[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[j23a]

Why does it take so long till the coin will launch? Why does it takes a month to create a final stake holder list. I'm not impatient, but we as investors, invested a lot of NXT/BTC, I would like to know when this coin will launch... can somebody tell me that please. thanks

You can't just create a coin out of thin air, and since we're dealing with a currency, you can't just program something real quick and then throw it in the wild. I'm really surprised by questions like these. I think it's the second one today. If anything I would have imagine it would have taken longer than June, which is the month they are aiming for.

This is not a Litecoin clone where you can simply get the source code and change it around a little.

As for the final stakeholder's list, I don't mean to be rude, but it's obvious that you haven't been following things here. They just finished a public audit to try and determine people with sock puppet accounts. Again, you can't just snap your fingers, go through all accounts and their transactions to find connected account, and have it all done in one day, just to publish the final list.

If you go to the first post of this thread, you can find out more of what has been going on.

[ashapasa]

If there is something to be learned from what is happening to NXT is this:

Try and make the client as "average user" friendly as possible.

Besides distribution, the other thing affecting NXT is that the community seems to refuse to reach out to the average person.

The client itself is horrible for first time users and they have yet to officially release an all-in-one easy to use client.
I mean, you still have to use a really long password and remember it, average Joe gets scared away by this (one of the bad things of the cleint).

The marketing team is basically non-existent and the community is pretentious when it comes to non-tech savvy users.

It seems like NEM will be a really good competitor if it is launched and done right.

From the looks of it, everyone in NEM community is learning for the mistakes of other PoS systems.

QFT.

Seriously, this.

+1
The NEM client needs to be a simple one-click installer, nothing like NXT client.

I agree NEM client needs to be as simple to install as possible, most people are not tech oriented enough to install NXT but all people are potential user if the client is easy to install and simple to use.

[gu7008]

If there is something to be learned from what is happening to NXT is this:

Try and make the client as "average user" friendly as possible.

Besides distribution, the other thing affecting NXT is that the community seems to refuse to reach out to the average person.

The client itself is horrible for first time users and they have yet to officially release an all-in-one easy to use client.
I mean, you still have to use a really long password and remember it, average Joe gets scared away by this (one of the bad things of the cleint).

The marketing team is basically non-existent and the community is pretentious when it comes to non-tech savvy users.

It seems like NEM will be a really good competitor if it is launched and done right.

From the looks of it, everyone in NEM community is learning for the mistakes of other PoS systems.

QFT.

Seriously, this.

+1
The NEM client needs to be a simple one-click installer, nothing like NXT client.

I agree NEM client needs to be as simple to install as possible, most people are not tech oriented enough to install NXT but all people are potential user if the client is easy to install and simple to use.

+1
Once I thought NXT could be the Bitcoin 2.0 and bring better things to humanity, not anymore.

It's been several mouths but NXT still yet have an easy-to-use client, and the horrible distribution for a decentralized currency have not improved a little bit. Nor anyone over there take these as serious problems.

[mladen00]

for coin is better to have IPO with 3000 BCT users than a whole r. Island IPO like Auroracoin has (will have).

[patmast3r]

Any reason why NXT is crashing at the moment?

It seems they are doing a self destructing thing. They are creating a coin called nodecoin. People can get nodecoins almost free by running a separate program when they are forging and running nodes. Then they artificially set a price for these worthless nodecoins. It is 1 nodecoin= 0.01 NXT. How they came up this price is a mystery. If this nodecoin is created by some stranger instead of their own hired programmer, it would be no value and no one will buy it. But this is created by a Nxt hired programmer and he will use the community funds to buy these nodecoins. I doubt that any nxters are willing to buy nodecoins out of their own pockets. but this program controls millions of NXT in the funds. Therefore, the nodecoins suddenly become valuable. In the future, nodecoins will also play a role in other transactions. These worthless coins become valuable at the cost of NXT. This nodecoin will dilute NXT. They said that the nodecoins are for rewarding people running nodes and servers. Why don't they reward people with NXT which can build NXT's utility and value, instead they create a worthless coin to compete with NXT and it could become a potential Trojan horse in NXT. All this is so weird and the most weird thing is that most of the community members even believe that the nodecoin is a good thing.

In a word, NXT community  lacks of leadership.

It could also be that Mastercoin has released their decentralized exchange

[patmast3r]

If there is something to be learned from what is happening to NXT is this:

Try and make the client as "average user" friendly as possible.

Besides distribution, the other thing affecting NXT is that the community seems to refuse to reach out to the average person.

The client itself is horrible for first time users and they have yet to officially release an all-in-one easy to use client.
I mean, you still have to use a really long password and remember it, average Joe gets scared away by this (one of the bad things of the cleint).

