1GH/s, 20w, $500 — Butterflylabs, is it a scam?

[P4man]

There already is a nice betting pool, I even bet some coins there but for some reason goat doesnt want to use it.
Sorry to get you dragged in to this

Ill send them as soon as you publish the address.

oh and for my part, feel free to collect a small fee for your trouble.

[P4man]

You can bet as many as you want here:
http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=141
With better odds!

BTW, no need for this attitude. you are the only doing all the shouting and bragging, Ive never even taken a position on wether BFL is legit or not, because I dont know; whatever I am willing to bet is my business. Why dont you put your money where you mouth is, and send 10.000 BTC to Inaba for anyone willing to bet against? Including Butterfly labs if they want to.

[gmaxwell]

I just wanted to say that you guys are quite awesome betting here like gentlemen without threats, name calling, etc. It restores a bit of faith in these threads for me. Why can't the alt. currency losers do it this way?

Altcoin style would be to bet like gentlemen then set the building on fire to ensure outcomes.

[rjk]

I just wanted to say that you guys are quite awesome betting here like gentlemen without threats, name calling, etc. It restores a bit of faith in these threads for me. Why can't the alt. currency losers do it this way?

Altcoin style would be to bet like gentlemen then set the building on fire to ensure outcomes.

Don't be giving anyone ideas

[Mousepotato]

Too bad Moonco.in isn't around anymore so we could make these bets official.

[P4man]

Where you not the one claiming that I was not really willing to bet? I will have to reread the thread when I have time.

Yes and by putting up 20 BTC you are hardly disproving me.
If you are indeed willing to bet what you say you are (reminder: *I* never made any claims about my willingness to bet) and you trust inaba with your money, you would send him those $10.000 and wait and see who, if anyone,  picks up the gauntlet, even for even odds. THAT would disprove me. THAT would be putting your money were your mouth is. And THAT is what I say you will not do. Prove me wrong.

Dont wait for people to post here that they will accept, because the moment they do for any non trivial amount of money, you can just weasel out. All you risk is your face, but not your money.  Send only 1000 BTC to inaba for anyone to bet against at even odds, even if no one has pledged to match it, and I will take those words back. Until then you are just shouting and making meaningless noises.

I will match any ones bet on 2 to 1 odds assuming they support what BF labs says is true.  Just give me 48 hours as from time to time I am involved in extreme work. I am helping the Thai government manage the flooding right now and honestly access to internet constantly is well hopeful.

Good luck with that.

[bulanula]

This is really getting more real by the minute. Their offices do certainly seem to be legit now but the wonder dust product is nowhere to be found ...

[fred0]

I noticed that their rig box is going on pre-order Nov 25.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Too bad Moonco.in isn't around anymore so we could make these bets official.

You can make it official here
http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=141

Goat just likes to make simple things very complicated by having a human do (and take 37 posts) what a computer can do instantly.

[sadpandatech]

Here's a couple pictures of the two buildings in question I just took (from the opposite side of street of each building in question):

http://eclipsemc.com/files/IMAG0048.jpg
http://eclipsemc.com/files/IMAG0049.jpg

They look the same to me.  I would say the pictures are taken from the 3rd or 4th floor of Chambers Lofts.

Yes, the lofts are locked and the only way in is a keypad or access card.  I think there is actually an intercom on the keypad, but I don't fancy the idea of calling people randomly from the keypad and demanding access, nor do I think BFL would want someone randomly showing up at the door.

  Looking closely at these nicer pics it almost looks like the first few floors in Chambers Lofts are offices. Note the flourescent ceiling lights in a few of the windows. And just the oversized nature of some of the windows would suggest such.  It would not be hard to call the leasing agent for that building and ask if they rent office space.. I posted a link with her number a few pages back....

[Inaba]

Thank you Inaba for your help in this. Can I ask about your pool? What are your fees and do you have merged mining? I am a KC local (most of my life) and found out this guys location rather early on in this thread. The admins have threatened to ban me twice now for posting relevant information.

Eclipse Mining Consortium (https://eclipsemc.com) is a no fee pool.  We use the Double Geometric reward system and we have merged mining (I think third or 4th pool to offer it?)... Solved 313 NMC blocks so far.  We are also the only pool to offer direct Paypal payouts in USD instead of BTC.  Paypal payouts in NMC are coming soon.

