KanoPool since 2014 🐈 - PPLNS and Solo 0.5% fee - Worldwide - 2438 blocks

[-ck]

So the truth is surfacing. Need more exposure about what Ant is doing.

https://m.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4py5df/so_f2pool_antpool_btcc_pool_are_actually_one_pool/?utm_source=mweb_redirect&compact=true

Hanlon's razor yet again. Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice. There's no intentional malice involved here; they're all on the same side of the GFW and SPV mine to each other so that even if there's incompetence on their part in getting actual blocks propagated outside the GFW for a while, they will go on mining on each others' blocks.

[firetreeactual]

So the truth is surfacing. Need more exposure about what Ant is doing.

https://m.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4py5df/so_f2pool_antpool_btcc_pool_are_actually_one_pool/?utm_source=mweb_redirect&compact=true

interesting read.  The three P.O.S.  pools will crash the coin out if they are really doing it exactly as accused.

Which means the un - named Alt coin will be boosted by this behavior  ( I know no ALT COINS to be mentioned).

I know I have done a 2 year long set of diff threads giving away a lot of btc for a few reasons,

 one of which was to track the diff  moves publicly.

    So diff manipulation seems pretty factual based on my studies of diff since Summer of 2014.
 Not so sure what can be done since asic's are mostly built in China.

Agreed, Phil. I don't think they're going to blow it up, however. My rather simplistic view (based on several decades of behavioral science) is that, despite my personal philosophical view re BTC, we're talking about money.   IMHO it's unreasonable to assume that the majority of CN entities involved are in cahoots. Human nature just simply doesn't work that way most of the time, regardless of the culture. Collusion is possible, perhaps probable, and most especially when you have logistical control of the mechanism (ie., hardware). OTOH, it is just as likely to be plain greed overpowering logic (ie., being stupid). I've been involved since 2009 (used to mine on an HP laptop in those days) and have informally done the same sort of studies with the same conclusions.

It would be really nice if some US company with existing infrastructure to build chips/boards, etc. could figure out a way to do a 16nm device at maybe 1.4-1.5KW draw and make some bucks on it at a retail of maybe US$2K. We would all, I think, be so pleased. It seems likely they could get ROI on it without too much difficulty.

I just read ck's post...agreed...Occam's/Ockham's Razor is always there...my mentor in forensics termed it "If you hear hoofbeats in the park, assume horse rather than zebra." Well...unless you live in rural Africa, of course...and, that's my point as well. Another reason why I mine here.

[citronick]

So the truth is surfacing. Need more exposure about what Ant is doing.

https://m.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4py5df/so_f2pool_antpool_btcc_pool_are_actually_one_pool/?utm_source=mweb_redirect&compact=true

interesting read.  The three P.O.S.  pools will crash the coin out if they are really doing it exactly as accused.

Which means the un - named Alt coin will be boosted by this behavior  ( I know no ALT COINS to be mentioned).

I know I have done a 2 year long set of diff threads giving away a lot of btc for a few reasons,

 one of which was to track the diff  moves publicly.

    So diff manipulation seems pretty factual based on my studies of diff since Summer of 2014.
 Not so sure what can be done since asic's are mostly built in China.

There was a good discussion on "51% attack" starts at 45:18, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-ErmmDQRFs

This was 7 months ago, in a BTC Hong Kong event... all the big China pools were represented in the Q&A panel (with English translation).

Good points raised in the panel. I might have bought the argument that all is fine and dandy but with Bitmain the only big ASICS player today, and when money and profits are concerned, greed will creep in, and the collusion event will happen sooner or later... perhaps this was exactly what happened in the last 24 hours to our pool.

This is just my humble opinion.

[firetreeactual]

Anyone else with dogsled miners (you'll know what I mean if you have them) been offline for an hour?

[citronick]

Anyone else with dogsled miners (you'll know what I mean if you have them) been offline for an hour?

offline as in, not even triggering backup pools?

