[ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11

[Triffin]

Lowering total number of coins is much better

I agree, but we tried that already ..

When we reintroduced the KARM/BTC trading pair it
became apparent that we were going to get stuck in
the 2-3-4 satoshi range  ( ie the minimum 'tick' in satoshi
represents a huge percentage return ) ..
Who wouldn't buy @ 2sat  and offer @ 3sat to make 50% returns ??
Kosmost saw the problem right away and suggested we reverse split the
coin to accomplish two things .. lower the total number of KARM to a
more reasonable level and get away from single digit satoshi pricing ..
The community was polled and it was decided not to pursue that change ..

Triff ..

[bitwho]

Lowering total number of coins is much better

I agree, but we tried that already ..

When we reintroduced the KARM/BTC trading pair it
became apparent that we were going to get stuck in
the 2-3-4 satoshi range  ( ie the minimum 'tick' in satoshi
represents a huge percentage return ) ..
Who wouldn't buy @ 2sat  and offer @ 3sat to make 50% returns ??
Kosmost saw the problem right away and suggested we reverse split the
coin to accomplish two things .. lower the total number of KARM to a
more reasonable level and get away from single digit satoshi pricing ..
The community was polled and it was decided not to pursue that change ..

Triff ..

Maybe proof of burn would be accepted this time??

Should we look into it?

[Triffin]

Lowering total number of coins is much better

I agree, but we tried that already ..

When we reintroduced the KARM/BTC trading pair it
became apparent that we were going to get stuck in
the 2-3-4 satoshi range  ( ie the minimum 'tick' in satoshi
represents a huge percentage return ) ..
Who wouldn't buy @ 2sat  and offer @ 3sat to make 50% returns ??
Kosmost saw the problem right away and suggested we reverse split the
coin to accomplish two things .. lower the total number of KARM to a
more reasonable level and get away from single digit satoshi pricing ..
The community was polled and it was decided not to pursue that change ..

Triff ..

Maybe proof of burn would be accepted this time??

Should we look into it?

Well, if by 'proof of burn' you mean to use that as a way to reduce coin count ??
I think we have nearly 9 billion KARM in the LLC currently  ..
It's the only 'funding' mechanism we have for the IPOCOs other
than kosmost spending his own money and KARM holder's periodic donations ..
@ 2-3 satoshi I grant that we don't have much of a development budget in $$$ terms ..
The thinking was that when the crypto community discovered KARM and the potential
value of the LLC that KARM would begin to rise in price to the point where the
'donated' shares would have sufficient 'value' to self-fund the IPOCOs ..
At least that's my interpretation of the KARM/Karmashares LLC game plan ..
Plans and reality have a tendency to diverge as we know ..

Triff ..

[bitwho]

Lowering total number of coins is much better

I agree, but we tried that already ..

When we reintroduced the KARM/BTC trading pair it
became apparent that we were going to get stuck in
the 2-3-4 satoshi range  ( ie the minimum 'tick' in satoshi
represents a huge percentage return ) ..
Who wouldn't buy @ 2sat  and offer @ 3sat to make 50% returns ??
Kosmost saw the problem right away and suggested we reverse split the
coin to accomplish two things .. lower the total number of KARM to a
more reasonable level and get away from single digit satoshi pricing ..
The community was polled and it was decided not to pursue that change ..

Triff ..

Maybe proof of burn would be accepted this time??

Should we look into it?

Well, if by 'proof of burn' you mean to use that as a way to reduce coin count ??
I think we have nearly 9 billion KARM in the LLC currently  ..
It's the only 'funding' mechanism we have for the IPOCOs other
than kosmost spending his own money and KARM holder's periodic donations ..
@ 2-3 satoshi I grant that we don't have much of a development budget in $$$ terms ..
The thinking was that when the crypto community discovered KARM and the potential
value of the LLC that KARM would begin to rise in price to the point where the
'donated' shares would have sufficient 'value' to self-fund the IPOCOs ..
At least that's my interpretation of the KARM/Karmashares LLC game plan ..
Plans and reality have a tendency to diverge as we know ..

