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Author Topic: DefaultTrust changes  (Read 53717 times)
Vispilio
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September 06, 2019, 12:50:34 AM
Last edit: September 06, 2019, 01:33:11 AM by Vispilio
 #1821


If we're being honest, here's what it says on the flag itself (emphasis mine):

Quote
Vispilio alleges: Due largely to the factors mentioned in this topic, I believe that anyone dealing with Timelord2067 is at a high risk of losing money, and guests would be well-advised to avoid doing so. This determination is based on concrete red flags which any knowledgeable & reasonable forum user should agree with, and it is not based on the user's opinions.

So when you (and others) keep repeating that the flag is based on opinions I must conclude that you either don't know how it's supposed to work or deliberately ignore it, both good reasons to exclude you. Your thread does not show any indication of Timelord2067 posing a high risk of losing money, instead it is full of hyperbole and hurt feelings. Not a good fit with the trust system.


well ok just to respond to this objection without going too much off topic, since LoyceV also had the exact same reasoning as yours:

The determination of why the flag was prompted in the first place rests on objective reality indeed (called concrete red flags, which in itself is a vague statement but anyways), my dramatic wording of it shouldn't cloud the easily provable reality that there is a repeating pattern of obsessive false accusations against the Turkish section by this amateur detective of the forum called timelord.

The "high risk" individual flag against him which then follows, as you correctly quoted, begins with "I believe" which has to make it a personal, subjective statement, a very strong one, yet subjective nevertheless.

If the flag had to contain scientific proof that Timelord2067 was a scammer, eg a definitive case where he actually swindled people, that would immediately qualify it as the stronger contractual / scammer flag. Otherwise, there would be effectively no difference between the two flag types...

So in summary you can put people to your distrust list for whatever notion you feel is appropriate, but the BTT community should know that some of your latest reasons for doing so are pretty weak suchmoon, which in Turkish legal jargon would be roughly translated as "Against the natural flow of life" often used to signify ulterior motives... Wink

 
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September 06, 2019, 01:23:53 AM
 #1822

~

You're completely ignoring the following part: "This determination is based on concrete red flags which any knowledgeable & reasonable forum user should agree with". Many knowledgeable & reasonable forum users don't agree with that, as evidenced by the opposition to your flag; it is supported solely by a group of Turkish users who have repeatedly stated that they dislike Timelord due to alleged "racism", using over-the-top dramatic accusations like this:

Quote
The incessant and repetitive prejudice, insults & lies thrown indiscriminately against all the Turkish high ranking members
Quote
constant immoral and malevolent activities
Quote
His ludicrously deranged methods include stalking every high ranking Turkish member on a daily basis
Quote
everything ever done by the Turkish members is an "evidence" to a conspiracy or fraud or scam attempt or an otherwise criminal activity
Quote
undeniably hateful and racist activities by this obvious childish troll
Quote
will continue to flag users who like to persecute people based on their nationality or anthropological backgrounds
Quote
the flag is very appropriate because I'm sure a knowledgeable individual like you can find ample correlation in history between prejudice / persecution and financial crimes
Quote
People prone to irrational hateful behavior will not hesitate to exhibit that blind prejudice in monetary matters
Quote
Slander people, stealing time is a crime everywhere
Quote
such a dishonest unhinged individual cannot be trusted in any financial deal

Source: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5181723

I'm sorry but this is too much even for me, and usually I'm not that sensitive to forum drama. You continue to flag users for that, I'll continue to distrust you.



Your accusations against me are as pointless as is your flag against Timelord. Bring evidence of my "ulterior motives" or shut up. Preferably in another thread, enough derailing of this one.

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September 06, 2019, 08:22:01 AM
 #1823

...

I assure you, compared to what most Turkish members have been going through recently on this forum, this is like a walk in the park for you suchmoon, and even for timelord...

 
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September 06, 2019, 08:45:12 PM
Merited by EFS (1), Blacknavy (1)
 #1824

I assure you, compared to what most Turkish members have been going through recently on this forum, this is like a walk in the park for you suchmoon, and even for timelord...
I think you're missing the point... they're not arguing that you're being bullies... they're arguing that your use of flags is incorrect. Which, based on what I've seen in this thread is correct.

What are the "concrete red flags" you have seen that dealing with Timelord is likely to result in losing money? Huh Hint: Being "racist" =/= scammer

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October 04, 2019, 08:13:45 PM
 #1825

I hope I didn't screw it up this time:

Removed:

dooglus
TECSHARE
OgNasty
Anduck
Micio
yogg
greenplastic
JayJuanGee
BitcoinPenny
mhanbostanci
bones261
Kalemder
Matthias9515
Silent26
fillippone
madnessteat
DIKUL

Added:

gmaxwell
Dabs
monkeynuts
Lydian
ezeminer
MaoChao
polymerbit
Vispilio
JollyGood
Goran_
bavicrypto
theyoungmillionaire
iasenko
tvplus006
gospodin
mole0815
TalkStar


From https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5117330.msg52653822#msg52653822

111 candidates this time thus a fairly large list of removals.

