Casinos not asking for KYC to register and play, but do require it to withdraw

[michellee]

And unfortunately, we don't just wake up one morning and know which and which casinos are shady, someone somewhere have to first fall a victim, and that person or persons have to write about their bad experiences for us to read before we get to know that that particular casino is shady, and then we avoid it.
Now, I think the question will be, what if we happen to be the victim that falls in other to save others, are we going to do it wholeheartedly?

And to your second paragraph, you are absolutely right and I completely agree with you, for those of us who are already on this forum, and even those who know this forum and does come around once in a while to read post here, there is no need looking else where to choose a gambling casino, majorly every casino that is currently advertising on this forum can be trusted, so, yeah, we have peace of mind in this regard.

And in terms of kyc, regardless of how reputable a casino is, I've never supported a casino requesting a kyc verification just when a gambler win and requests withdrawal, for to me, it doesn't look morally right, it's a kind of cheating to allow a player deposit, gamble and lose money multiple times without the casino caring, and just about when he or she wins and tried to withdraw, he or she hammered with a kyc verification request, what then happens if such a player is not able to provide what is being asked, will that casino in its reputation allow the player withdraw his or her money without passing the requested kyc verification.?

Unfortunately, even though a person already knows it is a shady casino, he still tries it because he sees interesting promotions that he does not find anywhere else. We won't know that we will be victims until we become actual victims of shady casinos. And from being a victim, we will tell our experiences to other people so they can avoid it.

Looking for a trusted casino from this forum is more than enough for us to find a suitable casino for us. Of the many casinos on this forum, we can find one or two or even more casinos that are suitable for us. And it will shorten our search time compared to searching from sites out there. And we are also lucky that some members here also provide reviews about various casinos. That will give us more information in choosing the casino.

But that's what's happening in many casinos these days. But if a gambler really wants to gamble, he won't mind doing KYC. He wants to get comfort in gambling so he needs to do his KYC. The casino may allow users to withdraw their money if it is within their minimum limit. If it is above the minimum limit, the casino will ask for KYC and it depends on the gambler.

[mak013]

the rules need to change
in france u need to do kyc before deposit money
in the philippines its same
result to no issue when u withdraw

crypto bookmakers are no mans land

Yes, it is. In such situation there is no chance to cheat for casino. But the same time casino don`t like such opportunity. The same time they lose some clients, who don`t like KYC - after deposit they have to lose these money or to KYC if they want to withdraw it.  They tell us that it was made for faster start - gambler don`t lose time before his first bet, but i`m sure that the main reason is an opportunity to steal your money using the KYC.

[CryptSafe]

the rules need to change
in france u need to do kyc before deposit money
in the philippines its same
result to no issue when u withdraw

crypto bookmakers are no mans land

Yes, it is. In such situation there is no chance to cheat for casino. But the same time casino don`t like such opportunity. The same time they lose some clients, who don`t like KYC - after deposit they have to lose these money or to KYC if they want to withdraw it.  They tell us that it was made for faster start - gambler don`t lose time before his first bet, but i`m sure that the main reason is an opportunity to steal your money using the KYC.

The KYC has always been a good remedy for the casinos to steal your money. Little wonder they were quick to adopt the KYC policy by the government because it is all in their favour and as such they use it as a tool against gamblers who have funds with them but are having issues with their KYC as a result of they wanting to bypass the KYC settings. Although the casino claims it to be a smooth access to ones fund but in the reality it is not as they have said but rather just to get at many people. Casinos are not also sincere as well they are just after every means of making profit at all cost they do not mind who is involved.

[LUCKMCFLY]

<Snip>

Well, the truth is that when we go through bad times because of KYC, it's something that really gives us a lot of trouble. Personally, I could think that when we try to do things well in any country, we have to be careful. to do a KYC and not have it approved, that is a reason not to return to that place, because apart from what it costs me to leave my documents there and if they start demanding a lot with respect to the documents, it is something that is not accepted, Therefore, when we are in those plans it is better and I have always said that the recommended thing is to always start doing things to fully trust those casinos, for example I know that one of these casinos has its thread Ann, they have their reputation comments, Besides, in the threads Ann you can see that the problems they may have are big, small, medium, if they solve them at once, sometimes Writing in the thread is not bad, sometimes it is much better there and the people who They don't know because they go directly to its support, so these are things that we can see and appreciate well what we are getting into.

