[ANN][HUC] Huntercoin - Worlds First Decentralized Game/World on the Blockchain

[wiggi]

There are other ways to fix it, too. For example, if some players issue transactions in one block, and some confirm in the next block but not all of them, the gamestate could choose not to update until all of the transactions are confirmed, giving each player an equal chance.

This is unfortunately not very straight-forward to do.  There's no network consensus about unconfirmed transactions (that's precisely why they are still unconfirmed), so one cannot take them into account for consensus-stuff like game-state transitions.  (There might be more complex hacks around this in some way, but I doubt one can find a good solution that fully retains Huntercoin's trustlessness and decentralisation.)

This also makes it more difficult to have some kind of "diplomacy feature" in Huntercoin. If 2 hunters would agree to not attack each other and, should one still kill the other,  automatically pay compensation to the victim (must be worth more than a hunter, different technical problem), how can the game engine know who attacked first.

Perhaps a practical solution would divide all hunters into groups (same algo like checking who would get hit by chain lightning with unlimited hops). If an hunter that is is not under contract would get hit then all hunters in the group are in a warzone where collateral damage is to be expected and you could kill anyone without penalty.

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[magaura]

perfect timing for the pump ..btc down

[Daffadile]

I spawned by a nice collection fo coins then some yellow fool came and killed me. It seems like it will take forver to get 100huc and I will lose my hero before then so how is this profitable ? Please some advice. Thank you.

[snailbrain]

I spawned by a nice collection fo coins then some yellow fool came and killed me. It seems like it will take forver to get 100huc and I will lose my hero before then so how is this profitable ? Please some advice. Thank you.

Best way is to probably avoid pvp until we improve game mechanics or until you can out wit the enemy.. may be by using more than 1 hunter.

If you stand on the spawn area or a star, you will bank and despawn .. you will get get your 100 hunter cost back.
You only need to collect more than 1 huc to be profitable per hunter) and not die in pvp.

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

I spawned by a nice collection fo coins then some yellow fool came and killed me. It seems like it will take forver to get 100huc and I will lose my hero before then so how is this profitable ? Please some advice. Thank you.

Use hit and run tactics, take coins, get out of there before he can kill you. I also like to choose a color for my Hunters that the dominating players' favor, which makes it impossible for you to attack each other. Then I just take all the coins I can. His only way to counter this is to use more different colors, which could make him worse at PVP with other dominators.

[domob]

This also makes it more difficult to have some kind of "diplomacy feature" in Huntercoin. If 2 hunters would agree to not attack each other and, should one still kill the other,  automatically pay compensation to the victim (must be worth more than a hunter, different technical problem), how can the game engine know who attacked first.

For such a truce pact feature, you could just require that only one attacks the other.  If both attack each other, noone gets any money.  The compensation payment will give an incentive to the one who's being attacked to not attack themselves, so it should work out.

I've actually thought a bit more about the issue here, and I think it might indeed be possible to use a delay here (as suggested by Bitcoin Co-Op).  The idea is that we advance the game state only every N blocks, using all transactions confirmed in the last N blocks (considered to be at the same time).  Then even if some miners do not like your transactions, you are fine as long as any one picks it, which should be fine unless a big chunk of the hash rate colludes against your transaction (and assuming the "attacking" miners are not actually in the majority and orphaning blocks just for this purpose).  An issue here is that players are incentivised to wait until the last block in the time window, since then they can best react on others moves (but then it is their problem to balance this with transaction confirmation).

Note that I don't think any miner is actually attacking any players in this way - this is mostly theoretical.

[Icon]

Or could remove pvp all together and hunt AI's mine and attack npc that carry large amount of huc's but would need alot of hunters to bring the AI down. Kinda like a fort game? But still would be in the same boat, the roll of the dice . who hit who first,etc.

Also waiting on N # to show up would that not make the game even slower?

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[OKorator]

Noob help...

I get all the way to seeing the map, go to create a new hunter, enter info, click ok and nothing...

I have 1200 HUC, enough to create a hunter, but never see him appear nor my total go down.  Help!