Sorry to derail the thread a bit, but I'm a shameless pimp.

[Inaba]

Here's a new escrow address for a second bet:

1PuepC3QTWsveqHx64FKUaQnp2jHQzmpHZ

[P4man]

Yes, I said 10, Ive just sent 10.
Are you going to send 10000 or just 1000 to inaba or are you willing to only risk small change and your face, but not that kind of money?

[P4man]

IOW, you are still only risking small change and hinging your reputation on the assumption no one will bet you for 1000s of BTCs. But you are not actually taking the risk by sending 1000.
Q.E.D.

Butterfly Labs, please step forward and bet this man 1000BTC so we can see what his word is worth. Im betting 10 BTC he wont take the bet .

[P4man]

Its not difficult to understand. Its only difficult if you  pretend you do not see the difference.

One last time: as long as you have not actually sent the coins, to inaba or any other broker, you have not committed to anything and you can always back out with lame excuses when for instance butterfly labs says they accept your bet. You will lose internet connection for weeks, claim some theft or your wallet or whatever excuse. If you have already sent them, then you can not back out and then and only then do you actually risk losing the money rather than losing only face. And you would back out. I got 10 coins that say so .

So despite all the bold claims, you are not willing to put up that kind of money. You only want to make lots of noise and see if anyone would take you up on your bet. The only bet you are taking is small change and betting your face on the fact no one will bet 1000's worth of BTC against you. Since you dont seem to have much of a reputation, thats hardly very brave.

[DeathAndTaxes]

I could have told you that about Goat before this "betting" started.

He loves to make things overly complex, involving hundreds of pages of posts.
There is an open public and verifiable betting service w/ a line on this event.  No reason for anything more complicated than that.  Nice thing about public betting pool is that you can at a glance get an idea of the sentiment of betters.  If money is laid 50:1 that it is a scam well that shows the sentiment of what people who put their money where their mouth is think.

[sadpandatech]

Butterfly Labs, please step forward and bet this man 1000BTC so we can see what his word is worth. Im betting 10 BTC he wont take the bet .

  Oh, oh, side bets! w00t.  *remembers he's not a gambler*   

[Mousepotato]

I'm not willing to bet either way.  I've seen operations where there's a small rinky dink US-based office but all development and production is out of Korea/China/Taiwan/whatevz. 

[P4man]

 Oh, oh, side bets! w00t.  *remembers he's not a gambler*  

Its not gambling if you know the answer

Ok, I dont know if BFL is legit or not, so that is a gamble, but its peanuts money and the odds look good.

But betting that Goat wont be betting $10.000, thats zero risk. Have a look here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49372.0

Goat's saying he is in debt and asking on this forum for a $1000 loan so he doesnt have to sell his GPUs. But one would believe he has $10.000 and he'd risk that on a bet?
Ha!

If you believe that, then I have a 1 terrahash FPGA to sell to you. For only 10 BTC

[runeks]

But betting that Goat wont be betting $10.000, thats zero risk. Have a look here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49372.0

Goat's saying he is in debt and asking on this forum for a $1000 loan so he doesnt have to sell his GPUs. But one would believe he has $10.000 and he'd risk that on a bet?
Ha!

Then he better not hope the BitForce miner is real, or he'd become even more indebted:

$10000? Okay, I will pledge I will pay $10000 in cash on site or in bitcoin for this product if it works. After it is tested! I am well know in the KC area and known to have the cash on hand if needed.

Regarding the Bets of Bitcoin bet, I'd have to agree somewhat with Goat here; it's obviously not set up properly. Betting is allowed until January 1st, 2012. So if Butterfly Labs delivers within the 4 weeks time frame they promise as the earliest, anyone can go to that bet and bet 1000 BTC that they will deliver and take home some of the winnings, risk free. I know it's time weighted, so they'll make less money than the ones who made the early bets, but I argue that they shouldn't make any money at all, when they bet after outcome has been determined. The betting deadline for the bet should be way sooner, maybe in a week or so.

In my opinion, it's less than optimal to make a bet on something for which you don't know the odds. This is the case with Bets of Bitcoin. I could make a bet on Bets of Bitcoin thinking the odds are great, and someone who agrees with me could go in afterwards and bet 10 times as much, completely changing the odds for me. It doesn't make any sense to bet your money unless you know the odds beforehand, in my opinion.