[ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11

[rbauer85]

KARM really staring to take off on mintpal. All of the hard work organizing this company coin, that you all have been doing, is starting to pay off!!!

[rbauer85]

Shares and Points list has been updated: http://karmashares.com/explorer-v01

Total shares claimed           78,807,725                       
                                            
Total shares unclaimed   146,206,700

% of company claimed           35.02

fyi, it would take a little under $1 million USD to buy the remaining 64% available (assuming 100 litoshi coin price)

$1 million USD is a lot considering the market cap of the entire coin is only $500,000

[ptman]

KARM really staring to take off on mintpal. All of the hard work organizing this company coin, that you all have been doing, is starting to pay off!!!

I think that buing Karm and investing in Karmashares is one of the best things you can do right now as an investment.

Imagine what you can get in return in months or a year or two (and how much you could help others as a sonsequence) if you have, for instance, 1% of Karmashares.

[ptman]

Shares and Points list has been updated: http://karmashares.com/explorer-v01

Total shares claimed           78,807,725                       
                                            
Total shares unclaimed   146,206,700

% of company claimed           35.02

fyi, it would take a little under $1 million USD to buy the remaining 64% available (assuming 100 litoshi coin price)

$1 million USD is a lot considering the market cap of the entire coin is only $500,000

We are not going to stay with a $500,000 market cap for long. We will have a $2,500,000 market cap in some weeks.

Of course a strong buying (and increased mining also) action will make the price of Karma skyrocket (500 litoshy maybe?) in the next weeks, and the market cap will go up of course.

[ranlo]

96 Litoshis
We see some cool buys, but in my opinion it is not a pump. People woke up and started to realize that they don't want to miss our train.

  Welcome aboard !

Good buys, but a sell wall went up @95 for 43 ltc on mintpal and 39 ltc @ cryptsy. Lets see if it gets eaten up or if we start to fade back down. Not necessarily big walls but still a tough climb....

EDIT: also no buy support until the 60's, I see our new floor being in the 60-70 range...

EDIT again: It was removed and we broke 100

I will say that at this point it's getting interesting. I expected to wake up and see it back in the 40's. That doesn't appear to be happening.

Is the 90-100 area the new floor now? Or is this just someone manipulating prices? The amount of money (compared to how much there was before) flowing in just doesn't sit right with me.

[ptman]

96 Litoshis
We see some cool buys, but in my opinion it is not a pump. People woke up and started to realize that they don't want to miss our train.

  Welcome aboard !

Good buys, but a sell wall went up @95 for 43 ltc on mintpal and 39 ltc @ cryptsy. Lets see if it gets eaten up or if we start to fade back down. Not necessarily big walls but still a tough climb....

EDIT: also no buy support until the 60's, I see our new floor being in the 60-70 range...

EDIT again: It was removed and we broke 100

I will say that at this point it's getting interesting. I expected to wake up and see it back in the 40's. That doesn't appear to be happening.

Is the 90-100 area the new floor now? Or is this just someone manipulating prices? The amount of money (compared to how much there was before) flowing in just doesn't sit right with me.

How much do you understand about cryptocurrencies?

Even if you look at the net hash rate increse alone you will understand that the price of 90-100 litoshi represents an healthy increased considering the doubling of the hashrate.

If you look also at all the work that the dev team and comunity has been doing then you will consider Karma EXTREMELY CHEAP right now

You (and me) see shitcoins being pumped every day.
And when a coin with brilliant plans (and brilliant people to make it happen) has a healhy increase you are surprised that the price is going up?

[ranlo]

96 Litoshis
We see some cool buys, but in my opinion it is not a pump. People woke up and started to realize that they don't want to miss our train.

  Welcome aboard !

Good buys, but a sell wall went up @95 for 43 ltc on mintpal and 39 ltc @ cryptsy. Lets see if it gets eaten up or if we start to fade back down. Not necessarily big walls but still a tough climb....

EDIT: also no buy support until the 60's, I see our new floor being in the 60-70 range...

EDIT again: It was removed and we broke 100

I will say that at this point it's getting interesting. I expected to wake up and see it back in the 40's. That doesn't appear to be happening.

Is the 90-100 area the new floor now? Or is this just someone manipulating prices? The amount of money (compared to how much there was before) flowing in just doesn't sit right with me.

How much do you understand about cryptocurrencies?

Even if you look at the net hash rate increse alone you will understand that the price of 90-100 litoshi represents an healthy increased considering the doubling of the hashrate.

If you look also at all the work that the dev team and comunity has been doing then you will consider Karma EXTREMELY CHEAP right now

The price is high compared to:

A) The way it's been flowing

B) The lack of new/exciting information (if a new project had been announced or something was released Live, like Lill.com, it'd be different)

C) What does hash rate have to do with the value of a coin? Litecoin is going up in hash rate but its value is going down

It's about economics, and there's no reason for this push upward at this point. Do I have doubts the coin will eventually be worth a lot? No. But this push is separate from that.