Triff ..

No no.. LLC coins are there to stay.

What if we offer two ways to invest now.

One : the regular way as it is now.

two : the proof of burn : where investors get x10 points or something when he invest by sending the coins to an address that is not accessible ??

[UrsaMajorisBeta]

I was thinking about the sidechain for a while now...
It would be interesting to list Karmashares IPOCOS in some kind of system similar to Nxt or Bts.
Maybe proof of burn with a limited time frame will do the trick!
Or merge mining, crediting the already owners of karma with a fixed amount.

proof of burn would reduce the problem of too many coins in circulation.
so I am all for it.

ok whats proof of burn?

Correct me if i'm wrong about this ..

But I think that mechanism already exists in the current structure ..
You buy KARM and deposit them ( if you want ) to the Karmashares LLC deposit address ..
That gives you participation in  Karmashares  LLC the vehicle for all the IPO COs ..
The 'donated' KARM are effectively 'off the market' ..
Alternatively, one can buy KARM, keep them in your wallet and get credit for
Kamashares LLC at a lower ratio than you would get vs the 'deposit' method above ..
ie 5,000,000 KARM @ 1.75X ( donate ) vs 5,000,0000 KARM ( in wallet ) @ 1.00X ..

Just an FYI, but early Karmashares LLC adopters were offerd 5X and 10X participation deals  ..

Triff ..

Thanks for the info! Now it´s very clear to me. I was just wondering about the sidechain and the features it would bring to karma. I figured some investors would rather invest not in KarmasharesLLC directly, but in a specific product, like Lill or EyeQoo.

[pugwilfy]

Lowering total number of coins is much better

I agree, but we tried that already ..

When we reintroduced the KARM/BTC trading pair it
became apparent that we were going to get stuck in
the 2-3-4 satoshi range  ( ie the minimum 'tick' in satoshi
represents a huge percentage return ) ..
Who wouldn't buy @ 2sat  and offer @ 3sat to make 50% returns ??
Kosmost saw the problem right away and suggested we reverse split the
coin to accomplish two things .. lower the total number of KARM to a
more reasonable level and get away from single digit satoshi pricing ..
The community was polled and it was decided not to pursue that change ..

Triff ..

Maybe proof of burn would be accepted this time??

Should we look into it?

Well, if by 'proof of burn' you mean to use that as a way to reduce coin count ??
I think we have nearly 9 billion KARM in the LLC currently  ..
It's the only 'funding' mechanism we have for the IPOCOs other
than kosmost spending his own money and KARM holder's periodic donations ..
@ 2-3 satoshi I grant that we don't have much of a development budget in $$$ terms ..
The thinking was that when the crypto community discovered KARM and the potential
value of the LLC that KARM would begin to rise in price to the point where the
'donated' shares would have sufficient 'value' to self-fund the IPOCOs ..
At least that's my interpretation of the KARM/Karmashares LLC game plan ..
Plans and reality have a tendency to diverge as we know ..

Triff ..

i dont think you are going to see any kind of big hike in price due to karmashares news until people get to see what potential profit is available from this scheme..

also on a side note people are wondering why the price isnt going up, for that to happen there needs to be a demand for karma the only reason people would buy karma right now is to put in to shares or to save to one side knowing/hoping in future they will be worth more..

we have fallen off a lot of radars, i was surprised to see we are not on one of the popular multi switching pools, i asked the question before if being on a pool that only mined us when profitable would be a good or bad thing?

and one last note, while it became hard for me to mine karma due to asics while karma was scrypt i looked for other places to point my card(i have my karma saved to one side) and while doing so i watched a lot of scam coin launch and eventually turn in to a scam which got me thinking are people losing faith in alt coins which might explain why there is such a lack of interest.

we the karma community (most of us) know this is not a scam coin hence why we are still here and still holding coins but i think our biggest hurdle is advertising karma and proving it is not a scam coin, which bring me back to the point about karmashares, i think people will see how well the share scheme is paying out and want to buy karma and join in

[bitwho]

i have 1 000 000 000 KARMA

You should use some of those coins to do us good :/

you can easily ask people to vote , upvote , share , tweet and what not for like 1000 karma.

