Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[paxmao]

...

LOL cherry season still in full swing apparently. Anything to avoid thinking as to why you need those cherries to begin with.

It is the houses special. I am not sure, but I think DaRude here is trying to make it look like getting 60 billion in aid is a bad thing and will not impact the rate of fatalities in the Ruzzian army? I mean... a 155MM shell is 300 US. 60B of shells would be like... 18 million shells? More than all that has been yet used in the war? A whole 6 year shell production of Ruzzia to their most optimistic stats? This is just to give an idea, not realistic, but... I would not want to be on the other side of this gun.

[...]

"Ukraine can keep fighting for years. ...Ukraine is in a better position than early in the war" that's a very...interesting statement, contrary to what everyone else have been reporting. When you say Ukraine can keep fighting for years, when do you think Ukraine would need to drop conscription age further to 21, and then mobilize women? Guessing you'd support such moves too right? Anything to demilitarize Russia just a tiny bit more?

With recruits dwindling, Ukraine is urged to mobilise women Chief military adviser for gender issues says adopting Israel-style female conscription policy is necessary to tackle recruitment shortage
...
As well as suffering from a shortage of munitions, Ukraine is increasingly in need of manpower, with army chiefs saying that as many as 500,000 new recruits will be needed this year.

Both are correct, Ukraine needed ammo and systems in the date of those articles (roughly 10 days ago) AKA a shitmetricton of 155MM in the frontlines. Since then, an aid package nearly as big as what was given by US between early 2022 and late 2023 has been approved and it will not take long to get to where is needed.

Look, Ruzzia knows. Why do you think they are pressing regardless of losses?

Ukraine has the artillery and the trained manpower to stabilise the front if given ammo. Ukraine has developed a number of techniques that make good use of what they can get - e.g. able to impact refineries several hundred miles away from the front. US and Ukraine are now clear about what works and what does not work in Ukraine, so no more pressure to launch an offensive. Ruzzia has used up quite a few of their resources and Ukraine is achieving some tactical advantages in sea and air by attacking ships & airfields. The water is boiling for the frog.

On regards to recruiting, yes it is necessary, just like in Ruzzia, but no, not half a million. Many soldiers have been too long in the frontline and there needs to be rotation. But when choosing an option, you must look at the other option: if you do not recruit, Ukraine population will be equally diminished by Ruzzian action. Just look at the population of Ruzzia itself during the last decades and the Ukrainian population pyramid. Letting Moscow choose your fait is a slow suicide - or a fast one if another Stalin decides to mass-kill all the farmers.



@Branko, it is not a good idea to send zero armour vehicles full of people in frontal assaults and Ruzzia is doing it. What is the point of discussing it?

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[DaRude]

[...]

"Ukraine can keep fighting for years. ...Ukraine is in a better position than early in the war" that's a very...interesting statement, contrary to what everyone else have been reporting. When you say Ukraine can keep fighting for years, when do you think Ukraine would need to drop conscription age further to 21, and then mobilize women? Guessing you'd support such moves too right? Anything to demilitarize Russia just a tiny bit more?

With recruits dwindling, Ukraine is urged to mobilise women Chief military adviser for gender issues says adopting Israel-style female conscription policy is necessary to tackle recruitment shortage
...
As well as suffering from a shortage of munitions, Ukraine is increasingly in need of manpower, with army chiefs saying that as many as 500,000 new recruits will be needed this year.

Both are correct, Ukraine needed ammo and systems in the date of those articles (roughly 10 days ago) AKA a shitmetricton of 155MM in the frontlines. Since then, an aid package nearly as big as what was given by US between early 2022 and late 2023 has been approved and it will not take long to get to where is needed.

Look, Ruzzia knows. Why do you think they are pressing regardless of losses?

Ukraine has the artillery and the trained manpower to stabilise the front if given ammo. Ukraine has developed a number of techniques that make good use of what they can get - e.g. able to impact refineries several hundred miles away from the front. US and Ukraine are now clear about what works and what does not work in Ukraine, so no more pressure to launch an offensive. Ruzzia has used up quite a few of their resources and Ukraine is achieving some tactical advantages in sea and air by attacking ships & airfields. The water is boiling for the frog.

On regards to recruiting, yes it is necessary, just like in Ruzzia, but no, not half a million. Many soldiers have been too long in the frontline and there needs to be rotation. But when choosing an option, you must look at the other option: if you do not recruit, Ukraine population will be equally diminished by Ruzzian action. Just look at the population of Ruzzia itself during the last decades and the Ukrainian population pyramid. Letting Moscow choose your fait is a slow suicide - or a fast one if another Stalin decides to mass-kill all the farmers.



@Branko, it is not a good idea to send zero armour vehicles full of people in frontal assaults and Ruzzia is doing it. What is the point of discussing it?

I see, so still pushing the narrative that Ukraine is totally winning because its super-soldiers became uber-effective with some tech that will surely become a game changer. They just need to continue to give up land, and mobilize women   Should they continue doing it in stages, drop the conscription age first to 21 before dropping it to 18 (you know boiling the frog), or just start conscripting 18yr olds right away? You know, because they're winning so hard, and things are better than ever for Ukraine? Do you think loosing Kharkiv wouldn't be a bad for Ukraine too? Because everything can be spun as a positive, willing to accept any Ukrainian loss as long as Russia is demilitarized a bit more for the US?

