New Official AMT Thread

[AMT_miners]

How much of the $825,000 does AMT have left?  Why did you not use this money to refund customers who requested a refund?  You know you were massively delayed by flawed manufacturing,  why did you not refund customers?  Why are you holding customers money hostage to make sure you can finally get your manufacturing corrected?

The only real logical conclusion is they under capitalized the business and as such probably used the lions share of any pre-order money on start up and daily operating costs.  Using any "left over" money for refunds likely would have killed the business altogether (read: left them cashless with massive liabilities and no way to pay them..) and left them no new way to generate "profit" which they need to have in order to start making restitution.  

This is the problem companies run into when they spend the "profit" before they have made any...  Now the only option they have is to try and stay in business to make "new" profits to pay back the old profit they spent but didn't actually fucking earn.  They're behind the 8 ball in a big way now and are scrambling and grasping at straws.  They are bleeding cash like a stuck pig at this point, no new revenue is coming in and liabilities are piling up  by the day.  It's hard to see how anything less than an infusion of NEW and ACTUAL capital will right the SS Minnow at this point.

I really don't know any of the technical product stuff but from a strictly business POV it is hard to see how a company like AMT can turn this around.  Honest to goodness companies with real business skills (which AMT doesn't appear to have) fail EVERYDAY.  AMT has shown at every opportunity that they are completely incompetent and I believe there is approximately a 0% chance they have the skill and mind set to turn this around.

All they are doing is delaying the inevitable and making things worse for themselves.  The writing is on the wall and one way or another sooner or later the AMT ship is sunk.  If they were smart business men the only thing they would be doing is figuring out where they can get cash (read: selling personal assets) to pay back their initial investomers.  Until this is done, using a single nickel on the "new" business model is tantamount to fraud.  If they somehow managed to pay back everyone then and only then would it be time for them to invest more of their own fucking money to produce a stock product to sell in the future.  That way they are the ones taking the risk and the company can pay them back when and if it ever can and not the fucking customers...

Agree entirely with your comments.

Around $825,000 was raised... likely in BTC when BTC was trading at over $800.  So roughly 1,000 BTC.  I speculate that AMT kept that money in Bitcoin.   That 1,000 BTC fortunately is now worth $660,000.  If  I recall correctly, 260K was spent on manufacturing.  So that leaves around $400,000 left.   Where is that $400,000?   There are supposed 150 miners sold so that means $2666 per miner should be available for refunds.

I would expect that the class action lawyers to shut down this company after the June 10th deadline.  Acquire all remaining assets (particularly those still in BTC) and distribute the proceeds to all customers.

This notion of delivering Technobit boards from asic chips salvaged from dead AMT boards isn't going to leave customers whole.   What the heck are they thinking?  

Also it appears that AMT also owes IMET money based on a bouncing check.  Is this not breach of contract here?

Finally,  did AMT ever send an email to all of its customers explaining delays?  No.  Not once did AMT email customers informing them of a delay of their shipment.   It is already 3 months since the expected delivery date, yet AMT is keeping all its customers in the dark.   

Yea stop speculating Carlos, your not even close.  

[AMT_miners]

AMT_Miners,

I'll tell you what, I'll drop my smack talk if you give me your 2.4TH/s miner; in exchange for this junky miner you gave me.

When do you want me to come down, and exchange?


~Casey

Casey,

Legally we are not allowed to discuss your order, your orders status, or consolidation of your order on an open forum. Please email Sales@advancedminers.com and the situation may be discussed.

Thank you.

[rik_khaos]

Why delete my post and leave his?

Because he is a client that tries to help resolve the issue and further the business if possible, he understands the situation and while taking an unbiased standpoint even he looks at the facts.

The problem is that most of your clients are not privy to the facts so sadly we can not judge the situation on them. Instead if anyone posts an opinion contrary to your personal bias the comment is deleted, or at least the perception for my point of view. Perhaps that is not how you mean to come across.

I'd love to help you, had even offered via e-mail to help on the customer service end as I was a retail manager for two years, in which I helped turn around a failing store. There was no response.

All I want if for this all to be over and if I had a magic wand to fix all the issues I'd lend it to you.

They even deleted a post of me saying we should not be biased or bigoted. I'll gladly share my deleted posts with anyone who wishes as this thread is being manicured to present a false narrative surrounding the entire reality of the situation.

If you'd care to send an NDA we'd be glad to hear what's really going on. Its all that most of us wanted to hear in the first place.