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

I've actually thought a bit more about the issue here, and I think it might indeed be possible to use a delay here (as suggested by Bitcoin Co-Op).  The idea is that we advance the game state only every N blocks, using all transactions confirmed in the last N blocks (considered to be at the same time).  Then even if some miners do not like your transactions, you are fine as long as any one picks it, which should be fine unless a big chunk of the hash rate colludes against your transaction (and assuming the "attacking" miners are not actually in the majority and orphaning blocks just for this purpose).  An issue here is that players are incentivised to wait until the last block in the time window, since then they can best react on others moves (but then it is their problem to balance this with transaction confirmation).

Maybe you could nullify the latter problem you've stated here (as well as other problems with blockchain gaming, in general) if we had some way to obscure data in transactions such as moves ordered on the map. Any efforts to implement fog of war could be synergistic, there. Can't see where they're going, then waiting for the last block in the set is useless

Noob help...

I get all the way to seeing the map, go to create a new hunter, enter info, click ok and nothing...

I have 1200 HUC, enough to create a hunter, but never see him appear nor my total go down.  Help!

Did you use the all-in-one installer and is your client fully synced with the blockchain and gamestate?

[OKorator]

I've actually thought a bit more about the issue here, and I think it might indeed be possible to use a delay here (as suggested by Bitcoin Co-Op).  The idea is that we advance the game state only every N blocks, using all transactions confirmed in the last N blocks (considered to be at the same time).  Then even if some miners do not like your transactions, you are fine as long as any one picks it, which should be fine unless a big chunk of the hash rate colludes against your transaction (and assuming the "attacking" miners are not actually in the majority and orphaning blocks just for this purpose).  An issue here is that players are incentivised to wait until the last block in the time window, since then they can best react on others moves (but then it is their problem to balance this with transaction confirmation).

Maybe you could nullify the latter problem you've stated here (as well as other problems with blockchain gaming, in general) if we had some way to obscure data in transactions such as moves ordered on the map. Any efforts to implement fog of war could be synergistic, there. Can't see where they're going, then waiting for the last block in the set is useless

Noob help...

I get all the way to seeing the map, go to create a new hunter, enter info, click ok and nothing...

I have 1200 HUC, enough to create a hunter, but never see him appear nor my total go down.  Help!

Did you use the all-in-one installer and is your client fully synced with the blockchain and gamestate?

Yes, and yes fully synced on blockchain.  Not sure how to see sync on gamestate, but appears to be synced as it goes up a block every so often.

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

Noob help...

I get all the way to seeing the map, go to create a new hunter, enter info, click ok and nothing...

I have 1200 HUC, enough to create a hunter, but never see him appear nor my total go down.  Help!

Did you use the all-in-one installer and is your client fully synced with the blockchain and gamestate?

Yes, and yes fully synced on blockchain.  Not sure how to see sync on gamestate, but appears to be synced as it goes up a block every so often.

Which link/download exactly did you use to get your installer? Maybe posting a screenshot would help for when a developers hops on the forum. Gotta make sure you're not pressing a wrong button or something

[OKorator]

I used this to download...

All in One - Huntercore v0.13 + Unity3d 1.22+ Pruned Chain - 500mb Download
For New Users - this should get you up and running with a huntercoin wallet + unity3d client in the time it takes to download + a few minutes of syncing >>
Windows > https://mega.nz/#!pdUznRiJ!oEDFIU6ctJWm9zmIcalEXQP8wkmiB9itY2Ipole-0ow


Everything appears synced.  When i go to create a new hunter, and wait a few blocks, nothing appears

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

Did the names of any of the other Hunters you attempted to create contain non-letter characters, as well? I think I recall seeing that issue, before.

[OKorator]

Did the names of any of the other Hunters you attempted to create contain non-letter characters, as well? I think I recall seeing that issue, before.

I tried a few names... as simple as "asdg" or something, i tried filling in the address and leaving it blank as well.  Different colors too just in case that mattered.  Also checked my firewall just in case, but it appears connected.  I'm certain its me and not the software based on others not having the same issue.

