[XMR] Monero Speculation

[opennux]

I don't really know if there is a proposition for this kind of idea or not already... but what do you guys suggest the "cryptonote" or XMR community in general, should use as a platform to help ease the transition of cryptocurrencies in the real world monetary system? Do you think we need to have another form of ideology along with secure, anonymous transactions?  Even though "Anarchy" is a type of ideology, it really is pretty fague to me TBH... there is no real structure for how cities, institutions, etc. should be ran "by the people".  I feel if we had some common ground on a type of ideology we can all agree on, then the cause for XMR would seem to serve a bigger purpose than to just have really anonymous transactions in a capitalist/consumer world.

Just been pondering this recently and didn't know what you guys thought about it?

Don't politicise it. There are no reason to do so. In fact, there are many reasons not to, amongst them not bifurcating and balkanising the community.

No need to label it (no one would agree anyway).

It's technology, not politics. Whatever YOU want to use it for is up to you.

[kazuki49]

This is worrisome -> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3zrvs8/bitpay_is_actively_cooperating_with_chainalysis/

... as if the blocksize issue alone was not enough to worry.

As someone really interested in the prospects of true e-cash and what a digital currency can bring to the world and the masses of oppressed people I feel very fortunate to have found Monero this early, the Bitcoin situation will only get worse I'm afraid.

[americanpegasus]

I'm no stranger to being strange, and thankfully it is obvious to me that Monero will slowly eat at world finance the same way that Bitcoin has. 
 
The trouble is just getting the initial universe large enough to be attractive as a financial network, but we are making progress. 
 
Kazuki, being a smart and worldly soul, do you think one should hold an even mix of Bitcoin and Monero or are you abandoning Bitcoin for more advanced projects? 
 
Personally I'm hoping for a balance of all three (maybe four) of my cryptosavings, from a USD perspective. 
 
I can't get over how happy I am that 0.9 is officially out.  Once I get home I promise to download and play with it - the time has come for me to learn how to manage my own private keys using some test amounts. 

[iCEBREAKER]

Nice 27k market dump today.

These weren't borrowed coins.  Somebody needed quick cash, probably because they were long something that got crushed.

IOW, 27k XMR moved in a flash from weak to (relatively) strong hands.

Congrats to the lucky bidders who caught that falling knife!   

I hope we revisit the 0.0009s one more time, so my stinky-skunk bids get filled.   

[kazuki49]

I'm no stranger to being strange, and thankfully it is obvious to me that Monero will slowly eat at world finance the same way that Bitcoin has.  
  
The trouble is just getting the initial universe large enough to be attractive as a financial network, but we are making progress.  
  
Kazuki, being a smart and worldly soul, do you think one should hold an even mix of Bitcoin and Monero or are you abandoning Bitcoin for more advanced projects?  
  
Personally I'm hoping for a balance of all three (maybe four) of my cryptosavings, from a USD perspective.  
  
I can't get over how happy I am that 0.9 is officially out.  Once I get home I promise to download and play with it - the time has come for me to learn how to manage my own private keys using some test amounts.  

My approach is unconventional, right now I hold no Bitcoins anymore, I recommend people doing what they feel like, I'm fond of rpietila comments about kelly and hedging so the safest bet would keep holding more bitcoins than moneroj but I'm personally not interested in participating in bitcoin as an user anymore and I don't trade. Keep holding bitcoin and some moneroj (note that ''some'' at this stage is like 5 figures xmr, because monero is very undervalued imo) at worst you'll be able to buy more cheap monero and not losing much if something happens to monero, yeah if you are heavy in crypto but conservative keep bitcoins and moneroj, I've made a decision to bite the ''risk'' because I still think monero is the best e-cash the world has seen and the community is top notch. I would really like the see a world Monero is where Bitcoin is at now, it would not have problems going further because the fundamentals are a lot stronger than with Bitcoin (and hash-rate is relative to the price so I don't count as a weak fundamental).

[dEBRUYNE]

Nice 27k market dump today.

These weren't borrowed coins.  Somebody needed quick cash, probably because they were long something that got crushed.