Hint: Do not look up population stats for Ukraine, just keep looking for any negative stat you can find on Russia, just make sure to present it in a vacuum without providing objective content.  

...

LOL cherry season still in full swing apparently. Anything to avoid thinking as to why you need those cherries to begin with.

Back up your words or stop attempting to fool people. Find any major news outlets that claim that Ukraine is doing good at the front (overall not some marginal local victory), then we'll see who's cherry picking.

US aid to Ukraine: What difference will it make in war with Russia?
...
The influx of weapons should improve Kyiv's chances of averting a major Russian breakthrough in the east, said two military analysts, an ex-Ukrainian defence minister and a European security official.
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"The most important source of Ukrainian weakness is the lack of manpower," said Konrad Muzyka, director of the Rochan military consultancy in Poland.
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Moscow has had the battlefield advantage since capturing Avdiivka, a long-time bastion town in the eastern Donbas region, in February, and its forces have been slowly advancing, using greater numbers of troops and artillery shells.
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Zelenskiy said last week that Russia was now able to fire 10 times more artillery rounds than Ukraine's troops. Russian forces outnumber Kyiv's troops 7-10 times in the east, a Ukrainian general said this month.
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Replenished stocks of artillery shells should bring the gap in rounds fired down to several Russian rounds for every one Ukrainian round, he added.
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A senior European security source told Reuters that if Ukraine received the new U.S. and EU assistance, the likelihood of averting a major Russian breakthrough over the next 12 months was "quite high".
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The Ukrainian military needed a "massive" influx of personnel to stall Russian forces across the entire front, Muzyka said, adding that a separate recruitment drive to enlist volunteer fighters would not be enough to cover the deficit.
...
"Essentially what we're looking at in 2024 is as strong enough a defensive position as possible, but accepting that the Ukrainians are probably going to lose some ground to the Russians," Matthew Savill, military sciences director at the London-based RUSI think-tank, said.

Huh why does it sounds like they're not talking about Ukraine winning at all, but just hoping for chance to hold back Russia from completely breaking through Ukrainian lines

[paxmao]

...

Huh why does it sounds like they're not talking about Ukraine winning at all, but just hoping for chance to hold back Russia from completely breaking through Ukrainian lines

I can repeat it again if you want, but since you do not seem to understand, I will use now the 6 year old version:

- Make sure the bully does not get your lunch.
- Make sure the bully gets punched in the face until he decides you lunch is not worth that much.
- Keep hitting until the bully does not have any more resources to hit you.

And then, kick the bully out of the room.

Versus the wrong strategy of blind-charging a bigger guy like in summer.

[...]

I see, so still pushing the narrative that Ukraine is totally winning because its super-soldiers became uber-effective with some tech that will surely become a game changer. They just need to continue to give up land, and mobilize women   Should they continue doing it in stages, drop the conscription age first to 21 before dropping it to 18 (you know boiling the frog), or just start conscripting 18yr olds right away? You know, because they're winning so hard, and things are better than ever for Ukraine? Do you think loosing Kharkiv wouldn't be a bad for Ukraine too? Because everything can be spun as a positive, willing to accept any Ukrainian loss as long as Russia is demilitarized a bit more for the US?

No, those are your words not mine. A usual way of attacking an argument is taking it to the ridiculous. For example: "hey it seems that daRude is still reading that plan in which the parade in Kiev would be in day three, perhaps I should buy him a subscription for a newspaper" or "I guess you want to see 50% of the Ruzzian fleet in the bottom of the sea instead of the current 15% because you just love seafood".

What I have said is that 60 billion in military aid are the roughly equivalent to six year of Ruzzia's production of shells to their most optimistic stats and that Ukraine is able to hit and has hit high-value targets up to 1000 kilometres from the front. Hint: take a look at where most of Ruzzia's most valuable factories and sites are.

Hint: Do not look up population stats for Ukraine, just keep looking for any negative stat you can find on Russia, just make sure to present it in a vacuum without providing objective content.  

I know Ukrainian statistics on population perfectly well. That is why I think they need to get free from Ruzzia and find the same progress Poland had during many decades after they got rid of Ruzzia and joined the EU.

[...]
Back up your words or stop attempting to fool people. Find any major news outlets that claim that Ukraine is doing good at the front (overall not some marginal local victory), then we'll see who's cherry picking.
[...]

Back up your words or stop pretending this did not happen and that it is not going to affect Ruzzia.



Any credible source saying that Ukraine is worse-off after this? Because you are pretending to say it is.

[be.open]

It is the houses special. I am not sure, but I think DaRude here is trying to make it look like getting 60 billion in aid is a bad thing and will not impact the rate of fatalities in the Ruzzian army? I mean... a 155MM shell is 300 US. 60B of shells would be like... 18 million shells? More than all that has been yet used in the war? A whole 6 year shell production of Ruzzia to their most optimistic stats? This is just to give an idea, not realistic, but... I would not want to be on the other side of this gun.

LOL. A small error has crept into your calculations: one 155-mm artillery shell cost $2,000 before the start of the conflict, but now costs $3,600. So the salmon will have to be cut not even in half, but at least 12 times - provided that all the allocated aid goes to artillery shells, which of course is not the case.

[paxmao]

It is the houses special. I am not sure, but I think DaRude here is trying to make it look like getting 60 billion in aid is a bad thing and will not impact the rate of fatalities in the Ruzzian army? I mean... a 155MM shell is 300 US. 60B of shells would be like... 18 million shells? More than all that has been yet used in the war? A whole 6 year shell production of Ruzzia to their most optimistic stats? This is just to give an idea, not realistic, but... I would not want to be on the other side of this gun.

