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Author Topic: #1 RATINGS of BITCOIN SPORTSBOOKS since 2014 : KYC Rankings, Bonuses, Scam Accus  (Read 259717 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (1 post by 1+ user deleted.)
robinH
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June 04, 2016, 06:12:42 AM
 #2021

@  peepsplace why do you keep deleting directbet.eu posts? Not cool unless you have something to hide.... I was just about to reply to something they posted,  but can't find it.

directbet.eu this back and fort between yourself and peepsplace is just diversionary. Why are you finding it difficult returning the stake back to hungerstyle? Is it because of the amount involved? If it were a few cents , would you  let it play out this long? It is just plain wrong. Sort this out asap. None of my business but I think you should be called to order. Other users should be made aware that you potentially could arbitrarily confisticate their funds whenever you choose to. The evidence so far points to a potential double spend attempt. But it is not conclusive, you cannot say for sure. You received the funds afterall.You already agreed to pay back the money, how about acting in good faith and doing just that instead of shifting the goal post @ every opportunity?
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June 04, 2016, 07:22:58 AM
 #2022

@  peepsplace why do you keep deleting directbet.eu posts? Not cool unless you have something to hide.... I was just about to reply to something they posted,  but can't find it.

directbet.eu this back and fort between yourself and peepsplace is just diversionary.

We posted official response to hungerstyle with additional evidence here :

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1481406.msg15068129#msg15068129

If you have any questions please reply there.

We can not have a fair discussion here because this is a self moderated thread and Peeps Place is selectively deleting our posts.

We already posted this message but Peeps Place deleted it because he wants to create an image as if we ignore you.

Peeps Place also deleted the following post as he tries to avoid answering which of his rated SportsBooks pay him to advertise and promote them.

Edit: I didn't realize peeps has his own site, thought this was referring just to the thread.

THe site has obvious banners, enough for players to assume peeps is profiting off this,  so most of my assumptions were wrong.  


Quote from: Peeps Place, original post deleted
It's not my site.

Are you still working with PeepsPlace.com ?

Can you disclose which of your rated SportsBooks pay PeepsPlace.com for advertisement now, and which paid in the past ?




Here we go again,  focusing on peeps place instead of  sorting things out with hungerstyle.

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June 04, 2016, 03:13:18 PM
 #2023

@  peepsplace why do you keep deleting directbet.eu posts? Not cool unless you have something to hide.... I was just about to reply to something they posted,  but can't find it.

directbet.eu this back and fort between yourself and peepsplace is just diversionary. Why are you finding it difficult returning the stake back to hungerstyle? Is it because of the amount involved? If it were a few cents , would you  let it play out this long? It is just plain wrong. Sort this out asap. None of my business but I think you should be called to order. Other users should be made aware that you potentially could arbitrarily confisticate their funds whenever you choose to. The evidence so far points to a potential double spend attempt. But it is not conclusive, you cannot say for sure. You received the funds afterall.You already agreed to pay back the money, how about acting in good faith and doing just that instead of shifting the goal post @ every opportunity?

DirectBet knows the rules of the thread. Posters can say anything. Books must stick to their own book.

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June 04, 2016, 03:16:56 PM
 #2024

hybershire
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Yes! I really think you should restart it as a moderated thread so visitors don't need to wade through literally tens of pages of posts from Directbet.

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June 04, 2016, 03:19:08 PM
 #2025

DirectBet uses many ghost accounts to shill for DirectBet and bash competitors. He was completely banned from this current thread but I let him post to defend himself. DirectBet uses ghost accounts in all polls. If he goes off topic one more time, all posts will be deleted by DirectBet.

 

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June 04, 2016, 03:21:55 PM
 #2026

Waylon James

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My Gawd.

Just shut the fuck up, Direct Bet. You are embarrassing yourself. Go jack off on Skype or do something else that might help keep your dignity.

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June 04, 2016, 04:36:56 PM
 #2027

i can send emails from that address only cloudbet sees a scrambled address so they have started ignoring me.  How is it that i have all the emails they sent me if it is not my email address?  How hard is this to understand?  i hate to just give up here. 
i am no stranger to being screwed over by offshore bookies.  i lost $1500 when Betislands went down.


Hi FastEddie

I'm looking into this for you. Cheers.

Apologies for the inconvenience and thanks for your patience and understanding.