The marketing team is basically non-existent and the community is pretentious when it comes to non-tech savvy users.

It seems like NEM will be a really good competitor if it is launched and done right.

From the looks of it, everyone in NEM community is learning for the mistakes of other PoS systems.

QFT.

Seriously, this.

+1
The NEM client needs to be a simple one-click installer, nothing like NXT client.

I agree NEM client needs to be as simple to install as possible, most people are not tech oriented enough to install NXT but all people are potential user if the client is easy to install and simple to use.

++THIS IS MY OPINION NOT A GUARANTEE OR ANYTHING++

From what is planned right now the client will be very easy to install and update. UX will obviously improve over time but good people are spending quite a bit of time on the client so so don't worry

[comecoin21]

any new questions?

[KingCole]

Why does it take so long till the coin will launch? Why does it takes a month to create a final stake holder list. I'm not impatient, but we as investors, invested a lot of NXT/BTC, I would like to know when this coin will launch... can somebody tell me that please. thanks

You can't just create a coin out of thin air, and since we're dealing with a currency, you can't just program something real quick and then throw it in the wild. I'm really surprised by questions like these. I think it's the second one today. If anything I would have imagine it would have taken longer than June, which is the month they are aiming for.

This is not a Litecoin clone where you can simply get the source code and change it around a little.

As for the final stakeholder's list, I don't mean to be rude, but it's obvious that you haven't been following things here. They just finished a public audit to try and determine people with sock puppet accounts. Again, you can't just snap your fingers, go through all accounts and their transactions to find connected account, and have it all done in one day, just to publish the final list.

If you go to the first post of this thread, you can find out more of what has been going on.

Exactly what I was going to write so +1. NEM isn't a cheap clone of an existing coin. Lots is going on and it is all in open on various threads, just read page one

KC

[Hacer88]

I can see we have great developers.

Do we also have a good GUI designer? Like Wesleyh does for NXT?
Because in the end, we need a good looking and simple interface.

[chanc3r]

Any reason why NXT is crashing at the moment?

It seems they are doing a self destructing thing. They are creating a coin called nodecoin. People can get nodecoins almost free by running a separate program when they are forging and running nodes. Then they artificially set a price for these worthless nodecoins. It is 1 nodecoin= 0.01 NXT. How they came up this price is a mystery. If this nodecoin is created by some stranger instead of their own hired programmer, it would be no value and no one will buy it. But this is created by a Nxt hired programmer and he will use the community funds to buy these nodecoins. I doubt that any nxters are willing to buy nodecoins out of their own pockets. but this program controls millions of NXT in the funds. Therefore, the nodecoins suddenly become valuable. In the future, nodecoins will also play a role in other transactions. These worthless coins become valuable at the cost of NXT. This nodecoin will dilute NXT. They said that the nodecoins are for rewarding people running nodes and servers. Why don't they reward people with NXT which can build NXT's utility and value, instead they create a worthless coin to compete with NXT and it could become a potential Trojan horse in NXT. All this is so weird and the most weird thing is that most of the community members even believe that the nodecoin is a good thing.

In a word, NXT community  lacks of leadership.

This is in places inaccurate and I thought I would respond because I think there are things here for NEM to learn, some of which it already deals with...

Number 1 - are PoS rewards enough to maintain the infrastructure you need to have a healthy network to process transactions?... I think the answer is 'Maybe Not/No' - certainly in the early days when transaction volumes are low... NEM has PoI so lets see if this is fixed.

Number 2 - Is NXT Self-Destructing - 'No' - the decentralised Asset Exchange is almost finished, it looks good and people are coming to terms  with what having other things like Assets on the same chain means for your coin. Learning: because people can trade in the assets directly and pay fees in NXT they do not therefore need a lot of NXT to do this.

Number 3 - Assets can be created like 'node coin' this is NOT part of NXT, it has been developed by a member of the community as a way of layering certain things on top of NXT and the reward for running these things is node coin..... This will only have value if people who use those things buy the node coins or node coins find a use.... Learning: If you add an asset exchange you cannot prevent anyone creating an asset idea and trying it out.

I posted earlier a non-PoW coin is harder to make work, others have posted there is no 'overnight get rich quick' scheme, the phases NXT is going through now, NEM will experience in some form so buckle up!

I agree with the point on leadership - despite the BCNext mystery.. there are a lot of bright people working still on NXT, however would it be better if there was a clear and coherent team from the start like NEM has rather than the mystery - yes I believe so.. There are also a lot of other threads besides the 'hosepipe thread' as its been called where a lot of good stuff goes on and the same is true of NEM.