LOL. A small error has crept into your calculations: one 155-mm artillery shell cost $2,000 before the start of the conflict, but now costs $3,600. So the salmon will have to be cut not even in half, but at least 12 times - provided that all the allocated aid goes to artillery shells, which of course is not the case.

did you read the bit in which I said is just for comparison? The cost is higher now yes, but do not take for granted that is going to stay - higher prices call for higher production - you know... market economy? still, happy you are not bothered by the aid and do not see anything wrong with it. Ukraine needs supporters like you asking for more. Perhaps it will feel different if they hit UralVagonZavod? It seems it is in rage of some of the latest devices that Ukraine has used.

[be.open]

It is the houses special. I am not sure, but I think DaRude here is trying to make it look like getting 60 billion in aid is a bad thing and will not impact the rate of fatalities in the Ruzzian army? I mean... a 155MM shell is 300 US. 60B of shells would be like... 18 million shells? More than all that has been yet used in the war? A whole 6 year shell production of Ruzzia to their most optimistic stats? This is just to give an idea, not realistic, but... I would not want to be on the other side of this gun.

LOL. A small error has crept into your calculations: one 155-mm artillery shell cost $2,000 before the start of the conflict, but now costs $3,600. So the salmon will have to be cut not even in half, but at least 12 times - provided that all the allocated aid goes to artillery shells, which of course is not the case.

did you read the bit in which I said is just for comparison? The cost is higher now yes, but do not take for granted that is going to stay - higher prices call for higher production - you know... market economy? still, happy you are not bothered by the aid and do not see anything wrong with it. Ukraine needs supporters like you asking for more. Perhaps it will feel different if they hit UralVagonZavod? It seems it is in rage of some of the latest devices that Ukraine has used.

Yep. Next time you use numbers just for comparison, try to make them at least a little realistic.

[paxmao]

It is the houses special. I am not sure, but I think DaRude here is trying to make it look like getting 60 billion in aid is a bad thing and will not impact the rate of fatalities in the Ruzzian army? I mean... a 155MM shell is 300 US. 60B of shells would be like... 18 million shells? More than all that has been yet used in the war? A whole 6 year shell production of Ruzzia to their most optimistic stats? This is just to give an idea, not realistic, but... I would not want to be on the other side of this gun.

LOL. A small error has crept into your calculations: one 155-mm artillery shell cost $2,000 before the start of the conflict, but now costs $3,600. So the salmon will have to be cut not even in half, but at least 12 times - provided that all the allocated aid goes to artillery shells, which of course is not the case.

did you read the bit in which I said is just for comparison? The cost is higher now yes, but do not take for granted that is going to stay - higher prices call for higher production - you know... market economy? still, happy you are not bothered by the aid and do not see anything wrong with it. Ukraine needs supporters like you asking for more. Perhaps it will feel different if they hit UralVagonZavod? It seems it is in rage of some of the latest devices that Ukraine has used.

Yep. Next time you use numbers just for comparison, try to make them at least a little realistic.

do not worry, it is going to get pretty real.

[DaRude]

...

Huh why does it sounds like they're not talking about Ukraine winning at all, but just hoping for chance to hold back Russia from completely breaking through Ukrainian lines

I can repeat it again if you want, but since you do not seem to understand, I will use now the 6 year old version:

- Make sure the bully does not get your lunch.
- Make sure the bully gets punched in the face until he decides you lunch is not worth that much.
- Keep hitting until the bully does not have any more resources to hit you.

And then, kick the bully out of the room.

Versus the wrong strategy of blind-charging a bigger guy like in summer.

[...]

I see, so still pushing the narrative that Ukraine is totally winning because its super-soldiers became uber-effective with some tech that will surely become a game changer. They just need to continue to give up land, and mobilize women   Should they continue doing it in stages, drop the conscription age first to 21 before dropping it to 18 (you know boiling the frog), or just start conscripting 18yr olds right away? You know, because they're winning so hard, and things are better than ever for Ukraine? Do you think loosing Kharkiv wouldn't be a bad for Ukraine too? Because everything can be spun as a positive, willing to accept any Ukrainian loss as long as Russia is demilitarized a bit more for the US?

No, those are your words not mine. A usual way of attacking an argument is taking it to the ridiculous. For example: "hey it seems that daRude is still reading that plan in which the parade in Kiev would be in day three, perhaps I should buy him a subscription for a newspaper" or "I guess you want to see 50% of the Ruzzian fleet in the bottom of the sea instead of the current 15% because you just love seafood".

What I have said is that 60 billion in military aid are the roughly equivalent to six year of Ruzzia's production of shells to their most optimistic stats and that Ukraine is able to hit and has hit high-value targets up to 1000 kilometres from the front. Hint: take a look at where most of Ruzzia's most valuable factories and sites are.

Hint: Do not look up population stats for Ukraine, just keep looking for any negative stat you can find on Russia, just make sure to present it in a vacuum without providing objective content.  

I know Ukrainian statistics on population perfectly well. That is why I think they need to get free from Ruzzia and find the same progress Poland had during many decades after they got rid of Ruzzia and joined the EU.

[...]
Back up your words or stop attempting to fool people. Find any major news outlets that claim that Ukraine is doing good at the front (overall not some marginal local victory), then we'll see who's cherry picking.
[...]