[Alphi]

this is partly true, those KARM will hit market. KarmaShares own them and will sell them sooner or later. So they are not burned. Proof of Burn is awesome way how to make coin more valuable. Problem is, that is that it just sucks liquidity from the market. Since total coin market cap is still same, new investors will not be attracted anyway. Lowering total number of coins is much better.

I would tend to agree however.. if you lower the total number of coins all you are doing is reducing the security of the network over time.
this is why the coin supply can't be lowered too much.

by burning the coins, however you do it.. you are ensuring that some coins at least are being taken out of circulation permanently.. just as bank notes and coins might wear out or be lost over time.

the more coins you burn the more new ones you can create without upsetting that delicate balance of security vs oversupply.

proof of burn is more about showing the developers/early adopters commitment to the cause and to fair initial distribution than it is about increasing the value of the coins that remain. This helps to reduce the pump and dump phenomena because by burning the coins the devs are making real sacrifices to initiate the new project.

[karmala]

Hello stranger, we need devs, c++, web developer, app devs! Join us if you can code and want to be part of the Karma family!

KarmaTeam

[karmala]

There is also chargins idea to sell and buy Karma only in lots of 1000s on the exchanges....

[UrsaMajorisBeta]

Mining contest is going well. Now is time for the creative persons of our community to step up. Karma team members can also participate.
Today I am starting contest with a first place award of 2 000 000 (TWO MILLION) KARMA. No consolation awards. The rules are as follows:
1. At least 5 participants
2. Every participant can provide more than 1 photo. No limit about this.
3. Photos must contain KARMA logo and GOT KARMA? written or drawn by hand (Not printed). So only the GOT KARMA? must be written or drawn by a hand, which includes graphite drawing. I don`t care about the logo if it is printed or drawn by a hand, but it must be our original logo.
4. Photos can be for example selfie with a popular person and you wearing t-shirt with KARMA logo and GOT KARMA?, photo on the top of a skyscraper holding KARMA logo and GOT KARMA?, photo of somebody jumping with parachute holding KARMA logo and GOT KARMA?, nice graphite drawing of our logo and GOT KARMA? and all other things that crosses your mind.
5. The last day of this campaign is 1-st of September. No photos will be accepted on 2-nd of September. (exceptions for delayed photos only if I see on the photo Barack Obama or Queen Elizabeth  )
6. You can post your pictures here, forum, facebook and karmashare.me. You must pm me here with a link to the original post.
7. The winner will be chosen by community vote in our forum. Voting will continue 3 days, but I want at least 25 votes. If we don`t have 25 votes, we shall extend the voting period. If there is a tie between two or more photos and/or persons, I suggest our respectful Marketing & PR workgroup moderators easteagle13 and jasondecosta to choose the winning photo. If jasondecosta decide to participate, me and easteagle13 will have the last word.

These are the rules. Do not cheat! I will catch you. Believe me. Do not use any tools to make your photos look better. If I catch someone cheating, all of his/her photos will be disqualified. This is a real life contest. I am not encouraging you to do something dangerous or stupid, but to win this, it is obvious that you have to be a little crazy. So happy shooting.

GOT KARMA?

One month timeframe! I will participate for sure

[Triffin]

There is also chargins idea to sell and buy Karma only in lots of 1000s on the exchanges....

Way too confusing and no need ..