Cloudbet

Bet graded today.  Thank you. 
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June 04, 2016, 10:09:21 PM
 #2028

DirectBet uses many ghost accounts to shill for DirectBet and bash competitors... DirectBet uses ghost accounts in all polls...

Proof?
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June 04, 2016, 10:18:48 PM
 #2029

directbet, still waiting on you send payment.
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June 05, 2016, 01:34:24 AM
 #2030

directbet, still waiting on you send payment.

hungerstyle - In their thread, Directbet states (I'm numbering the claims, the rest I've copied and pasted):


1) "You will notice the transaction was double spent in the exact same manner he planned to double spend his bet in case it loses.

He deliberately sent it as a big sized transaction with significantly low fees at first, and later double spent it in a transaction with excessive fees, much higher fees than required to ensure the double spend is executed immediately on the next block."




2) "If you look at his posts you will see that for several days he tried to avoid posting the payout address of his bet, because he knew this would be an evidence of his fraudulent activity, and not just towards DirectBet."




3) "When we first confronted him with our findings he did not deny his double spend attempt. Moreover, he agreed not to do it again if we return his original wager. However, when we asked him to sign a formal agreement he refused."



4) "Later on he informed us that he is not the person who sent this bet transfer and that he does not own the payout address used for this bet."



5) "When we asked to get in touch with the person who actually sent this bet transfer and who owns the payout address, he said that this person is "not available". "



I assume Directbet has evidence of all of these claims using emails and pm's in your mutual correspondence.
If so, it seems clear that they have a solid case against you.

Under each numbered quote, can you state what you disagree with if anything, and post any proof of your disagreements if you have any.
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June 05, 2016, 04:12:51 AM
 #2031

gogo - You've been around the block. Players take shots at books all the time playing bad numbers or after games have been started. None of the books confiscate deposits as a punishment. They cancel winnings. DirectBet confiscated a deposit and that should never be done.

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June 05, 2016, 05:33:19 AM
Last edit: June 05, 2016, 06:30:28 AM by Gogo ppp
 #2032

gogo - You've been around the block. Players take shots at books all the time playing bad numbers or after games have been started. None of the books confiscate deposits as a punishment. They cancel winnings. DirectBet confiscated a deposit and that should never be done.

You mention two situations where the book has made an error, or in the case of a "bad number" at least claims to have made an error.
In those situations, a player could legitimately not know the start time or not know the market line (many only use 1 book), and so I have pretty much always sided with the player in those circumstances and generally have felt that the bet and deposit should be paid unless a serious attempt was made to notify the player and the book is also going to refund losing bets that were also made after the game started or losing bets on the other side of the "bad" number (and the book can then 86 the player after they pay him if they don't want to deal with him any longer).


As you may recall, when a new book appears, several times I've posted in this thread pointing out language in their T&C which is questionable, such as "We can confiscate funds if a player is part of a betting syndicate" and other such egregious language (which to me is simply scamming/free rolling on the book's part).
In the case of Anonibet, I persisted on trying to get them to clarify a vague statement that if a player deposits and doesn't bet and then withdraws, they can keep 5% if they wish. Etc.

And in a number of cases, books did then modify their T&C to make them more "player friendly".

So I am or have been opposed to anything that can allow a book to take a shot at a player.




Btc books have a circumstance that is new with bitcoins.

Double spend presents a new way to scam, as in the case which Directbet alleges.

If a person tries to commit credit card fraud or bank fraud with checks, etc., this will ultimately result in criminal charges by the bank or the cc company.


But with btc, a player can takes shots at businesses accepting btc all day long.
Perhaps, as you feel, the correct thing is for the business that catches an attempt at a doublespend to simply state "We caught you. Here's your btc back."

But it seems then the scammer has nothing to lose, and for that matter may as well try again.

If the business instead states "We caught you. We're keeping your funds because you tried to cheat us", this would be a strong incentive for scammers not to mess with them.

I've never thought about this until now, and wasn't even aware of doublespend until now, but these are my initial thoughts on this type of situation. So I'm basically stating that I can see the book's point of view on this issue in a case where it is demonstrable that the doublespender was scamming.
Apparently in this case due to all Directbet has stated, this person has a history of this, he didn't deny it at first and agreed not to do it again, the way the doublespend attempt was made seems to be demonstrable, etc.

In this case, Directbet is willing to return the funds, conditionally. So it appears to me they're making a compromise and their primary goal with this incident is not to steal the btc.


I realize that this rule opens the door for books to take shots at players if there is an accidental doublespend. I don't understand how that happens but if it does occur, it could create potential future conflicts.