[rik_khaos]

I think a fun field trip would be to go watch the court proceedings. If it gets there before a settlement is reached.


We should find out from the lawyers when it is. 

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Why delete my post and leave his?

Because he is a client that tries to help resolve the issue and further the business if possible, he understands the situation and while taking an unbiased standpoint even he looks at the facts.

The problem is that most of your clients are not privy to the facts so sadly we can not judge the situation on them. Instead if anyone posts an opinion contrary to your personal bias the comment is deleted, or at least the perception for my point of view. Perhaps that is not how you mean to come across.

I'd love to help you, had even offered via e-mail to help on the customer service end as I was a retail manager for two years, in which I helped turn around a failing store. There was no response.

All I want if for this all to be over and if I had a magic wand to fix all the issues I'd lend it to you.

They even deleted a post of me saying we should not be biased or bigoted. I'll gladly share my deleted posts with anyone who wishes as this thread is being manicured to present a false narrative surrounding the entire reality of the situation.

If you'd care to send an NDA we'd be glad to hear what's really going on. Its all that most of us wanted to hear in the first place.

"Privy to the facts"... ROFL!

Hardly. All that those of us here working with AMT have is technical data and even getting that is like pulling teeth.

A few bits here and there about other things, NOTHING about business operations nor plans to address this mess. Which is as it should be. I for one do not want to know their inner-workings as it would raise serious legal implications for me. Noooo thank you!

[AMT_miners]

Why delete my post and leave his?

Because he is a client that tries to help resolve the issue and further the business if possible, he understands the situation and while taking an unbiased standpoint even he looks at the facts.

The problem is that most of your clients are not privy to the facts so sadly we can not judge the situation on them. Instead if anyone posts an opinion contrary to your personal bias they comment is deleted, or at least the perception for my point of view. Perhaps that is not how you mean to come across.

I'd love to help you, had even offered via e-mail to help on the customer service end as I was a retail manager for two years, in which I helped turn around a failing store. There was no response.

All I want if for this all to be over and if I had a magic wand to fix all the issues I'd lend it to you.

They even deleted a post of me saying we should not be biased or bigoted. I'll gladly share my deleted posts with anyone who wishes as this thread is being manicured to present a false narrative surrounding the entire reality of the situation.

If you'd care to send an NDA we'd be glad to hear what's really going on. Its all that most of us wanted to hear in the first place.

We'd like to put it out in the open, and it will in due time. We are not con-men, or a scam. Even our manufacturer's CEO (who must have some damn free time to spend) has gotten on this forum to try and prevent the inevitable. It was just an instance where several things happened in the wrong way in a continuous order. There is no one to blame other than ourselves and our choices which we have made until this point. We remove comments based on the content in those comments. Like employee names or customer opinions that may seem like spam, or opinions of those that have just tried to bring us down from day one like phineaus or sirminesalot (who most likely does not mine alot btw) for example.

All in all, if our clientele were smart, they'd try and help us succeed so we could generate new income, deliver promptly and take actions necessary to keep them at a level which is equal to or above satisfaction. Every comment with a negative context about AMT results in the possible lack of sale, or the inevitable closure of business due to mistakes made on both sides, on ours and our clients side as well. We have never been politically correct from a corporate standpoint, but it was also that aspect which attracted some of our clients to begin with. "who cares if they are assholes, they get the job done and I got my miner and it mines" which was said about us after delivering the bitfury miners when we started.

Yes we may have disorganized management. And we may have trusted the wrong people, or manufacturers or even consultants which led us down this path today. But it was our fault to do so.  And all in all, there isn't much we can do it about it now, so when your backed up in a corner by everyone around you, one either fight them off one by one until your out of the corner, or you collapse and take the beating and wallow in it for years to come. Which do you think we're going to do based on what you know about us.

And even when its out in the open, and everyone's knows exactly what happened which to an extent has been posted on this forum already we believe, by an eve's dropper of sorts in our office, those which were greedy from the start would never be satisfied anyway. So either we work to build our business to rectify all of our clients, or we give up and go bankrupt and then you'll all fee the same way hashfast's clients feel now. Or we'll be put in prison for fraud even though its clear that we partnered with a swiss company, who made a chip, who was late, and we hired subcontracted manufacturer who has admitted faults in their production and when we still sought alternative options for clients and were silenced by plaintiff's counsel for fear of loosing everything all together when trying to provide those options to customers. How is that going to impact plaintiff's counsel? And now, we can either deliver your original orders, or settle, or fight or give up.

