[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[EFFV]

Ok Thanks, that helps... also I know im late, but is it still possible to get stake through assisting NEM in some way.

Or buying from current stakeholders.

Thanks,
EFFV

[utopianfuture]

Ok Thanks, that helps... also I know im late, but is it still possible to get stake through assisting NEM in some way.

Or buying from current stakeholders.

Thanks,
EFFV

We have a waiting list here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=467027.200 make a post there if you want to join the waiting list. We will add some more people after the public auditing.

[hisun]

Unfortunately I'm not a programmer and may you laugh me, but what if we would write another coin (little brother of NEM), which would only be possible to mine/forge by trading and/or holding NEM?
The more you hold, the more you mine. Also if you sell or buy some NEM you're earning some of the little brother. NEM should get an unbelievable thrust through and it would people
even more animate to use this Movement.

More I would bet some little stakes for Social Media, especially pages which are specialized for enlightening peepz and tell them about our current monetary system .
100 000 NEM for example for https://www.facebook.com/Killuminati.for.Wakeup?fref=ts when posting about us.
This may would bring a big thrust of new takers interested to Cryptocurrency because 372 000 sociocritical people would read and hear about it.

Tell me what you think of it

good idea.
nem finally started.up up.

[EFFV]

We have a waiting list here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=467027.200 make a post there if you want to join the waiting list. We will add some more people after the public auditing.

Thanks for the help

[jpdeng]

keep watching.

[gadsden76]

Hello, I am an early stakeholder of NEM, and I just wanted to voice my approval of the project.
I wish I could offer more assistance currently, but im just bogged down at work.

Thanks
-gadsden

[eCop]

My plan is to use taint analysis to link closely related accounts together. And we will limit the holding of these closely related accounts to 5 stakes, anything above that would be refunded.

We can't really say for sure all these related accounts is just one person. It is possible that a group of friends is buying via one big account holder and but one account still represent one person. It is a good thing if someone can draw a close friend or two of him into crypto because of this opportunity and then they can can help to promote NEM in differently ways locally. But I would like to restrict these groups to a maximum of 5 stakes.

I asked Kooream to compile population statistics so that we can see have a glimpse of how many unique accounts/ individuals we could have. I expect group 1, accounts created  before the fundraising, consists mainly of unique accounts and as well as accounts in group 2, accounts created during the fundraising but engaged in more activities. Counting both groups, we already have roughly 1500 stakeholders, so that's a good thing.  

It is expected that stakeholders can buy 1 more share for loved one/ family member as well so a certain percentage of group 3 account falls into this category. A certain portion accounts in group 3 are also unique accounts but they are not yet active so they should be able to keep their shares. The remaining are likely sockpuppet accounts and we will try to refund them using the taint analysis.

I have finished the unified list and will post them momentarily. Let's wait 1-2 days before we start the public auditing. There will be guidelines and bounties announced for the efforts. Generally the public auditing includes: public checking for errors, discrepancies in the stakeholder list; public checking for big multi-accouter using taint analysis.

UP    

I can help to do something about nxt account if necessary,
I made a statistic about the accounts that sent nxt to fundraising account,14343293611098709683.
at this level, there're not too much multibuyers, the following are top10, the first one is bter account:

Code:

ntrans.   account-id          total trans. of the account
55      10715382765594435905  6148
22       6635869272840226493 11747
13      10739916011970556785    24
12       3231774856984709013    21
7        3243382701527979272  1248
5        2449360251152267661    12
4        9795201389880306166    13
4         667929933529800118    11
3       17468995783587228756     4
3       16312789197984036211     4

[Bigbrowndingleberry]

55 shares straight from bter, funds from exchange address should be returned.

[eCop]

55 shares straight from bter, funds from exchange address should be returned.

I think the second is also belongs to an exchange site, but I don't know which it is.

[ashapasa]

Unfortunately I'm not a programmer and may you laugh me, but what if we would write another coin (little brother of NEM), which would only be possible to mine/forge by trading and/or holding NEM?
The more you hold, the more you mine. Also if you sell or buy some NEM you're earning some of the little brother. NEM should get an unbelievable thrust through and it would people
even more animate to use this Movement.

