[XMR] Monero Speculation

[generalizethis]

A space station may not be the most interesting thing that you buy with your Monero. Have you considered immortality?

I've been researching Aubrey de Grey, Ray Kurzweil, Peter Thiel, Ellison, Brin, etc. and other people who are researching or supporting life extension. It seems that there are a lot of smart people who believe that we'll be able to realistically extend our lives to 120+ years. That will then be enough, for some of us, to survive until the point where technology allows us to extend our lives indefinitely.

But the first generation of immortals will need lots of money. Read more here:
http://www.newsweek.com/2015/03/13/silicon-valley-trying-make-humans-immortal-and-finding-some-success-311402.html

Newsflash: It's impossible to experience nothingness, therefore you can only ever experience somethingness, therefore you are eternal.

No, that doesn't equal you being eternal. It equals your experience being limited to when you are alive which is why people are trying to extend their lives.... So they can have more experiences and maybe switch a career after they've spent a natural lifetime mastering one, or maybe experience what it's like to be young again or be rich or live long enough to travel off this crappy rock that encourages the eat or be eaten lifestyle, which is why i want my investments to succeed and i can enjoy my space yacht with my hot android GFs. (see how i got that back on topic  )

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[chennan]

A space station may not be the most interesting thing that you buy with your Monero. Have you considered immortality?

I've been researching Aubrey de Grey, Ray Kurzweil, Peter Thiel, Ellison, Brin, etc. and other people who are researching or supporting life extension. It seems that there are a lot of smart people who believe that we'll be able to realistically extend our lives to 120+ years. That will then be enough, for some of us, to survive until the point where technology allows us to extend our lives indefinitely.

But the first generation of immortals will need lots of money. Read more here:
http://www.newsweek.com/2015/03/13/silicon-valley-trying-make-humans-immortal-and-finding-some-success-311402.html

I will never understand people who advocate immortality. It's akin to being a prisoner and seeking an extension of incarceration.

Newsflash: It's impossible to experience nothingness, therefore you can only ever experience somethingness, therefore you are eternal.

All that remains is the nature of the experience, and this place falls short.

Given you are eternal, the only acceptable place is a place where you have absolute freedom. Otherwise you are a prisoner. Why the hell would you want to extend that?

Happy Saturday Everyone.

I guess this kind of thing relates to what you believe will happen after you die.  Will you die and your soul will shoot up in the clouds where gumdrop fairies and unicorns frollick and play? Probably not.  Will you die and because that there are no more neurochemical connections taking place in your brain, there will be nothingness and no more you in general? Possible, but not what I would like to believe in.

Could there be a realistic way where people are given eternal life by maybe "downloading" your conscious somewhere and then after you die you can "reprogram" it into something else which allows you keep living even longer?  Given that science and technology has gotten extremely complex, I think that this is possible as well. 

...

Getting back on topic though, we're getting back to being dangerously close to that .001 mark. I'm getting to the point where I think that even though this has been the point of major resistance for a long time, I think that if bitcoin were to spike in price right about now, we will see prices go below that I think, so I'm still waiting to get some more coinage. Do you guys think were going to be sinking below this mark?

[jehst]

Getting back on topic though, we're getting back to being dangerously close to that .001 mark. I'm getting to the point where I think that even though this has been the point of major resistance for a long time, I think that if bitcoin were to spike in price right about now, we will see prices go below that I think, so I'm still waiting to get some more coinage. Do you guys think were going to be sinking below this mark?

If bitcoin rockets to $1000 and XMR stays flat at $0.50, then you can hold BTC now and get more XMR at .0005. Realistically, I can't see it going below .0005.

But you can't wait until .0005 to start buying because the volume won't be there.  

[rangedriver]

A space station may not be the most interesting thing that you buy with your Monero. Have you considered immortality?

I've been researching Aubrey de Grey, Ray Kurzweil, Peter Thiel, Ellison, Brin, etc. and other people who are researching or supporting life extension. It seems that there are a lot of smart people who believe that we'll be able to realistically extend our lives to 120+ years. That will then be enough, for some of us, to survive until the point where technology allows us to extend our lives indefinitely.