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October 04, 2019, 08:38:28 PM
 #1826

The list of DT1 members includes bounty hunter gospodin. I've never seen anything like this before.  Grin

Look at his messages.

 
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October 05, 2019, 12:50:41 AM
 #1827

The list of DT1 members includes bounty hunter gospodin. I've never seen anything like this before.  Grin

Look at his messages.

Nice to see new faces. Gospodin is the best bounty hunter I've ever seen but he is known by the community for his fairness. He is not only the best hunter but also the most active member in our section. There are a lot of topics that was created by him. Let’s give him a chance.

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October 05, 2019, 01:36:05 AM
 #1828

The list of DT1 members includes bounty hunter gospodin. I've never seen anything like this before.  Grin

Look at his messages.
I'm confused with what that has to do with their trustworthiness? Is there an issue with their feedback or conduct when interacting with others? If their bounties don't break forum rules, it's a non issue

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October 05, 2019, 06:32:34 AM
Merited by Coolcryptovator (1)
 #1829

The list of DT1 members includes bounty hunter gospodin. I've never seen anything like this before.  Grin

Look at his messages.
I'm confused with what that has to do with their trustworthiness? Is there an issue with their feedback or conduct when interacting with others? If their bounties don't break forum rules, it's a non issue

Personally, I see no reason to trust such a user and adding him to the DefaultTrust looks very strange. Am I right to understand that you can trust user feedback without proof?

 
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October 05, 2019, 06:38:48 PM
 #1830

I hope I didn't screw it up this time:
Looks okay :)

I've added more information to your lists:
Quote
Removed:
dooglus (Trust: +14 / =1 / -0) (178 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
TECSHARE (Trust: +34 / =5 / -1) (475 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
OgNasty (Trust: +63 / =2 / -6) (723 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
Anduck (Trust: +19 / =2 / -1) (55 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
Micio (Trust: +8 / =0 / -0) (250 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
yogg (Trust: +22 / =0 / -0) (823 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
greenplastic (Trust: +37 / =0 / -0) (105 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
JayJuanGee (Trust: +3 / =0 / -0) (1042 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
BitcoinPenny (Trust: +34 / =0 / -0) (523 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
mhanbostanci (Trust: +3 / =0 / -0) (161 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
bones261 (Trust: +3 / =0 / -0) (704 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
Kalemder (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (178 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
Matthias9515 (Trust: +5 / =0 / -0) (581 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
Silent26 (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (222 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
fillippone (Trust: +5 / =0 / -0) (1239 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
madnessteat (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (489 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
DIKUL (Trust: neutral) (137 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

Quote
Added:
gmaxwell (Trust: +15 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (23) 1420 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
Dabs (Trust: +43 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (2) 215 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
monkeynuts (Trust: +25 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (17) 190 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
Lydian (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (3) 124 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
ezeminer (Trust: +22 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (10) 95 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
MaoChao (Trust: +5 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (8) 119 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
polymerbit (Trust: +9 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (6) 236 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
Vispilio (Trust: +6 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (1) 284 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
JollyGood (Trust: +14 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (1) 114 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
Goran_ (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (2) 734 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
bavicrypto (Trust: +24 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (5) 125 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
theyoungmillionaire (Trust: +6 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (9) 925 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
iasenko (Trust: +4 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (14) 1216 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
tvplus006 (Trust: +7 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (1) 689 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
gospodin (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (2) 317 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
mole0815 (Trust: +3 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (0) 720 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
TalkStar (Trust: +4 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (4) 315 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)



The list of DT1 members includes bounty hunter gospodin. I've never seen anything like this before.  ;D

Look at his messages.
I can't read his posts, but it doesn't look like the typical bounty spammer who only posts links to Twitter and Facebook. But he has several users who haven't left any feedback on his Trust list.

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October 06, 2019, 06:29:04 PM
 #1831


The list of DT1 members includes bounty hunter gospodin. I've never seen anything like this before.  Grin

Look at his messages.
I can't read his posts, but it doesn't look like the typical bounty spammer who only posts links to Twitter and Facebook. But he has several users who haven't left any feedback on his Trust list.

Agree with LoyceV here, the assessment that gospodin is mainly a bounty hunter would be grossly incorrect.

He has very clever and informative messages all over the local forum (and several in Russian too), almost unanimously liked for his sincere and fun attitude,

and I would estimate 90% of his posts are primarily motivated by a genuine interest to contribute to and learn from the crypto community.

 
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October 06, 2019, 06:58:27 PM
 #1832

Personally, I see no reason to trust such a user and adding him to the DefaultTrust looks very strange. Am I right to understand that you can trust user feedback without proof?
It's good that it looks strange, and it's fine if you don't trust them. That is one of the best examples that this new DT-1 selection process is working. It's meant to capture varying opinions and perspectives on trust related issues. Everyone has different reasons for their inclusions and why they feel someones feedback, flag support, or general approach to forum dealings. It helps provide a much more rounded trust system, a far cry from the old method.
Not sure what you mean by trust a user feedback without proof. I don't use Default trust, I've made my own custom trust list, which is something all members should do at some point once they get the handle of the system. From what I can tell they have left feedback, each with a reference if that's what you mean by proof. Enough people out there obviously trust them and their judgement so who am I to say that they aren't worthy to show feedback to Newbies by default.
Now if you have any reason besides them being a bounty hunter that they shouldn't be trusted. You can start a reputation thread,or PM people who have included them and make a case. The DT system allows for dt-1 inclusions to remove users after they've been voted in.

