NEM (XEM) Official Thread - 100% New Code - Easy To Use APIs

[TaunSew]

In the future:  "Guys NEM just felled to $22 per NEM, is NEM dying?!"  

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[Thingamajig]

even if you call this an ipo then what type of an investor you are if you do not check your investment?

Exactly, I have some shares (I mean non-crypto shares).
I check the prices everyday and I check news about companies at least once a week (but mostly more often).

As you've noted NEM is not IPO, but if it would and someone is not checking the status, he shouldn't be called investor, but a fraudster.

Pretty much spot on.

And NEM was never an IPO as most people who've paid attention are aware - it was a call of participation, to participate in this community and ecosystem. Those who don't only have themselves to blame.

I am glad that the NEM devs take on board the critiscms of those who (not so eloquently) complain about the redemption limits, but as i've said numerous times - there has to be limits here as to how accomodating the devs are. We've seen repeatedly from votes and changes that the devs are prepared to take on board and support those in different circumstances, but now i feel they're being taken for fools, and i certainly wouldn't want this to negatively effect what is a rather democratic process and community. Limits need to be established.

No other coin has had such an open or transparent process such as what we've seen from NEM thus far.

[TaunSew]

even if you call this an ipo then what type of an investor you are if you do not check your investment?

Exactly, I have some shares (I mean non-crypto shares).
I check the prices everyday and I check news about companies at least once a week (but mostly more often).

As you've noted NEM is not IPO, but if it would and someone is not checking the status, he shouldn't be called investor, but a fraudster.

Pretty much spot on.

And NEM was never an IPO as most people who've paid attention are aware - it was a call of participation, to participate in this community and ecosystem. Those who don't only have themselves to blame.

I am glad that the NEM devs take on board the critiscms of those who (not so eloquently) complain about the redemption limits, but as i've said numerous times - there has to be limits here as to how accomodating the devs are. We've seen repeatedly from votes and changes that the devs are prepared to take on board and support those in different circumstances, but now i feel they're being taken for fools, and i certainly wouldn't want this to negatively effect what is a rather democratic process and community. Limits need to be established.

They are being taken for fools.  The original plan was an unapologetic cut off but now you are given 3 months to claim and yet people are now asking for 6 months or indefinitely.  This is a metaphor called: "moving the goal posts"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts


I'ld say this - if people keep whining about it then the development team should change the 3 months down to 2 months.  If the whining persists then move it down to 1 month.  There is that old saying: "we don't negotiate with terrorists".

[Thingamajig]

even if you call this an ipo then what type of an investor you are if you do not check your investment?

Exactly, I have some shares (I mean non-crypto shares).
I check the prices everyday and I check news about companies at least once a week (but mostly more often).

As you've noted NEM is not IPO, but if it would and someone is not checking the status, he shouldn't be called investor, but a fraudster.

Pretty much spot on.

And NEM was never an IPO as most people who've paid attention are aware - it was a call of participation, to participate in this community and ecosystem. Those who don't only have themselves to blame.

I am glad that the NEM devs take on board the critiscms of those who (not so eloquently) complain about the redemption limits, but as i've said numerous times - there has to be limits here as to how accomodating the devs are. We've seen repeatedly from votes and changes that the devs are prepared to take on board and support those in different circumstances, but now i feel they're being taken for fools, and i certainly wouldn't want this to negatively effect what is a rather democratic process and community. Limits need to be established.

They are being taken for fools.  The original plan was an unapologetic cut off but now you are given 3 months to claim and yet people are now asking for 6 months or indefinitely.  This is a metaphor called: "moving the goal posts"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts


I'ld say this - if people keep whining about it then the development team should change the 3 months down to 2 months.  If the whining persists then move it down to 1 month.  There is that old saying: "we don't negotiate with terrorists".

Although i do completely agree (and in all honesty, anticipated this sort of thing), i think a large portion of those who complain come from a very vocal minority. People are more content to complain then they are to praise, after all. I think it's important to be aware of this especially if you're in any position of authority.

I'd also like to point out that a large majority of those who do complain come from the capital of FUD; BTT forums. All the more reason why i do encourage people move discussions to the NEM forums, and if there is any discontent among people there, call for votes.

I wouldn't propose that we reduce the timelimit. I think all thats necessary is to openly state a stance, with clear reasons as to why, and leave it at that - any further discussions should be ignored. The time limit was increased, the devs have done what they can to be as fair as possible. People demanding further action is, quite simply, taking the piss.

[sdersdf3]

The truth is it doesn't matter what we do. People will come and say it was unfair we didn't give them enough time and we hare literally Hitler. It's frustrating but that how btt works. Time to leave btt and completely communicate over forum.nemcoin.com.

