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Author Topic: DefaultTrust changes  (Read 47357 times)
nutildah
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July 09, 2019, 03:32:17 PM
 #1761

DT member sent negative feedback to victim and opposed red flag together with some other signature participants Cool

Maybe social experiment system needs additional changes?

I realized that I haven't changed my signature yet (will do tomorrow morning) so I may come off as a shill, but its up to DT1 to vote out kzv, as that is who put him on DT2.

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LoyceV
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July 09, 2019, 03:38:37 PM
 #1762

Lauda should be blacklisted for what happened when the flag system was implemented
I think it's commendable that theymos is trying to not be a dictator here.
Update: Lauda has been removed from DT1.

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July 09, 2019, 03:58:45 PM
 #1763

Lauda should be blacklisted for what happened when the flag system was implemented
I think it's commendable that theymos is trying to not be a dictator here.
Update: Lauda has been removed from DT1.

Whoa, you were fast on detecting that. Is there any official reason why? I do agree with your previous statement in that making the process more democratic a step forward.

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July 09, 2019, 04:07:35 PM
 #1764

Lauda should be blacklisted for what happened when the flag system was implemented
I think it's commendable that theymos is trying to not be a dictator here.
Update: Lauda has been removed from DT1.
Great! This is an appropriate change for the reasons I previously cited. It is also appropriate to blacklist him manually rather than let it happen over time also for the reasons cited previously, although he may have requested to be blacklisted.

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July 09, 2019, 04:37:28 PM
 #1765

I realized that I haven't changed my signature yet (will do tomorrow morning) so I may come off as a shill, but its up to DT1 to vote out kzv, as that is who put him on DT2.

I have excluded Vadi2323. I can understand opposing a flag but red trust is inappropriate.

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July 09, 2019, 04:38:21 PM
Last edit: August 17, 2019, 11:33:43 AM by LoyceMobile
 #1766

Lauda had (2) net-inclusions on DT1.
Lauda now has 6 net-inclusions on DT2.
Lauda got blacklisted from DT1.

I have 2 scenarios
1: suppose Lauda wasn't blacklisted, but got 3 more exclusions from other DT1 members. That would mean Lauda was removed from DefaultTrust entirely.

2: the current state (Lauda blacklisted from DT1). Now suppose Lauda gets the same 3 exclusions from DT1. That would mean Lauda still has 3 net-inclusions on DT2 and remains on DefaultTrust.

This means it is possible that a DT1-exclusion leads to a member being on DT2 which wouldn't happen without blacklisting. This is probably caused by the fact that excluded DT1-members can vote against other DT1-members, but they can't vote against DT2-members.
Is that the intended behaviour of the DefaultTrust system?

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July 09, 2019, 04:48:35 PM
 #1767

Lauda had (2) net-inclusions on DT1.
Lauda now has 6 net-inclusions on DT2.
Lauda got blacklisted from DT1.

I have 2 scenarios
1: suppose Lauda wasn't blacklisted, but got 3 more exclusions from other DT1 members. That would mean Lauda was removed from DefaultTrust entirely.

2: the current state (Lauda blacklisted from DT1). Now suppose Lauda gets the same 3 exclusions from DT1. That would mean Lauda still has 3 net-inclusions on DT2 and remains on DefaultTrust.

Am I correct here? If so, it is possible that a DT1-exclusion leads to a member being on DT2 which wouldn't happen without blacklisting. This is probably caused by the fact that excluded DT1-members can vote against other DT1-members, but they can't vote against DT2-members.
Is that the intended behaviour of the DefaultTrust system?
No. if Lauda is excluded from DT1, he cannot be on DT2. I think your assumptions as to whose votes count might be flawed.

If you are on DT1, your trust list flows down regardless if your ratings show up or not.

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July 09, 2019, 04:57:08 PM
 #1768

No. if Lauda is excluded from DT1, he cannot be on DT2. I think your assumptions as to whose votes count might be flawed.

If you are on DT1, your trust list flows down regardless if your ratings show up or not.

