New Official AMT Thread

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Heh heh... If Bitmine was so chummy with CryptX http://www.cryptx.com/ the folks who brought us PetaHash as to get *them* apparently working miners (now being sold off through https://www.asic-hardware.com/ why so much trouble getting regular customers something usable? Pretty damn sure a pharming company like that would not have put up with non-functional hardware.

[FrictionlessCoin]

The small claims option is a joke...did some looking into it. Even IF I won, it would still be on me to get the money...they arent paying out anyway, so whats the point? I will just stay in the class or see if they settle out otherwise. @AMT I really really did not want to go this route, but you guys really have not left anyone any choice to address things any other way. You have not been true to your word once since you started posting. So we are stuck only using the available evidence before us to make a rational decision on anything. I am still open to addressing this properly but as it stands now I am looking at all my options.

What about hiring a collections agency?   Are we within our rights to have a collections agency go after them?

[NotFuzzyWarm]

What about hiring a collections agency?   Are we within our rights to have a collections agency go after them?

Only after a judgement is issued against someone. They of course will take a percentage of the amount to be collected but - in many states that is allowed to be added to the bill so to speak.

[FrictionlessCoin]

What about hiring a collections agency?   Are we within our rights to have a collections agency go after them?

Only after a judgement is issued against someone. They of course will take a percentage of the amount to be collected but - in many states that is allowed to be added to the bill so to speak.

Well then, the small claims court route then is not a waste of time.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Heh heh... If Bitmine was so chummy with CryptX http://www.cryptx.com/ the folks who brought us PetaHash as to get *them* apparently working miners (now being sold off through https://www.asic-hardware.com/ why so much trouble getting regular customers something usable? Pretty damn sure a pharming company like that would not have put up with non-functional hardware.

This a complete utter disaster,  now used TH/s miners are being sold off.  The 1 TH/s Coincraft Desk with the same # of chips as the AMT 1.2 TH/s miner is going for under $2,000.    Meanwhile we are all waiting for delivery of a $6,000 piece of equipment that is supposed to get ROI.

And another tick on the list of things against AMT/Bitmine.
Yes AMT probably was not directly involved with CryptX but the fact that usable miners were produce by BMch for a single very large customer should have reflected in what AMT could have provided us.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Hmm. Came across this in a Google ad http://www.michigan-colocation.com/index.php/server-colocation/bitcoin-miner-hosting They are in my neck of the woods. Long ago was there not mention 'pallets of miners being sent to Michigan" in the old thread?

[FrictionlessCoin]

Heh heh... If Bitmine was so chummy with CryptX http://www.cryptx.com/ the folks who brought us PetaHash as to get *them* apparently working miners (now being sold off through https://www.asic-hardware.com/ why so much trouble getting regular customers something usable? Pretty damn sure a pharming company like that would not have put up with non-functional hardware.

This a complete utter disaster,  now used TH/s miners are being sold off.  The 1 TH/s Coincraft Desk with the same # of chips as the AMT 1.2 TH/s miner is going for under $2,000.    Meanwhile we are all waiting for delivery of a $6,000 piece of equipment that is supposed to get ROI.

And another tick on the list of things against AMT/Bitmine.
Yes AMT probably was not directly involved with CryptX but the fact that usable miners were produce by BMch for a single very large customer should have reflected in what AMT could have provided us.

I agree.  Although Bitmine had delivery issues, there is no evidence that they've screwed up on the scale the AMT has screwed up.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

No 'had'. Bitmine is still not really shipping to non-mega customers by what their thread is saying. However, they *are* starting to refund money. http://bitminerefund.com/ Starting is the key word there.

Do check the Bitmine Coincraft A1 thread. Mighty hostile over there. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=291141.msg7003460#msg7003460

Fascinating... just came across Dogies Technobit Hex8A1 setup guide https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=586166
Love the heatsinks.

[opieum2]

Well seeing as the June response will go and this is likley the reason for their stalling in replies, I get the feeling we will be railroaded in all this. More than likely they will claim that people are intetionally wrecking the machines....which is something they have alleged before. Retarded argument really considering how many people are coming back with broken miners. The problem is the burden of proof is on them. It only takes a little forensic proof to show they intentionally shipped bad goods....in fact its already well documented here as it is. So they are going to have a hell of a time claiming people broke their miners.

They have continually made promises they have not kept. I was even assured (with a witness present) that my miners worked....lo and behold miner 1 crapped out almost totally within 5 minutes of powering up (with all power requirements having been met)....miner 2 gradually took a crap with now 1 working card....for the time being I have powered it off to avoid any further issues and have one working card to work with in the event I decide I want to fix their mess. I have not gotten any effort or contact from them in terms of documentation needed to make these things work. I am hazarding that documentation does not exist yet.

[plp]

I was trying to find where to file the small claim court does some one have the link handy ? I guess i am going to proceed with this tomorrow

[Syke]

Read http://www.courts.phila.gov/pdf/brochures/mc/SMALL-CLAIMS-PAMPHLET.pdf to start.