Back up your words or stop pretending this did not happen and that it is not going to affect Ruzzia.



Any credible source saying that Ukraine is worse-off after this? Because you are pretending to say it is.

You're just repeating the same thing, over and over ad nauseam, totally ignoring what's happening at the front and in the country.
Ukraine gaining ground=UA winning, soon UA will recover their 1991 borders and then go on Moscow. They should continue doing so
Ukraine loosing ground=UA winning, UA just trading 1cm of land for 1billion of dead Russians. What a smart move, they should continue doing so

It's like a broken record, you can't even define what a loss would look like for Ukraine. Or how bad situation must get on the front for you to start doubting the strategy. Spinning whatever happens, happens for the best because here are some pictures of some golfcarts

Let's concentrate on some UA UAVs hitting some "targets up to 1000 kilometres from the front" and totally ignore the fact that Russia has been hitting ANY target it wanted in ALL OF UA, going as far as Poland with Poland even complaining that few Russian missiles crossed into their airspace  

Everything is great now and will be even better soon, just keep hanging in there, and send your women and teenagers to the front lines, because you know that's what victory looks like!?!? Just because fighting to the last Ukrainian is a great strategy for US doesn't make it so great for UA

If you know "Ukrainian statistics on population perfectly well", then what's the point of no return? That is, how much population can afford to decline before it won't be able to recover in the same form we know Ukraine now?

Which exact time frame are you asking me to compare UA positions at? Keep in mind that US will approve aid soon, but hasn't yet!

[Branko]

It is the houses special. I am not sure, but I think DaRude here is trying to make it look like getting 60 billion in aid is a bad thing and will not impact the rate of fatalities in the Ruzzian army? I mean... a 155MM shell is 300 US. 60B of shells would be like... 18 million shells? More than all that has been yet used in the war? A whole 6 year shell production of Ruzzia to their most optimistic stats? This is just to give an idea, not realistic, but... I would not want to be on the other side of this gun.

"" The cost for Excalibur has been estimated at around $100,000 per round, compared to about $3,000 for an unguided 155-mm shell."

Source:

https://www.businessinsider.com/cost-key-us-weapons-artillery-shells-for-ukraine-is-soaring-2024-3


I guess rest of your comments are just as accurate...wrong tenfold 

[paxmao]

It is the houses special. I am not sure, but I think DaRude here is trying to make it look like getting 60 billion in aid is a bad thing and will not impact the rate of fatalities in the Ruzzian army? I mean... a 155MM shell is 300 US. 60B of shells would be like... 18 million shells? More than all that has been yet used in the war? A whole 6 year shell production of Ruzzia to their most optimistic stats? This is just to give an idea, not realistic, but... I would not want to be on the other side of this gun.

"" The cost for Excalibur has been estimated at around $100,000 per round, compared to about $3,000 for an unguided 155-mm shell."

Source:

https://www.businessinsider.com/cost-key-us-weapons-artillery-shells-for-ukraine-is-soaring-2024-3


I guess rest of your comments are just as accurate...wrong tenfold 

Excalibur is an exception, used for targets that are at least x10 its cost. One shot, one less tank, one less Uragan... Your argument is very interesting, but does not stop the bullets.

[DaRude]

It is the houses special. I am not sure, but I think DaRude here is trying to make it look like getting 60 billion in aid is a bad thing and will not impact the rate of fatalities in the Ruzzian army? I mean... a 155MM shell is 300 US. 60B of shells would be like... 18 million shells? More than all that has been yet used in the war? A whole 6 year shell production of Ruzzia to their most optimistic stats? This is just to give an idea, not realistic, but... I would not want to be on the other side of this gun.

"" The cost for Excalibur has been estimated at around $100,000 per round, compared to about $3,000 for an unguided 155-mm shell."

Source:

https://www.businessinsider.com/cost-key-us-weapons-artillery-shells-for-ukraine-is-soaring-2024-3


I guess rest of your comments are just as accurate...wrong tenfold  

Excalibur is an exception, used for targets that are at least x10 its cost. One shot, one less tank, one less Uragan... Your argument is very interesting, but does not stop the bullets.

LOL You make a claim that "a 155MM shell is 300 US" Branko corrects you by citing a full sentence from Business Insider, which estimates the price of different shells including the one you mentioned 155-mm shell at $3,000. Then instead of thanking him for correcting your blatant mistake (or being caught on a lie) your reply with some irrelevant comment about that other shell? Do you have reading comprehension issues that you really don't understand Branko's citation, or you're just incapable of admitting that you were wrong, so much so, that you'd rather make yourself sound like a fool and be made fun of?

Getting 60 billion would definitely impact the rate of Russian fatalities, but it's like someone giving Japan money after US nuked them, just to keep them fighting a bit longer. Would that increase Russian/American fatalities? Sure, but would it help Japan? Unlikely. I can't believe i have to explain this to you like you're a 6yr old, but here it goes, if something is bad for Russia, that doesn't automatically makes it good for Ukraine, as something bad for Russia can mean something even worse for Ukraine. Now if you don't care for Ukrainian losses and view this strictly from American point of view, than i stand corrected and you are right, finding fools to suicide themselves on your opponent is definitely advantageous.

[suchmoon]

Hostile military alliance creeping toward their border is not enough reason to think about bad intentions?

Is that the same "hostile military alliance" that has gotten even closer to "their border" in the last couple of years? Such victory. Afghanistan 2.0 but more stupider.