If we choose to watch and play, we should click ahead, for example , if we decide we have to do the KYC as a first option, I would advise doing it before depositing and after doing it and approving it, ask, with that KYC how much is it? the maximum withdrawal that we can make without having to do a more radical KYC, so that is what I would advise, nothing more, because it is better to do it that way and not wait to withdraw and have a bad time thinking that you cannot withdraw after that It is something that we must always see and do so that we can have everything under control, that is what occurs to me, and then it is different , we as good players must always take those precautions , because then we will not have bad times.

[fapar]

the rules need to change
in france u need to do kyc before deposit money
in the philippines its same
result to no issue when u withdraw

crypto bookmakers are no mans land

Mandatory KYC before deposit will reduce the number of players in such casinos. I agree that this is the right decision, but not everyone will be ready to go for it. Play for several tens of dollars and be sure to go through the KYC of incommensurable things. It would probably be more correct to set some minimum amount for the deposit and in this case require a KYC. Because a player can simply try a new casino and not necessarily stay to play there for a long time.

[Ojima-ojo]

the rules need to change
in france u need to do kyc before deposit money
in the philippines its same
result to no issue when u withdraw

crypto bookmakers are no mans land

Yes, it is. In such situation there is no chance to cheat for casino. But the same time casino don`t like such opportunity. The same time they lose some clients, who don`t like KYC - after deposit they have to lose these money or to KYC if they want to withdraw it.  They tell us that it was made for faster start - gambler don`t lose time before their first bet, but I`m sure that the main reason is an opportunity to steal your money using the KYC.

Even in the United States, citizens will have to hand over their documents before they can make use of any casino,  and the same in other countries where gambling and casinos are regulated by the government, so KYC is not a big deal for those in that part of the world and they expect anything outside that, because anyone who wants to complain about a casino because their ask for KYC and it stated in their terms and conditions of service, this will only become just complain and no one will listen to them, but if at any point the casino act outside of the rules as stipulated the term of service of the casino and there asked for it at that time the platform can be tended and abe tended violation of the right of the player since it is not stated in their terms of service.


This is why we have always said that players should take the time to read all the rules and regulations as they concern KYC and other vital features of the casinos.

[Dunamisx]

I don't know why so many people can't understand the reason why they needed to know the kind of a casino they are you if it's the type that support for KYC or not, one thing we should know is that we can get them to do as against their wish just to entice us, we would rather go by what they wanted to see with every users on their platform, of we can't afford such, we can make use of another one or research about the non casinos.

[LUCKMCFLY]

I don't know why so many people can't understand the reason why they needed to know the kind of a casino they are you if it's the type that support for KYC or not, one thing we should know is that we can get them to do as against their wish just to entice us, we would rather go by what they wanted to see with every users on their platform, of we can't afford such, we can make use of another one or research about the non casinos.

Sometimes the same curiosity of people is what makes things be like this, we should not blame them, because things sometimes manifest themselves in that way for that reason is that we are always going to have many points of view regarding To this, I am one of those who think that everything that has to do with KYC is already a pain, and something that I don't like, in fact it shouldn't even exist, therefore every time we are in a casino what What we are looking for is basically to have many ways of doing things, first looking for that this is not fulfilled, secondly that what is referred to a KYC because there is not much available to establish anything that has to do with that, for this reason we When you see that we are in a casino, we must do things well thought out, say which casino is worth playing and which casino is not worth it.

So every time we are in a casino we must establish that way of doing things, there is no other way, so every time we go to put money in a casino, what I recommend is to see carefully where we are going to get into. and do any type of KYC before depositing, because if the casino is very demanding in its KYC we cannot do anything when we have money there, but we can do a lot if they do not approve it without making a deposit, because we no longer have the obligation to do it, but we simply look for another casino, because there is a lot of competition, there are always qcasinos that have a very good level and that can make a difference, that is what we should see, of course it is something that not everyone sees but it could be say that among this industry the strongest always survives, in this case the one who has the most advantage of doing things better, there are many casinos that are old, that do not bother with KYC and that are very reliable, with a high reputation and that are worth Anything is worth doing, it is what we should take advantage of.