But the first generation of immortals will need lots of money. Read more here:
http://www.newsweek.com/2015/03/13/silicon-valley-trying-make-humans-immortal-and-finding-some-success-311402.html

Newsflash: It's impossible to experience nothingness, therefore you can only ever experience somethingness, therefore you are eternal.

No, that doesn't equal you being eternal. It equals your experience being limited to when you are alive which is why people are trying to extend their lives.... So they can have more experiences and maybe switch a career after they've spent a natural lifetime mastering one, or maybe experience what it's like to be young again or be rich or live long enough to travel off this crappy rock that encourages the eat or be eaten lifestyle, which is why i want my investments to succeed and i can enjoy my space yacht with my hot android GFs. (see how i got that back on topic  )

Perhaps you're looking at the situation too dogmatically. Deckard would surely confirm that memories (and reality) is something of a slippery fish. Impossible to confirm, absolutely.

But if it's impossible to experience nothingness, then it's impossible up experience nothingness.

Somethingness prevails.

[generalizethis]

A space station may not be the most interesting thing that you buy with your Monero. Have you considered immortality?

I've been researching Aubrey de Grey, Ray Kurzweil, Peter Thiel, Ellison, Brin, etc. and other people who are researching or supporting life extension. It seems that there are a lot of smart people who believe that we'll be able to realistically extend our lives to 120+ years. That will then be enough, for some of us, to survive until the point where technology allows us to extend our lives indefinitely.

But the first generation of immortals will need lots of money. Read more here:
http://www.newsweek.com/2015/03/13/silicon-valley-trying-make-humans-immortal-and-finding-some-success-311402.html

Newsflash: It's impossible to experience nothingness, therefore you can only ever experience somethingness, therefore you are eternal.

No, that doesn't equal you being eternal. It equals your experience being limited to when you are alive which is why people are trying to extend their lives.... So they can have more experiences and maybe switch a career after they've spent a natural lifetime mastering one, or maybe experience what it's like to be young again or be rich or live long enough to travel off this crappy rock that encourages the eat or be eaten lifestyle, which is why i want my investments to succeed and i can enjoy my space yacht with my hot android GFs. (see how i got that back on topic   )

Perhaps you're looking at the situation too dogmatically. Deckard would surely confirm that memories (and reality) is something of a slippery fish. Impossible to confirm, absolutely.

But if it's impossible to experience nothingness, then it's impossible up experience nothingness.

Somethingness prevails.

Perhaps your're being chimerical.

You need a brain ATM to experience something in your current human form, therefore if that dies, so do all your human experiences. I'm sure the dead atoms that fall off your body on a daily basis have some sort of experience, but that's not the experience I want to extend to if that's eternal life.

(sorry, smooth, please delete for being off topic--just needed to make my point clear)

[rangedriver]

A space station may not be the most interesting thing that you buy with your Monero. Have you considered immortality?

I've been researching Aubrey de Grey, Ray Kurzweil, Peter Thiel, Ellison, Brin, etc. and other people who are researching or supporting life extension. It seems that there are a lot of smart people who believe that we'll be able to realistically extend our lives to 120+ years. That will then be enough, for some of us, to survive until the point where technology allows us to extend our lives indefinitely.

But the first generation of immortals will need lots of money. Read more here:
http://www.newsweek.com/2015/03/13/silicon-valley-trying-make-humans-immortal-and-finding-some-success-311402.html

Newsflash: It's impossible to experience nothingness, therefore you can only ever experience somethingness, therefore you are eternal.

No, that doesn't equal you being eternal. It equals your experience being limited to when you are alive which is why people are trying to extend their lives.... So they can have more experiences and maybe switch a career after they've spent a natural lifetime mastering one, or maybe experience what it's like to be young again or be rich or live long enough to travel off this crappy rock that encourages the eat or be eaten lifestyle, which is why i want my investments to succeed and i can enjoy my space yacht with my hot android GFs. (see how i got that back on topic   )

Perhaps you're looking at the situation too dogmatically. Deckard would surely confirm that memories (and reality) is something of a slippery fish. Impossible to confirm, absolutely.

But if it's impossible to experience nothingness, then it's impossible up experience nothingness.

Somethingness prevails.

Perhaps your're being chimerical.

You need a brain ATM to experience something in your current human form, therefore if that dies, so do all your human experiences. I'm sure the dead atoms that fall off your body on a daily basis have some sort of experience, but that's not the experience I want to extend to if that's eternal life.