Either reverse split KARM to reduce the coin count and get away from the
single digit KARM/BTC trading pair ( technical considerations aside atm )

OR

Get the one exchange that lists it to drop the KARM/BTC trading pair ..
KARM/LTC on Cryptsy has plenty of volume and works fine ( for example )

I don't want to continue to distract the community on this issue so
I'm not going to say anymore about it  ..

We've got alot on our KARM plate at the moment ..

1) Hard fork and new algo
2) New side chain
3) Potential sale of all or part of Lill.com
4) Potential to fund other IPOCOs or pay Karmashares LLC holders a dividend from Lill.com proceeds  

Things are looking promising in KARMaLand  

Triff ..

[socoban]

There is also chargins idea to sell and buy Karma only in lots of 1000s on the exchanges....

Way too confusing and no need ..

Either reverse split KARM to reduce the coin count and get away from the
single digit KARM/BTC trading pair ( technical considerations aside atm )

OR

Get the one exchange that lists it to drop the KARM/BTC trading pair ..
KARM/LTC on Cryptsy has plenty of volume and works fine ( for example )

I don't want to continue to distract the community on this issue so
I'm not going to say anymore about it  ..

We've got alot on our KARM plate at the moment ..

1) Hard fork and new algo
2) New side chain
3) Potential sale of all or part of Lill.com
4) Potential to fund other IPOCOs or pay Karmashares LLC holders a dividend from Lill.com proceeds  

Things are looking promising in KARMaLand  

Triff ..

Karma was losing price due to scrypt asic miners. Now it stopped. Sell pressure will be much much lower. New people are talking more and more about Karma. Let's wait few days. Karm doubled last 2 days, so the dump to 250-300 litoshi is nothing more than correction & profit taking. When this stops, new people will buy and drive the price up. Karma will be at 10+ satoshi soon, no doubt about it. People are sick about scam coins, KARM is not scam. It takes time to prove it.

[Alphi]

Lowering total number of coins is much better

I agree, but we tried that already ..

When we reintroduced the KARM/BTC trading pair it
became apparent that we were going to get stuck in
the 2-3-4 satoshi range  ( ie the minimum 'tick' in satoshi
represents a huge percentage return ) ..
Who wouldn't buy @ 2sat  and offer @ 3sat to make 50% returns ??
Kosmost saw the problem right away and suggested we reverse split the
coin to accomplish two things .. lower the total number of KARM to a
more reasonable level and get away from single digit satoshi pricing ..
The community was polled and it was decided not to pursue that change ..

Triff ..

this is because a reverse split has been shown not to work just look at Sat2
following a bad idea with another bad idea wont make things better.

fundamentally the core problem with any Altcoin or any other market for that matter is Supply v Demand.

Revers splitting does not address the issue of over Supply.. it only masks it.. and the risk is that by tampering too much with a coin you can reduce its demand. (some clear examples... VRC, SAT2, DRK etc etc)

likewise pricing Karm in lots of 1000 is likely to have no lasting effect on supply or demand.

the switch to X11 and updating the wallet, even though it does not affect supply, seems to have a short term positive effect on demand. This means that even people like me who do not agree with how the decision was made, can't really complain.

proof of burn has a direct effect on Supply but in order for it to be effective you would have to offer investors something that has more potential (and more risk) than Karma itself.

now some people would argue that PoS would be better than the existing Karm pow System.. and if they are willing to put their Karm on the line for that belief then nothing should stop them.
just as long as they don't put my Karm on the line for their belief if I don't agree with them.
Proof of burn is one way (but not the only way) that people who believe in these new projects can clearly demonstrate their support and commitment.

all of these new projects are fine as long as they don't destroy the value of the coins owned by the people who do not agree with them.

so far the Karmashares team has stuck to this principle and so they should be commended for taking a cautious approach to implementing new ideas.

I must be the only person who isn't complaining about the price of Karm but right now I think its pretty good... I remember being one of the few people willing to buy this coin back when it was 35 litoshi and look where we are now...