What would you do if you were a book and someone tried an obvious doublespend?
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June 05, 2016, 08:03:02 AM
 #2033

gogo - attempted double spend doesn't mean that you tried to double spend. It means that you may have tried to double spend. It may have already shown up on a couple of your bets.

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June 05, 2016, 08:09:52 AM
Last edit: June 05, 2016, 08:40:13 AM by Peeps Place
 #2034

Sometimes attempted double spend show without a person trying to double spend.

That's true, but we have developed extensive knowledge, experience and tools that allow us to tell the difference..........


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June 05, 2016, 08:19:08 AM
 #2035

This is a self moderated thread. Books will be censored if they post about another book. No posters will be censored unless posts become overly repetitive.

All of DirectBet's posts, as well as posts that quote DirectBet will be deleted. Thread rules state that books must only talk about their own book.

Books should not have to come into this thread to defend themselves from attacks by DirectBet.

DirectBet may post about the individual case at hand but nothing else.

New posters may also have their posts deleted to prevent DirectBet from ghosting.

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June 05, 2016, 08:31:47 AM
 #2036

author=TwitchySeal link=topic=717790.msg15038754#msg15038754 date=1464741285]
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Not all double spend attempts are intentional.  It could happen to anyone.

Many sites require at least one confirmation (or more) to prevent being exploited by double spend attempts.  

I assume DirectBet knows this and chooses not to require 1 confirm in hopes it will attract more players.  

If a site is going to accept 0 confirm deposits they should expect players to try and exploit this.  They should also expect innocent double spends to happen.  There are two ways of handling these situations.

A)Make sure they are never scammed and seize any bets with suspicious double spend attempts.
Result: Scammers will never succeed but inevitable innocent players will not be paid causing damage to DB reputation.

B) Pay out every bet unless they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a wager was made with the intention of exploiting the house.
Result:  They will end up losing funds to scammers, which will encourage more scammers to scam more, but DB will maintain their exceptional reputation for being trustworthy.

Of course, there could be other ways to prevent these situations (accepting action from 0 confirm deposits from only established players for example)  .  If I were them, that's what I would be focusing on.

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June 05, 2016, 09:10:39 AM
 #2037

gogo - attempted double spend doesn't mean that you tried to double spend. It means that you may have tried to double spend.

We posted evidence that the double spend was made on purpose.

When you send out a transaction with extremely low fees and a few hours later double spend it with extremely high fees, and you then repeat on the same pattern over and over again, that can not possibly be wallet "misconfiguration" or "user error". That's fraud.

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June 05, 2016, 09:16:45 AM
Last edit: June 05, 2016, 08:24:48 PM by robinH
 #2038

directbet.eu would have rejected the bet anyway or should have, double spend attempt or not. I've been placing small bets there in the past few hours and the one thing that struck me as very odd is the fact that their maximum bets for any selection/event is anything between 1btc and 4 btc.

Take the final match today between Djokovic and Murray... We are talking about the finals here, of the same tournament (French Open) the max bet permitted (for me at least) - Djokovic @ 1.26 is 3.782btc , and 1btc for Murray @ 3.05. I checked out their lines for every selection/sport and the maximum bet allowed is 4btc.

My question to directbet.eu is what happens when a bettor sends you an amount in excess of your maximum bet? Do you reject the bet automatically, or deduct the maximum permitted then refund the rest? Double spend attempt or not, would you have honoured the bet if it won, considering the stake involved is approximately 10 times  the size of your maximum bet?

It smacks of hypocrisy and serious double standards that directbet.eu would seize an amount/bet size that they would never have accepted or honoured in the first place. But they are happy to confisticate the said amount. This is clear scammy behaviour from directbet.eu.

I wonder why hungerstyle placed a bet size that would not have being accepted anyway. And I have pm'ed him to ask. However from my previous communication with him it is obvious that English is not a language he understands well and communicating is difficult.

Nowhere on directbet.eu bet confirmation page does it state clearly that bet stakes can be confisticated for whatever reason. This clause is nicely tucked away/hidden somewhere in their terms and conditions.  How many of us read these terms and conditions before betting? It takes away all the fun right? Then imagine how  difficult it would ve been for someone that  barely understands English.  Could this also be the reason why he sent more than the maximum bet permitted? 10 times more?