(sorry, smooth, please delete for being off topic--just needed to make my point clear)

Atoms, brains, humans - terms that relate to the religion of science. I'm talking absolute objectivity here. But I'm not going to get into an argument with a fellow Monero-dude.

Let's talk about this post-mortem. 

[generalizethis]

A space station may not be the most interesting thing that you buy with your Monero. Have you considered immortality?

I've been researching Aubrey de Grey, Ray Kurzweil, Peter Thiel, Ellison, Brin, etc. and other people who are researching or supporting life extension. It seems that there are a lot of smart people who believe that we'll be able to realistically extend our lives to 120+ years. That will then be enough, for some of us, to survive until the point where technology allows us to extend our lives indefinitely.

But the first generation of immortals will need lots of money. Read more here:
http://www.newsweek.com/2015/03/13/silicon-valley-trying-make-humans-immortal-and-finding-some-success-311402.html

Newsflash: It's impossible to experience nothingness, therefore you can only ever experience somethingness, therefore you are eternal.

No, that doesn't equal you being eternal. It equals your experience being limited to when you are alive which is why people are trying to extend their lives.... So they can have more experiences and maybe switch a career after they've spent a natural lifetime mastering one, or maybe experience what it's like to be young again or be rich or live long enough to travel off this crappy rock that encourages the eat or be eaten lifestyle, which is why i want my investments to succeed and i can enjoy my space yacht with my hot android GFs. (see how i got that back on topic   )

Perhaps you're looking at the situation too dogmatically. Deckard would surely confirm that memories (and reality) is something of a slippery fish. Impossible to confirm, absolutely.

But if it's impossible to experience nothingness, then it's impossible up experience nothingness.

Somethingness prevails.

Perhaps your're being chimerical.

You need a brain ATM to experience something in your current human form, therefore if that dies, so do all your human experiences. I'm sure the dead atoms that fall off your body on a daily basis have some sort of experience, but that's not the experience I want to extend to if that's eternal life.

(sorry, smooth, please delete for being off topic--just needed to make my point clear)

Atoms, brains, humans - terms that relate to the religion of science. I'm talking absolute objectivity here. But I'm not going to get into an argument with a fellow Monero-dude.

Let's talk about this post-mortem. 

Deal, if somehow the mechanisms responsible for language, hearing, and speaking survive brain and body termination.

[cryptodromeda]

It's impossible to experience nothingness, therefore you can only ever experience somethingness, therefore you are eternal.

Mindblown.

[iCEBREAKER]

A space station may not be the most interesting thing that you buy with your Monero. Have you considered immortality?

I've been researching Aubrey de Grey, Ray Kurzweil, Peter Thiel, Ellison, Brin, etc. and other people who are researching or supporting life extension. It seems that there are a lot of smart people who believe that we'll be able to realistically extend our lives to 120+ years. That will then be enough, for some of us, to survive until the point where technology allows us to extend our lives indefinitely.

But the first generation of immortals will need lots of money. Read more here:
http://www.newsweek.com/2015/03/13/silicon-valley-trying-make-humans-immortal-and-finding-some-success-311402.html

The sooner our research institutions are weened off taxpayer blood money the better.

I've always assumed the Satoshis are waiting to use their fortune to fund Big Science for the 'Diamond Age' nanotech, life extension, and space colonization trifecta. 

http://alcor.org/AboutAlcor/meetdirectors.html#merkle

[vokain]

It's impossible to experience nothingness, therefore you can only ever experience somethingness, therefore you are eternal.

Mindblown.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ein_Sof

My roommate asked me a few weeks ago why before, if before this, there was nothing, then why isn't there just still just nothing. It's impossible to experience nothingness because to know what nothingness actually is, one needs something to realize so. Pisceanistically, it's like, how are we to know one, without the other? How are we to understand the value of private ledgers, without public ledgers?