Back up your words or stop attempting to fool people. Find any major news outlets that claim that Ukraine is doing good at the front (overall not some marginal local victory), then we'll see who's cherry picking.

Why the fuck would I waste my time with your straw people. Seems like your brain damage is getting worse, you're not even trying to tell the difference between reality and your fantasy world.

[BADecker]

Hostile military alliance creeping toward their border is not enough reason to think about bad intentions?

Is that the same "hostile military alliance" that has gotten even closer to "their border" in the last couple of years? Such victory. Afghanistan 2.0 but more stupider.

Back up your words or stop attempting to fool people. Find any major news outlets that claim that Ukraine is doing good at the front (overall not some marginal local victory), then we'll see who's cherry picking.

Why the fuck would I waste my time with your straw people. Seems like your brain damage is getting worse, you're not even trying to tell the difference between reality and your fantasy world.

You waste your time eating meals now and again, don't you? So, why not watch the old Wizard of Oz movie, again. It was the straw man, the scarecrow, that had the brains. You just might learn how destroyed Ukraine really is.

[Branko]

LOL You make a claim that "a 155MM shell is 300 US" Branko corrects you by citing a full sentence from Business Insider, which estimates the price of different shells including the one you mentioned 155-mm shell at $3,000. Then instead of thanking him for correcting your blatant mistake (or being caught on a lie) your reply with some irrelevant comment about that other shell? Do you have reading comprehension issues that you really don't understand Branko's citation, or you're just incapable of admitting that you were wrong, so much so, that you'd rather make yourself sound like a fool and be made fun of?

Getting 60 billion would definitely impact the rate of Russian fatalities, but it's like someone giving Japan money after US nuked them, just to keep them fighting a bit longer. Would that increase Russian/American fatalities? Sure, but would it help Japan? Unlikely. I can't believe i have to explain this to you like you're a 6yr old, but here it goes, if something is bad for Russia, that doesn't automatically makes it good for Ukraine, as something bad for Russia can mean something even worse for Ukraine. Now if you don't care for Ukrainian losses and view this strictly from American point of view, than i stand corrected and you are right, finding fools to suicide themselves on your opponent is definitely advantageous.

He should personally go to Ukraine to explain situation to these people:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=KXhC8WREVKM

[paxmao]

The important things:

- Ukraine knows what works and what does not.
- Ukraine can hit oil facilities. I expect that now to happen after the US elections. Latest drones are above the 1000 km of range (some say 3000 km, but I am not giving yet credit unless I see evidence).
- Ukraine has learnt from the Surovikin line and now has its own.
- Ukraine can stop Ruzzia in the front, is willing to do so and is willing to bleed Ruzzian economy hard.

I see that there is a clear direction. Optimal result: Crimea cut from railway lines this year.

The muddy waters in which some here live:

It is the houses special. I am not sure, but I think DaRude here is trying to make it look like getting 60 billion in aid is a bad thing and will not impact the rate of fatalities in the Ruzzian army? I mean... a 155MM shell is 300 US. 60B of shells would be like... 18 million shells? More than all that has been yet used in the war? A whole 6 year shell production of Ruzzia to their most optimistic stats? This is just to give an idea, not realistic, but... I would not want to be on the other side of this gun.

"" The cost for Excalibur has been estimated at around $100,000 per round, compared to about $3,000 for an unguided 155-mm shell."

Source:

https://www.businessinsider.com/cost-key-us-weapons-artillery-shells-for-ukraine-is-soaring-2024-3


I guess rest of your comments are just as accurate...wrong tenfold  

Excalibur is an exception, used for targets that are at least x10 its cost. One shot, one less tank, one less Uragan... Your argument is very interesting, but does not stop the bullets.

LOL You make a claim that "a 155MM shell is 300 US" Branko corrects you by citing a full sentence from Business Insider, which estimates the price of different shells including the one you mentioned 155-mm shell at $3,000. Then instead of thanking him for correcting your blatant mistake (or being caught on a lie) your reply with some irrelevant comment about that other shell? Do you have reading comprehension issues that you really don't understand Branko's citation, or you're just incapable of admitting that you were wrong, so much so, that you'd rather make yourself sound like a fool and be made fun of?

Getting 60 billion would definitely impact the rate of Russian fatalities, but it's like someone giving Japan money after US nuked them, just to keep them fighting a bit longer. Would that increase Russian/American fatalities? Sure, but would it help Japan? Unlikely. I can't believe i have to explain this to you like you're a 6yr old, but here it goes, if something is bad for Russia, that doesn't automatically makes it good for Ukraine, as something bad for Russia can mean something even worse for Ukraine. Now if you don't care for Ukrainian losses and view this strictly from American point of view, than i stand corrected and you are right, finding fools to suicide themselves on your opponent is definitely advantageous.

Little troll, you have a reading comprehension issue: Branko mentioned the Excalibur, used by HIMARS which is only used for the expensive vehicles - occasionally to kill masses with cluster munition. Please, educate yourself.

Branko is right (on this) at todays prices as I am right at usual market prices which are around 300 US. There is no lie, there is no mistake in understanding. Todays prices are today, as production expands price is likely to go back to the mean as I just said. I hope you are have reading comprehension as opposed to lying when you deny that Ruzzia is sending soldiers in Golfcarts to the front? Would you like to admit that you were wrong or lying? Which of the two you like most?