IOW, 27k XMR moved in a flash from weak to (relatively) strong hands.

Congrats to the lucky bidders who caught that falling knife!   

I hope we revisit the 0.0009s one more time, so my stinky-skunk bids get filled.   

It is somewhat positive that most of the decline can be attributed to this dumper and another 7k dumper. Few months ago it was just dumping non stop when Bitcoin went up. However, we haven't broke the altcoin-peg / correlation yet.

[iCEBREAKER]

Nice 27k market dump today.

These weren't borrowed coins.  Somebody needed quick cash, probably because they were long something that got crushed.

IOW, 27k XMR moved in a flash from weak to (relatively) strong hands.

Congrats to the lucky bidders who caught that falling knife!   

I hope we revisit the 0.0009s one more time, so my stinky-skunk bids get filled.   

It is somewhat positive that most of the decline can be attributed to this dumper and another 7k dumper. Few months ago it was just dumping non stop when Bitcoin went up. However, we haven't broke the altcoin-peg / correlation yet.

Way too early to reasonably expect XMR to have already broken that peg.

We need a Grayscale-type GXMR to soak up coins and keep them permanently off the market, like GBTC does for Bitcoin.

Amino's proposed dev-bond could also fulfill that function.

But first we need to develop the local BTCT economy.  Like LTC did, back in the good old days.

I've got a pile of stuff I can sell for XMR.  Silver bullion, silver collectibles, colloidal silver, comic books.

We just need a trusted escrow guy.  I'd suggest smoothie, but he's probably too busy.  Any volunteers?

[saddambitcoin]

I wouldn't mind providing escrow services for a 1% fee. I'd say I'm pretty trustworthy when it comes to holding other people's XMR.

I believe dnaleor has also provided escrow services in the past, if he is interested.

[GreekBitcoin]

Like a simple craiglist page but for xmr?

I guess i have some stuff to sell too.

[smooth]

I wouldn't mind providing escrow services for a 1% fee. I'd say I'm pretty trustworthy when it comes to holding other people's XMR.

I believe dnaleor has also provided escrow services in the past, if he is interested.

Maybe the best approach is to have a list of escrows and they can divide up the effort. There are definitely several trustworthy people within the Monero community who would want to support something like that if it weren't a high workload.

It's an interesting idea, sort of craigslist/ebay/openbazaar/etc.

[iCEBREAKER]

Like a simple craiglist page but for xmr?

I guess i have some stuff to sell too.

Oh lord how I miss Bitmit.   

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitmit

It was too perfect and awesome to exist in this shitty world.   

[saddambitcoin]

Bitmit was awesome, but centralized escrow proved to be a problem for it, both with theft and regulation concerns.

Perhaps a combination of user feedback + independent escrows would be the perfect solution. Escrow providers could set their own fees and would receive feedback, so buyers/sellers could choose accordingly. Additionally, the site itself would hold no funds so it would not be vulnerable to theft.

[GingerAle]

I'm selling custom built miners. Or I can build them and run them in my basement for a fee. Or you can just send me monero and I'll keep mining monero. Something with mining. I know of at least 2 individuals that have hardware that they have silent because their electricity costs are too high and/or they can't find a place to house their stuff.

and eventually I'll have this monerodo device done which I'll be selling for monero, obviously. Now I'm debating if I should have the software update via github pull / compile or just download "official" binaries. Thoughts? I could also just have it checkout some version... though I've found it a pain to un-checkout things, or go back to head or whatever.

oh yeah. I speculate bananas.

[TrueCryptonaire]

I'm selling custom built miners. Or I can build them and run them in my basement for a fee. Or you can just send me monero and I'll keep mining monero. Something with mining. I know of at least 2 individuals that have hardware that they have silent because their electricity costs are too high and/or they can't find a place to house their stuff.

and eventually I'll have this monerodo device done which I'll be selling for monero, obviously. Now I'm debating if I should have the software update via github pull / compile or just download "official" binaries. Thoughts? I could also just have it checkout some version... though I've found it a pain to un-checkout things, or go back to head or whatever.

oh yeah. I speculate bananas.