[Alphi]

Karma was losing price due to scrypt asic miners. Now it stopped. Sell pressure will be much much lower. New people are talking more and more about Karma. Let's wait few days. Karm doubled last 2 days, so the dump to 250-300 litoshi is nothing more than correction & profit taking. When this stops, new people will buy and drive the price up. Karma will be at 10+ satoshi soon, no doubt about it. People are sick about scam coins, KARM is not scam. It takes time to prove it.

I don't know about the dumping stopping.. people will mine and dump as long as they have electricity bills.

but at least 11X has a few advantages..

1) there are less X11 multipools out there so an X11 coin has less chance of being raided and dumped by a multipool
2) it consumes about half as much power to mine.. so GPU miners can hold onto the coins for longer before they need to sell and pay bills.


more important than the change to X11 is the fact that the devs and community are still actively behind the coin.. and things are getting done.
so many coins have broken down because of disagreements between major stake holders or devs moving on to other projects.

if Karma succeeds, and there is every chance that it will... it will be because of the strength of its community and leadership team.
I have always believed that community is what gives any coin its value.. I have always been here.. and so have many others.

[karmala]

Lowering total number of coins is much better

I agree, but we tried that already ..

When we reintroduced the KARM/BTC trading pair it
became apparent that we were going to get stuck in
the 2-3-4 satoshi range  ( ie the minimum 'tick' in satoshi
represents a huge percentage return ) ..
Who wouldn't buy @ 2sat  and offer @ 3sat to make 50% returns ??
Kosmost saw the problem right away and suggested we reverse split the
coin to accomplish two things .. lower the total number of KARM to a
more reasonable level and get away from single digit satoshi pricing ..
The community was polled and it was decided not to pursue that change ..

Triff ..

this is because a reverse split has been shown not to work just look at Sat2
following a bad idea with another bad idea wont make things better.

fundamentally the core problem with any Altcoin or any other market for that matter is Supply v Demand.

Revers splitting does not address the issue of over Supply.. it only masks it.. and the risk is that by tampering too much with a coin you can reduce its demand. (some clear examples... VRC, SAT2, DRK etc etc)

likewise pricing Karm in lots of 1000 is likely to have no lasting effect on supply or demand.

the switch to X11 and updating the wallet, even though it does not affect supply, seems to have a short term positive effect on demand. This means that even people like me who do not agree with how the decision was made, can't really complain.

proof of burn has a direct effect on Supply but in order for it to be effective you would have to offer investors something that has more potential (and more risk) than Karma itself.

now some people would argue that PoS would be better than the existing Karm pow System.. and if they are willing to put their Karm on the line for that belief then nothing should stop them.
just as long as they don't put my Karm on the line for their belief if I don't agree with them.
Proof of burn is one way (but not the only way) that people who believe in these new projects can clearly demonstrate their support and commitment.

all of these new projects are fine as long as they don't destroy the value of the coins owned by the people who do not agree with them.

so far the Karmashares team has stuck to this principle and so they should be commended for taking a cautious approach to implementing new ideas.

I must be the only person who isn't complaining about the price of Karm but right now I think its pretty good... I remember being one of the few people willing to buy this coin back when it was 35 litoshi and look where we are now...

I find your arguments quite convincing. Also bought at at 32. Not long ago. The best thing with the new algo is the protection from attacks which was the original reason to change the algo. We had no agenda to stop asics. Now, we have a really good clean code with no vulnarabilities of the KGW. This will pay out. Moreover, I aggree with statement that those who are led down by scamcoins will see the good in Karma and that will take time. They have to read through all our history before they know that we are good. And please, remove all your sell orders from 50 satoshis onwards. You can still put them in again when the time has come.

[bitwho]

Lowering total number of coins is much better

I agree, but we tried that already ..