[firetreeactual]

Anyone else with dogsled miners (you'll know what I mean if you have them) been offline for an hour?

offline as in, not even triggering backup pools?

Uh-huh. It's back up now (about 70 min down). I've asked for info re wha' hoppened. I don't have direct control on these; it probably wouldn't have made any difference in this instance anyway, though, which is why I haven't been concerned about it. Had to be either Internet or power. We'll see what they say.

[usukan]

to those with S9's that mine here - did you have to mod them to mine here or was the earlier reported issue something else?

[firetreeactual]

to those with S9's that mine here - did you have to mod them to mine here or was the earlier reported issue something else?

Kano took care of it. No worries. Mine on.  

EDIT: Just remember to reprogram the pool assignments. They come defaulted to one of the Antpoo thingies...

[usukan]

cool - thanks

to those with S9's that mine here - did you have to mod them to mine here or was the earlier reported issue something else?

Kano took care of it. No worries. Mine on.  

EDIT: Just remember to reprogram the pool assignments. They come defaulted to one of the Antpoo thingies...

[wmabern]

Okay folks....

One more block for the mining day!
Come on Lucky Seven!
I'm manifesting it right now!
 

[VRobb]

Love kano ckpool,  best place to point your miners hands down. Even with all the orphan bs this weekend if you've been mining here consistently and your 5nd is up you're way ahead of expected, or average, value.  Can't beat that with a stick! 
Keep calm and mine on!

[liveflipcoin]

sorry for the newbie question.. I know we get paid for every block found but what happens in between that? Like are we accumulating rewards/future payouts while we are waiting for the next block to be found? For example, if we find the first block in 4 hours but we don't find the second one til 8 hours later.. will the second block's payout be 2 times more than the first one?

[kano]

So the truth is surfacing. Need more exposure about what Ant is doing.

https://m.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4py5df/so_f2pool_antpool_btcc_pool_are_actually_one_pool/?utm_source=mweb_redirect&compact=true

interesting read.  The three P.O.S.  pools will crash the coin out if they are really doing it exactly as accused.

Which means the un - named Alt coin will be boosted by this behavior  ( I know no ALT COINS to be mentioned).

I know I have done a 2 year long set of diff threads giving away a lot of btc for a few reasons,

 one of which was to track the diff  moves publicly.

    So diff manipulation seems pretty factual based on my studies of diff since Summer of 2014.
 Not so sure what can be done since asic's are mostly built in China.

Agreed, Phil. I don't think they're going to blow it up, however. My rather simplistic view (based on several decades of behavioral science) is that, despite my personal philosophical view re BTC, we're talking about money.  
...

Indeed - that's the main point.
Bitcoin IS money, and as with all money, most people are controlled by it.

However, since I'm in the mood to do so, I'll bring up some points that make this even more interesting.

Firstly, and most importantly, if anyone hasn't realised it yet I don't advocate coding changes into bitcoin to resolve 'perceived problems'.
If you consider there is a problem, then you get the support of others to make that problem insignificant, or you educate those causing the problem.

On the other side of the GFW, indeed the pools there make their decisions based on short sighted greed.
SPV mining proves that.

On this side of the GFW, you have the same situation.
Bitminter, Slush and eligius all have, over various times, a large % of EMPTY blocks and low size blocks.
The EMPTY block discussion has a whole thread about that ...
But I will add one point about it. For those 3 pools, they each have a different strategy for dealing with malcontent about EMPTY blocks:
eligius: "Yeah so what"
Slush: "..." (silence) or "sorry that was a bug we fixed it" (so why is it still happening?)
Bitminter: "No we don't" (lying about it - yes he and I had an argument about it long ago, and he lied about it)

The halving will make this issue more obvious, since if you look at our Block Statistics table, the 50 block 102% MeanTx% number, with a 12.5BTC reward, would be ... 104%

But, even the Bitcoin Devs fall CLEARLY under the header of greed.
Their aim for a long time has been the Lightning network.
Why? Coz it takes mining fees away from miners and give them to centrally controlled entities.
The first step in that path is SegWit, then the next step is the Lightning network.