There have been other characters (very few) in this industry that have been through the exact same thing even and even after it was done and finished and there were no legal obligations of repayment, they still made sure people were paid back or at least satisfied to some extent. Anyone remember Basic?

But its hard to do that when your name is ruined on google, and its even harder when some of your clients have nothing better to do then sit on a forum waiting for an outcome which can only result in their further dissatisfaction. Like the people that go to a casino to loose, just to feel the rush. And when a hillbilly extortionist from Illinois still on a day to day basis makes sure things are optimized so carefully because hes being paid by a competitor.  

Think about it logically and put yourselves in our position and ask yourselves what you do. After you've already lost the race, would you give up and choose to not stay in an skeptical market which sells a machine that produces an electronic algorythm which doesn't exist and has no value other than that of which its given by the community around it. Think about it, and then ask us again why we need to delete posts and what our intentions are going forward.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

AMT_MINERS - Well put.
Doubt many will get and understand the message you tried to put across though.

[rik_khaos]

Why delete my post and leave his?

Because he is a client that tries to help resolve the issue and further the business if possible, he understands the situation and while taking an unbiased standpoint even he looks at the facts.

The problem is that most of your clients are not privy to the facts so sadly we can not judge the situation on them. Instead if anyone posts an opinion contrary to your personal bias the comment is deleted, or at least the perception for my point of view. Perhaps that is not how you mean to come across.

I'd love to help you, had even offered via e-mail to help on the customer service end as I was a retail manager for two years, in which I helped turn around a failing store. There was no response.

All I want if for this all to be over and if I had a magic wand to fix all the issues I'd lend it to you.

They even deleted a post of me saying we should not be biased or bigoted. I'll gladly share my deleted posts with anyone who wishes as this thread is being manicured to present a false narrative surrounding the entire reality of the situation.

If you'd care to send an NDA we'd be glad to hear what's really going on. Its all that most of us wanted to hear in the first place.

"Privy to the facts"... ROFL!

Hardly. All that those of us here working with AMT have is technical data and even getting that is like pulling teeth.

A few bits here and there about other things, NOTHING about business operations/plans which is as it should be. I for one do not want to know their inner-workings as it would raise serious legal implications for me. Noooo thank you!

I never said you knew everything. Just that their clientele don't have access to the facts.  But Josh is acting like those of you who have the technical background are the only ones capable of understanding what a predicament they are in and that their whole whole woe is me story justifies the mistreatment of their clientele as a whole.

I'm not an engineer, I'm not a programer but I understand the concept of potentially getting screwed over in a business transaction, where one party says they are doing something but does another.

Is it unfortunate for them? Absolutely. Is it unfortunate for us? You bet. Do we deserve to be treated like this? Not a chance.




Edit posted before AMT's comments. I'll digest and then respond as is only fair.

[rik_khaos]

" "who cares if they are assholes, they get the job done and I got my miner and it mines""

I've held this opinion from day one. It's why I ordered from you in the first place. I talked to someone on your staff and said, hell they aren't PC  but neither am I, but if they can deliver as they said and my miner works then fuck it, I rather deal with that company than the company that blows some up my ass. This was in January when I called, I looked around at others on offer but came back to you. I called again on January 31st and talked with someone. I specifically asked if things were still on track. I was told by whomever it was on the phone that you guys were actually a bit ahead of schedule. I was like "fuck yeah, an american company who is going to be ready to get this done." I place my order that day and sent out my check the next, it was delayed by that fuck of a storm that hit, I was in town for a funeral or it would have flown out of Arizona and missed the weather.

But the problem is, as issues started mounting your communication started shutting down when it should have been ramping up. When some you sends you thousands of dollars for the product the "No news, is good news" saying goes out the window. A simple message to your customers via e-mail or even your website would have done wonders. I can accept a delay if you tell me about it. It's all about managing the expectations of your clients. I had e-mailed a few times when it was getting obvious there were some issues at hand asking if my order was still on pace. Each time I got an affirmative. All it would have taken was, "I'm sorry Mr. Shaffer ( or just curt) but due to some unforeseen issues with the manufacturing process the projected date of your shipment will pushed back, just know we are working our hardest to correct any issues and we'll keep you updated" that will dissipate so many worries.