[OSYA]

How can I determine the speed of the network in specific practical algorithms?
If I understand correctly, in sha about 60 Th/s

[jwinterm]

How can I determine the speed of the network in specific practical algorithms?
If I understand correctly, in sha about 60 Th/s

From the 'getmininginfo' command I get:

  "difficulty_sha256d": 7183376.892611442,
  "difficulty_scrypt": 1927.887615271912,

which you can translate to hash per second I think as:
networkhashps = diff*14436620

So I get for network hashrates:
Sha = 104 Th/s
Scrypt = 27 Gh/s

For frame of reference, these values are about 3% of the bitcoin network and 1% of the litecoin network, respectively. It's kind of weird, Myriadcoin, which also merge mines both sha and scrypt (in addition to three other non merge-mined algos) has about 10x higher hashrate on sha and 15 or 20x higher on scrypt. Not sure why it would get so much more merged hash...

[wiggi]

This also makes it more difficult to have some kind of "diplomacy feature" in Huntercoin. If 2 hunters would agree to not attack each other and, should one still kill the other,  automatically pay compensation to the victim (must be worth more than a hunter, different technical problem), how can the game engine know who attacked first.

For such a truce pact feature, you could just require that only one attacks the other.  If both attack each other, noone gets any money.  The compensation payment will give an incentive to the one who's being attacked to not attack themselves, so it should work out.

Yes, this would be the easiest way, and probably not gameable

I've actually thought a bit more about the issue here, and I think it might indeed be possible to use a delay here (as suggested by Bitcoin Co-Op).  The idea is that we advance the game state only every N blocks, using all transactions confirmed in the last N blocks (considered to be at the same time).  Then even if some miners do not like your transactions, you are fine as long as any one picks it, which should be fine unless a big chunk of the hash rate colludes against your transaction (and assuming the "attacking" miners are not actually in the majority and orphaning blocks just for this purpose).  An issue here is that players are incentivised to wait until the last block in the time window, since then they can best react on others moves (but then it is their problem to balance this with transaction confirmation).

Note that I don't think any miner is actually attacking any players in this way - this is mostly theoretical.

Players would be incentivised to wait until they have seen the others moves, but to wait until the last block in the time window is a dangerous strategy. It would be a game of chicken, trying to make the opponent to reveal their moves.

But depends on the game. If moves are not simultaneous, like in most turn based games, then one side can have their move at block 10, 20, 30 etc, and the other side moves at block 15, 25, 35.

[wiggi]

It's kind of weird, Myriadcoin, which also merge mines both sha and scrypt (in addition to three other non merge-mined algos) has about 10x higher hashrate on sha and 15 or 20x higher on scrypt. Not sure why it would get so much more merged hash...

Myriadcoin doesn't have a game to feed
Imho if the block time is higher (5 minutes per algo for Myriadcoin) this also translates into higher nominal difficulty.

[jwinterm]

It's kind of weird, Myriadcoin, which also merge mines both sha and scrypt (in addition to three other non merge-mined algos) has about 10x higher hashrate on sha and 15 or 20x higher on scrypt. Not sure why it would get so much more merged hash...

Myriadcoin doesn't have a game to feed
Imho if the block time is higher (5 minutes per algo for Myriadcoin) this also translates into higher nominal difficulty.

Good point. I actually just grabbed formula for myriadcoin diff from a bot I run that includes block time in formula, so these numbers might be off by a factor of 2.5 or so, will check again later tonight.

[jwinterm]

It's kind of weird, Myriadcoin, which also merge mines both sha and scrypt (in addition to three other non merge-mined algos) has about 10x higher hashrate on sha and 15 or 20x higher on scrypt. Not sure why it would get so much more merged hash...

Myriadcoin doesn't have a game to feed
Imho if the block time is higher (5 minutes per algo for Myriadcoin) this also translates into higher nominal difficulty.

OK, so formula is:

Code:

hashrate = difficulty * (2^256 / max_target / intended_time_per_block)

from here: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/5556/relationship-between-hash-rate-and-difficulty

Assuming max_target is the same and intended time per block is 120 s, we get:

Code:

hashrate = difficutly * 35791940

So for current diffs:

  "difficulty_sha256d": 5773869.380021635,
  "difficulty_scrypt": 1924.028806886702,

Sha hashrate = 207 Th/s
Scrypt hashrate = 68.9 Gh/s

The diffs changed a bit from earlier calculation, but these are more or less double (should be a bit more than double). I'm not sure why Myriadcoin not having a game soaking up 80% of coins makes it more attractive to merge mine for ASIC owners. It does have three other algos for GPUs and CPUs soaking up 60% of coins, and free coins are free coins, right?