More I would bet some little stakes for Social Media, especially pages which are specialized for enlightening peepz and tell them about our current monetary system .
100 000 NEM for example for https://www.facebook.com/Killuminati.for.Wakeup?fref=ts when posting about us.
This may would bring a big thrust of new takers interested to Cryptocurrency because 372 000 sociocritical people would read and hear about it.

Tell me what you think of it

very interesting 

[patmast3r]

My plan is to use taint analysis to link closely related accounts together. And we will limit the holding of these closely related accounts to 5 stakes, anything above that would be refunded.

We can't really say for sure all these related accounts is just one person. It is possible that a group of friends is buying via one big account holder and but one account still represent one person. It is a good thing if someone can draw a close friend or two of him into crypto because of this opportunity and then they can can help to promote NEM in differently ways locally. But I would like to restrict these groups to a maximum of 5 stakes.

I asked Kooream to compile population statistics so that we can see have a glimpse of how many unique accounts/ individuals we could have. I expect group 1, accounts created  before the fundraising, consists mainly of unique accounts and as well as accounts in group 2, accounts created during the fundraising but engaged in more activities. Counting both groups, we already have roughly 1500 stakeholders, so that's a good thing.  

It is expected that stakeholders can buy 1 more share for loved one/ family member as well so a certain percentage of group 3 account falls into this category. A certain portion accounts in group 3 are also unique accounts but they are not yet active so they should be able to keep their shares. The remaining are likely sockpuppet accounts and we will try to refund them using the taint analysis.

I have finished the unified list and will post them momentarily. Let's wait 1-2 days before we start the public auditing. There will be guidelines and bounties announced for the efforts. Generally the public auditing includes: public checking for errors, discrepancies in the stakeholder list; public checking for big multi-accouter using taint analysis.

UP    

I can help to do something about nxt account if necessary,
I made a statistic about the accounts that sent nxt to fundraising account,14343293611098709683.
at this level, there're not too much multibuyers, the following are top10, the first one is bter account:

Code:

ntrans.   account-id          total trans. of the account
55      10715382765594435905  6148
22       6635869272840226493 11747
13      10739916011970556785    24
12       3231774856984709013    21
7        3243382701527979272  1248
5        2449360251152267661    12
4        9795201389880306166    13
4         667929933529800118    11
3       17468995783587228756     4
3       16312789197984036211     4

Someone that helps auditing the NXT TXs would be very helpful. Plz pm UP about the trello board. He should add you.

[makoto1337]

When I received my stake, no one had to pay.  At that point, if Nem wasn't fairly distributed and had no code, no one lost anything.  Later when UtopianFuture started collecting Nxt and Btc, people were at risk of losing their money.  I've seen the Visacoin, Shares, Aero, etc scams and I know how eager people are to get a stake in the next Nxt.  I don't think it is ethical to sell people on promises with little actual work.  Writing Nem from scratch is easier said than done.  People might say that I'm bashing Nem so they invest in Nxt, but the fact is that Nxt is being actively developed.  If I had to pay Nxt to get Nem, I would just keep my Nxt, but everyone has the right to make their own decision.

I could be wrong, but I think there is no comparison with Visae coin and others. Developers involved are more talented.

I guess the lead develper is Jaguar0625 who converted curve25519 (used by Nxt) to Javascript

https://github.com/Jaguar0625/JavaScriptNrs

could be very useful for Nxt webased clients for local signing.

The other developer  minusbalancer wrote one of the Nxt client.

There are are others all of of whom are well known on this forum.

It's stupid to compare this team with scam IPOs
 

Thanks for the comment.
Indeed, I have been very impressed with the quality of my fellow developers.

[makoto1337]

Hey folks,

Just to move to another topic...
What are your thoughts on the current MtGox affair?
In my opinion, this is very harmful, not only for BTC, but also for all currencies including NEM because:
i. Operationally, NEM (as well other second generation cryptocurrencies in their beginning) will set his value as a reference to the BTC price; which is something that in my opinion only will limit the development of NEM
ii. Public confidence on cryptocurrencies goes severely down. So, even though we have such a strong community, noble and good ideas to develop; for the eyes of the public opinion, this is still a cryptocurrency with the (wrong) impression that it can have the problems of BTC
iii. It also show how a good original idea (decentralized asset exchange) as BTC was co-opted and transformed in a merely highly risky and speculative commodity. This, in my opinion, is a powerful lesson for us. We should, from the very beginning, try to attach the coin to a real value in the real world. An advantage of our community is the fact that once the money start circulating; given the fair distribution, I hope it could be more easy to create these type of markets. I'm looking forward the development of the code to see wether it can be possible to create a market as eBay, but based on NEMs in parallel with trading sites in order to make NEM's economy more dynamic and varied

i. The market seems to have responded well, rising 30% since yesterday. I lost some money (but not too much) on Gox, but I think long term this will be good for the community (unless governments step in and regulate, because that will kill off all innovation). Sometimes letting someone "too big to fail" actually fail is a good thing. 祖佛共殺。