[ptman]

The price is high compared to:

A) The way it's been flowing

B) The lack of new/exciting information (if a new project had been announced or something was released Live, like Lill.com, it'd be different)

C) What does hash rate have to do with the value of a coin? Litecoin is going up in hash rate but its value is going down

It's about economics, and there's no reason for this push upward at this point. Do I have doubts the coin will eventually be worth a lot? No. But this push is separate from that.

A) The way it has been flowing in the past few weeks does not represent the way it will flow. The fact most people did not recognized the real value of Karma (and the people behind it), does not mean they will not recognize in future.

B) There is new exciting information comming out if you look out. New beta of LILL.com with major new features will be out in a few days. Every time a new beta is lanched a lot of previously not convinced investor will convert to Karma.
Also, there are curent efforts to make the public more aware of Karma.

C) The hashrate has a lot do do with the price of a coin. In the case of Karma (and a lot of other coins), the bigger the hashrate of the network, the less Karma each miner with the same hashrate will get, given that the block award (the quantity of Karma one receives for solving a block) remains constant (and it does, as changes in block rewards do not occur often).

[compumine]

I do have one concern though,

Hash rate goes up, difficulty goes up, less coins to mine.  When the value of the coins mined over 24h result in less value of mining LTC straight, then it makes no sense to mine Karma.  For a miner like me, it's attractive to mine a coin that maintains high value vs LTC.

So the questions becomes, where can we find a sweet spot where amount mined over 24h still makes more vs LTC

[ptman]

I do have one concern though,

Hash rate goes up, difficulty goes up, less coins to mine.  When the value of the coins mined over 24h result in less value of mining LTC straight, then it makes no sense to mine Karma.  For a miner like me, it's attractive to mine a coin that maintains high value vs LTC.

So the questions becomes, where can we find a sweet spot where amount mined over 24h still makes more vs LTC

The advantage that you have when mining Karma over LTC, is that you have a MUCH higher probability that Karm price will increase a lot in future.

[rbauer85]

The price is high compared to:

A) The way it's been flowing

B) The lack of new/exciting information (if a new project had been announced or something was released Live, like Lill.com, it'd be different)

C) What does hash rate have to do with the value of a coin? Litecoin is going up in hash rate but its value is going down

It's about economics, and there's no reason for this push upward at this point. Do I have doubts the coin will eventually be worth a lot? No. But this push is separate from that.

A) The way it has been flowing in the past few weeks does not represent the way it will flow. The fact most people did not recognized the real value of Karma (and the people behind it), does not mean they will not recognize in future.

B) There is new exciting information comming out if you look out. New beta of LILL.com with major new features will be out in a few days. Every time a new beta is lanched a lot of previously not convinced investor will convert to Karma.
Also, there are curent efforts to make the public more aware of Karma.

C) The hashrate has a lot do do with the price of a coin. In the case of Karma (and a lot of other coins), the bigger the hashrate of the network, the less Karma each miner with the same hashrate will get, given that the block award (the quantity of Karma one receives for solving a block) remains constant (and it does, as changes in block rewards do not occur often).

C) You are completely incorrect. Higher hash rates only result in response to higher values. Higher value means more miners come and will mine and dump, meaning LESS coins get into the hands of those who would hold the coin more. Everyone who talks about this fundamentally misunderstands the situation. I don't mine coins I want to keep, I mine coins that are profitable to dump, and trade for and buy coins I want to hold. Miners dump.

Higher hash rate does not lead to higher value, but higher value does lead to higher hash rate.

[compumine]

I do have one concern though,

Hash rate goes up, difficulty goes up, less coins to mine.  When the value of the coins mined over 24h result in less value of mining LTC straight, then it makes no sense to mine Karma.  For a miner like me, it's attractive to mine a coin that maintains high value vs LTC.

So the questions becomes, where can we find a sweet spot where amount mined over 24h still makes more vs LTC

The advantage that you have when mining Karma over LTC, is that you have a MUCH higher probability that Karm price will increase a lot in future.

And it has.  I started when karma was below 40.  Now its above 80.  However, that could be true also for LTC.  When I started mining, LTC was above $20.  Now it's just around $10.  The future may be bright for LTC to go up and beyond the $40 mark.  But since mining karma makes me accumulate more LTC/24h is the reason why I mine it.  When that stops, it makes me look for other coins that have the potential to spike in value and easy to mine.