[rik_khaos]

Well seeing as the June response will go and this is likley the reason for their stalling in replies, I get the feeling we will be railroaded in all this. More than likely they will claim that people are intetionally wrecking the machines....which is something they have alleged before. Retarded argument really considering how many people are coming back with broken miners. The problem is the burden of proof is on them. It only takes a little forensic proof to show they intentionally shipped bad goods....in fact its already well documented here as it is. So they are going to have a hell of a time claiming people broke their miners.

They have continually made promises they have not kept. I was even assured (with a witness present) that my miners worked....lo and behold miner 1 crapped out almost totally within 5 minutes of powering up (with all power requirements having been met)....miner 2 gradually took a crap with now 1 working card....for the time being I have powered it off to avoid any further issues and have one working card to work with in the event I decide I want to fix their mess. I have not gotten any effort or contact from them in terms of documentation needed to make these things work. I am hazarding that documentation does not exist yet.

What june response are you speaking of?

[opieum2]

Well seeing as the June response will go and this is likley the reason for their stalling in replies, I get the feeling we will be railroaded in all this. More than likely they will claim that people are intetionally wrecking the machines....which is something they have alleged before. Retarded argument really considering how many people are coming back with broken miners. The problem is the burden of proof is on them. It only takes a little forensic proof to show they intentionally shipped bad goods....in fact its already well documented here as it is. So they are going to have a hell of a time claiming people broke their miners.

They have continually made promises they have not kept. I was even assured (with a witness present) that my miners worked....lo and behold miner 1 crapped out almost totally within 5 minutes of powering up (with all power requirements having been met)....miner 2 gradually took a crap with now 1 working card....for the time being I have powered it off to avoid any further issues and have one working card to work with in the event I decide I want to fix their mess. I have not gotten any effort or contact from them in terms of documentation needed to make these things work. I am hazarding that documentation does not exist yet.

What june response are you speaking of?

Check your PM.

[opieum2]

The small claims option is a joke...did some looking into it. Even IF I won, it would still be on me to get the money...they arent paying out anyway, so whats the point? I will just stay in the class or see if they settle out otherwise. @AMT I really really did not want to go this route, but you guys really have not left anyone any choice to address things any other way. You have not been true to your word once since you started posting. So we are stuck only using the available evidence before us to make a rational decision on anything. I am still open to addressing this properly but as it stands now I am looking at all my options.

What about hiring a collections agency?   Are we within our rights to have a collections agency go after them?

You have to hire them.....thats an expense. And not usually a cheap one. AND they often will plead down the amounts just to collect their fee. Does not always work out for the best.

[opieum2]

I think the bottom line is the waiting aspect. There have been a number of valid points made in terms of waiting. We have waited wayy too long for this to happen. And its just more waiting now....this should NEVER have happened. There has not been the promised transparency in any of this. And the more information we gather on whats really going on, the worse it looks. We don't have anything that resembles a real disclosure or admission other than the buck being passed onto the assemblers. At the end of the day the business is the owner of the mistakes. Generals do not pass the buck down to their officers when something goes wrong, they don't say well we lost the war because the soldiers suck....they are ultimately responsible. Captain doesn't blame the sailors for the ship sinking, that's on the captain. Everything here we heard was never AMT's fault from their perspective. Ownership of the problem was never on the table. Of course the obvious engineering problems and evidence speaks volumes otherwise.

At the end of the day its on them. I am sure they realize that. But their lack of integrity with their word, and their inability to deliver reliably is what has led to all this. Now they are changing gears into a hosted model instead of making us right. We had plans that depended on them fulfillnig their word. We lost money due to their inability to deliver. These are the issues we are all dealing with on some level or another.

Summary Analysis:
I started looking at bitcoinwisdom for historical data as far as loss of income in all this. Calculating the difficulty at the time and depreciating that over time how many bitcoins we actually lost (I calculated from the end of February to be fair as my order was in a couple weeks before that with a promise of 3 weeks delivery from time of order (which never happened). We lost alot. Profitwise on a 1.2Ths machine we lost well over 12000 since then. Even with the price of bitcoin fluctuating we still would be accumulating bitcoins.   The problem with getting the miners now with the hashrate we paid for originally is we would never ROI on them so we lose out. This is the problem that AMT needs to address if they have ANY hope of ever staying in business.

We need to be able to ROI on equipment they PROMISED would ROI based on the MPP. The MPP is a legal promise they advertised so they MUST make good on that. Its the point that is being ignored.