Or would you want to admit that 60 billion is the US aid is on top of the EU aid and is more that the rate given on previous years and that you are lying when trying to make it appear otherwise?

You know what? It does not matter. At this point all Ruzzian soldiers and the command know what this means. I am sure that Ruzzis in the front feel very re-assured by your permanent denial of the fact that 60 billion of military equipment is going to be used on them. I am sure that the High Command of the Baltic fleet is very reassured by your comments that Ukraine is just playing golf with the Scalps as the artillery and tank crews are very reassured because the price of the Excalibur that will kill them is expensive.

Keep on boiling frog and dreaming of front collapses. Unless you would like to admit that you are lying when you say the front has collapsed?

[...]

Why the fuck would I waste my time with your straw people. Seems like your brain damage is getting worse, you're not even trying to tell the difference between reality and your fantasy world.

Me personally? I hope to save people from dying for the delirious dreams of a dictator or by giving any credits to the "information" provided by the resident trolls here,  and try to get a peace that I have enjoyed and wish for future generations. Unfortunately, none of that happens for free and without fighting.

[DaRude]

The important things:

- Ukraine knows what works and what does not.
- Ukraine can hit oil facilities. I expect that now to happen after the US elections. Latest drones are above the 1000 km of range (some say 3000 km, but I am not giving yet credit unless I see evidence).
- Ukraine has learnt from the Surovikin line and now has its own.
- Ukraine can stop Ruzzia in the front, is willing to do so and is willing to bleed Ruzzian economy hard.

I see that there is a clear direction. Optimal result: Crimea cut from railway lines this year.

I get that you're trying to concentrate on the positives, but at this point a child can see that cherry picking some facts that are adventitious to you usually means that someone is trying to mislead you.

"Branko mentioned the Excalibur, used by HIMARS" lol what!?! At this point i'm just going to assume that you're drunk or just trolling me.

Good that you could admit that Branko was right, still not sure why you continue discussing other price before the war even began and the current global shortage of 155mm shells. Until the shortage is gone might as well discuss the hypothetical price of 155mm shells if they were growing on trees, would be just as relevant.

"when you deny that Ruzzia is sending soldiers in Golfcarts to the front" cite where i deny that Russia is using golfcart like vehicles? Or shamefully just ignore this point and change the subject yet again.

"Or would you want to admit that 60 billion is the US aid is on top of the EU aid and is more that the rate given on previous years and that you are lying when trying to make it appear otherwise?"
Ohh boy, you actually believed that one too, huh? You know, it would help to develop some critical thinking skills instead of just blindly believing everything that you wish to be true. Let me explain so you don't set yourself up for another disappointment. Just because USA approves aid to Ukraine for $X (what congress passes) doesn't mean that $X will make it to Ukraine. In fact most will stay in US and only a small portion of that $Y will make it to Ukraine (what Kiel Institute accounts for).  Just look into the previous $113B congress passed

$113 billion: Where the US investment in Ukraine aid has gone
...
The largest chunk has gone directly to help Ukraine’s military

The US has actually spent a bit more than $43 billion on security aid for Ukraine since Russia’s invasion in February 2022.

Does the money go where it’s supposed to?

There have been indications of corruption. Zelensky, for instance, replaced the leadership at his defense ministry just before traveling to the US to address the United Nations and appear at the White House with Biden.  

And let me spell this out so you don't get confused on this one too, I'm only talking about USA, sure Brits just committed $0,6B and other countries commit too

"by your comments that Ukraine is just playing golf with the Scalps" are you sure you're not confusing me with someone else here? Or are you a bot that just generates positive messages to keep up Ukraine's morale?

Finally, it's getting ugly out there for Ukrainians, guess they decided to completely shred the constitution and citizens rights, hope everyone who has Ukrainian passport here managed to renew it or it's a one way ticket to execute American KPIsAnger among Ukrainians in Poland as Kyiv halts passport renewals

[paxmao]

The important things:

- Ukraine knows what works and what does not.
- Ukraine can hit oil facilities. I expect that now to happen after the US elections. Latest drones are above the 1000 km of range (some say 3000 km, but I am not giving yet credit unless I see evidence).
- Ukraine has learnt from the Surovikin line and now has its own.
- Ukraine can stop Ruzzia in the front, is willing to do so and is willing to bleed Ruzzian economy hard.

I see that there is a clear direction. Optimal result: Crimea cut from railway lines this year.

I get that you're trying to concentrate on the positives, but at this point a child can see that cherry picking some facts that are adventitious to you usually means that someone is trying to mislead you.

"Branko mentioned the Excalibur, used by HIMARS" lol what!?! At this point i'm just going to assume that you're drunk or just trolling me.

Good that you could admit that Branko was right, still not sure why you continue discussing other price before the war even began and the current global shortage of 155mm shells. Until the shortage is gone might as well discuss the hypothetical price of 155mm shells if they were growing on trees, would be just as relevant.

"when you deny that Ruzzia is sending soldiers in Golfcarts to the front" cite where i deny that Russia is using golfcart like vehicles? Or shamefully just ignore this point and change the subject yet again.