But now it is May and I can't say "who cares if they are assholes, they get the job done and I got my miner and it mines"

As for deleting post you asked what I would do. I would leave every post up, every single inane, asinine,  annoying post that phin put up. You know why? Because if your detractors look like loons then you by comparison look sane. Also then I could embrace the fact that I fucked up and point to that every time I made headway in getting a solution. "I know we fucked this up, but look what we did to make this better for you in the end."  That is how you earn your reputation  back, not pretend that you never had a bad one.


I want you to succeed, my success depends on it. You pushed Craig's buttons and he took off and landed right at the lawyers. It was your provocation, and hubris, that lead to the lawsuit. That lead to the inability to deal with customers directly. That's not my fault and you're not going to get sympathy from me over it. As much as you feel you've been in painted into the corner you're the one holding the brush. I'm on the opposite side of that room where you painted us into the corner that required taking actions to ensure we'd ever see our property or or money.

I've said from the start that I didn't want to deal with lawyers, they take too much of my money and too much of your on top of wasting our time. It's why I've not filed a lawsuit in what would be a slamdunk case. It's not how I want to operate. Your terms said you wanted to go through arbitration prior to lawsuit. I attempted that route only to receive no word from you.

Now I have to wait to find out how everything plays out before I can get on with my life. Same as you. We're both up shit creek and we're sharing the same canoe.

Then I have to see if there is a judgment in our favor if it's something I want to accept or if I think I can work with you to come to a better resolution. I'm part of the law suit not because I want to be but because the nature of the suite, and it suck balls because it all could have been avoided

[mrpark]

AMT is still calling the shots, if they are going to be able to continue to do so is to be seen. Basically, what they are saying is "If our brand new business idea does great, you "might" get something back at some point in the future or at least the bare minimum." So, basically we are supposed to calm down in this forum, because that small chance of getting something if their potential "new company" does well would be jeopardized any favors from AMT. Basically, our original investment is being put in a new startup and if the company does well, they might be nice guys and continue to throw us bones so we keep calm along the way.  So, for me to have each part of their new business shutdown or slowed down (believe it or not, I can do it) It would not make sense because if I did that I would have no potential benefits from the new company. In the same manner, me having them locked up would also not pay, since they would not longer trickle back our original investment over x amount of time.  We basically will need to beg as their new company gains steam (if it happens), so we can continue to chase our ROI over time. Maybe at some point we would become only 50% angry, and then 30% angry down to 0% angry over time.  I will chill out with my posting for a while, its not going to change the outcome as far as our payback is concerned.

[opieum2]

AMT is still calling the shots, if they are going to be able to continue to do so is to be seen. Basically, what they are saying is "If our brand new business idea does great, you "might" get something back at some point in the future or at least the bare minimum." So, basically we are supposed to calm down in this forum, because that small chance of getting something if their potential "new company" does well would be jeopardized any favors from AMT. Basically, our original investment is being put in a new startup and if the company does well, they might be nice guys and continue to throw us bones so we keep calm along the way.  So, for me to have each part of their new business shutdown or slowed down (believe it or not, I can do it) It would not make sense because if I did that I would have no potential benefits from the new company. In the same manner, me having them locked up would also not pay, since they would not longer trickle back our original investment over x amount of time.  We basically will need to beg as their new company gains steam (if it happens), so we can continue to chase our ROI over time. Maybe at some point we would become only 50% angry, and then 30% angry down to 0% angry over time.  I will chill out with my posting for a while, its not going to change the outcome as far as our payback is concerned.

I don't think AMT should be investing any more of the customer proceeds on speculative investments like creating technobit boards or creating scrypt miners.   They have shown little technical capability in executing effectively.  Furthermore, their ability to provide good customer relations is clearly pathetic.

The current assets are being spent on business that has no future.  That is the current reality.

To be fair hardware is not a speculative investment. Its nice to throw buzzwords around, but realize what you are saying. They had modest success with their previous technobit implementation....when they moved to the bitmine designs is when the mess really started.

The customer relations aspect I have to agree though does need alot of work. I have been at least advising there to try to make sure the right things are said (not lies just diplomacy) I think I have more than demonstrated I am capable of that in written form at least.

But AMT is at least trying to keep things going. Other guys are folding hard. Alot of people seem hellbent on wanting them to fail now that they are trying to pick themselves up. It actually is worse off for us if they fold...sure we get hardware but likley the bare minimum to satisfy the court....and then they fold. It's already been established that they are not accepting new sales...which means no new money. Which means they just wont have the resources to compensate us even if that compensation is deferred (which financially and logistically is more realistic than expecting an immediate drop of FULL compensation....partial to start with would be realistic) this is my take on it and how it makes sense to do it if no money comes in because business was shut down. Of course AMT has their business and its theirs to manage as they will....courts will take their financial situation into account as the court will have them checked out for their finances if that is a disputable item in the case.