[mak013]

Yes, it is. In such situation there is no chance to cheat for casino. But the same time casino don`t like such opportunity. The same time they lose some clients, who don`t like KYC - after deposit they have to lose these money or to KYC if they want to withdraw it.  They tell us that it was made for faster start - gambler don`t lose time before their first bet, but I`m sure that the main reason is an opportunity to steal your money using the KYC.

Even in the United States, citizens will have to hand over their documents before they can make use of any casino,  and the same in other countries where gambling and casinos are regulated by the government, so KYC is not a big deal for those in that part of the world and they expect anything outside that, because anyone who wants to complain about a casino because their ask for KYC and it stated in their terms and conditions of service, this will only become just complain and no one will listen to them, but if at any point the casino act outside of the rules as stipulated the term of service of the casino and there asked for it at that time the platform can be tended and abe tended violation of the right of the player since it is not stated in their terms of service.


This is why we have always said that players should take the time to read all the rules and regulations as they concern KYC and other vital features of the casinos.

I don`t think that it is a problem to KYC. Nowadays everybody can find your private data - every day we hear how our data was hacked, every week i get at least one call from the cheaters, etc. Of course it doesn`t mean, that we can show our id to everybody without research. The problem is that KYC is used as official cheat from casino.
Such decision as we are talking about - KYC before the first deposit, will defend gamblers, but casino don`t want to use it.

[Botnake]

I don`t think that it is a problem to KYC. Nowadays everybody can find your private data - every day we hear how our data was hacked, every week i get at least one call from the cheaters, etc. Of course it doesn`t mean, that we can show our id to everybody without research. The problem is that KYC is used as official cheat from casino.
Such decision as we are talking about - KYC before the first deposit, will defend gamblers, but casino don`t want to use it.

That is true, and it's the risk of submitting a KYC documents to verify your account. However, it's not new as even banks and other financial institutions requires you to follow the KYC protocol. Hacking is possible, but it's less likely to happen if the site you are trusting has a strong security, so to ensure that they have, check  on their reputation and their popularity, if they have both what are you looking for, then trust them, but never think it's guaranteed that your account and documents are safe, or hack-free.

[junder]

<Snip>

Well, the truth is that when we go through bad times because of KYC, it's something that really gives us a lot of trouble. Personally, I could think that when we try to do things well in any country, we have to be careful. to do a KYC and not have it approved, that is a reason not to return to that place, because apart from what it costs me to leave my documents there and if they start demanding a lot with respect to the documents, it is something that is not accepted, Therefore, when we are in those plans it is better and I have always said that the recommended thing is to always start doing things to fully trust those casinos, for example I know that one of these casinos has its thread Ann, they have their reputation comments, Besides, in the threads Ann you can see that the problems they may have are big, small, medium, if they solve them at once, sometimes Writing in the thread is not bad, sometimes it is much better there and the people who They don't know because they go directly to its support, so these are things that we can see and appreciate well what we are getting into.

If we choose to watch and play, we should click ahead, for example , if we decide we have to do the KYC as a first option, I would advise doing it before depositing and after doing it and approving it, ask, with that KYC how much is it? the maximum withdrawal that we can make without having to do a more radical KYC, so that is what I would advise, nothing more, because it is better to do it that way and not wait to withdraw and have a bad time thinking that you cannot withdraw after that It is something that we must always see and do so that we can have everything under control, that is what occurs to me, and then it is different , we as good players must always take those precautions , because then we will not have bad times.

and indeed we should be able to determine the best casino because it is also for comfort in the future, fully trusting the casino is one thing that must be done, but even so, I don't think we can determine whether the casino is good or not, because I myself can't determine whether the casino is new The one I visited was good or not, but even though I don't know about it, maybe reading the reviews can help confirm that the casino is good, especially with the casino's reputation, we can judge the casino by looking at its reputation.

In my opinion, KYC is done before the deposit, because that can make us comfortable in the future, also by asking about the minimum deposit and withdrawal which needs to be asked because usually each casino has differences in the amount of withdrawals and deposits, of course we as players don't want something like that to happen. undesirable things that could interfere with the gambling being carried out, therefore we should do our best for our own gambling comfort.

[Pandu Geddon]

I don`t think that it is a problem to KYC. Nowadays everybody can find your private data - every day we hear how our data was hacked, every week i get at least one call from the cheaters, etc. Of course it doesn`t mean, that we can show our id to everybody without research. The problem is that KYC is used as official cheat from casino.
Such decision as we are talking about - KYC before the first deposit, will defend gamblers, but casino don`t want to use it.