Bitcoin's design is to replace block rewards with txn fees.
The devs don't want to be involved in mining, they want the fees without having to mine.
Fortunately, as far as I see it, their ideas will fail.

SegWit - unnecessary and bad for storage.
I was amused at 2 comments by gmaxwell about this
1) It doesn't increase size, oh except only by a little bit ... per transaction
Well 2 points, yes a little bit, is an increase, so, saying it isn't is a lie, and per transaction is a lot.
Secondly, no it's more than that, he's ignored something that (again) clearly shows he has limited understanding of computers: DB storage.
If you have to store 2 things, you need twice the amount of DB index and key data.
2) He can't code well enough to produce a maleability solution without segwit. His coding ability is limited, as he has stated himself.

Lightning is pointless and no one in their right mind would use it.
Firstly, it's pure centralisation.
Secondly, as an example, why would Starbucks want to make an alt-coin that's controlled by bitcoin, when they could have their own blockchain out of bitcoin's control?
They could have starbuckcoins that have a 'fixed value' at starbucks and you buy them online with $ or BTC or whatever.
With sidechains, as far as I can see, it's just an alt-coin with loss of some control for starbucks, and no gain.

[kano]

sorry for the newbie question.. I know we get paid for every block found but what happens in between that? Like are we accumulating rewards/future payouts while we are waiting for the next block to be found? For example, if we find the first block in 4 hours but we don't find the second one til 8 hours later.. will the second block's payout be 2 times more than the first one?

https://kano.is/index.php?k=payout

[liveflipcoin]

got it. Thanks. I can smell another block coming up!

[wmabern]

sorry for the newbie question.. I know we get paid for every block found but what happens in between that? Like are we accumulating rewards/future payouts while we are waiting for the next block to be found? For example, if we find the first block in 4 hours but we don't find the second one til 8 hours later.. will the second block's payout be 2 times more than the first one?

Payouts/rewards do not work like that. I can't imagine any pool could operate like that.
The only thing we are "accumulating" between blocks are block confirmations up until a block has received 101 confirmations. Then that block has matured and will be queued for payout on the next block we find.

The one thing that "may" increase your payouts on subsequent blocks is if your 5ND has increased to it's full potential or if your block % was to increase due to a decrease in pool hash rate. You'll get a higher % of the block reward.

If any of this is wrong, anyone please feel free to correct me.

[firetreeactual]

So the truth is surfacing. Need more exposure about what Ant is doing.

https://m.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4py5df/so_f2pool_antpool_btcc_pool_are_actually_one_pool/?utm_source=mweb_redirect&compact=true

interesting read.  The three P.O.S.  pools will crash the coin out if they are really doing it exactly as accused.

Which means the un - named Alt coin will be boosted by this behavior  ( I know no ALT COINS to be mentioned).

I know I have done a 2 year long set of diff threads giving away a lot of btc for a few reasons,

 one of which was to track the diff  moves publicly.

    So diff manipulation seems pretty factual based on my studies of diff since Summer of 2014.
 Not so sure what can be done since asic's are mostly built in China.

Agreed, Phil. I don't think they're going to blow it up, however. My rather simplistic view (based on several decades of behavioral science) is that, despite my personal philosophical view re BTC, we're talking about money.  
...

Indeed - that's the main point.
Bitcoin IS money, and as with all money, most people are controlled by it.

However, since I'm in the mood to do so, I'll bring up some points that make this even more interesting.

Firstly, and most importantly, if anyone hasn't realised it yet I don't advocate coding changes into bitcoin to resolve 'perceived problems'.
If you consider there is a problem, then you get the support of others to make that problem insignificant, or you educate those causing the problem.

On the other side of the GFW, indeed the pools there make their decisions based on short sighted greed.
SPV mining proves that.