Honestly if they have a well thought out plan for compensating us (technobit boards with reliable designs and whatever else they do in that regard) a support/RMA to address any inevitable issues (because its tech and there are always issues of some kind)....also IF the new product is good (I believe it will be), then there is a shot at new sales for them (no pre-orders), we give feedback on the new product help them generate new sales which ultimately benefits those of us waiting for a deferred comp.

Again if I were in this situation, this is personally how I think a fair and appropriate comp plan would be. People get what they initially paid for and then gradually as sales start to uptick again, compensate back in an appropriate manner that covers things according to what the MPP stated. Its not a perfect solution that everyone will like...BUT it will at least satisfy legal requirements and most people (there are some who will just be obstinate regardless of what they get).

That being said I am making sure this is understood by AMT as well. While the above business idea is MY OPINION and how I would handle it based on business experience (and thinking if I ever got into that situation how would I do it?)....I am making sure it is about us getting rightly made whole, while allowing their business to legitimately thrive. There are some possibilities there.

With trust broken here and all sorts of other things going on, its a massive uphill battle AMT is fighting now. The onus is on them to make sure they start getting back on the hore horse and riding it to victory. I think they can do it they do have some good ideas that could turn things around on alot of levels...sadly there are those who are hellbent on seeing them fail no matter what. Not just AMT but a number of other companies out there.

EDIT typos happen when I hit send to quick lol.

[FrictionlessCoin]

My replies in RED.

AMT is still calling the shots, if they are going to be able to continue to do so is to be seen. Basically, what they are saying is "If our brand new business idea does great, you "might" get something back at some point in the future or at least the bare minimum." So, basically we are supposed to calm down in this forum, because that small chance of getting something if their potential "new company" does well would be jeopardized any favors from AMT. Basically, our original investment is being put in a new startup and if the company does well, they might be nice guys and continue to throw us bones so we keep calm along the way.  So, for me to have each part of their new business shutdown or slowed down (believe it or not, I can do it) It would not make sense because if I did that I would have no potential benefits from the new company. In the same manner, me having them locked up would also not pay, since they would not longer trickle back our original investment over x amount of time.  We basically will need to beg as their new company gains steam (if it happens), so we can continue to chase our ROI over time. Maybe at some point we would become only 50% angry, and then 30% angry down to 0% angry over time.  I will chill out with my posting for a while, its not going to change the outcome as far as our payback is concerned.

I don't think AMT should be investing any more of the customer proceeds on speculative investments like creating technobit boards or creating scrypt miners.   They have shown little technical capability in executing effectively.  Furthermore, their ability to provide good customer relations is clearly pathetic.

The current assets are being spent on business that has no future.  That is the current reality.

To be fair hardware is not a speculative investment. Its nice to throw buzzwords around, but realize what you are saying. They had modest success with their previous technobit implementation....when they moved to the bitmine designs is when the mess really started.
It is highly speculative in that the extremly high rate of depreciation of this hardware.   You manufacture bitcoin hardware in one month the price of this hardware is cut in half.    Go to CEX.IO and see how wild the fluctuation of GHs per BTC.    This is not like manufacturing PC boards..


The customer relations aspect I have to agree though does need alot of work. I have been at least advising there to try to make sure the right things are said (not lies just diplomacy) I think I have more than demonstrated I am capable of that in written form at least.

But AMT is at least trying to keep things going. Other guys are folding hard. Alot of people seem hellbent on wanting them to fail now that they are trying to pick themselves up. It actually is worse off for us if they fold...sure we get hardware but likley the bare minimum to satisfy the court....and then they fold. It's already been established that they are not accepting new sales...which means no new money. Which means they just wont have the resources to compensate us even if that compensation is deferred (which financially and logistically is more realistic than expecting an immediate drop of FULL compensation....partial to start with would be realistic) this is my take on it and how it makes sense to do it if no money comes in because business was shut down. Of course AMT has their business and its theirs to manage as they will....courts will take their financial situation into account as the court will have them checked out for their finances if that is a disputable item in the case.
AMT cash is customers money that they have not refunded for lack of delivery.   They have no right to spend this money on additional speculation.