If you go for a walk in the forest, you will see dead trees and animals, but out of the dead matter new plants and life are growing. Where there is death, there is life as well; the two are inseparable and neither is to be feared.

ii. I think it is important to mark NEM as a movement, and not just another currency. I think in the future NEM could have several currencies and economic tools, but they could all be under the unified movement/ideology.

iii. It is important to create a way to trade with people that does not require that you trust others. POI/reputation/shitcoins can help this (see: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=988).

[makoto1337]

well apparently i don't get a stake purely because i linked the logo i made to imgur instead of posting it directly in the reply

how is that fair? i still made a logo! i was so looking forward to being a part of NEM too.....

i know i'm not the only one this has hapened to so can i please ask if i can have the stake???

You can still win a development share. I still don't know how your logo looks.

if everyone else who made a logo got a normal stake, why dont i too?

this was my logo;

Can AAAple12 perhaps buy a stake with the spot he used for the logo?

I do feel bad if he's been active the past month with NEM and is missing out due to a miscommunications.

There's nothing worse than missing out on a possibly big opportunity due to a miscommunication. I speak from experience.

If it was all due to a miscommunications, I think this is a sensible solution, if he's been following up on Nem and reading this thread everyday.

Well he could have his stake back just as Mr.2Kool4Skewl could have his stake back. I don't really like to take things from people. But it is sad that some people like to madly argue that some rules are baseless, trivial just because the rules are going against them. 

Apparently I made a wrong evaluation in the beginning of this NEM IPO;
and ofc let the previous NXT logo competition "scare"

Otherwise everything would have been so much easier and saved network bandwidth 

Suggestions (drafts) for NEM logo and currency symbol:

https://i.imgur.com/3CmjQ99.png

https://i.imgur.com/q8cfQnC.png



https://i.imgur.com/Zj7Fa7A.png

https://i.imgur.com/q8HOwwA.png

https://i.imgur.com/xFUT8Wc.png

Last three are kind of interesting. The balance could be a little better, though.

[makoto1337]

Interesting discussion in NXT thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5356613#msg5356613

It seems they realize that 100% POS coin concept is not enough as it
does not give any incentive to users with low account balance to run the node.
I see some influence of "NON INNOVATIVE" PON / POI concept here

sorry for asking a newbie question?  but why is it important for small accounts to run their nodes. Is it not enough for big accounts to run the system, they are forging all the fees anyway.

How does the POI system work anyway, Who or what determines which node is more important. Will it be possible in NEM for a person with 100 NEM to forge more then a person with 10000 NEM?

It depends on a couple of factors and I think the details e.g. balance between factors aren't 1000% worked out yet.

The amount of NEM you own will still be a factor. Also it will be a factor how much you actually use NEM. If you buy 100000 NEM but never make a single transaction your not going to get very far in terms of forging. It will also depend on what kind of node you are running. If you are running a client node you're not as important to the network as if you're running a server node which holds the entire blockchain.

I am trying several algorithms for POI right now. I think we will settle on a harmonic mean between amount of NEM and importance to the network.

[patmast3r]

Interesting discussion in NXT thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5356613#msg5356613

It seems they realize that 100% POS coin concept is not enough as it
does not give any incentive to users with low account balance to run the node.
I see some influence of "NON INNOVATIVE" PON / POI concept here

sorry for asking a newbie question?  but why is it important for small accounts to run their nodes. Is it not enough for big accounts to run the system, they are forging all the fees anyway.

How does the POI system work anyway, Who or what determines which node is more important. Will it be possible in NEM for a person with 100 NEM to forge more then a person with 10000 NEM?

It depends on a couple of factors and I think the details e.g. balance between factors aren't 1000% worked out yet.