You might want to take a look at what happened to NEOS after it did something similar.


Why don't we table this discussion over redistribution (which is what this is all essentially about, let's face it - that's why it's so contentious) to after the launch - it's damaging NEM's brand as a refuge from all the other altcoin crap out there, and it's hurting the price.

NEM was advertised to all of us who bought it as being above this shit.

[kodtycoon]

The truth is it doesn't matter what we do. People will come and say it was unfair we didn't give them enough time and we hare literally Hitler. It's frustrating but that how btt works. Time to leave btt and completely communicate over forum.nemcoin.com.

You might want to take a look at what happened to NEOS after it did something similar.


Why don't we table this discussion over redistribution (which is what this is all essentially about, let's face it - that's why it's so contentious) to after the launch - it's damaging NEM's brand as a refuge from all the other altcoin crap out there, and it's hurting the price.

its not this discussion thats hurting the price, its one whale that had a spontaneous urge to crap all over the market like a rhino with the shkithers..

[sdersdf3]

The truth is it doesn't matter what we do. People will come and say it was unfair we didn't give them enough time and we hare literally Hitler. It's frustrating but that how btt works. Time to leave btt and completely communicate over forum.nemcoin.com.

You might want to take a look at what happened to NEOS after it did something similar.


Why don't we table this discussion over redistribution (which is what this is all essentially about, let's face it - that's why it's so contentious) to after the launch - it's damaging NEM's brand as a refuge from all the other altcoin crap out there, and it's hurting the price.

its not this discussion thats hurting the price, its one whale that had a spontaneous urge to crap all over the market like a rhino with the shkithers..

It's been sliding for 7 straight days:
http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/nemstake/
Doesn't look like the actions of a single whale. Coincides roughly with the resumption of this talk over redistribution.

[nextgencoin]

Positivity needs to return to this thread. The trick is not to go down the rabbits hole of FUD'ers and kind of ignore them, when you try to respond and care what they say they win.

[abstraktalias]

even if you call this an ipo then what type of an investor you are if you do not check your investment?

Exactly, I have some shares (I mean non-crypto shares).
I check the prices everyday and I check news about companies at least once a week (but mostly more often).

As you've noted NEM is not IPO, but if it would and someone is not checking the status, he shouldn't be called investor, but a fraudster.

What a ridiculous statement. 

There were many people who bought hundreds or even thousands BTC from 2009-2011 and did in fact forget about it or didn't follow the price fluctuations on a daily basis until BTC started reaching new ATH's and making headlines. Once BTC started to gain some mainstream attention, those same people said "Wait Bitcoin, I think I bought some of those a couple of years ago, let me check."

For those people the same amount of BTC was still in their wallets, providing they could access them (i.e. didn't throw out the hard drive/PC that held them).  It's not like the total number of BTC reduced by 25%, 50% then 75% after each month that passed. 

Is it not possible that some people thought that NEM looked like a promising project back in January or February, threw some BTC at it while it was extremely cheap (less than 1 BTC) than simply said I'll check back in 6 to 12 months and see if it's worth claiming or worth anything?  I would think that has happened at least a few times. Part of being a long term investor is not checking the price on a daily basis and just believing that project/company itself has a promising future. 

Some people have lives that don't allow them the free time to post on BTT on a daily basis. Most accounts here on BTT (roughly 99%) that are active on a daily basis are newbies, day traders, sockpuppets, scammers, fraudster and charlatans. NOT INVESTORS.  Anyone who thinks otherwise in beyond naive.

Come up with a reasonable solution to deal with unclaimed stakes.  Don't redistribute them to other investors. Don't keep them for yourselves to help develop NEM.  And don't reduce the number someone bought regardless of how active or not active they are.  Those stakes still belong to them and that's how it should remain.  They should be able to claim them whenever they want period.  No other solution is reasonable.  You can still launch NEM, it's not like unclaimed stakes are holding back the process.   

All other decisions regarding unclaimed stakes are driven by greed and nothing else, which is the opposite if what attracted me to this community to begin with.

How this distribution is dealt with will determine whether or not I'll remain interested in NEM longterm.     

[Simakki]

The truth is it doesn't matter what we do. People will come and say it was unfair we didn't give them enough time and we hare literally Hitler. It's frustrating but that how btt works. Time to leave btt and completely communicate over forum.nemcoin.com.

You might want to take a look at what happened to NEOS after it did something similar.


Why don't we table this discussion over redistribution (which is what this is all essentially about, let's face it - that's why it's so contentious) to after the launch - it's damaging NEM's brand as a refuge from all the other altcoin crap out there, and it's hurting the price.

its not this discussion thats hurting the price, its one whale that had a spontaneous urge to crap all over the market like a rhino with the shkithers..

