1GH/s, 20w, $500 — Butterflylabs, is it a scam?

[Transisto]

What makes you do?

Did you ask mommy to use the INTERNET?

What fucking ever you have to say, no need to quote the whole irrelevant thing.

[plastic.elastic]

Did you ask mommy to use the INTERNET?«

No, I asked your mom. And she let me before i gave her an orgasm overdose.

Uh huh, just as i expect from you.

Way to prove my point

[plastic.elastic]

What makes you do?

Did you ask mommy to use the INTERNET?

What fucking ever you have to say, no need to quote the whole irrelevant thing.

Please state your right to talk in here ( as pointed out by the kid above you),

otherwise everything you said is irrelevant

Qui?

[amazingrando]

We need more info/rumors to speculate on.  ^^ The natives are getting restless.  They must feed!!

[Raoul Duke]

The shoe is fitting... and they proudly wear it... suckers!

[sadpandatech]

We need more info/rumors to speculate on.  ^^ The natives are getting restless.  They must feed!!

 haha, yea. I'd be happy to see one toss sparks and take the computer down with it at this point. ;p

[bulanula]

Inaba, any news so far ? Have they sorted out the tech problems ? What problems are they having ? Thanks. Let us not degrade this thread further with such offensive language.

[Turbor]

Looks like some guys lose their patience

[Inaba]

I've not heard from them today as of yet. I just sent an email inquiring about progress just prior to posting this, so they should get back to me at some point this evening I'd think.

[runeks]

I received a response from PayPal regarding my inquiry. Turns out DeathAndTaxes isn't right. Chargebacks are only guaranteed when you purchase from eBay. (Emphasis added)

From:    webform@intl.paypal.com
To:    Rune Svendsen <snip>
Subject:    Re: Disputes (ID: C208-L001-T13021-S111-W000000)  (KMM19841394V97921L0KM) :ppk4
Date:    Mon, 28 Nov 2011 16:32:29 +0000 (GMT) (2011-11-28 17:32:29)


Dear Rune Svendsen,

 

Thank you for contacting PayPal, I am happy to be able to resolve your issue regarding the buyer protection policy.

                                                                               

Firstly please allow me to apologise for the delay in a response to your email. Due to the high volume of contacts we are currently receiving, it is taking slightly longer than normal for us to respond to our customers, and we thank you for your patience.

I have read your email and I can confirm you have 45 days from the date of your transaction date to open a buyer dispute against the seller.

We provide buyers with two protection programmes:

      * PayPal Buyer Protection
      * PayPal Buyer Complaint Policy

PayPal Buyer Protection applies to items you bought on eBay and paid for with PayPal. If you didn’t receive your item or your item is significantly not as described, you might be eligible for a refund. With this policy, you can open a dispute in the Resolution Centre and communicate with the seller to resolve the problem. If you can’t resolve the problem with the seller, you can ask us to investigate by escalating the dispute to a claim.

The PayPal Buyer Complaint Policy allows you to report a problem with an item you didn’t buy on eBay. You can open a dispute in the Resolution Center if you didn’t receive the item or the item is significantly not as described.

If you didn’t receive the item and you can’t resolve the problem with the seller, you can ask us to investigate by escalating your dispute to a claim. If we decide you are eligible for a refund, the amount you will receive is limited to the amount we can recover from the seller’s PayPal account balance.

If you received an item that was significantly not as described and you can’t resolve the problem with the seller, you cannot escalate the dispute to a claim. We don’t have access to original product descriptions for items that are not sold on eBay. We need the original product description to decide whether an item is significantly not as described.

Both PayPal Buyer Protection and the PayPal Buyer Complaint Policy only apply to physical goods that are posted and tracked. Intangible items, such as downloaded software or airline tickets are not eligible for PayPal Buyer Protection or the PayPal Buyer Complaint Policy. To learn more about PayPal's protection policies, click ‘Legal Agreements’ on the bottom of any PayPal page, and then click ‘User Agreement.’

I can only advise you if you if you are waiting on an item that will take more than 45 day to be delivered to your address I would strongly recommend to be covered under the buyer protection to still open a buyer dispute as you can always close the dispute once you receive your item.

It has been my pleasure to assist you today and I hope that I have given you the information needed to resolve this issue. Please let me know if you require further assistance

Yours sincerely,

Sharon

PayPal

 

Copyright © 1999-2011 PayPal. All rights reserved.

 

PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. et Cie, S.C.A.

Société en Commandite par Actions

Registered Office: 22-24 Boulevard Royal L-2449, Luxembourg

RCS Luxembourg B 118 349

 

Original Message Follows: ------------------------

Form Message
customer subject:    legacy
customer message:    >Topic: 'Disputes'
>Sub Topic: 'Buyer Complaints'
>message: 'Hi
>I would like to know how the PayPal Buyer Protection works in the case of pre-orders. On the PayPal help page it says that the seller has the amount of time to ship the order that was stated on the seller's order page, in this case 4-8 weeks.
>My right to file a dispute is only valid until 45 days after I have made the payment, as far as I have understood. This is 6.5 weeks, which means if I allow the seller 8 weeks to ship my item, and he fails to do so, I have no ability to file a dispute and thus reclaim my payment. Is this correctly understood?
>
>Kind regards,
>Rune Svendsen'

?