The amount of NEM you own will still be a factor. Also it will be a factor how much you actually use NEM. If you buy 100000 NEM but never make a single transaction your not going to get very far in terms of forging. It will also depend on what kind of node you are running. If you are running a client node you're not as important to the network as if you're running a server node which holds the entire blockchain.

I am trying several algorithms for POI right now. I think we will settle on a harmonic mean between amount of NEM and importance to the network.

Will you publish your simulations ?
I think it'd help people understand POI and also give them an idea on their potential forging power.

[makoto1337]

So what is the official name, nemcoin or nem.

I like nemcoin.

Nemcoin is the blockchain. NEM is the currency unit. New Economy Movement (NEM) refers to the whole community. That's my idea but you could refer to the blockchain as NEM too. Some people prefer that way.

Nakamoto can be the smallest division (just one idea).

[JKBtCn]

Shameless repost, we need community members to get involved for this to be great!

nemcoin.info
Current Versions are at:
http://oddape.co/AwkwardTheme/index1.9.8.html (black theme)
and
http://oddape.co/AwkwardTheme/index1.9.7.html (blue theme)

Google Docs:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gbp1rivOTFZvtBG0_rJabUyyKbDuZjMBx9jiifBJO0c/edit?usp=sharing   (nemcoin.info proposal)

Please give me your input, I have appreciated all the suggestions so far! Do you like the black or blue theme? I prefer the blue theme as I think it is more welcoming, but the black theme would go well with ournem.com
<snip>

Reading previous posts this may not be popular...

Don't mind black or blue - what I would say is the contrast of the black really helps other features stand out and gives the page a stronger more striking feel to it...

In comparison the blue feels more average colour, a bit like Hewlett Packard corporate blue and microsoft use a blue like that quite a lot.

Nothing wrong with that... they want to be welcoming too. A DARKER Blue perhaps would give welcome and contrast?

I think there is too much text in the website.

I personally like clean websites. Like this one I made for NXT once;

http://ilgunf.wix.com/nxtmovement

Also the buttons on top of the website are not noticable (Home, about, community etc.). I noticed them after 3 visites to the website.

So my advice is to keep it very simple and readable for everyone.

I agree, the cleaner the better...I like your test NXT site.

Not to diminish the work done by crackerhead on the other site but I would like to see a site with sleeker/smoother lines. Much easier on the eyes.

Wish I could help!?

[makoto1337]

Interesting discussion in NXT thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5356613#msg5356613

It seems they realize that 100% POS coin concept is not enough as it
does not give any incentive to users with low account balance to run the node.
I see some influence of "NON INNOVATIVE" PON / POI concept here

sorry for asking a newbie question?  but why is it important for small accounts to run their nodes. Is it not enough for big accounts to run the system, they are forging all the fees anyway.

How does the POI system work anyway, Who or what determines which node is more important. Will it be possible in NEM for a person with 100 NEM to forge more then a person with 10000 NEM?

It depends on a couple of factors and I think the details e.g. balance between factors aren't 1000% worked out yet.

The amount of NEM you own will still be a factor. Also it will be a factor how much you actually use NEM. If you buy 100000 NEM but never make a single transaction your not going to get very far in terms of forging. It will also depend on what kind of node you are running. If you are running a client node you're not as important to the network as if you're running a server node which holds the entire blockchain.

I am trying several algorithms for POI right now. I think we will settle on a harmonic mean between amount of NEM and importance to the network.

Will you publish your simulations ?
I think it'd help people understand POI and also give them an idea on their potential forging power.

Yes, I plan to make my work open source when it is ready.

[conbos]

iii. It also show how a good original idea (decentralized asset exchange) as BTC was co-opted and transformed in a merely highly risky and speculative commodity. This, in my opinion, is a powerful lesson for us. We should, from the very beginning, try to attach the coin to a real value in the real world. An advantage of our community is the fact that once the money start circulating; given the fair distribution, I hope it could be more easy to create these type of markets. I'm looking forward the development of the code to see wether it can be possible to create a market as eBay, but based on NEMs in parallel with trading sites in order to make NEM's economy more dynamic and varied

iii. It is important to create a way to trade with people that does not require that you trust others. POI/reputation/shitcoins can help this (see: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=988).

very interesting link! Thanks for your comments