[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[Skele]

Fair point.  Perhaps my post should have read "If you look at coin emission - then pump and dump was the LAST thing in the world you would think of.  Monero's early (first year or two) coin emission makes it almost impossible to pump as effectively as (most) other coins.  The coin release schedule just wasn't built for a pump and dump.

Thanks, good interpretation, and nice charts. With the other coins, marketcap is now a fraction of the pump high, with Monero, it is down only 50%.

So, any expectation of when its going up again?

[KrLos]

Thanks for the answers... I'm going to read more as soon as I get home and made my mind. 

Cheers.

[rdnkjdi]

So, any expectation of when its going up again?

I think it could bleed out quite a bit more due to the coin release schedule.   Too bad rptelias blocking us from real blood  . .

Thanks for the answers... I'm going to read more as soon as I get home and made my mind. 

Cheers.

Best of luck - hope you find what you're looking for

[generalizethis]

comment replyELI5: Sidechains
from x798 via /r/Bitcoin/ sent just now
show parent

"That's not FUD, the majority of the Monero hashrate is a botnet or two, you can't rationalize tens of thousands of GPUs mining a coin most people haven't heard of. The Monero block chain was actually attacked using a bug in the merkle tree type formation it used, an obscure hangover from Bytecoin. I'd call that a problem, wouldn't you?
the anonymity is tested
By who? I doubt anybody is really qualified to say if ring signatures can support anything. There's not even any proof that ECDSA itself is secure."

Can anyone discredit this statement? Don't have enough working knowledge to confirm or dismiss. 


Here's the link:

www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2k5jdg/eli5_sidechains/

[smooth]

comment replyELI5: Sidechains
from x798 via /r/Bitcoin/ sent just now
show parent

"That's not FUD, the majority of the Monero hashrate is a botnet or two, you can't rationalize tens of thousands of GPUs mining a coin most people haven't heard of. The Monero block chain was actually attacked using a bug in the merkle tree type formation it used, an obscure hangover from Bytecoin. I'd call that a problem, wouldn't you?
the anonymity is tested
By who? I doubt anybody is really qualified to say if ring signatures can support anything. There's not even any proof that ECDSA itself is secure."

Can anyone discredit this statement? Don't have enough working knowledge to confirm or dismiss. 


Here's the link:

www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2k5jdg/eli5_sidechains/

Try pointing out that it isn't responsive to the question of whether Monero/Cryptonote is innovative.

It is shifting the subject to whether the technology is immature. Well, yeah, obviously anything innovative is immature.

There are (EDIT: not) a whole lot of specifics to discredit there, it is all speculation and frankly FUD, as you said.

Where is the actual evidence backing up any of the claims (well other than that a bug was exploited -- that is true, and the bug is fixed)?

I do believe there are botnets but I don't believe they are nearly as much of the hashrate as FUDsters speculate, simply because mining is still profitable for a lot of people (not with high electricity rates). As long as mining is profitable, people will do it, especially in the current environment when it is hard to find anything you can mine profitably.

If botnets were rampant the hash rate would be even higher and mining profit would be driven down to nearly nothing. It isn't.

[generalizethis]

comment replyELI5: Sidechains
from x798 via /r/Bitcoin/ sent just now
show parent

"That's not FUD, the majority of the Monero hashrate is a botnet or two, you can't rationalize tens of thousands of GPUs mining a coin most people haven't heard of. The Monero block chain was actually attacked using a bug in the merkle tree type formation it used, an obscure hangover from Bytecoin. I'd call that a problem, wouldn't you?
the anonymity is tested
By who? I doubt anybody is really qualified to say if ring signatures can support anything. There's not even any proof that ECDSA itself is secure."

Can anyone discredit this statement? Don't have enough working knowledge to confirm or dismiss.  


Here's the link:

www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2k5jdg/eli5_sidechains/

Try pointing out that it isn't responsive to the question of whether Monero/Cryptonote is innovative.

It is shifting the subject to whether the technology is immature. Well, yeah, obviously anything innovative is immature.

There are a whole lot of specifics to discredit there, it is all speculation and frankly FUD, as you said.

Where is the actual evidence backing up any of the claims (well other than that a bug was exploited -- that is true, and the bug is fixed)?

I do believe there are botnets but I don't believe they are nearly as much of the hashrate as FUDsters speculate, simply because mining is still profitable for a lot of people (not with high electricity rates). As long as mining is profitable, people will do it, especially in the current environment when it is hard to find anything you can mine profitably.

If botnets were rampant the hash rate would be even higher and mining profit would be drive down to nearly nothing. It isn't.

Thank you, Smooth. Hopefully that shuts him up for awhile.

[smooth]

Thank you, Smooth. Hopefully that shuts him up for awhile.

I think you will find you can't really win with FUDsters. They generally have an agenda, either emotional attachment to some position or a commercial interest or both, and will shift between different arguments as necessary to keep going.

Hash rate too high? Botnet!

Hash rate too low? Insecure!

[xulescu]

...

There is something wrong with the charts

Monero chart looks as expected, where the market cap grows compared to the price in time because the number of coins emitted increases in time.



Darkcoin chart, in the right half of the chart, displays the market cap shrinking faster than the price. Did the total emission decrease??



XCurrency chart. Same comment, valid for the entirely of the chart. Did XCs disappear from circulation??

[novag]

Who dump? for new pump?