"When you have assimilated these two sets of Equations, when you have understood how 0 = 2 is the unique, the simple, and the necessary solution of the Riddle of the Universe, there will be, in a sense, little more for you to learn about the Theory of Magick."
http://hermetic.com/crowley/magick-without-tears/mwt_05.html

[jehst]

I've always assumed the Satoshis are waiting to use their fortune to fund Big Science for the 'Diamond Age' nanotech, life extension, and space colonization trifecta.  

http://alcor.org/AboutAlcor/meetdirectors.html#merkle

To me, this aspect is the single most interesting thing about cryptocurrencies. If cryptocurrencies reach a total market cap in the trillions, we're not just going to have a spectacle of neckbeards riding around in Ferraris. We're also suddenly going to have hundreds of new billionaires (2015 purchasing power): visionary billionaires who will then help shape human civilization by choosing what companies they will start and what research they will fund. I don't know exactly who Satoshi is or what they(?) will do with their fortune, but I'm almost 100% sure that it's going to be much better for humanity than what the members of the House of Saud or the Koch Brothers or the Waltons are doing with theirs.

2025: One thousand new technophile billionaires using their fortunes to improve our lives.

[ArticMine]

...

If bitcoin rockets to $1000 and XMR stays flat at $0.50, then you can hold BTC now and get more XMR at .0005. Realistically, I can't see it going below .0005.

But you can't wait until .0005 to start buying because the volume won't be there.  

The historical evidence is that during a Bitcoin boom alt-coins for the most part have increased sharply in value with respect to Bitcoin. The current low price of Monero with respect to Bitcoin is the market not factoring in the development that has occurred in Monero over the last year. This is likely due the very old "official" binaries. The 0.8.8.6 version of Monero (the last official binaries) require over 9.2 GB in RAM. Seriously how many computers can handle that? Now compare that to the memory requirements of a Monero binary that is complied from the current source code.

My take is that staying "short" on Monero at this point in time is playing with fire.

[smooth]

It is a down trend if you look at the peak at April, 2015 and August 2015. Down trend for nearly a year now.

https://poloniex.com/exchange#btc_xmr
Block 30m
Expand the chart to the beginning

Yes, $6 to $0.50 is quite a downtrend I suppose. Guess my timeline's a bit shorter than yours for now 

Those very early prices were pretty meaningless. The float was tiny and the volatility massive. The highest prices were achieved during the "mintpal pump" which was based on the rather (or, rather, very) questionable premise that trading on that now-defunct exchange would somehow make the coin worth more, when it was already trading on other at least two other major exchanges. (I can see the first or second exchange being worth something, but not the third).

Now even putting that aside, there is a bit of a downtrend, though market cap has remained fairly steady (less than 20% below ATH in fact). The market has accepted all the new coins, but only at a lower price per coin. Maybe that isn't great but it is respectable.

[dnaleor]

Could there be a realistic way where people are given eternal life by maybe "downloading" your conscious somewhere and then after you die you can "reprogram" it into something else which allows you keep living even longer?  Given that science and technology has gotten extremely complex, I think that this is possible as well.  

the problem with this is the "gap" between you dying and the uploading on the device. I just can't be persuaded that the copy will be me, although maybe that copy will tell everyone he is me.
it can even get more crazy: if you can "reprogram" a device with your consciousness, it is perfectly possible to make multiple copies of "you".
This is certainly not a solution...

edit: immortality is imho impossible because chaos theory. It's like a perpetuum mobile on a universal scale.

Slightly on topic: even the XMR blockchain will not be able to be intact forever:
What is the chance that at least one copy will be preserved forever?
Because there is a non-zero chance that all copies of the blockchain will be destroyed in the future, monero isn't "immortal".
Sad but true.

[iCEBREAKER]

The historical evidence is that during a Bitcoin boom alt-coins for the most part have increased sharply in value with respect to Bitcoin. The current low price of Monero with respect to Bitcoin is the market not factoring in the development that has occurred in Monero over the last year. This is likely due the very old "official" binaries. The 0.8.8.6 version of Monero (the last official binaries) require over 9.2 GB in RAM. Seriously how many computers can handle that? Now compare that to the memory requirements of a Monero binary that is complied from the current source code.

My take is that staying "short" on Monero at this point in time is playing with fire.

The market has had plenty of time to anticipate and price in the new version.  I expect a crash, as the normal 'buy the rumor, sell the news' thing plays out.

There are plenty of XMR available to borrow.  Hard to get caught short when the interest rates are so low you can easily afford to wait until prices fall.

I've never seen such low total bids.  ~30BTC in dumps between here and 0.0001.  Yikes!   