The bold part basically tells the whole story: you pay 1 Monero for a miner, the miner mines and pays you 0.9 XMR and you take a risk that you might even not get even 0.9 XMR.. Sounds like a deal to me.

[dnaleor]

Bitmit was awesome, but centralized escrow proved to be a problem for it, both with theft and regulation concerns.

Perhaps a combination of user feedback + independent escrows would be the perfect solution. Escrow providers could set their own fees and would receive feedback, so buyers/sellers could choose accordingly. Additionally, the site itself would hold no funds so it would not be vulnerable to theft.

would be a very good idea imho. We could easily start a subreddit for this and have a list of escrows as pinned post.
People can contact escrows or just post their offer. if the other party wants an escrow he can contact one, or an escrow can just propose himself.

edit2: reputation can be managed by having a single reply in the escrow thread for every escrow and people can post their experiences in that thread.

edit: a website would be more professional of course, but that can take some time until, someone puts it online.

[cryptodromeda]

Bitmit was awesome, but centralized escrow proved to be a problem for it, both with theft and regulation concerns.

Perhaps a combination of user feedback + independent escrows would be the perfect solution. Escrow providers could set their own fees and would receive feedback, so buyers/sellers could choose accordingly. Additionally, the site itself would hold no funds so it would not be vulnerable to theft.

would be a very good idea imho. We could easily start a subreddit for this and have a list of escrows as pinned post.
People can contact escrows or just post their offer. if the other party wants an escrow he can contact one, or an escrow can just propose himself.

edit2: reputation can be managed by having a single reply in the escrow thread for every escrow and people can post their experiences in that thread.

edit: a website would be more professional of course, but that can take some time until, someone puts it online.

Maybe start off with just a dedicated thread here on BCT, as a seemingly empty subreddit can often send out the wrong message.

Allow the thread to build up steam and it will act as a perpetual advert which can then be used as a springboard for something more permanent elsewhere.

[dEBRUYNE]

Funding required for implementation of Ring Confidential Transactions (CT) (by Shen Noether aka NobleSir), which will also enable the implementation of ring multi-signature!

https://forum.getmonero.org/7/open-tasks/2450/ring-ct-c-crypto

Shen's comment regarding ring multi-signature:

Yes - there are a couple of ways to go with the multisig - once the MG sigs are there, the method detailed in section 4.4 here https://www.overleaf.com/read/qzgytbyyxvyf is available (probably even without the CT part of, but then you have to be more careful with amounts).

All updates, whitepapers etc. regarding Ring Confidential Transactions (CT) can be found here ->  https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3pw30d/ringct_for_monero_updated_versions/

[dEBRUYNE]

Fully funded!

[bitebits]

Funding required for implementation of Ring Confidential Transactions (CT) (by Shen Noether aka NobleSir), which will also enable the implementation of ring multi-signature!

https://forum.getmonero.org/7/open-tasks/2450/ring-ct-c-crypto

Shen's comment regarding ring multi-signature:

Yes - there are a couple of ways to go with the multisig - once the MG sigs are there, the method detailed in section 4.4 here https://www.overleaf.com/read/qzgytbyyxvyf is available (probably even without the CT part of, but then you have to be more careful with amounts).

All updates, whitepapers etc. regarding Ring Confidential Transactions (CT) can be found here ->  https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3pw30d/ringct_for_monero_updated_versions/

Absolutely incredible, awesome news! It is hard to even imagine the potential new use cases and anonymity this will add to Monero.

[phishead]

I'm selling custom built miners. Or I can build them and run them in my basement for a fee. Or you can just send me monero and I'll keep mining monero. Something with mining. I know of at least 2 individuals that have hardware that they have silent because their electricity costs are too high and/or they can't find a place to house their stuff.

and eventually I'll have this monerodo device done which I'll be selling for monero, obviously. Now I'm debating if I should have the software update via github pull / compile or just download "official" binaries. Thoughts? I could also just have it checkout some version... though I've found it a pain to un-checkout things, or go back to head or whatever.

oh yeah. I speculate bananas.

Just curious, what's the cost of the miners you are building, and how are they different from say, your average mining computer?