[ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11

[b1bl3.com]

Better to wait 1 Sept and see the announcement ,then we can talk ... there are around 2 days before ...

Then be prepared for the possibility of paying much more for your shares ;-)

Easteagle and other wrote to make your decision,they explained everything,the rest is on the websites that easteagle wrote it ... what you want more.
Make your own decision.Is simple.

All of us are waiting for the news why some of you need to be different ?

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[ptman]

Better to wait 1 Sept and see the announcement ,then we can talk ... there are around 2 days before ...

Then be prepared for the possibility of paying much more for your shares ;-)

Easteagle and other wrote to make your decision,they explained everything,the rest is on the websites that easteagle wrote it ... what you want more.
Make your own decision.Is simple.

All of us are waiting for the news why some of you need to be different ?

Yes. Everything you said is right.
I just said that it may not be a good decision to wait before the news to buy shares (or by other words... that maybe it is better to buy before the news), because the price of Karma may go dramatically up after the news... if they are good of course

[Alphi]

Better to wait 1 Sept and see the announcement ,then we can talk ... there are around 2 days before ...

Then be prepared for the possibility of paying much more for your shares ;-)

Easteagle and other wrote to make your decision,they explained everything,the rest is on the websites that easteagle wrote it ... what you want more.
Make your own decision.Is simple.

All of us are waiting for the news why some of you need to be different ?

Yes. Everything you said is right.
I just said that it may not be a good decision to wait before the news to buy shares (or by other words... that maybe it is better to buy before the news), because the price of Karma may go dramatically up after the news... if they are good of course

yes, also when a dividend is announced.. the dividend is usually payable to people who were holding "shares" before the announcement date.. this is why people are trying to figure out where they stand before any announcement.

I think it would be silly to not clarify the issue of who owns what before announcing any kind of dividend.

that being said.. we do not know if the announcement on monday will have anything to do with a dividend or even confirm a sale of assets.

usually when there is a sale of assets the buyer has 30 days to pay. so that may give Karmashares people the time they need to decide who is a member and how to pay out any moneys.

but all this is just speculation on my part.
at this point I do not know if the offer to buy lil.com was genuine.
please everyone don't get too greedy and please trade and/or comment with caution.
remember nothing is guaranteed until a deal is signed and the money delivered.

it is very difficult to tell the difference between someone who is unsure of what they are talking about and someone who is spreading FUD to benefit their own position, so please be careful and don't believe everything you see posted in forums.

[Bierworst]

The anouncement will be on monday, this is to make sure people who buy shares after the anouncement dont get dividents of what is coming.
In my eyes, there will be a sale. But who am i, i am a dutch guy with karmacoin acting like i know stuff. So, lets just wait

[Fitamp]

Thinking about setting up a local p2pool node and I need some help :/

[Chargin]

Better to wait 1 Sept and see the announcement ,then we can talk ... there are around 2 days before ...

Then be prepared for the possibility of paying much more for your shares ;-)

Easteagle and other wrote to make your decision,they explained everything,the rest is on the websites that easteagle wrote it ... what you want more.
Make your own decision.Is simple.

All of us are waiting for the news why some of you need to be different ?

Yes. Everything you said is right.
I just said that it may not be a good decision to wait before the news to buy shares (or by other words... that maybe it is better to buy before the news), because the price of Karma may go dramatically up after the news... if they are good of course

yes, also when a dividend is announced.. the dividend is usually payable to people who were holding "shares" before the announcement date.. this is why people are trying to figure out where they stand before any announcement.

I think it would be silly to not clarify the issue of who owns what before announcing any kind of dividend.

that being said.. we do not know if the announcement on monday will have anything to do with a dividend or even confirm a sale of assets.

usually when there is a sale of assets the buyer has 30 days to pay. so that may give Karmashares people the time they need to decide who is a member and how to pay out any moneys.

but all this is just speculation on my part.
at this point I do not know if the offer to buy lil.com was genuine.
please everyone don't get too greedy and please trade and/or comment with caution.
remember nothing is guaranteed until a deal is signed and the money delivered.

it is very difficult to tell the difference between someone who is unsure of what they are talking about and someone who is spreading FUD to benefit their own position, so please be careful and don't believe everything you see posted in forums.