Honestly if they have a well thought out plan for compensating us (technobit boards with reliable designs and whatever else they do in that regard) a support/RMA to address any inevitable issues (because its tech and there are always issues of some kind)....also IF the new product is good (I believe it will be), then there is a shot at new sales for them (no pre-orders), we give feedback on the new product help them generate new sales which ultimately benefits those of us waiting for a deferred comp.
Customers need to see a break down of the cost to (1)License the new design (2) buy new parts (3) manufacture new boards (4) provide customer support (5) package and shp (6) handle returns.   As compared to (1) refunding the money straight up.

Let us be real here.  The competition are selling 1.2 TH/s systems at under $2,000.   Has AMT made a statement that they sill ship customers 3.6 TH/s for the $6,000 we paid?


Again if I were in this situation, this is personally how I think a fair and appropriate comp plan would be. People get what they initially paid for and then gradually as sales start to uptick again, compensate back in an appropriate manner that covers things according to what the MPP stated. Its not a perfect solution that everyone will like...BUT it will at least satisfy legal requirements and most people (there are some who will just be obstinate regardless of what they get).

That being said I am making sure this is understood by AMT as well. While the above business idea is MY OPINION and how I would handle it based on business experience (and thinking if I ever got into that situation how would I do it?)....I am making sure it is about us getting rightly made whole, while allowing their business to legitimately thrive. There are some possibilities there.
I do not think AMT understands that shipping a 1.2 TH/s to customer is sufficient at this time. 

With trust broken here and all sorts of other things going on, its a massive uphill battle AMT is fighting now. The onus is on them to make sure they start getting back on the hore horse and riding it to victory. I think they can do it they do have some good ideas that could turn things around on alot of levels...sadly there are those who are hellbent on seeing them fail no matter what. Not just AMT but a number of other companies out there.
I and many other customers are not willing to take that speculative gamble that AMT will pull through.

EDIT typos happen when I hit send to quick lol.

[rik_khaos]

I'm actually very surprised they didn't move to freeze their assets. Or maybe they tried to initially and someone showed leniency, maybe this will have to be answered for by the 10th.

[opieum2]

I'm actually very surprised they didn't move to freeze their assets. Or maybe they tried to initially and someone showed leniency, maybe this will have to be answered for by the 10th.

Actually not even sure where that date came from. Its the 16th. You should be able to call chimcles and confirm. They told me generally middle of the month. The 16th seems more in line with that. Someone else might want to call and confirm that though.

[rik_khaos]

I'm actually very surprised they didn't move to freeze their assets. Or maybe they tried to initially and someone showed leniency, maybe this will have to be answered for by the 10th.

Actually not even sure where that date came from. Its the 16th. You should be able to call chimcles and confirm. They told me generally middle of the month. The 16th seems more in line with that. Someone else might want to call and confirm that though.

Fair enough. I didn't if it was even actually granted class action status? If not then then AMT should be able to deal with us directly because the lawyers would only be representing three people.

[opieum2]

My replies to your replies in navy blue....

My replies in RED.

AMT is still calling the shots, if they are going to be able to continue to do so is to be seen. Basically, what they are saying is "If our brand new business idea does great, you "might" get something back at some point in the future or at least the bare minimum." So, basically we are supposed to calm down in this forum, because that small chance of getting something if their potential "new company" does well would be jeopardized any favors from AMT. Basically, our original investment is being put in a new startup and if the company does well, they might be nice guys and continue to throw us bones so we keep calm along the way.  So, for me to have each part of their new business shutdown or slowed down (believe it or not, I can do it) It would not make sense because if I did that I would have no potential benefits from the new company. In the same manner, me having them locked up would also not pay, since they would not longer trickle back our original investment over x amount of time.  We basically will need to beg as their new company gains steam (if it happens), so we can continue to chase our ROI over time. Maybe at some point we would become only 50% angry, and then 30% angry down to 0% angry over time.  I will chill out with my posting for a while, its not going to change the outcome as far as our payback is concerned.

I don't think AMT should be investing any more of the customer proceeds on speculative investments like creating technobit boards or creating scrypt miners.   They have shown little technical capability in executing effectively.  Furthermore, their ability to provide good customer relations is clearly pathetic.

The current assets are being spent on business that has no future.  That is the current reality.

To be fair hardware is not a speculative investment. Its nice to throw buzzwords around, but realize what you are saying. They had modest success with their previous technobit implementation....when they moved to the bitmine designs is when the mess really started.
It is highly speculative in that the extremly high rate of depreciation of this hardware.   You manufacture bitcoin hardware in one month the price of this hardware is cut in half.    Go to CEX.IO and see how wild the fluctuation of GHs per BTC.    This is not like manufacturing PC boards..