Conculsion:
1.2Ths (actually 1.0 if anyone has a fully working AMT miner that is hashing), will not ROI based on the price at that time. Even with the price of bitcoin going up, it will become very difficult to ROI on it. Not to mention IF we have AMT miners they are likely in some shape or form damaged through no fault of our own. For contrast I recently got a 3rd S2 from Bitmain, the cards were damaged in transit. I sent pics and contacted them and things are in arrangement to send them back and get replacements. This is service. Not this drama we have here. I can stomach shipping issues, if the customer service at the company side is excellent which it is. The takeway for all of us here...NO PREORDERS EVER AGAIN!!!

I am going to be preparing a more detailed chart on how this works. Its been something on my mind. I am going to suspend work on this driver as its going nowhere without the docs I need to make this work. It seems this is an issue across bitmine and AMT that needs addressing. I will post up a chart in the users thread to start documenting a profit curve of sorts on how money was lost due to delays. This will be useful in a number of cases from BFL, cointerra and such. Its going to be a work in progress. There is plenty of historical data to parse. So easy points of reference.

[opieum2]

Heh heh... If Bitmine was so chummy with CryptX http://www.cryptx.com/ the folks who brought us PetaHash as to get *them* apparently working miners (now being sold off through https://www.asic-hardware.com/ why so much trouble getting regular customers something usable? Pretty damn sure a pharming company like that would not have put up with non-functional hardware.

This a complete utter disaster,  now used TH/s miners are being sold off.  The 1 TH/s Coincraft Desk with the same # of chips as the AMT 1.2 TH/s miner is going for under $2,000.    Meanwhile we are all waiting for delivery of a $6,000 piece of equipment that is supposed to get ROI.

And another tick on the list of things against AMT/Bitmine.
Yes AMT probably was not directly involved with CryptX but the fact that usable miners were produce by BMch for a single very large customer should have reflected in what AMT could have provided us.

Interesting. Looks like they moved to spondoolies probably. But is that used hardware site even legit? Seems like it might be worth it to buy a couple of bits of hardware from there.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

According to a couple folks on the Bitmine thread the site is ligit.

Interesting. Looks like they moved to spondoolies probably. But is that used hardware site even legit? Seems like it might be worth it to buy a couple of bits of hardware from there.

According to a couple folks on the Bitmine thread the site is legit and they received their miners in a couple days.
You seen the power needed for the Cointerra? (again they are in serious trouble...) 1.9kw for 1.6TH. Ouch. I'm sticking with the Ant s2 thank you...

[FrictionlessCoin]

I have reached the point I am tired.....I am mulling what I will be doing next as I am getting no replies from them via email any more. Just here on the forums. But there is no follow through.

Josh appreciates your patience. The longer you wait, he gets to spend more and more of your money. Eventually they'll run out, declare bankruptcy, and you get nothing.

True, he can get away with bankruptcy, but not with Fraud that he committed  and illegal equipment that are not approved by FCC. He has pissed off many people and institutions..there are 1000+ more claims against him, and that mass is not easy to avoid!

I'm not even sure that he can declare bankruptcy.  

Here's one infamous case of a guy who defrauded investors:  http://www.ponziclawbacks.com/2013/07/24/3000-returns-on-bitcoin-probably-scam-sec/

Here is the SEC charge:  http://www.sec.gov/News/PressRelease/Detail/PressRelease/1370539730583

Excerpts:

The SEC alleges that Shavers promised investors up to 7 percent weekly interest based on BTCST’s Bitcoin market arbitrage activity, which supposedly included selling to individuals who wished to buy Bitcoin “off the radar” in quick fashion or large quantities.  In reality, BTCST was a sham and a Ponzi scheme in which Shavers used Bitcoin from new investors to make purported interest payments and cover investor withdrawals on outstanding BTCST investments.  Shavers also diverted investors’ Bitcoin for day trading in his account on a Bitcoin currency exchange, and exchanged investors’ Bitcoin for U.S. dollars to pay his personal expenses.

[opieum2]

I have reached the point I am tired.....I am mulling what I will be doing next as I am getting no replies from them via email any more. Just here on the forums. But there is no follow through.

Josh appreciates your patience. The longer you wait, he gets to spend more and more of your money. Eventually they'll run out, declare bankruptcy, and you get nothing.

True, he can get away with bankruptcy, but not with Fraud that he committed  and illegal equipment that are not approved by FCC. He has pissed off many people and institutions..there are 1000+ more claims against him, and that mass is not easy to avoid!

Actually he cant get away with bankruptcy. Not while there are creditors (us) in the mix. We need to be paid back according to whatever court appointed situation is placed. This has been demonstrated over and over again. IF and IF they declared bankruptcy they would be forced to liquidate assets which would extend to their personal assets as well seeing as those were used to pay for AMT apparently. No court would simply allow them to file chapter 7 or 13 under any condition until we got made whole first. ONCE they have fulfilled their obligations to us then they can be allowed to die so to speak.

[opieum2]

FYI for anyone interested all this is mirrored at https://bitcointa.lk/threads/new-official-amt-thread-2.298777/ with all deleted comments still present.....so dont feel bad if you are being censored its all still here.