Actually I think for most companies where people are able to buy shares at any time there is a time between the announcement and when new share holders are no longer eligible for the dividend. I think it is unlikely the announcement will be for a dividend anyways because such a large decision really should be taken to the shareholders if it is for more than half of the companies value.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dividend#Dividend_dates

I don't think people with Karma will lose their rights for up to 1x for holding Karma or to convert at 1.75x before a dividend because they have always been advised they have those rights. To take those rights away to further advantage people that made the "correct" decision would not be "more fair". Even people that converted at 1.75x a month ago are not being disadvantaged by allowing Karma holders to convert because they knew at that time that Karma holders could convert in the future. A Company founded with Karma should be held to the highest of ethical standards, or in other words not make decisions that are bad karma.

The Company's stated objective is:

It is currently forming in the state of Wyoming, USA, for purposes of creating long term value for holders of Karma by developing revenue-generating products and services.

Holders of Karma, not Karmashares. While Karmashares is implicit, nobody can say that Karma holders should not be a major consideration in decisions made.

[Alphi]

Actually I think for most companies where people are able to buy shares at any time there is a a time between the announcement and when new share holders are no longer eligible for the dividend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dividend#Dividend_dates

EDIT.. having given it some more thought I decided to reword this post and put it into point form instead of rambling incoherently lolz.


1) it is wrong to assume that the "record date" and "ex-dividend" have to be a dates some time after an announcement.. they can be and often are within days of any special dividend announcement (sometimes even prior to the announcement date)

2) it is unwise to assume that if any such announcement was made that you would have enough grace period to collect shares so that you can become eligible for a dividend and profit from it. this is because typically as soon as announcement of a dividend is made the price corrects very quickly to include that dividend. Since Karmashares have no "price" this price correction will likely be reflected in Karma so unless you are willing to watch your computer screen 24 hours a day you are likely to miss the boat if your intention is to profit from a dividend announcement (which may or may not happen)

3) it would be unwise to announce a special dividend and return the bulk of any moneys from the sale of LIL.COM to Karmashares holders.

       firstly this will create panic buying and an administrative nightmare if people try to dump their Karmashares after the dividend payment is received.
       and secondly because the money would be better spent invested in new projects and growing the company.

4) as I have said many times.. Karmashares is an LLC not a corporation so it is wrong for anyone (including myself) to assume that all the laws and SEC trading rules governing corporations are equally applied to an LLC. In many cases they are, but experience has taught me that when dealing with crypto currency based investments you may not get the outcomes you would expect had you invested in a registered security.

[ranlo]

Actually I think for most companies where people are able to buy shares at any time there is a a time between the announcement and when new share holders are no longer eligible for the dividend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dividend#Dividend_dates

this statement is flat out wrong.. I have been investing for more than a decade so I can speak with some degree of experience having received many dividends both in the US and AUS markets.

please re-read the wiki you posted.

if you buy shares AFTER a special dividend is announced then you are usually not illegible for that dividend. This is because the "Record Date" is typically the same date as the announcement (or within a few days, usually prior).  it is extremely rare for example for a company to announce a special dividend and then say "oh but the record date is in one months time".
Note that this kind of practices is done typically to stop people rushing to buy shares only to collect a dividend and then dumping immediately afterwards.

Sure you can be eligible for future dividend if they are announced at a later date but you are only guaranteed to get a dividend if you are a shareholder before each announcement.
I want to make it very clear that I am talking about Special dividends here (ie dividends which are declared after a particular event) rather than recurring/regular dividends that a company may choose to issue on a quarterly or yearly basis.

Since Karmashares LLC has no history of issuing regular dividends it is a given that any dividend announcement is likely to be a special dividend.. (i.e. a one off or series of one offs.)

as quoted by the wiki.

Declaration date is the day the Board of Directors announces its intention to pay a dividend. On this day, a liability is created and the company records that liability on its books; it now owes the money to the stockholders. On the declaration date, the Board will also announce a date of record and a payment date.

Ex-dividend date (typically 2 trading days before the record date for U.S. securities) is the day on which all shares bought and sold no longer come attached with the right to be paid the most recently declared dividend.