That is true, and it's the risk of submitting a KYC documents to verify your account. However, it's not new as even banks and other financial institutions requires you to follow the KYC protocol. Hacking is possible, but it's less likely to happen if the site you are trusting has a strong security, so to ensure that they have, check  on their reputation and their popularity, if they have both what are you looking for, then trust them, but never think it's guaranteed that your account and documents are safe, or hack-free.

Ultimately, everything must comply with regulations. The final decision is our own choice. If you want to play anonymously, you can look for a casino that doesn't ask for KYC. if we don't have problems with KYC, we can use many casino choices.
Some gamblers don't think about KYC, especially those who like certain sites regarding the services or games there.
KYC issues are requested when we get a big win and want to make a withdrawal. however, the casino carries out the procedure. it isn't very pleasant, but that's the procedure they apply. Just follow it, if there are no problems, your withdrawal will be processed.

[LUCKMCFLY]

Although the chances of winning for the lottery are small, many players still buy lottery coupons because of a promise that if they win, they will get a lot of money and can make them rich in just 1 lottery coupon. lotteries in mainland America and Europe have very large prizes and rewards.
But yes, winning is very difficult, mostly just a dream for coupon buyers but certainly there are those who win the lottery so spending a little money, for example cigarette money is reduced to buy coupons, will not be burdensome.

They still hope to win the huge jackpot prize so they still buy lottery coupons. Even if they have to use more money, it doesn't matter to them because they likely still have more money or have even allocated some funds to buy the lottery coupons.
It is their desires, hopes and dreams of becoming winners of lottery coupons that lead them to buy lottery coupons in large quantities.
Those of us who don't understand might say it doesn't make sense but not for them because they still dream of being the winner.
Meanwhile, people who don't have any intention of buying lottery coupons want to experience buying lottery coupons. But these are the ones who can sometimes be the winners of their lottery coupons.

I think those who use more money do still have doubts but at the end they still continue their plans because they are after the jackpot and says that all of their expenses will still be compensated once they hit it. Many of us already understand how the lottery works or on why people buy a lottery ticket but we still can say that it's better to not risk money on it because the odds are so big that hitting the jackpot is already close to being impossible.

Although the last thing that you said are no doubt true, as I also heard a couple of news about it. I'm afraid a lot of newbies in the lottery scene are going to jump as well and try their luck. And it may be the start of their addiction to it.

Like gambling buying too many lottery tickets can become an addiction. Nowadays it is seen that some people are increasing their inclination towards gambling lottery online games. Get addicted to this game crime is increasing day by day. Lottery or online games have seen many people become destitute in many cases. Addicted to these games many people have been seen to indulge in criminal activities without realizing it.

Well, each time things are being seen with more distinction in this case, I have always seen that on freebitco.in for many years now those who buy the tickets are people who make large purchases, and the truth is I don't know where they get so much money to do it , Personally I know that these Increase the chances of winning in any lottery, but as I have said in many previous posts that this is done sometimes that a winner is the one who buys only 1 ticket, of course in term Obviously, people who buy more tickets always have the chance to win more, but not all the time is fulfilled. Let's say that buying tickets is becoming more and more common, maybe yes, but to the point that it causes some addiction in people is something that I don't think is so likely , people only Spend what they have. willing to lose if a person spends more than they should then things are because they got out of control.

The companies always buy lotteries that I know of, they only buy one ticket every day and that is something that is known, in this order of things things when they try to do well in the games because they already deopned the Person as such in Knowing what they can do and how they can do it, of course this is something that we will Always see for the better , a Person who is always accustomed to playing, it can be established that a lottery expense is normal for them, but the act of doing things In lotteries like this, it is guaranteed that they can be people who can do things better all the time. For my part, I can say that the more Tickets are Bought, the more Opportunities they have to win, that is something that cannot be denied, but the expense? if you don't win? Is it worth spending something like this every day? I think he can't be too busy, it's something that Doesn't fit the normal Parameters.

[Oilacris]

I don`t think that it is a problem to KYC. Nowadays everybody can find your private data - every day we hear how our data was hacked, every week i get at least one call from the cheaters, etc. Of course it doesn`t mean, that we can show our id to everybody without research. The problem is that KYC is used as official cheat from casino.
Such decision as we are talking about - KYC before the first deposit, will defend gamblers, but casino don`t want to use it.