Looks like we're going to retest last year's all time low of 0.00091.  Get ready to ride the Monerocoaster!

[ArticMine]

...

Now even putting that aside, there is a bit of a downtrend, though market cap has remained fairly steady (less than 20% below ATH in fact). The market has accepted all the new coins, but only at a lower price per coin. Maybe that isn't great but it is respectable.

Actually by this measure Monero has done very well. If we compare peak market cap since June 2014 to current market cap.

Monero      -20%

Ethereum     -47%
Litecoin        -49%
Dodgecoin   -53%
Namecoin    -68%
Dash            -70%

What we a measuring here is the overall fall in alt-coin prices as the price of Bitcoin was falling from its 2013 peak.

[ArticMine]

...
The market has had plenty of time to anticipate and price in the new version.  I expect a crash, as the normal 'buy the rumor, sell the news' thing plays out.

There are plenty of XMR available to borrow.  Hard to get caught short when the interest rates are so low you can easily afford to wait until prices fall.

I've never seen such low total bids.  ~30BTC in dumps between here and 0.0001.  Yikes!  

Looks like we're going to retest last year's all time low of 0.00091.  Get ready to ride the Monerocoaster!

Waiting until prices fall, with "strong hands", only makes sense if the long term fundamentals are very poor which is simply not the case with Monero. Furthermore if even a small percentage of the "big block crowd" in Bitcoin decide that Monero is the solution to the 1 MB blocksize limit in Bitcoin then anyone caught short Monero is in for a real shock.

Edit: Many in the market do not believe that the new version is going to come out, and do not have the skills and / or the inclination to compile code from source and test the improvements for themselves.

[iCEBREAKER]

if even a small percentage of the "big block crowd" in Bitcoin decide that Monero is the solution to the 1 MB blocksize limit in Bitcoin then anyone caught short Monero is in for a real shock.

A small percent is all I would expect.

Many among the "big block crowd" are Bitcoin Maximalist Monopolist Supremacists (EG Frap.doc) and despise any threat to their One True Coin.

The BBC also hates the Core small blockers who have said nice things about Monero (Peter The Todd, Gmax, thermos, wlad).

[XMRpromotions]

if even a small percentage of the "big block crowd" in Bitcoin decide that Monero is the solution to the 1 MB blocksize limit in Bitcoin then anyone caught short Monero is in for a real shock.

A small percent is all I would expect.

Many among the "big block crowd" are Bitcoin Maximalist Monopolist Supremacists (EG Frap.doc) and despise any threat to their One True Coin.

The BBC also hates the Core small blockers who have said nice things about Monero (Peter The Todd, Gmax, thermos, wlad).

A small percentage deciding to hedge is all that is needed for a huge impact. Just compare the BTC and XMR market caps.

[dEBRUYNE]

The historical evidence is that during a Bitcoin boom alt-coins for the most part have increased sharply in value with respect to Bitcoin. The current low price of Monero with respect to Bitcoin is the market not factoring in the development that has occurred in Monero over the last year. This is likely due the very old "official" binaries. The 0.8.8.6 version of Monero (the last official binaries) require over 9.2 GB in RAM. Seriously how many computers can handle that? Now compare that to the memory requirements of a Monero binary that is complied from the current source code.

My take is that staying "short" on Monero at this point in time is playing with fire.

The market has had plenty of time to anticipate and price in the new version.  I expect a crash, as the normal 'buy the rumor, sell the news' thing plays out.

There are plenty of XMR available to borrow.  Hard to get caught short when the interest rates are so low you can easily afford to wait until prices fall.

I've never seen such low total bids.  ~30BTC in dumps between here and 0.0001.  Yikes!  

Looks like we're going to retest last year's all time low of 0.00091.  Get ready to ride the Monerocoaster!

I would agree with you if there actually was a date set for the release. Then it would certainly be buy the rumour sell the news (just look at what happened with bitshares 2.0). However, since there is no date set (yet), I think it will not have this effect. Also, bear in mind that the current (old) binaries are barely usable for new users. Thus, newcomers currently will get stuck on the old binaries (assuming they download them and don't use the windows beta or compile themselves), whereas with 0.9 they certainly won't get stuck and will probably have a way better first experience.