on we will use this list instead of the previous stakeholder list which will be used for checking references only.

[sunnieku]

My plan is to use taint analysis to link closely related accounts together. And we will limit the holding of these closely related accounts to 5 stakes, anything above that would be refunded.

We can't really say for sure all these related accounts is just one person. It is possible that a group of friends is buying via one big account holder and but one account still represent one person. It is a good thing if someone can draw a close friend or two of him into crypto because of this opportunity and then they can can help to promote NEM in differently ways locally. But I would like to restrict these groups to a maximum of 5 stakes.

I asked Kooream to compile population statistics so that we can see have a glimpse of how many unique accounts/ individuals we could have. I expect group 1, accounts created  before the fundraising, consists mainly of unique accounts and as well as accounts in group 2, accounts created during the fundraising but engaged in more activities. Counting both groups, we already have roughly 1500 stakeholders, so that's a good thing.  

It is expected that stakeholders can buy 1 more share for loved one/ family member as well so a certain percentage of group 3 account falls into this category. A certain portion accounts in group 3 are also unique accounts but they are not yet active so they should be able to keep their shares. The remaining are likely sockpuppet accounts and we will try to refund them using the taint analysis.

I have finished the unified list and will post them momentarily. Let's wait 1-2 days before we start the public auditing. There will be guidelines and bounties announced for the efforts. Generally the public auditing includes: public checking for errors, discrepancies in the stakeholder list; public checking for big multi-accouter using taint analysis.

UP    

You guys did very good job.I like those ideas.

[yzs5273]

I am more concerned about the three categories of user, because I belong to the third category of users.
   I think just to have the number of posts published can not conclude whether it is speculators, thank you!

[Fatih87SK]

NEM official stakeholder list (before the public auditing).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlidWok7hW0DdHVfeU1BRFVoZkJ6QTRvcjc2cTQzQ2c#gid=0

From now on we will use this list instead of the previous stakeholder list which will be used for checking references only.

So there are 3124 Stakeholders now?

Thanks for your hard work UP