Was this a genuine double  spend attempt? I don't know and I have no idea. I am not a blockchain expert. But more knowledgeable members like TwitchySeal and RHaver have demonstrated that it may not be. The only ones that are absolutely sure are directbet. And they are the only ones profiting from it.

The problem with bitcoin sportbooks and casinos is they are unregulated. This is the wild west of online gambling. Books disappearing with deposits. Some needing days to grade bets (cloudbet) , not honouring bonuses (Jetwin), citing outrageous reasons + many other examples. It is left to us the community to police them. The very least we can do is shoot straight and be honest at all times. After all tomorrow it could be you or me on the receiving end.

directbet.eu should do the right thing and refund the stake back to hungerstyle. Think of how much goodwill this would buy you. Until then a mod should red trust them as a warning to others
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June 05, 2016, 09:34:05 AM
Last edit: June 05, 2016, 10:06:35 AM by DirectBet
 #2039

My question to directbet.eu is what happens when a bettor sends you an amount in excess of your maximum bet?

If your bet size is over the limit, your bet will be rejected and refunded instantly and automatically.

In this case the bet was within the limits. For the higher profile events the max bet size is bigger.

For example, if you want to bet on Djokovic now, the max bet size is 60 BTC, you can see it here :

N Djokovic v A Murray

In our FAQ we explain in more details about the max bet size :

https://directbet.eu/FAQ.cshtml#MaxBet

Was this a genuine double  spend attempt? I don't know and I have no idea. I am not a blockchain expert. But more knowledgeable members like TwitchySeal and RHaver have demonstrated that it may not be.

RHaver and TwitchySeal remarks were made while they did not have all the information and we were unable to contribute since the investigation was still in progress.

Look at the additional evidence that we posted above. When you send out a transaction with extremely low fees and a few hours later double spend it with extremely high fees, and you then repeat on the same pattern over and over again, that can not possibly be wallet "misconfiguration" or "user error". That's fraud.

directbet.eu should do the right thing and refund the stake back to hungerstyle.

Since day 1 we informed hungerstyle that we are willing to return the coins as a goodwill gesture provided that he signs an agreement that will assure us that he will not attempt to defraud us again.

hungerstyle agreed he will not do it again. We wanted to make a formal agreement and he provided us with his contact information for that.

We suspected the contact information that he provided was faked, so we asked him to prove it, but he refused.

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June 05, 2016, 10:24:06 AM
 #2040

My question to directbet.eu is what happens when a bettor sends you an amount in excess of your maximum bet?

If your bet size is over the limit, your bet will be rejected and refunded instantly and automatically.

In this case the bet was within the limits. For the higher profile events the max bet size is bigger.

For example, if you want to bet on Djokovic now, the max bet size is 60 BTC, you can see it here :

N Djokovic v A Murray

In our FAQ we explain in more details about the max bet size :

https://directbet.eu/FAQ.cshtml#MaxBet

Was this a genuine double  spend attempt? I don't know and I have no idea. I am not a blockchain expert. But more knowledgeable members like TwitchySeal and RHaver have demonstrated that it may not be.

RHaver and TwitchySeal remarks were made while they did not have all the information and we were unable to contribute since the investigation was still in progress.

Look at the additional evidence that we posted above. When you send out a transaction with extremely low fees and a few hours later double spend it with extremely high fees, and you then repeat on the same pattern over and over again, that can not possibly be wallet "misconfiguration" or "user error". That's fraud.

directbet.eu should do the right thing and refund the stake back to hungerstyle.

Since day 1 we informed hungerstyle that we are willing to return the coins as a goodwill gesture provided that he signs an agreement that will assure us that he will not attempt to defraud us again.

hungerstyle agreed he will not do it again. We wanted to make a formal agreement and he provided us with his contact information for that.

We suspected the contact information that he provided was faked, so we asked him to prove it, but he refused.

Lol Lol  Lol!!!!  Grin

Now I am convinced more than ever that you are a corrupt theiving book. Those amounts were adjusted a few minutes ago for the sake of this argument/thread. Anybody with brains between their ears can see through you. How come you have 60 btc on Djokovic but only 7 btc on Murray.  How come all of a sudden you have 60btc available on the one selection I quoted in my previous post? How come every other line still has low max bets and only this 1 selection accepts 60 btc? Do the right thing directbet.eu. people see through your underhand tactics

And please don't speak for TwitchySeal and RHaver,  they are yet to say otherwise.  The only ones adamant it is a double spend is you.the only ones benefiting here is you.
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