Actually PC hardware also has a depreciative value...I get your premise being on the ROI but its the wrong argument here...on PC hardware deprciation occurs at a much slower rate I give you that.....The massive difference is its not speculative, its expected unless you are looking at specific applications with a profit motive (servers not desktops)......when we bought this hardware we bought the risk of speculation that came with it in terms of bitcoin value up/down. CEX.io is a cloud provider...they dont furnish hardware...your argument is invalid on that point alone. This is an apples to footballs comparison here

The customer relations aspect I have to agree though does need alot of work. I have been at least advising there to try to make sure the right things are said (not lies just diplomacy) I think I have more than demonstrated I am capable of that in written form at least.

But AMT is at least trying to keep things going. Other guys are folding hard. Alot of people seem hellbent on wanting them to fail now that they are trying to pick themselves up. It actually is worse off for us if they fold...sure we get hardware but likley the bare minimum to satisfy the court....and then they fold. It's already been established that they are not accepting new sales...which means no new money. Which means they just wont have the resources to compensate us even if that compensation is deferred (which financially and logistically is more realistic than expecting an immediate drop of FULL compensation....partial to start with would be realistic) this is my take on it and how it makes sense to do it if no money comes in because business was shut down. Of course AMT has their business and its theirs to manage as they will....courts will take their financial situation into account as the court will have them checked out for their finances if that is a disputable item in the case.
AMT cash is customers money that they have not refunded for lack of delivery.   They have no right to spend this money on additional speculation.

I only agree on this only to the point that the money needs to be spent in priority to make sure we are made right again..I do not agree however on the speculation piece...speculation is managed risk for everyone involved. They are investing (again our dollars which I do not agree with fully) into what makes business sense to generate more money.....this is necessary for any business to survive.They are in obvious survival mode.


Honestly if they have a well thought out plan for compensating us (technobit boards with reliable designs and whatever else they do in that regard) a support/RMA to address any inevitable issues (because its tech and there are always issues of some kind)....also IF the new product is good (I believe it will be), then there is a shot at new sales for them (no pre-orders), we give feedback on the new product help them generate new sales which ultimately benefits those of us waiting for a deferred comp.
Customers need to see a break down of the cost to (1)License the new design (2) buy new parts (3) manufacture new boards (4) provide customer support (5) package and shp (6) handle returns.   As compared to (1) refunding the money straight up.

Let us be real here.  The competition are selling 1.2 TH/s systems at under $2,000.   Has AMT made a statement that they sill ship customers 3.6 TH/s for the $6,000 we paid?


Lets be even realer here....No statement has been made at all, secondly we purchased our hardware from AMT at the then market price....that said, the MPP is in force here and AMT has to honor that.....again those are details they need to work out to avoid further litigation...they clearly know this. I am actively working with them to make sure we all walk away from this in a good spot. The goal here is to allow for a win-win for everyone which is possible....also in regards to the numbered list items, they really don't have to show us that...no business ever does for competitive reasons. Go ask any company to show you that breakdown and they will laugh you out the door. Its a competitive advantage as some companies get discounts or other things that allow them to compete better. Because we are "investomers" sure we COULD and SHOULD have a say...but there is nothing right now on the books legally that allows for that.So again this cannot work...it might in an ideal world, but in a practical sense noone ever does because its part of a business process and there are contracts and other legal (NDA's) that forbid disclosure of that kind of info...the ONLY item valid is refunding money straight up. That is really the only option that has merit and is one that should have been considered but its irrelevant at the moment because its not happening

Again if I were in this situation, this is personally how I think a fair and appropriate comp plan would be. People get what they initially paid for and then gradually as sales start to uptick again, compensate back in an appropriate manner that covers things according to what the MPP stated. Its not a perfect solution that everyone will like...BUT it will at least satisfy legal requirements and most people (there are some who will just be obstinate regardless of what they get).