It's been sliding for 7 straight days:
http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/nemstake/
Doesn't look like the actions of a single whale. Coincides roughly with the resumption of this talk over redistribution.

If you look up, you will be blind if you dont notice how couple of accounts are playin with market. Im happy that we are going to launch soon to get rid of been tied with NXT AE.

Hopefully AE could be more effecient market place without large whales. I mean many of those "assets" seems to share certain similarities with ponzis.

[Simakki]

even if you call this an ipo then what type of an investor you are if you do not check your investment?

Exactly, I have some shares (I mean non-crypto shares).
I check the prices everyday and I check news about companies at least once a week (but mostly more often).

As you've noted NEM is not IPO, but if it would and someone is not checking the status, he shouldn't be called investor, but a fraudster.

What a ridiculous statement. 

There were many people who bought hundreds or even thousands BTC from 2009-2011 and did in fact forget about it or didn't follow the price fluctuations on a daily basis until BTC started reaching new ATH's and making headlines. Once BTC started to gain some mainstream attention, those same people said "Wait Bitcoin, I think I bought some of those a couple of years ago, let me check."

For those people the same amount of BTC was still in their wallets, providing they could access them (i.e. didn't throw out the hard drive/PC that held them).  It's not like the total number of BTC reduced by 25%, 50% then 75% after each month that passed. 

Is it not possible that some people thought that NEM looked like a promising project back in January or February, threw some BTC at it while it was extremely cheap (less than 1 BTC) than simply said I'll check back in 6 to 12 months and see if it's worth claiming or worth anything?  I would think that has happened at least a few times. Part of being a long term investor is not checking the price on a daily basis and just believing that project/company itself has a promising future. 

Some people have lives that don't allow them the free time to post on BTT on a daily basis. Most accounts here on BTT (roughly 99%) that are active on a daily basis are newbies, day traders, sockpuppets, scammers, fraudster and charlatans. NOT INVESTORS.  Anyone who thinks otherwise in beyond naive.

Come up with a reasonable solution to deal with unclaimed stakes.  Don't redistribute them to other investors. Don't keep them for yourselves to help develop NEM.  And don't reduce the number someone bought regardless of how active or not active they are.  Those stakes still belong to them and that's how it should remain.  They should be able to claim them whenever they want period.  No other solution is reasonable.  You can still launch NEM, it's not like unclaimed stakes are holding back the process.   

All other decisions regarding unclaimed stakes are driven by greed and nothing else, which is the opposite if what attracted me to this community to begin with.

How this distribution is dealt with will determine whether or not I'll remain interested in NEM longterm.     

Blaa blaa, how that "investor" tought that he will have those NEM transfered to him if he didnt pay any attention. Poorly made effort compare with BTC, after launch you could so so but not now

[abstraktalias]

The truth is it doesn't matter what we do. People will come and say it was unfair we didn't give them enough time and we hare literally Hitler. It's frustrating but that how btt works. Time to leave btt and completely communicate over forum.nemcoin.com.
[/quote]

Yeah I understand where you're frustration is coming from, but this is exactly the wrong way to go about things.

What's wrong with just putting the amount of unclaimed stakes away in storage until people want to claim them? What's the rush to get rid of them?

 

[futurebit640]

NXT = unfair distribution
NEM = fair distribution

do you remember utopianfuture?

So funny Story

back to Fiat this has fair distribution

[abstraktalias]

even if you call this an ipo then what type of an investor you are if you do not check your investment?

Exactly, I have some shares (I mean non-crypto shares).
I check the prices everyday and I check news about companies at least once a week (but mostly more often).

As you've noted NEM is not IPO, but if it would and someone is not checking the status, he shouldn't be called investor, but a fraudster.

What a ridiculous statement. 

There were many people who bought hundreds or even thousands BTC from 2009-2011 and did in fact forget about it or didn't follow the price fluctuations on a daily basis until BTC started reaching new ATH's and making headlines. Once BTC started to gain some mainstream attention, those same people said "Wait Bitcoin, I think I bought some of those a couple of years ago, let me check."

For those people the same amount of BTC was still in their wallets, providing they could access them (i.e. didn't throw out the hard drive/PC that held them).  It's not like the total number of BTC reduced by 25%, 50% then 75% after each month that passed. 

Is it not possible that some people thought that NEM looked like a promising project back in January or February, threw some BTC at it while it was extremely cheap (less than 1 BTC) than simply said I'll check back in 6 to 12 months and see if it's worth claiming or worth anything?  I would think that has happened at least a few times. Part of being a long term investor is not checking the price on a daily basis and just believing that project/company itself has a promising future. 