When we reintroduced the KARM/BTC trading pair it
became apparent that we were going to get stuck in
the 2-3-4 satoshi range  ( ie the minimum 'tick' in satoshi
represents a huge percentage return ) ..
Who wouldn't buy @ 2sat  and offer @ 3sat to make 50% returns ??
Kosmost saw the problem right away and suggested we reverse split the
coin to accomplish two things .. lower the total number of KARM to a
more reasonable level and get away from single digit satoshi pricing ..
The community was polled and it was decided not to pursue that change ..

Triff ..

this is because a reverse split has been shown not to work just look at Sat2
following a bad idea with another bad idea wont make things better.

fundamentally the core problem with any Altcoin or any other market for that matter is Supply v Demand.

Revers splitting does not address the issue of over Supply.. it only masks it.. and the risk is that by tampering too much with a coin you can reduce its demand. (some clear examples... VRC, SAT2, DRK etc etc)

likewise pricing Karm in lots of 1000 is likely to have no lasting effect on supply or demand.

the switch to X11 and updating the wallet, even though it does not affect supply, seems to have a short term positive effect on demand. This means that even people like me who do not agree with how the decision was made, can't really complain.

proof of burn has a direct effect on Supply but in order for it to be effective you would have to offer investors something that has more potential (and more risk) than Karma itself.

now some people would argue that PoS would be better than the existing Karm pow System.. and if they are willing to put their Karm on the line for that belief then nothing should stop them.
just as long as they don't put my Karm on the line for their belief if I don't agree with them.
Proof of burn is one way (but not the only way) that people who believe in these new projects can clearly demonstrate their support and commitment.

all of these new projects are fine as long as they don't destroy the value of the coins owned by the people who do not agree with them.

so far the Karmashares team has stuck to this principle and so they should be commended for taking a cautious approach to implementing new ideas.

I must be the only person who isn't complaining about the price of Karm but right now I think its pretty good... I remember being one of the few people willing to buy this coin back when it was 35 litoshi and look where we are now...

alphi.. you know i like you and all.. but do not compare karma with sat2 man.  


as i mention before, but seems to have gone unseen. the answer to the mass coin solution is there. we just have to think outside the box.

perhaps a merged mining that would be equivalent to 1000 karma.

or as i mention before:POBi Proof of burn investing.  invest in karma shares at x10 rate by burning your coins.

Perhaps the feature is not yet explored. Few months ago no one thought of sidechaining. maybe few months later a new feature will come out.


Here is my idea:
i for one would love a KarmaCloud. a coin that stores information. p2p chat, file sharing etc

I foresee cloud space will be the future demand. Expensive as land is now. Karmanians could donate cloud space to needed facilities around the world.

We can already see the ISP trying to capitalize in data. Radio /phone calling / txting /  is already dying. Data transferring and the way they get transfer is the future.

it take no genius to understand that remote computers will be the future. no one will own a tower. soon they will only sign up in cloud space and virtually remote a computer to do stuff. this will make tablet to be futuristic. a flat panel with only minimal features like camera , wi-fi (or what ever technology will be in use few yrs form now) where all you do is remote connect to a very powerful computer. Hell i am remote controlling my comp and typing via my iphone as i type this.

Imagine now, karma wallets . connected to 1 millions users. 1 Million nodes. our own "networks towers"

To live up to our end Goals. we could support public facilites around the world by donating them space and cpu usage. all they will need is tablets and our network and they can access all the school info and the internet to search for material


We already have know the race to monopolize data has began. Just like fiat, we can avoid a lot of middle man benefiting by data usage

[youseeberkeley]

Ooh a secondary coin that is merge-mined with Karma would be nice haha.

I remember buying at 40 litoshi and thinking,"This coin is definitely going places."

Too bad my 80MH in asics can't mine karma anymore, but I'll be multipooling and buying in everyday!

[compumine]

is xhash.net pool on the correct fork.

its showing difficulty of 52!

[karmala]

is xhash.net pool on the correct fork.

its showing difficulty of 52!

well peak was 67 http://www.coinwarz.com/cryptocurrency/coins/karma

right fork indeed