[ranlo]

I do have one concern though,

Hash rate goes up, difficulty goes up, less coins to mine.  When the value of the coins mined over 24h result in less value of mining LTC straight, then it makes no sense to mine Karma.  For a miner like me, it's attractive to mine a coin that maintains high value vs LTC.

So the questions becomes, where can we find a sweet spot where amount mined over 24h still makes more vs LTC

The advantage that you have when mining Karma over LTC, is that you have a MUCH higher probability that Karm price will increase a lot in future.

The issue is you can mine the most profitable coin and then convert it into Karma (and effectively mine MORE Karma). So that theory doesn't really hold up.

[compumine]

I do have one concern though,

Hash rate goes up, difficulty goes up, less coins to mine.  When the value of the coins mined over 24h result in less value of mining LTC straight, then it makes no sense to mine Karma.  For a miner like me, it's attractive to mine a coin that maintains high value vs LTC.

So the questions becomes, where can we find a sweet spot where amount mined over 24h still makes more vs LTC

The advantage that you have when mining Karma over LTC, is that you have a MUCH higher probability that Karm price will increase a lot in future.

The issue is you can mine the most profitable coin and then convert it into Karma (and effectively mine MORE Karma). So that theory doesn't really hold up.

To be realistic, I think karma has a way to go before miners start to mine coins and convert to it!!  There are barely any p2pools out there.  One single HUGE pool that works and everyone mines on it.  LTC is been there longer than karma and still it has it's own struggles.  I think karma should look at Doge as an example and aim for better.  Doge has been very successful this far.  It has a $ value.  Traded in almost all exchanges. And holds it's value well.  Mined by small miners and huge pools.

[Alphi]

How much do you understand about cryptocurrencies?

Even if you look at the net hash rate increse alone you will understand that the price of 90-100 litoshi represents an healthy increased considering the doubling of the hashrate.

If you look also at all the work that the dev team and comunity has been doing then you will consider Karma EXTREMELY CHEAP right now

how much do you really understand? the price doesn't follow the hash rate.. its the other way around...
prices go up thus making it more profitable to mine so miners come flooding in and the hash rate goes up.  
if the coin is no longer profitable the the miners will start leaving. When the miners leave speculators start panicking and try to manipulate the people who have control over the coin into taking drastic action to make the price go back up again...

miners do not drive the price of coins any more than miners in the real world drive the price of commodities.
they are and always have been literally at the bottom of the food chain.

prices are driven by speculators.. and the miners just follow the trail of breadcrumbs.

the fact that some miners are also speculators seems to have confused some peoples understanding of how things actually work.

I am both a miner and a speculator and I can guarantee you that I have made more money from speculating than I ever have from mining. but not everyone has the time to research all the different technologies and carefully weigh each coin against the others and so they just buy some mining gear and run with it...

[ptman]

How much do you understand about cryptocurrencies?

Even if you look at the net hash rate increse alone you will understand that the price of 90-100 litoshi represents an healthy increased considering the doubling of the hashrate.

If you look also at all the work that the dev team and comunity has been doing then you will consider Karma EXTREMELY CHEAP right now

how much do you really understand? the price doesn't follow the hash rate.. its the other way around...
prices go up thus making it more profitable to mine so miners come flooding in and the hash rate goes up.  
if the coin is no longer profitable the the miners will start leaving. When the miners leave speculators start panicking and try to manipulate the people who have control over the coin into taking drastic action to make the price go back up again...

miners do not drive the price of coins any more than miners in the real world drive the price of commodities.
they are and always have been literally at the bottom of the food chain.

prices are driven by speculators.. and the miners just follow the trail of breadcrumbs.

the fact that some miners are also speculators seems to have confused some peoples understanding of how things actually work.

It goes both ways.
Hahrate increate tends to make the price go up.
Price goes up a lot, causes more miner to mine the coin, makes the price go up again.

You can not compare "real" miners that are mining gold or silver with cryptocurrency miners.
You just can not.

When you are talking about a particular coin, an increase in hashrate makes mining that particular coin more difficult, thus you (the miner) do not want to sell at a loss, so you (and other miners) tend to sell it a bit higher.
Of couse you can just stop mining that coin, and run away to go mine other coin, so you are in a way creating the devaluation of that coin by yourself (like in a self fullfilling profecy).
But I do not really believe that it is the behaviour of most miners.
They do not have the time nor the will to be constantly checking which coin is most profittable (at the time), and mine it for a couple of hours, just to change again to other coin.
Not when they know that they can select or two coin that they believe in, and mine it today, knowing that they will worth at least 10 (or 100? or 1000?) times in future.
That is what I do and what other people I know do.

If you have 10 guys digging a hole in the ground to search for gold. And you and other friends dig other hole 1 KM away from the first hole, does it make it more difficult for the first 10 miners to find gold in their place?
No, it does not...