Some people have lives that don't allow them the free time to post on BTT on a daily basis. Most accounts here on BTT (roughly 99%) that are active on a daily basis are newbies, day traders, sockpuppets, scammers, fraudster and charlatans. NOT INVESTORS.  Anyone who thinks otherwise in beyond naive.

Come up with a reasonable solution to deal with unclaimed stakes.  Don't redistribute them to other investors. Don't keep them for yourselves to help develop NEM.  And don't reduce the number someone bought regardless of how active or not active they are.  Those stakes still belong to them and that's how it should remain.  They should be able to claim them whenever they want period.  No other solution is reasonable.  You can still launch NEM, it's not like unclaimed stakes are holding back the process.   

All other decisions regarding unclaimed stakes are driven by greed and nothing else, which is the opposite if what attracted me to this community to begin with.

How this distribution is dealt with will determine whether or not I'll remain interested in NEM longterm.     

Blaa blaa, how that "investor" tought that he will have those NEM transfered to him if he didnt pay any attention. Poorly made effort compare with BTC, after launch you could so so but not now

It's not that they thought they should be transfer directly to them, it's that there shouldn't be a deadline for them to claim plain and simple.

Unclaimed stakes have nothing to do with launching NEM. I don't like how immature/greedy people are getting here.  Not looking good.

[Thingamajig]

For those people the same amount of BTC was still in their wallets, providing they could access them (i.e. didn't throw out the hard drive/PC that held them).  

This is just sheer negligence - negligence that shouldn't be a burden on the developers part. It is the investors responsibility, not theirs.

If i were an investor in anything, i'd be making more of an effort on my part to at least follow it on a weekly or at least monthly basis, especially in a fast paced and rather volatile market such as crypto's. BTC was also a major exception to the rule - there were no crypto markets then, peoples negligence was somewhat justified. Things are different now.

Some people have lives that don't allow them the free time to post on BTT on a daily basis. Most accounts here on BTT (roughly 99%) that are active on a daily basis are newbies, day traders, sockpuppets, scammers, fraudster and charlatans. NOT INVESTORS.  Anyone who thinks otherwise in beyond naive.

So is it really so demanding that they at least spend a few hours a night, maybe once or twice a month, to follow their investment and the terms in which they may need to abide by to claim? How is it possibly the fault of the devs if people are so flippant and care free that they just throw money at projects and expect -- no, demand -- some sort of reimbursement of what little efforts they put in?

Come up with a reasonable solution to deal with unclaimed stakes.  Don't redistribute them to other investors. Don't keep them for yourselves to help develop NEM.  

I do believe it's ultimately the people who participate in these currencies that make them what they are - which is why, to some extent, i'm with you on not keeping it aside as a "development fund".

However, given that too many people just throw money at this project, and not follow it, are they really individuals who can provide something to NEM and it's ecosystem? or have they proven that they're simply in it for a quick buck, their own gains, and washing their hands of it once they're satisfied? At least having some sort of redemption limit, some sort of terms that it requires people to show some vested interest.

How this distribution is dealt with will determine whether or not I'll remain interested in NEM longterm.  

In the end, this is what most people will do regardless of the outcome. It's unfortunate you'd feel that way but really, in my perspective; it's your loss.  

[balu2]

The truth is it doesn't matter what we do. People will come and say it was unfair we didn't give them enough time and we hare literally Hitler. It's frustrating but that how btt works. Time to leave btt and completely communicate over forum.nemcoin.com.

you are all Hitler! Go hiding!

Grow some skin, man.  

Generally: if you let people vote over a problem nobody can say a lot because 'democracy'    Just an idea.

[Thingamajig]

The truth is it doesn't matter what we do. People will come and say it was unfair we didn't give them enough time and we hare literally Hitler. It's frustrating but that how btt works. Time to leave btt and completely communicate over forum.nemcoin.com.

you are all Hitler! Go hiding!

Grow some skin, man.  

Generally: if you let people vote over a problem nobody can say a lot because 'democracy'    Just an idea.

A vote is a good way to proceed for sure, but i do ask myself - how many (legitimate people ) will actually participate in that vote?

I do wonder maybe few will, which leads me to believe this whole redemption issue is only pressed by a minority of people. I am happy to be proven wrong though in this regard.

[balu2]

The truth is it doesn't matter what we do. People will come and say it was unfair we didn't give them enough time and we hare literally Hitler. It's frustrating but that how btt works. Time to leave btt and completely communicate over forum.nemcoin.com.

you are all Hitler! Go hiding!