That is true, and it's the risk of submitting a KYC documents to verify your account. However, it's not new as even banks and other financial institutions requires you to follow the KYC protocol. Hacking is possible, but it's less likely to happen if the site you are trusting has a strong security, so to ensure that they have, check  on their reputation and their popularity, if they have both what are you looking for, then trust them, but never think it's guaranteed that your account and documents are safe, or hack-free.

Ultimately, everything must comply with regulations. The final decision is our own choice. If you want to play anonymously, you can look for a casino that doesn't ask for KYC. if we don't have problems with KYC, we can use many casino choices.
Some gamblers don't think about KYC, especially those who like certain sites regarding the services or games there.
KYC issues are requested when we get a big win and want to make a withdrawal. however, the casino carries out the procedure. it isn't very pleasant, but that's the procedure they apply. Just follow it, if there are no problems, your withdrawal will be processed.

There are ones who do really likes on playing into those sites which doesnt have licensed or doesnt really ask out for some KYC on which it do comes into a point that they wont really be making out some checks on the site that they are dealing with and would really be just that ending up on having those regrets on the time that they do step their foot into some problems on which it caused up for them to have those kind of problems on which this is where regrets would really be coming out that they shouldnt have done that earlier but rather be that mindful on reading up those terms and
conditions but just like on what been said that it would be always best that you should really be sticking into those platforms on which we do know that have that reputation rather
than on making yourself that trying out with those new ones.

[ScamViruS]

I don't know why so many people can't understand the reason why they needed to know the kind of a casino they are you if it's the type that support for KYC or not, one thing we should know is that we can get them to do as against their wish just to entice us, we would rather go by what they wanted to see with every users on their platform, of we can't afford such, we can make use of another one or research about the non casinos.

Because maximum gamblers don't even try to read the T&C while registering on any gambling site, so when they face problems on the site they understand why reading the T&C is important. In many cases the gambling sites also take different strategies to attract customers for which they run different promotions as KYC not mandatory gambling sites. But their true form is seen if a gambler wins big. So gamblers should always be careful to read the T&C correctly at the time of registration.

[Westinhome]

That is true, and it's the risk of submitting a KYC documents to verify your account. However, it's not new as even banks and other financial institutions requires you to follow the KYC protocol. Hacking is possible, but it's less likely to happen if the site you are trusting has a strong security, so to ensure that they have, check  on their reputation and their popularity, if they have both what are you looking for, then trust them, but never think it's guaranteed that your account and documents are safe, or hack-free.

The gambler who want to have the smooth withdrawal after the win need to do the Kyc for the withdrawal.The crypto currency based exchanges itself ask the traders to do the Kyc for the withdrawal.So the gamblers should do not consider it as an Oxford things,they need to do the kyc at the time of the registration of the gambling site.The gamblers mostly not like to share their kyc because of worry about the safety of their kyc.But the trusted gambling site never use to do that kyc for making money,only less bankroll gambling site will do the sale of the users kyc to the social network for making some dollars using the kyc data.

[erep]

The gambler who want to have the smooth withdrawal after the win need to do the Kyc for the withdrawal.The crypto currency based exchanges itself ask the traders to do the Kyc for the withdrawal.So the gamblers should do not consider it as an Oxford things,they need to do the kyc at the time of the registration of the gambling site.The gamblers mostly not like to share their kyc because of worry about the safety of their kyc.But the trusted gambling site never use to do that kyc for making money,only less bankroll gambling site will do the sale of the users kyc to the social network for making some dollars using the kyc data.

Make sure every gambler has a popular and trusted casino site and never use a random casino without reviewing its reputation and reading feedback from other users, usually popular casinos do not automatically ask for KYC for users unless the account has been detected with suspicious activity but some popular casinos also ask for KYC from the start to complete the main files after account registration, but we don't need to worry about providing KYC to trusted casinos because KYC data is not used for illegal activities and data trading, but never provide KYC to new casinos because there is a very risk that KYC data will sold for their profit.