That being said I am making sure this is understood by AMT as well. While the above business idea is MY OPINION and how I would handle it based on business experience (and thinking if I ever got into that situation how would I do it?)....I am making sure it is about us getting rightly made whole, while allowing their business to legitimately thrive. There are some possibilities there.
I do not think AMT understands that shipping a 1.2 TH/s to customer is sufficient at this time. 
Re-read what I wrote....the goal is to get everyone INITIALLY 1.2Ths miner with a deferred comp shortly after once they have capital to do so....again they want to stay in business BUT there has to be a logical business plan to satisfy both the court (and us) and insure their existence as a business (yes many think they should go away but if they are looking to be a real player then they have a right to make that happen if they do things correctly regardless of peoples opinions of them)

With trust broken here and all sorts of other things going on, its a massive uphill battle AMT is fighting now. The onus is on them to make sure they start getting back on the hore horse and riding it to victory. I think they can do it they do have some good ideas that could turn things around on alot of levels...sadly there are those who are hellbent on seeing them fail no matter what. Not just AMT but a number of other companies out there.
I and many other customers are not willing to take that speculative gamble that AMT will pull through.
Then no one gets anything...consider the long term of this....if they go out of business, we get nothing...if we force them into doing it now we run the risk again of getting bad hardware and them going bankrupt and us not getting any support....again my motivation for helping them (for free) is to make sure they get shit done right because in doing so it benefits us all. Alot of it right now is advice in going in the best direction, the priority is and has been making sure everyone is whole again. AMT knows this. SO it benefits us all to make sure they stay in business long enough for that to happen. Short term emotional thinking will get us little or nothing in the end.  
EDIT typos happen when I hit send to quick lol.

[opieum2]

I'm actually very surprised they didn't move to freeze their assets. Or maybe they tried to initially and someone showed leniency, maybe this will have to be answered for by the 10th.

Actually not even sure where that date came from. Its the 16th. You should be able to call chimcles and confirm. They told me generally middle of the month. The 16th seems more in line with that. Someone else might want to call and confirm that though.

Fair enough. I didn't if it was even actually granted class action status? If not then then AMT should be able to deal with us directly because the lawyers would only be representing three people.

Riddle me this... why can't AMT tell us when they are required to send a response to the court?

Riddle me this....why can't you pick up a phone and call chimcles for that answer? Trying not to be snarky here, but I actually called them and got middle of the month as a response, due diligence. As for the response they are being told by their legal team most likley to stay off the forums as much as possible. Standard practice in any case like this for the defense is to do everything possible to avoid self-incrimination. And even commenting on that would be something. They have tried to explain as much as possible. I am still pissed over the situation, but I am looking at ways to turn lemons into lemonade here not just for me but for everyone who got screwed...

Honestly you could also email them and see if you get a reply since they said they would reply in emails....its unrealistic to expect them to open up about a legal matter on an open forum. They are walking on eggshells but at the same time trying to maintain communication with us. A bad situation to be in.

[Syke]

I may have said the 10th, but according to others it's mid-month or the 16th. But even so, why is AMT waiting, why not just call the lawyer and spill the beans on what they are going to do for us now? I live in North NJ, about an hour and 15 from IMET. I am sure IMET is not just going to give me some free parts.

Call IMET and ask to buy some boards for cost. IMET might love to get some money out of this disaster.

[opieum2]

I may have said the 10th, but according to others it's mid-month or the 16th. But even so, why is AMT waiting, why not just call the lawyer and spill the beans on what they are going to do for us now? I live in North NJ, about an hour and 15 from IMET. I am sure IMET is not just going to give me some free parts.

Call IMET and ask to buy some boards for cost. IMET might love to get some money out of this disaster.

That actually might not be a terrible idea if we know the stuff works. The problem is its more money to piss away.....ROI and all that as has been stated. But not a terrible idea. Last resort situation....

[rik_khaos]

I'm actually very surprised they didn't move to freeze their assets. Or maybe they tried to initially and someone showed leniency, maybe this will have to be answered for by the 10th.

Actually not even sure where that date came from. Its the 16th. You should be able to call chimcles and confirm. They told me generally middle of the month. The 16th seems more in line with that. Someone else might want to call and confirm that though.

ORDER THAT UPON CONSIDERATION OF DEFENDANTS' MOTION FOR EXTENSION OF TIME TO RESPOND TO COMPLAINT 9 , IT IS HEREBY ORDERED THAT THE MOTION IS GRANTED. IT IS FURTHER ORDERED THAT, ON OR BEFORE 6/16/2014, DEFENDANTS SHALL ANSWER OR OTHERWISE RESPOND TO PLAINTIFFS' COMPLAINT 1 AND PLAINTIFFS' MOTION TO CERTIFY CLASS 3 . SIGNED BY HONORABLE LEGROME D. DAVIS ON 4/30/14.4/30/14 ENTERED AND COPIES E-MAILED.(ti, ) (Entered: 04/30/2014)