On this side of the GFW, you have the same situation.
Bitminter, Slush and eligius all have, over various times, a large % of EMPTY blocks and low size blocks.
The EMPTY block discussion has a whole thread about that ...
But I will add one point about it. For those 3 pools, they each have a different strategy for dealing with malcontent about EMPTY blocks:
eligius: "Yeah so what"
Slush: "..." (silence) or "sorry that was a bug we fixed it" (so why is it still happening?)
Bitminter: "No we don't" (lying about it - yes he and I had an argument about it long ago, and he lied about it)

The halving will make this issue more obvious, since if you look at our Block Statistics table, the 50 block 102% MeanTx% number, with a 12.5BTC reward, would be ... 104%

But, even the Bitcoin Devs fall CLEARLY under the header of greed.
Their aim for a long time has been the Lightning network.
Why? Coz it takes mining fees away from miners and give them to centrally controlled entities.
The first step in that path is SegWit, then the next step is the Lightning network.

Bitcoin's design is to replace block rewards with txn fees.
The devs don't want to be involved in mining, they want the fees without having to mine.
Fortunately, as far as I see it, their ideas will fail.

SegWit - unnecessary and bad for storage.
I was amused at 2 comments by gmaxwell about this
1) It doesn't increase size, oh except only by a little bit ... per transaction
Well 2 points, yes a little bit, is an increase, so, saying it isn't is a lie, and per transaction is a lot.
Secondly, no it's more than that, he's ignored something that (again) clearly shows he has limited understanding of computers: DB storage.
If you have to store 2 things, you need twice the amount of DB index and key data.
2) He can't code well enough to produce a maleability solution without segwit. His coding ability is limited, as he has stated himself.

Lightning is pointless and no one in their right mind would use it.
Firstly, it's pure centralisation.
Secondly, as an example, why would Starbucks want to make an alt-coin that's controlled by bitcoin, when they could have their own blockchain out of bitcoin's control?
They could have starbuckcoins that have a 'fixed value' at starbucks and you buy them online with $ or BTC or whatever.
With sidechains, as far as I can see, it's just an alt-coin with loss of some control for starbucks, and no gain.

Wowzers...I learn more here in five minutes than over several years of trying...FWIW...I agree. I had not much of an opinion on SegWit/Lightning, but only because I hadn't taken the time to study it. I don't have to, now, methinks.

[citronick]

got it. Thanks. I can smell another block coming up!

statistically, kano pool "luck" is very good, I think the best in all BTC pools -- see blocks statistics dashboard - numbers don't lie.

See the 50 and 100 block line....

a. 50 blocks in 11 days is true at lucky 124.84% of the time.

b. 100 blocks in 21.2 days is true at lucky 117.14% of the time (100 blocks in less than a month!)

c. with this kind of "luck" - I know where to park more hashpower after mid-July.

Sure we sometimes will have bad days and the dashboard will like house of horrors, red blocks 2-3 of them in one go even, orphans too - but the awesomeness of kano's coding and ck's ckpool backend - somehow has very good recovery track record -- see what happened in the last 24 hours or so.

[philipma1957]

So the truth is surfacing. Need more exposure about what Ant is doing.

https://m.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4py5df/so_f2pool_antpool_btcc_pool_are_actually_one_pool/?utm_source=mweb_redirect&compact=true

interesting read.  The three P.O.S.  pools will crash the coin out if they are really doing it exactly as accused.

Which means the un - named Alt coin will be boosted by this behavior  ( I know no ALT COINS to be mentioned).

I know I have done a 2 year long set of diff threads giving away a lot of btc for a few reasons,

 one of which was to track the diff  moves publicly.

    So diff manipulation seems pretty factual based on my studies of diff since Summer of 2014.
 Not so sure what can be done since asic's are mostly built in China.

Agreed, Phil. I don't think they're going to blow it up, however. My rather simplistic view (based on several decades of behavioral science) is that, despite my personal philosophical view re BTC, we're talking about money.  
...

Indeed - that's the main point.
Bitcoin IS money, and as with all money, most people are controlled by it.

However, since I'm in the mood to do so, I'll bring up some points that make this even more interesting.