Grow some skin, man.  

Generally: if you let people vote over a problem nobody can say a lot because 'democracy'    Just an idea.

A vote is a good way to proceed for sure, but i do ask myself - how many (legitimate people ) will actually participate in that vote?

I do wonder maybe few will, which leads me to believe this whole redemption issue is only pressed by a minority of people. I am happy to be proven wrong though in this regard.

well, only people holding nem should be voting of course. You can even vote on the chain maybe.

[abstraktalias]

For those people the same amount of BTC was still in their wallets, providing they could access them (i.e. didn't throw out the hard drive/PC that held them).  

This is just sheer negligence - negligence that shouldn't be a burden on the developers part. It is the investors responsibility, not theirs.

If i were an investor in anything, i'd be making more of an effort on my part to at least follow it on a weekly or at least monthly basis, especially in a fast paced and rather volatile market such as crypto's. BTC was also a major exception to the rule - there were no crypto markets then, peoples negligence was somewhat justified. Things are different now.

Some people have lives that don't allow them the free time to post on BTT on a daily basis. Most accounts here on BTT (roughly 99%) that are active on a daily basis are newbies, day traders, sockpuppets, scammers, fraudster and charlatans. NOT INVESTORS.  Anyone who thinks otherwise in beyond naive.

So is it really so demanding that they at least spend a few hours a night, maybe once or twice a month, to follow their investment and the terms in which they may need to abide by to claim? How is it possibly the fault of the devs if people are so flippant and care free that they just throw money at projects and expect -- no, demand -- some sort of reimbursement of what little efforts they put in?

Come up with a reasonable solution to deal with unclaimed stakes.  Don't redistribute them to other investors. Don't keep them for yourselves to help develop NEM.  

I do believe it's ultimately the people who participate in these currencies that make them what they are - which is why, to some extent, i'm with you on not keeping it aside as a "development fund".

However, given that too many people just throw money at this project, and not follow it, are they really individuals who can provide something to NEM and it's ecosystem? or have they proven that they're simply in it for a quick buck, their own gains, and washing their hands of it once they're satisfied? At least having some sort of redemption limit, some sort of terms that it requires people to show some vested interest.

How this distribution is dealt with will determine whether or not I'll remain interested in NEM longterm.  

In the end, this is what most people will do regardless of the outcome. It's unfortunate you'd feel that way but really, in my perspective; it's your loss.  

Thanks for the well thought out replies.  I actually appreciate the fact that you answered them logically. 

The thing is regardless of how active or not those initial investors are/were they still providing something, their initial investment (in BTC), which allowed the project to be developed further.  That initial funding is participating in a sense, though indirectly. 

If it was my project I'd want to thank those people who initially had faith in me, by making sure they got a return on their investment. 

It's really not a huge burden on the developer's part either. You give a month to the active community to claim their stake before official launch and then hold the unclaimed ones and distribute them once a month there after.  It's not a daunting task or an unreasonable request.

Anyways it's a mute point for me as I'm not on that original list, but I also still want to see the issue dealt with properly as I can't imagine the solutions suggested so far would do anything to help the reputation of NEM in the future.

Learn from NXT's mistakes, that's always been NEM's advantage. 

[Thingamajig]

The thing is regardless of how active or not those initial investors are/were they still providing something, their initial investment (in BTC), which allowed the project to be developed further.  That initial funding is participating in a sense, though indirectly.  

If it was my project I'd want to thank those people who initially had faith in me, by making sure they got a return on their investment.  

I think we both know it doesn't work this way. People buy into IPO's to dump later at a higher price. It's why NEM called it a "Call to participation" - it was asking people to invest and show interest in it as a community, to participate in this community, to encourage people to work on it's ecosystem and to help prevent people dumping for some quick fiat. Simple "investing" just doesn't cut it anymore. For many people that investment is just a means to an end; to cash out.

It's really not a huge burden on the developer's part either. You give a month to the active community to claim their stake before official launch and then hold the unclaimed ones and distribute them once a month there after.  It's not a daunting task or an unreasonable request.

I think the devs have expressed reasons why this isn't the case. Although i wish i could believe you otherwise.

Anyways it's a mute point for me as I'm not on that original list, but I also still want to see the issue dealt with properly as I can't imagine the solutions suggested so far would do anything to help the reputation of NEM in the future.

Learn from NXT's mistakes, that's always been NEM's advantage.  

In all fairness i think this is precisely why this discussion has gone on for so long (ironically, there appears to be hardly any hint of it on the NEM forums - where ideally it should be).

Given NEM's development and distribution thus far, it's leagues and bounds away from what NXT ever was.