[ashapasa]

chanc3r  thanks for your insights, in your view what is a healthy network. How many forgers do we need to secure NEM?   what if the rewards arenot profitable enough, can NEM survive ?

[patmast3r]

what if the rewards arenot profitable enough, can NEM survive ?

I think forging is not profitable enough in NXT either. I believe that most people running NXT nodes are doing it because they want to support the network. To get rich forging NXT you already need to own a butload of NXT.

POI is supposed to give more incentive to actually use NEM istead of hoarding it. It is also suposed not to give "rich" people so much of an advantage meaning that just because you hold loads of NEM doesn't mean you're going to forage loads.

However the actual reward for foraging comes from the fees people pay (Fee structure is also currently being discussed). If you forage a block with no TX in it then you won't get anything. The more people use NEM the more foraging pays and the more people will likely run nodes.

So a healthy network is one that is actively used

[chanc3r]

chanc3r  thanks for your insights, in your view what is a healthy network. How many forgers do we need to secure NEM?   what if the rewards arenot profitable enough, can NEM survive ?

I think the NEM team already understand some of the need to address this... part of it is multi thousand stake distribution, why wouldn't all stakeholders run a NEM node? part of it is PoI so new smaller holders can still get rewards as I understand it.

NXT and NEM are different beasts because of this and until we see NEM we cannot answer some of these questions but like I say I take comfort that by the announcements, the clear  leadership, lessons have already been learned...

Waiting and seeing is part of the fun

Ian

[mr smith]

what if the rewards arenot profitable enough, can NEM survive ?

I think forging is not profitable enough in NXT either. I believe that most people running NXT nodes are doing it because they want to support the network. To get rich forging NXT you already need to own a butload of NXT.

POI is supposed to give more incentive to actually use NEM istead of hoarding it. It is also suposed not to give "rich" people so much of an advantage meaning that just because you hold loads of NEM doesn't mean you're going to forage loads.

However the actual reward for foraging comes from the fees people pay (Fee structure is also currently being discussed). If you forage a block with no TX in it then you won't get anything. The more people use NEM the more foraging pays and the more people will likely run nodes.

So a healthy network is one that is actively used

Yes i think it takes more than 73 nodes. Idea BTC injects 25 coins to keep miners happy. What would stop NEM from doing similar ?

[ashapasa]

by 73 nodes if you mean 73 computers its not hard at all  .

[patmast3r]

Yes i think it takes more than 73 nodes. Idea BTC injects 25 coins to keep miners happy. What would stop NEM from doing similar ?

What's keeping NEM from doing this is that all NEMs already exist at the time of lanch and all of them will be distributed. There are no 25 NEMs to "inject" for each block that's why fees are used for this. You would have to take away NEMs from peoples accounts which would feel almost like a tax and eventhough it would probably be very very very low i think people would still hate it.
BTCs are still being "created" and those new BTCs are then distributed among miners.

[chanc3r]

Yes i think it takes more than 73 nodes. Idea BTC injects 25 coins to keep miners happy. What would stop NEM from doing similar ?

PoW is adding to global warming as more and more people burn electricity chasing fewer and fewer coins...
When the BTC block reward drops to 12.5 which it will do, listen for the howls of anguish...
Miners are never happy - go visit some of the hardware communities.

Lets see what PoI delivers... but people need to USE NEM to create transaction fees otherwise it doesn't matter what Po* we use the income from the nodes will be zero.

[ashapasa]

Yes i think it takes more than 73 nodes. Idea BTC injects 25 coins to keep miners happy. What would stop NEM from doing similar ?

PoW is adding to global warming as more and more people burn electricity chasing fewer and fewer coins...
When the BTC block reward drops to 12.5 which it will do, listen for the howls of anguish...
Miners are never happy - go visit some of the hardware communities.

Lets see what PoI delivers... but people need to USE NEM to create transaction fees otherwise it doesn't matter what Po* we use the income from the nodes will be zero.

Which again leads us back to the fundamental question  , why would people use NEM? when they have bitcoin or Ripple or NXT? They are more established and in money matters trust is the single most important factor. 

I think we can attract MINERS to use NEM because of POI giving them equal opportunity to forge but they are not nearly important as actual users.

[patmast3r]

I think we can attract MINERS to use NEM because of POI giving them equal opportunity to forge but they are not nearly important as actual users.

Miners will never hop on non-POW currencies. No matter how profitable forging/foraging would be - it's just not the same.

[ashapasa]

I think we can attract MINERS to use NEM because of POI giving them equal opportunity to forge but they are not nearly important as actual users.

Miners will never hop on non-POW currencies. No matter how profitable forging/foraging would be - it's just not the same.

I must disagree, most miners are in it for profit, they will switch it its profitable. Users are the real customers its them we must convince.