[Pandu Geddon]

There are ones who do really likes on playing into those sites which doesnt have licensed or doesnt really ask out for some KYC on which it do comes into a point that they wont really be making out some checks on the site that they are dealing with and would really be just that ending up on having those regrets on the time that they do step their foot into some problems on which it caused up for them to have those kind of problems on which this is where regrets would really be coming out that they shouldnt have done that earlier but rather be that mindful on reading up those terms and
conditions but just like on what been said that it would be always best that you should really be sticking into those platforms on which we do know that have that reputation rather
than on making yourself that trying out with those new ones.

I don't think we can use KYC or not as a reference for whether a casino is reputable or not. Even casino sites or online gambling sites that intend to scam also apply KYC to try to make their casinos follow the procedures set by the government.
There are many reputable ones on the forum, there's nothing wrong with a new casino. they offer attractive bonuses. some users are interested in this. just to try it. so keep using small money for new casinos. whether it's just to claim a bonus or want to experience a different sensation from the old casinos that we often play at.

[Hirose UK]

~snip~

The gambler who want to have the smooth withdrawal after the win need to do the Kyc for the withdrawal.The crypto currency based exchanges itself ask the traders to do the Kyc for the withdrawal.So the gamblers should do not consider it as an Oxford things,they need to do the kyc at the time of the registration of the gambling site.The gamblers mostly not like to share their kyc because of worry about the safety of their kyc.But the trusted gambling site never use to do that kyc for making money,only less bankroll gambling site will do the sale of the users kyc to the social network for making some dollars using the kyc data.

If it just small win or withdrawal then there no need to worry about KYC because we won't be asked for KYC as long as everything only involves small amounts of money, moreover the casino provides KYC requirements if it is only needed or needed.
But no one knows how many wins we can get and no one can predict how many wins we will have, if suddenly we get jackpot or a big win then we ourselves will be in trouble because in large withdrawals KYC will definitely be needed.
Indeed, it would be better to provide KYC from the start of registering, even if we only make small withdrawal, but if we unexpectedly get jackpot then we no longer need to think too much about the KYC requirements because they have been completed from the start.
Some gamblers are so afraid of KYC that they prioritize anonymity and the security of their personal data, but they forget that the casino has the authority to implement every provision it has.
As gamblers we must be able to maintain all stability and security in gambling, as much as possible we must avoid all problems that could occur at any time.

[EarnOnVictor]

That is true, and it's the risk of submitting a KYC documents to verify your account. However, it's not new as even banks and other financial institutions requires you to follow the KYC protocol. Hacking is possible, but it's less likely to happen if the site you are trusting has a strong security, so to ensure that they have, check  on their reputation and their popularity, if they have both what are you looking for, then trust them, but never think it's guaranteed that your account and documents are safe, or hack-free.

The gambler who want to have the smooth withdrawal after the win need to do the Kyc for the withdrawal.The crypto currency based exchanges itself ask the traders to do the Kyc for the withdrawal.So the gamblers should do not consider it as an Oxford things,they need to do the kyc at the time of the registration of the gambling site.The gamblers mostly not like to share their kyc because of worry about the safety of their kyc.But the trusted gambling site never use to do that kyc for making money,only less bankroll gambling site will do the sale of the users kyc to the social network for making some dollars using the kyc data.

You have a very good point here my friend but sadly it is not all gamblers that see things your way, many are so shallow-minded, all they know is to aurge, but later they will start complaining and crying foul. It is a better advantage for anyone to do the needful right from the beginning and get their mind at rest. At times too, some gamblers would want to wait for the withdrawal time before they complete the KYC, not knowing that issue could arise even then. One of the issues I've witnessed some gamblers lamenting about is the withdrawal of big amount of money. They would have been withdrawing little money before then without any issue whatsoever, and some might have even been spending over 5 years with their casinos before they were affected. To others too, they might block their account due to the restrictions of their country, and at times, they do not know of it. All these are not good and it is painful when they do not have access to their money anymore due to the laxity on their part.

Had it been that the KYC was done from the beginning, they would have been rest assured that they would be having itch-free withdrawals, and even if any issues arose, they would have known from the beginning to decide whether or not to avoid that casino and move to another one. A lot of casinos are using the later KYC to frustrate gamblers too, they will use the excuse to be asking for the documentation they will not be able to meet. This could have been avoided from the beginning, and if they later asked for additional documents, then you will know that they are evil if plainly such documents are to frustrate you. That is where you take it up with them and/or later leave still.