Record date Shareholders registered in the stockholders of record on or before the date of record will receive the dividend. Shareholders who are not registered as of this date will not receive the dividend. Registration in most countries is essentially automatic for shares purchased before the ex-dividend date.

In any case whether or not the record date is set after the announcement date for any dividend, as soon as the announcement is made the price or Karma will correct upwards to "price in" any dividend payment.

this will make it more expensive for people to "buy in" and profit from any payouts.

it will also make it harder for Karmashares LLC if people start dumping after a dividend because there is no way to exit karmashares other than to ask Kosmost for a refund.
which could turn out to be an administrative nightmare.

that's not to say that there isn't an administrative nightmare already brewing.... just saying that the best way to deal with the issue of any windfall is to keep most of the money for development and give regular but small dividends back to the karmashares holders.

just my opinion of course but I don't see how announcing a dividend and then allowing a grace period so that hoards of people can "buy in" with hopes of participating in the payout is going to help Karma or Karmashares LLC in the long run.

no doubt the volatility will help traders like me though.. so feel free to ignore everything I just said lolz.

Then what happens with people who have tens of millions of coins and still can't figure out how to get their payment information recorded (BTC address)? Now you're "a shareholder" but you're also not, being that your information still isn't on the record.

It's important things like this that we need to get locked down ASAP to ensure we're not being screwed over by a technicality that we have absolutely no control over.

[Chargin]

Actually I think for most companies where people are able to buy shares at any time there is a a time between the announcement and when new share holders are no longer eligible for the dividend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dividend#Dividend_dates

EDIT.. having given it some more thought I decided to reword this post and put it into point form instead of rambling incoherently lolz.


1) it is wrong to assume that the "record date" and "ex-dividend" have to be a dates some time after an announcement.. they can be and often are within days of any special dividend announcement (sometimes even prior to the announcement date)

2) it is unwise to assume that if any such announcement was made that you would have enough grace period to collect shares so that you can become eligible for a dividend and profit from it. this is because typically as soon as announcement of a dividend is made the price corrects very quickly to include that dividend. Since Karmashares have no "price" this price correction will likely be reflected in Karma so unless you are willing to watch your computer screen 24 hours a day you are likely to miss the boat if your intention is to profit from a dividend announcement (which may or may not happen)

3) it would be unwise to announce a special dividend and return the bulk of any moneys from the sale of LIL.COM to Karmashares holders.

       firstly this will create panic buying and an administrative nightmare if people try to dump their Karmashares after the dividend payment is received.
       and secondly because the money would be better spent invested in new projects and growing the company.

4) as I have said many times.. Karmashares is an LLC not a corporation so it is wrong for anyone (including myself) to assume that all the laws and SEC trading rules governing corporations are equally applied to an LLC. In many cases they are, but experience has taught me that when dealing with crypto currency based investments you may not get the outcomes you would expect had you invested in a registered security.

1. I agree. I'm not assuming it HAS to be, I'm just saying it normally is, contrary to your statement. It sounded like you were referring to general dividends not special dividends. A special dividend is indicating that it is a one off payment, which I don't think would be the desired implication from a dividend declaration.

I also disagree with your statement that special dividends "often" (assuming that means more often than not) have no or a smaller time frame between announcement and the ex-dividend date. I would expect them to normally have a standard if not larger time frame because it is out of the ordinary, people need more time to process it. Anyways like I said I don't think it will be a dividend announcement at all.

2. I agree. Karmashare prices are fixed to Karma. I'm not suggesting that people don't buy Karma (or that people do or don't do anything for that matter). The question is whether the conversion of Karma to Karmashares will be allowable. I have indicated that it should be allowed and on that basis is likely. There are benefits of this to Karmashare holders too, don't forget if people can convert to partake in a dividend more people will buy Karma for converting it into Karmashares. This will create upward price pressure on Karma which will increase the value of Karmshares LLC because it has such large holdings.

3. I agree however I think that is what will happen if the sale proceeds. I will in fact argue very strongly that the dividend should be over multiple periods and a large portion of the funds should be retained.