[worldinacoin]

It is troublesome to open any disputes with Paypal, I rather wait for the product to be verified before buying.

[DeathAndTaxes]

I received a response from PayPal regarding my inquiry. Turns out DeathAndTaxes isn't right. Chargebacks are only guaranteed when you purchase from eBay. (Emphasis added)

Ouch.  Pretty assholish for Paypal to call it the Buyer Protection when it only applies to Ebay purchases.  I have to think that is intentional double speak.  IF they wanted to be clear why not have Ebay Buyer protection policy and Paypal General Buyer protection policy. 

So looks like your rights for non-ebay chargebacks are next to nothing.  If I am reading that right, from that email it looks like the seller could ship a brick (literally) and you would have no resource.   Sound about right?

[bittenbob]

Paypal is a joke and it doesn't even cover all Ebay purchases. I got scammed once and it cost me about $40 for a supposed legit windows key. I was informed that the buyer protection does not apply to digital objects. Funny because the ebay ad even said it was eligible for purchase protection. Ever since then I have been very bitter about them. Good luck with trying to get your money back.

I received a response from PayPal regarding my inquiry. Turns out DeathAndTaxes isn't right. Chargebacks are only guaranteed when you purchase from eBay. (Emphasis added)

Ouch.  Pretty assholish for Paypal to call it the Buyer Protection when it only applies to Ebay purchases.  I have to think that is intentional double speak.  IF they wanted to be clear why not have Ebay Buyer protection policy and Paypal General Buyer protection policy. 

So looks like your rights for non-ebay chargebacks are next to nothing.  If I am reading that right, from that email it looks like the seller could ship a brick (literally) and you would have no resource.   Sound about right?

[runeks]

I received a response from PayPal regarding my inquiry. Turns out DeathAndTaxes isn't right. Chargebacks are only guaranteed when you purchase from eBay. (Emphasis added)

Ouch.  Pretty assholish for Paypal to call it the Buyer Protection when it only applies to Ebay purchases.  I have to think that is intentional double speak.  IF they wanted to be clear why not have Ebay Buyer protection policy and Paypal General Buyer protection policy. 

So looks like your rights for non-ebay chargebacks are next to nothing.  If I am reading that right, from that email it looks like the seller could ship a brick (literally) and you would have no resource.   Sound about right?

Yup. And this isn't even clear in the PayPal User Agreement you linked to. I've gone over the relevant sections a couple of times but I can't find it stated explicitly.

I have no worries though since I cancelled my order. Not mainly because of the above, but because I don't want to spend almost $600 on this kind of hardware even if it is legitimate. If it is, then the difficulty isn't going to stay this low for long, and this device won't even pay itself back in the 7 months I originally figured out. Plus Bitcoin prices could fall, or any other number of things could go wrong, resulting in a loss from an investment like this. I think I'd rather get an FPGA myself and play around with if I really want to have low power mining. Seems more fun and cheaper too (if I can get some educational rebate).

Oh, and the cancellation was swift, and the response polite. PayPal has already notified me that my payment has been refunded. I'm not sure yet that these guys are legit, but if I had to bet my money on something it'd be that they are. They're just too polite to be scammers! (yeah yeah, I know )

[Eveofwar]

I received a response from PayPal regarding my inquiry. Turns out DeathAndTaxes isn't right. Chargebacks are only guaranteed when you purchase from eBay. (Emphasis added)

Ouch.  Pretty assholish for Paypal to call it the Buyer Protection when it only applies to Ebay purchases.  I have to think that is intentional double speak.  IF they wanted to be clear why not have Ebay Buyer protection policy and Paypal General Buyer protection policy. 

So looks like your rights for non-ebay chargebacks are next to nothing.  If I am reading that right, from that email it looks like the seller could ship a brick (literally) and you would have no resource.   Sound about right?

Unless, it was a brick...that you were purchasing

[Littleshop]

If you pay from a paypal balance and do not use ebay, you have no guaranteed protection.  Paypal COULD side with you, but they might not.  Even if they do side with you, if they can not recover funds you still get no refund.

If you pay by a credit card you get more protection.  Just do not make the mistake of dealing with your credit card first with the dispute.  Try the dispute with paypal, even though it may fail.  This SHOULD give you the ability to keep your paypal account if you would like it in the future.   If the paypal dispute fails, then deal with your credit card company for a refund.  If nothing was shipped, the odds are you will get your money back up to three months.  Because you filed a dispute with paypal first (you followed paypals rules) they can not set your account to negative after the chargeback EVEN THOUGH YOU LOST THE FIRST DISPUTE WITH PAYPAL.  

Some credit cards, like AMEX, will allow a chargeback even six months down the line.  

[runeks]

Unless, it was a brick...that you were purchasing

Yeah I'm sure BricksOnline.com aren't appreciative of the insinuation that they are scammers! Sure, the shipping adds up... but they have so many colors!

[DeathAndTaxes]

So no rescheduled demo tonight?

[worldinacoin]

Is the demo going to come or is there no demo after all?

[plastic.elastic]

Is the demo going to come or is there no demo after all?

Well, one guy charged back his order so no demo for you!