"Or would you want to admit that 60 billion is the US aid is on top of the EU aid and is more that the rate given on previous years and that you are lying when trying to make it appear otherwise?"
Ohh boy, you actually believed that one too, huh? You know, it would help to develop some critical thinking skills instead of just blindly believing everything that you wish to be true. Let me explain so you don't set yourself up for another disappointment. Just because USA approves aid to Ukraine for $X (what congress passes) doesn't mean that $X will make it to Ukraine. In fact most will stay in US and only a small portion of that $Y will make it to Ukraine (what Kiel Institute accounts for).  Just look into the previous $113B congress passed

$113 billion: Where the US investment in Ukraine aid has gone
...
The largest chunk has gone directly to help Ukraine’s military

The US has actually spent a bit more than $43 billion on security aid for Ukraine since Russia’s invasion in February 2022.

Does the money go where it’s supposed to?

There have been indications of corruption. Zelensky, for instance, replaced the leadership at his defense ministry just before traveling to the US to address the United Nations and appear at the White House with Biden.  

And let me spell this out so you don't get confused on this one too, I'm only talking about USA, sure Brits just committed $0,6B and other countries commit too

"by your comments that Ukraine is just playing golf with the Scalps" are you sure you're not confusing me with someone else here? Or are you a bot that just generates positive messages to keep up Ukraine's morale?

Finally, it's getting ugly out there for Ukrainians, guess they decided to completely shred the constitution and citizens rights, hope everyone who has Ukrainian passport here managed to renew it or it's a one way ticket to execute American KPIsAnger among Ukrainians in Poland as Kyiv halts passport renewals

Lying or misreading little troll??

- Ruzzia is sending people in unarmoured vehicles to the frontline. did you lie or misread?
- 60 Billion is nearly as much as the aid sent by US in two previous years - regardless if sent in weapons or cash - Now I know you have not misread, so this one is lying for you. The rest... textwalling, your favourite when your are caught.
- Fronts collapsing... Lying or lying? (I cannot give you the honourable option).


Excalibur shells are used for long range expensive targets. Are you trying to imply that is not the case?i

 (I did say HIMARS because I was thinking of the rocket, but they are fired by conventional artillery, so I am happy to correct THAT, which is irrelevant to the case)

Branko is trying to imply that shells fired by Ukraine cost 100.000 US which is not the common case. See, he does not lie, just uses partial information. I am sure you are very familiar with using partial information uh? But let's just quote the same source:

https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-us-excalibur-artillery-shell-accuracy-2023-4

So now that you bring the topic, and for the benefit of those soldiers and people that you are trying to get to their deaths by trying to deny what this means: Excalibur is one shot one kill. Would you like to be on the receiving end thinking... "oh well, at least it costed them a lot".

People living Ukraine... yes it happens. See below a link.... about people leaving Ruzzia... Boiling frogggggg

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/border-fear-then-relief-men-fleeing-russia-2022-10-05/

For the men leaving Russia after vast journeys across the world's biggest country, there is now often a final ordeal: visceral fear at the border followed by a rush of relief for those who reach the other side.
Hundreds of thousands of men have left Russia since President Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine on Feb. 24. Some feared they would be called up to fight, others simply sought new lives after war changed Russia more dramatically than at any time since the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union.

[LTU_btc]

The important things:

- Ukraine knows what works and what does not.
- Ukraine can hit oil facilities. I expect that now to happen after the US elections. Latest drones are above the 1000 km of range (some say 3000 km, but I am not giving yet credit unless I see evidence).
- Ukraine has learnt from the Surovikin line and now has its own.
- Ukraine can stop Ruzzia in the front, is willing to do so and is willing to bleed Ruzzian economy hard.

I see that there is a clear direction. Optimal result: Crimea cut from railway lines this year.

The muddy waters in which some here live:

It was also confirmed today that will get ATACMS rockets with range up to 300 km. And as we already saw few times, it was actually already delivered to Ukraine and they already used it to hit targets in Crimea.
But that's not the most important thing. It was confirmed that Ukraine will get 7 Patriot systems - it's something that they needed a lot. I hope that Kharkiv, city who suffers most from Russian attacks will get at least 1-2 Patriot's.

[Branko]

Little troll, you have a reading comprehension issue: Branko mentioned the Excalibur, used by HIMARS which is only used for the expensive vehicles - occasionally to kill masses with cluster munition. Please, educate yourself.

Actually, Excalibur is guided 155mm shell, Himars uses completely different (and way more expensive) ammunition

And yes, Ukrainians use them too:

https://www.businessinsider.com/cost-key-us-weapons-artillery-shells-for-ukraine-is-soaring-2024-3#:~:text=Interestingly%2C%20GAO%20declined%20to%20specify,vital%20Russian%20targets%20%E2%80%94%20such%20as

[DaRude]

The important things:

- Ukraine knows what works and what does not.
- Ukraine can hit oil facilities. I expect that now to happen after the US elections. Latest drones are above the 1000 km of range (some say 3000 km, but I am not giving yet credit unless I see evidence).
- Ukraine has learnt from the Surovikin line and now has its own.
- Ukraine can stop Ruzzia in the front, is willing to do so and is willing to bleed Ruzzian economy hard.

I see that there is a clear direction. Optimal result: Crimea cut from railway lines this year.

I get that you're trying to concentrate on the positives, but at this point a child can see that cherry picking some facts that are adventitious to you usually means that someone is trying to mislead you.

"Branko mentioned the Excalibur, used by HIMARS" lol what!?! At this point i'm just going to assume that you're drunk or just trolling me.

Good that you could admit that Branko was right, still not sure why you continue discussing other price before the war even began and the current global shortage of 155mm shells. Until the shortage is gone might as well discuss the hypothetical price of 155mm shells if they were growing on trees, would be just as relevant.