[smooth]

There is something wrong with the charts

I'm not sure but I think the scales may be misleading?

[superresistant]

Who dump? for new pump?

There are 2 reasons to dump :
 - creating a panic sell to get a lot of cheap coins
 - someone needs money fast and cannot wait

A dump is only temporary. What goes up must go down and what goes down must go up.
Patience is the key to make profit in cryptocurrency.

The hashrate and the price are low so it is a good time to mine if you have the hardware or to buy if you have some BTC.

[Eastwind]

The hashrate and the price are low so it is a good time to mine if you have the hardware or to buy if you have some BTC.

The price is low, but the hash rate is similar to the past. So who is mining with profit?

[xulescu]

There is something wrong with the charts

I'm not sure but I think the scales may be misleading?

Pick two points t1 < t2 at some distance apart such that, for example, cap(t1) = cap(t2) and price(t1) < price(t2), or, for example, price(t1) = price(t2) and cap(t1) > cap(t2). These pairs are not hard to find visually in the DRK and XC charts, but they do not exist in the XMR chart.

If it holds that cap(t) = price(t) * emission(t) for any t, then in both cases above it follows that emission(t1) > emission(t2) for some t1 < t2.

In other words, emission somehow decreased in time. That's why I wonder, did coins disappear by protocol??

[superresistant]

The hashrate and the price are low so it is a good time to mine if you have the hardware or to buy if you have some BTC.

The price is low, but the hash rate is similar to the past. So who is mining with profit?

I think Monero mining is similar to Bitcoin mining.
There are believers that mine whatever it cost.
Those believers expect the price to be so much higher tomorrow that it doesn't matter the today profitability.
They don't mine other shitcoins because they are shitcoins.

[Eastwind]

The hashrate and the price are low so it is a good time to mine if you have the hardware or to buy if you have some BTC.

The price is low, but the hash rate is similar to the past. So who is mining with profit?

I think Monero mining is similar to Bitcoin mining.
There are believers that mine whatever it cost.
Those believers expect the price to be so much higher tomorrow that it doesn't matter the today profitability.
They don't mine other shitcoins because they are shitcoins.

If they are the believers, they can get more XMR by buying instead of mining it. Maybe they just want to secure the network, or the miners' mining cost is very low, such as $0.05/kWh electricity price.

[smooth]

There is something wrong with the charts

I'm not sure but I think the scales may be misleading?

Pick two points t1 < t2 at some distance apart such that, for example, cap(t1) = cap(t2) and price(t1) < price(t2), or, for example, price(t1) = price(t2) and cap(t1) > cap(t2). These pairs are not hard to find visually in the DRK and XC charts, but they do not exist in the XMR chart.

If it holds that cap(t) = price(t) * emission(t) for any t, then in both cases above it follows that emission(t1) > emission(t2) for some t1 < t2.

In other words, emission somehow decreased in time. That's why I wonder, did coins disappear by protocol??

Market cap is measured in USD, price in BTC.

[xulescu]

There is something wrong with the charts

I'm not sure but I think the scales may be misleading?

Pick two points t1 < t2 at some distance apart such that, for example, cap(t1) = cap(t2) and price(t1) < price(t2), or, for example, price(t1) = price(t2) and cap(t1) > cap(t2). These pairs are not hard to find visually in the DRK and XC charts, but they do not exist in the XMR chart.

If it holds that cap(t) = price(t) * emission(t) for any t, then in both cases above it follows that emission(t1) > emission(t2) for some t1 < t2.

In other words, emission somehow decreased in time. That's why I wonder, did coins disappear by protocol??

Market cap is measured in USD, price in BTC.

Oh

/facepalm

[smooth]

If they are the believers, they can get more XMR by buying instead of mining it. Maybe they just want to secure the network, or the miners' mining cost is very low, such as $0.05/kWh electricity price.

It is somewhat profitable to CPU mine at 0.07 USD/kwh, so actually quite profitable at 0.05 or lower.  This is assuming a typical mid-high end desktop CPU. There are some more power-efficient CPUs but they are less common.

GPU mining is a bit more power-efficient and therefore more profitable than CPU mining, although there are probably some more profitable coins to GPU mine if you are purely maximizing profit and don't care what you mine.

[bclcjunkie]

there's quite a lot of interest in this coin, more like in the technology behind it and almost everyone that i introduced to monero, found it truly interesting in the wake of looming wealth confiscation whether in tax form, regulation or bailouts.. you can't deny monero's importance in preserving or moving your wealth on anonymous blockchain... well ultra rich people may not need this since they are already part of the elite club but average joes will find that out when governments start plundering their hard earned money to fund their profit driven wars or rescue banking cartel...
 i've been buying and intend to buy even more, the only problem is dumps are getting so pathetic so it's either dumpers don't have any more coins left to sell or just find it too cheap to let go off...

So, any expectation of when its going up again?

I think it could bleed out quite a bit more due to the coin release schedule.   Too bad rptelias blocking us from real blood  . .

Thanks for the answers... I'm going to read more as soon as I get home and made my mind.  

Cheers.

Best of luck - hope you find what you're looking for

[nakaone]

it is exactly this niche xmr should try to fill:

private store of value

we maybe need some places where you can use monero but the above is, also due to design of emmission rate the perfect use case - obv. store of value and velocity are interconnected, but from design the first function is much more important