[Alphi]

It goes both ways.
Hahrate increate tends to make the price go up.
Price goes up a lot, causes more miner to mine the coin, makes the price go up again.

only when the coin has the first mover advantage and there are no other realistic competitors, like in the case of Bitcoin and SHA256

for example.. if you buy a SHA256 ASIC.. you don't have any  other real choice than to mine Bitcoin so its hash rate is constantly forced up. Miners are forced to keep on mining and hoping they will get a ROI so many hold onto the coins they mine.

this is not the case with Scrypt coins however because there is ALWAYS a more profitable SCRYPT coin mine so the hash rates go up and down like crazy as each coin raises and falls in value.
we saw this when Dogecoin overtook litecoin in Hash rate.. then the Aurora boom... in such cases Hash rate alone is no indication at all that the price will remain high because there is Nothing at all preventing the miners from get a better ROI elsewhere.

[compumine]

It goes both ways.
Hahrate increate tends to make the price go up.
Price goes up a lot, causes more miner to mine the coin, makes the price go up again.

only when the coin has the first mover advantage and there are no other realistic competitors, like in the case of Bitcoin and SHA256

for example.. if you buy a SHA256 ASIC.. you don't have any  other real choice than to mine Bitcoin so its hash rate is constantly forced up. Miners are forced to keep on mining and hoping they will get a ROI so many hold onto the coins they mine.

this is not the case with Scrypt coins however because there is ALWAYS a more profitable SCRYPT coin mine so the hash rates go up and down like crazy as each coin raises and falls in value.
we saw this when Dogecoin overtook litecoin in Hash rate.. then the Aurora boom... in such cases Hash rate alone is no indication at all that the price will remain high.

That is TRUE.

I mine bitcoins and I hold on to them simply for ROI reasons.  But when I mine scrypt, I mine the most profitable coin vs either LTC or BTC.  So when karma difficulty goes up to the point where it's not making me more than mining LTC, I move on to next coin.  Back when the difficulty comes down.

[ranlo]

It goes both ways.
Hahrate increate tends to make the price go up.
Price goes up a lot, causes more miner to mine the coin, makes the price go up again.

only when the coin has the first mover advantage and there are no other realistic competitors, like in the case of Bitcoin and SHA256

for example.. if you buy a SHA256 ASIC.. you don't have any  other real choice than to mine Bitcoin so its hash rate is constantly forced up. Miners are forced to keep on mining and hoping they will get a ROI so many hold onto the coins they mine.

this is not the case with Scrypt coins however because there is ALWAYS a more profitable SCRYPT coin mine so the hash rates go up and down like crazy as each coin raises and falls in value.
we saw this when Dogecoin overtook litecoin in Hash rate.. then the Aurora boom... in such cases Hash rate alone is no indication at all that the price will remain high because there is Nothing at all preventing the miners to get a better ROI elsewhere.

I don't believe that there is any correlation between hash rates and prices (excluding the multipools jumping on coins, which is irrelevant for the discussion). Prices are created by the market, not magically by nature of increased hash rates. As more money comes in, prices go up. As more money leaves, prices go down. It's pretty simple.

[easteagle13]

And remember that out there Warren Buffet is the richest S of B among all of the financial bastards for one simple reason.

the same Warrent buffet that calls bitcoin a mirage and doesn't invest in crypto currency at all?
I hardly think he is a good example of why people should invest in a crypto currency based company.

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/why-buffett-doesnt-invest-in-technology-2014-3

maybe you should use Bill Gates as an example... the richest man in the world for a long time and someone who made his money by driving change in the technology world and who thinks digital currencies "could be huge"... yes I know everyone hates microsoft but nobody can argue with the wealth it has made for its early investors.. and yes I know bill seemed like a greedy controlling SOB for most of his life but he has since pledged almost his entire fortune to charity so he would be the biggest example of a guy who lives and breathes the idea of Karma i.e. doing good in this life so that you are rewarded in the next life..

Buffet and his fellow Charlie Munger does not invest in businesses they don`t understand. For him to invest in IBM 10 Billion dollars, took 50 years. Yes, fifty. He wants to understand the business first, not to speculate. No one can compete with Buffet. No one. I gave him as example of good investor, not in the context of crypto. As for the Microsoft. Only stupid people hate them. This guy, Bill Gates, made possible for almost everyone to have PC. I come from very poor country that you never heard of, but I had my PC on 15 and I knew what to do with it. Bill Gates is the reason for this. The road is not save, yes, the climbing for M$ was difficult, yes, they make mistakes and yes, they will continue to make them. But whose success was easy? The KARMA success won`t be either. No matter what though, remember that every person is as big as his dreams. So, all of you stop to play low ball and start thinking big.

+1 to both of you guys good points! We can emulate the good points of these men.