"when you deny that Ruzzia is sending soldiers in Golfcarts to the front" cite where i deny that Russia is using golfcart like vehicles? Or shamefully just ignore this point and change the subject yet again.

"Or would you want to admit that 60 billion is the US aid is on top of the EU aid and is more that the rate given on previous years and that you are lying when trying to make it appear otherwise?"
Ohh boy, you actually believed that one too, huh? You know, it would help to develop some critical thinking skills instead of just blindly believing everything that you wish to be true. Let me explain so you don't set yourself up for another disappointment. Just because USA approves aid to Ukraine for $X (what congress passes) doesn't mean that $X will make it to Ukraine. In fact most will stay in US and only a small portion of that $Y will make it to Ukraine (what Kiel Institute accounts for).  Just look into the previous $113B congress passed

$113 billion: Where the US investment in Ukraine aid has gone
...
The largest chunk has gone directly to help Ukraine’s military

The US has actually spent a bit more than $43 billion on security aid for Ukraine since Russia’s invasion in February 2022.

Does the money go where it’s supposed to?

There have been indications of corruption. Zelensky, for instance, replaced the leadership at his defense ministry just before traveling to the US to address the United Nations and appear at the White House with Biden.  

And let me spell this out so you don't get confused on this one too, I'm only talking about USA, sure Brits just committed $0,6B and other countries commit too

"by your comments that Ukraine is just playing golf with the Scalps" are you sure you're not confusing me with someone else here? Or are you a bot that just generates positive messages to keep up Ukraine's morale?

Finally, it's getting ugly out there for Ukrainians, guess they decided to completely shred the constitution and citizens rights, hope everyone who has Ukrainian passport here managed to renew it or it's a one way ticket to execute American KPIsAnger among Ukrainians in Poland as Kyiv halts passport renewals

Lying or misreading little troll??

- Ruzzia is sending people in unarmoured vehicles to the frontline. did you lie or misread?
- 60 Billion is nearly as much as the aid sent by US in two previous years - regardless if sent in weapons or cash - Now I know you have not misread, so this one is lying for you. The rest... textwalling, your favourite when your are caught.
- Fronts collapsing... Lying or lying? (I cannot give you the honourable option).


Excalibur shells are used for long range expensive targets. Are you trying to imply that is not the case?i

 (I did say HIMARS because I was thinking of the rocket, but they are fired by conventional artillery, so I am happy to correct THAT, which is irrelevant to the case)

Branko is trying to imply that shells fired by Ukraine cost 100.000 US which is not the common case. See, he does not lie, just uses partial information. I am sure you are very familiar with using partial information uh? But let's just quote the same source:

https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-us-excalibur-artillery-shell-accuracy-2023-4

So now that you bring the topic, and for the benefit of those soldiers and people that you are trying to get to their deaths by trying to deny what this means: Excalibur is one shot one kill. Would you like to be on the receiving end thinking... "oh well, at least it costed them a lot".

People living Ukraine... yes it happens. See below a link.... about people leaving Ruzzia... Boiling frogggggg

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/border-fear-then-relief-men-fleeing-russia-2022-10-05/

For the men leaving Russia after vast journeys across the world's biggest country, there is now often a final ordeal: visceral fear at the border followed by a rush of relief for those who reach the other side.
Hundreds of thousands of men have left Russia since President Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine on Feb. 24. Some feared they would be called up to fight, others simply sought new lives after war changed Russia more dramatically than at any time since the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union.

What did i missread or lie about? Shall we try a third attempt at forming a full question? You must be really slow to understand so let me try this one last time. I'm don't pretend to be a military expert so i don't speculate on daily events. As far as your so called "golfcarts" i have no idea if they're good or bad, but few questions come to mind from the top:
Would the occupants survive an anti-personnel mine?
Is it heavy enough to set off an anti-tank mine?
Do UAs rules of engagement allow Javelin use against a "golfcart" with one or two occupants?
What's easier to target with a drone, such "golfcart" driving at speed vs infantry on foot?
With so many drones covering the front lines, i'd imagine one would want to minimize time spent in the open moving between the tree lines?
Is there a better alternative for a fast evac of wounded?
Etc etc etc ...
You've been throwing these radical claims since you claimed that switchblades would be a game changer, and making fun of RU tank cages which Ukraine has since also implemented.

Lol you still refuse to accept that congress has previously approved $113B in "Ukraine" aid before?

Q1: Since the start of the war, how much funding has Congress appropriated for Ukraine?

A1: To date, Congress has passed four spending packages in response to Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine— $113 billion in total. The $113 billion spans agencies and bureaus and provides for much-needed support in areas including military equipment, migration and refugee assistance, energy, and countering disinformation.

Q2: Did all $113 billion go to Ukraine?

A2: No, it is important to note that not all of this funding has gone to Ukraine. A good proportion of this funding is being spent in the United States, or on U.S. personnel.

Just as will these $60B. You really believed that all of $60B would go to Ukraine lol?

You made a claim implying unrealistic prewar costs of 155mm shells, Branko corrected you citing a full sentence with the current, actually relevant cost of 155mm shell. You started attacking irrelevant part about Excalibur shells and you're still the only one that keeps talking about Excalibur for some reason?

So your reply to Ukraine globally stopping providing consular assistance to almost half of its population outside of UA (all males from 18-65) is an article from 2022 about men leaving Russia during partial mobilization in Russia? Hmm ok sure