4.  I agree. I can only state what should happen (ethically, legally, etc) or what I think will happen. The outcome may not be right or what I expect because it is up to other people's determination not mine...and I suppose there is a possibility I'm wrong about what should happen too.  

Then what happens with people who have tens of millions of coins and still can't figure out how to get their payment information recorded (BTC address)? Now you're "a shareholder" but you're also not, being that your information still isn't on the record.

It's important things like this that we need to get locked down ASAP to ensure we're not being screwed over by a technicality that we have absolutely no control over.

I'm sure there will be a large period of time between the date it is declared and when you can no longer make a claim to partake in the dividend. Although everyone is talking about technicalities I think as much will be done as possible to make it as fair as possible.

[mashac]

Lol.... most of the coin holders will jump the ship, if there is no sale. I hope there will be no sale and only the true believers of Karma team who has enough patience will get any profits in the future. Currently, most of the so called holders are only holding because of the very low price, not because of the love or belief in the Karma coin. People who have belief in the coin and team already took the risk and exchanged their coins for shares in the LLC. Only the believers(risk takers) should get the rewards and that is the right Karma, not some exchanges who hold other peoples coins in their wallet. So, I really really hope there will be no Lill sale and then we can see the true supporters for the coin.  

[socoban]

Lol.... most of the coin holders will jump the ship, if there is no sale. I hope there will be no sale and only the true believers of Karma team who has enough patience will get any profits in the future. Currently, most of the so called holders are only holding because of the very low price, not because of the love or belief in the Karma coin. People who have belief in the coin and team already took the risk and exchanged their coins for shares in the LLC. Only the believers(risk takers) should get the rewards and that is the right Karma, not some exchanges who hold other peoples coins in their wallet. So, I really really hope there will be no Lill sale and then we can see the true supporters for the coin.  

This is true, if there will be no sale, some people will dump, since they count with downtrend. I expect flash crash than. Dumpers will dump fast and than belivers will buy cheap KARM. The fact is, price will recover soon to 150-200 litoshi after any flash crash, the reason is KARM mining reward will be reduced from 35000 KARM per block to 20000 per block in 1 day. It is block 298505 and reward is cut to 20000 since block 300.000. Right now mining KARM was profitable at price higher than 130 litoshi. After that reward cut mining profitabiility will increase to 230+ litoshi. I call this save ticket to the moon. Either the sale is anounced and price will skyrocket, or it flashcrash and price wil recover to the current price in few weeks. I can't imagine better lottery ticket than this. Anyway, I am bubble beliver, I belive there will be multiple crypto bubbles. There is no reason to panic on short term price drop, if you hold trusted long term coin. Karm seems to be longterm, and it seems it will be there for many years. This is the most important part. To hold coins with future. Many will die, and those which will stay will be 1000x more expensive in future. This is the reason I have been buying karm last week again. I belive in sale of lill.com and if I am wrong, I will get my money back later.

[toeshe]

What is karmashares?
  100% of profits will be distributed to members on a quarterly basis according to each member's percentage owned of Karmashares LLC. Please note that Karmashares membership is only offered privately, not publicly.Further, exchanging your coins for membership should not be considered an "investment".


dont forget karmashares where not made for a investment !!!!

[Bierworst]

What on this earth is happening? There are only like 10 buy orders left on mintpal and 200+ million sold on cryptsy

[Maurizio]

holy dump

[Bierworst]

Correction, with the added dump on mintpal btc market, about 500 million karmacoins dumped!

[bondi]

Correction, with the added dump on mintpal btc market, about 500 million karmacoins dumped!

Took the opportunity to buy some cheap coins...

[Maurizio]

Or devs who dump and run away with the cash from lill to the bahamas. rofl.

[popolite11]

Or devs who dump and run away with the cash from lill to the bahamas. rofl.

may be he is having good time there lol.

[Bierworst]

Nah that would be stupid, because they would have first anounced a sale and then sold because selling 500 million coins on 10% of the price they 'could' be tomorrow is dumb and our devs are smart hehe

[socoban]

I feel scam here. If there is no sell anounced tomorrow, this will be 100% sign of inssider trading and dump. Pump on fake news and huge dump to 14 litoshi. Only early adopters had such KARM volume and all the news and gradation about lill.com seems like fake when we consider this dump.