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October 06, 2019, 07:24:03 PM
 #1833

~snip~

I do not encourage anybody to exclude this user from their trust list or to put "~" in front of their nickname, and I have no reason to create a topic in the Reputation section. I just expressed my surprised opinion. The DT system is much more decentralized than before and this user's entry in the DT1 list demonstrates this very well.

It's not how you set up your trust list that worries me anymore, it's what the newcomer's trust list will be like. After all, theymos did not make the newbies' trust list empty by default, but added DefaultTrust to it.

 
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October 08, 2019, 04:12:50 PM
Merited by LoyceV (6)
 #1834

Matthias9515, Steamtyme, LoyceV, Vispilio: Today I realized why I only saw the bounty messages in gospodin's profile. This happened because all languages except Russian and English were disabled in my account settings (Boards to Ignore). From now on, I will use the default account settings. I sincerely apologize to gospodin and those whom I misled.

 
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October 10, 2019, 05:40:33 AM
Last edit: October 10, 2019, 03:37:26 PM by gospodin
 #1835

Hi.  Yes, I'm a bounty hunter.  I didn't want to be dt1.  I don't want it now.  I'm really bored of these things.  merit, dt1 bla bla enough!  Turkish local section needs dt1 members.  We have a lot of scammers.  and scam projects ... Help us if you do not want dt1 members from the Turks!  

Selecting dt1 is not unfair.  because we have very few members.  how can you help us with these scams?  I say again: I don't care to be a dt1 member. help us but quickly.  without prejudice.  
There are scamers especially in the market area.
for example turkish scam projects: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5047577.msg46720842#msg46720842
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5058797.msg47358832#msg47358832
 
"wow turkish or russian dt1, he/she is a bastard" Smiley))

Thank you.




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October 10, 2019, 06:22:03 AM
 #1836

I didn't want to be dt1.  I don't want it now.
You can be blacklisted from DT1 (not from DT2) if you want, just PM theymos and ask.

However, if you want to do something against scams on your local board, DT1 powers (when used wisely) can be very  helpful.

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October 10, 2019, 08:05:20 AM
Last edit: October 10, 2019, 08:30:27 AM by tmfp
 #1837

....We have a lot of scammers.  and scam projects ... Help us if you do not want dt1 members from the Turks!
Selecting dt1 is not unfair.  because we have very few members.  how can you help us with these scams?  I say again: I don't care to be a dt1 member. help us but quickly.  without prejudice. 

You (and other local members) could leave red trust for scammers yourselves, for a start. You've left one negative trust in two years, to someone apparently for trolling.
Leaving red trust for scammers and starting Scam Accusations are not solely the preserve of DT members.


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October 10, 2019, 09:22:46 AM
 #1838

....We have a lot of scammers.  and scam projects ... Help us if you do not want dt1 members from the Turks!
Selecting dt1 is not unfair.  because we have very few members.  how can you help us with these scams?  I say again: I don't care to be a dt1 member. help us but quickly.  without prejudice. 

You (and other local members) could leave red trust for scammers yourselves, for a start. You've left one negative trust in two years, to someone apparently for trolling.
Leaving red trust for scammers and starting Scam Accusations are not solely the preserve of DT members.



then any one can issue a red Trust. It works?  I did not know that.  I start tagging from today.



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October 10, 2019, 09:32:52 AM
 #1839

....We have a lot of scammers.  and scam projects ... Help us if you do not want dt1 members from the Turks!
Selecting dt1 is not unfair.  because we have very few members.  how can you help us with these scams?  I say again: I don't care to be a dt1 member. help us but quickly.  without prejudice. 

You (and other local members) could leave red trust for scammers yourselves, for a start. You've left one negative trust in two years, to someone apparently for trolling.
Leaving red trust for scammers and starting Scam Accusations are not solely the preserve of DT members.



then any one can issue a red Trust. It works?  I did not know that.  I start tagging from today.

It will only show on the recipient's feedback in the "untrusted" section if you are not on DT (or the viewer's custom list) but yeah, if you see a scam or a scammer, use the system as much as you can to expose them.
Also, anyone can start a flag against a scammer by posting supporting evidence for it.

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October 10, 2019, 09:50:49 AM
 #1840

then any one can issue a red Trust. It works?  I did not know that.  I start tagging from today.
If you didn't know that, the users who voted you into DT1 did a bad job.

There's still a huge lack of understanding of the DT-system, especially on local boards. If I make a guide, will people translate it to local boards?

LoyceV on the road (or in bed, couch, ....). Don't deal with this account (exception).
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I'm DT2 now!
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