Loyce is right. Excluded DT1 members can't "vote" for (or against) DT2 members. So Lauda gains DT2 "strength" compared to the previous DT1 "strength" because exclusions from TECSHARE et al don't count against Lauda anymore.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;full;dt

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July 09, 2019, 04:58:09 PM
 #1769

No. if Lauda is excluded from DT1, he cannot be on DT2.
Lauda is blacklisted from DT1 (not excluded), and is still on DT2 (proof).

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July 09, 2019, 05:11:32 PM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #1770

Whoa, you were fast on detecting that. Is there any official reason why? I do agree with your previous statement in that making the process more democratic a step forward.
Lauda's inclusion and exclusion from DT1 has been a see-saw for quite some time now, so I'm not shocked that he/she's not on it anymore--but that could change. 

I still have not figured out why TECSHARE has me included.  I would not have expected that.  Ever.

There are also many examples of people leaving many controversial ratings over time who are already on DT who see no real pushback against their ratings. There are also examples of people facing retribution in the form of frivolous negative ratings (bill gator), and trust exclusions (bill gator and teeGUMES) for making statements that goes against the "crowd".
I agree with this, and I'd excluded teeGUMES for about 30 minutes before I realized I was making an emotional decision, after which I un-excluded him.  And as far as bill gator goes, I stood up for him and will still do so.  He's a good guy and really didn't deserve the shitty treatment he got.

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July 09, 2019, 05:12:49 PM
 #1771

No. if Lauda is excluded from DT1, he cannot be on DT2. I think your assumptions as to whose votes count might be flawed.

If you are on DT1, your trust list flows down regardless if your ratings show up or not.

Loyce is right. Excluded DT1 members can't "vote" for (or against) DT2 members. So Lauda gains DT2 "strength" compared to the previous DT1 "strength" because exclusions from TECSHARE et al don't count against Lauda anymore.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;full;dt
A review of the OP and the rules for DT, it appears you are right.

This appears to be a flaw in the logic of how DT1/2 voting works. 

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July 09, 2019, 05:13:27 PM
 #1772

I always thought that was a bit of an odd feature of the whole DT system. Being on DT2 has more power than being on DT1 but being voted off. Excluded DT1 votes don't even count for flags.

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July 09, 2019, 05:13:45 PM
Merited by The Pharmacist (1)
 #1773

I still have not figured out why TECSHARE has me included.  I would not have expected that.  Ever.
See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5047060.msg51714652#msg51714652.

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August 02, 2019, 06:16:05 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #1774

This month 106 users were eligible. <...>

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August 02, 2019, 06:31:11 PM
 #1775

Interesting thing: being not included in DT1 in one month because random rotation doesn’t mean next month you will be included back.
Very unlucky user Babo was put out of DT1 last month and still outside DT1 also this  month even if he still qualify.
I don’t know if it already happened to someone else.

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August 02, 2019, 06:33:55 PM
 #1776

Ahaha i'm unlucky one
I know my history of luck, or better.. no luck
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August 02, 2019, 06:50:30 PM
 #1777

Ahaha i'm unlucky one
I know my history of luck, or better.. no luck

You’ll be back my friend, don’t worry. It won’t happen again, surely.




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August 02, 2019, 07:04:32 PM
 #1778

Interesting thing: being not included in DT1 in one month because random rotation doesn’t mean next month you will be included back.

~0.2% chance of that happening two months in a row. Eventually once we get to 250 candidates (or whatever theymos' expectation was) it will be much more frequent.

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August 02, 2019, 08:56:08 PM
 #1779

No. if Lauda is excluded from DT1, he cannot be on DT2.
Lauda is blacklisted from DT1 (not excluded), and is still on DT2 (proof).

He wiped his trust&distrust lists couple weeks ago and  washed himself out.

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August 02, 2019, 09:04:48 PM
Merited by suchmoon (4), LoyceV (1)
 #1780

No. if Lauda is excluded from DT1, he cannot be on DT2.
Lauda is blacklisted from DT1 (not excluded), and is still on DT2 (proof).

He wiped his trust&distrust lists a couple weeks ago and  washed himself out.

Wiping your trust list only disqualifies you from DT1 when Theymos does his monthly update. It does not instantly disqualify you. However, when Lauda was removed from DT1, it was not the result of Theymos doing an update. Lauda's removal also was not the result of more people on DT1 distrusting her than trusting her.

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