Firstly, and most importantly, if anyone hasn't realised it yet I don't advocate coding changes into bitcoin to resolve 'perceived problems'.
If you consider there is a problem, then you get the support of others to make that problem insignificant, or you educate those causing the problem.

On the other side of the GFW, indeed the pools there make their decisions based on short sighted greed.
SPV mining proves that.

On this side of the GFW, you have the same situation.
Bitminter, Slush and eligius all have, over various times, a large % of EMPTY blocks and low size blocks.
The EMPTY block discussion has a whole thread about that ...
But I will add one point about it. For those 3 pools, they each have a different strategy for dealing with malcontent about EMPTY blocks:
eligius: "Yeah so what"
Slush: "..." (silence) or "sorry that was a bug we fixed it" (so why is it still happening?)
Bitminter: "No we don't" (lying about it - yes he and I had an argument about it long ago, and he lied about it)

The halving will make this issue more obvious, since if you look at our Block Statistics table, the 50 block 102% MeanTx% number, with a 12.5BTC reward, would be ... 104%

But, even the Bitcoin Devs fall CLEARLY under the header of greed.
Their aim for a long time has been the Lightning network.
Why? Coz it takes mining fees away from miners and give them to centrally controlled entities.
The first step in that path is SegWit, then the next step is the Lightning network.

Bitcoin's design is to replace block rewards with txn fees.
The devs don't want to be involved in mining, they want the fees without having to mine.
Fortunately, as far as I see it, their ideas will fail.

SegWit - unnecessary and bad for storage.
I was amused at 2 comments by gmaxwell about this
1) It doesn't increase size, oh except only by a little bit ... per transaction
Well 2 points, yes a little bit, is an increase, so, saying it isn't is a lie, and per transaction is a lot.
Secondly, no it's more than that, he's ignored something that (again) clearly shows he has limited understanding of computers: DB storage.
If you have to store 2 things, you need twice the amount of DB index and key data.
2) He can't code well enough to produce a maleability solution without segwit. His coding ability is limited, as he has stated himself.

Lightning is pointless and no one in their right mind would use it.
Firstly, it's pure centralisation.
Secondly, as an example, why would Starbucks want to make an alt-coin that's controlled by bitcoin, when they could have their own blockchain out of bitcoin's control?
They could have starbuckcoins that have a 'fixed value' at starbucks and you buy them online with $ or BTC or whatever.
With sidechains, as far as I can see, it's just an alt-coin with loss of some control for starbucks, and no gain.

  For me I am in a spot in life that making a ton of money with crypto coins is not necessary for me to do.
I am a little older 59. My wife and I are retired. We have a decent financial setup.  I can live without any BTC/ Alt coin income.    So I look at this as a unique chance for me to socialize with the entire world about something interesting. I am a Grade B at hundreds of different things in life and I like to think my only grade A skill is that of being able to be a grade B at hundreds of things.   A forum like this allows me to play at a dozen or more different things that I have an interest in.  Plus I actually make a few bucks not much but some.

  Every hobby I ever did before this cost me $$$.  This one is pretty good.   I don't think the bigger goal of getting the 40 acre solar array built will ever happen for more then one reason.   Mostly if I push all the people here in NJ into that direction it is a multi million dollar project to build a 40 acre array and it would no longer be 'fun' it would be a job.
New York made very strict laws about BTC I am just across the river in NJ  and the laws could show up here.  That would effectively be a death blow to a 40 acre solar array built to mine btc/alt coins.

  So I stay at a bigger hobby level then some people, but I do not cross into a small or medium business level. So money comes into play for me but not like it would if I were 30 years old and far from retirement. I do not think the three major Chinese pool owners  have the save belief system that I do.  But we are now going into btc 's second ½ ing and things will change.  The industry in fall of 2012 was very small in terms of gear.  Also coins were 8-12 bucks.  I was mining as high as 14gh in gpus.  at a time when the world had 21th  or 14000/21000000  =.000666667  of the world world was in my garage!

I used  5000 watts to do this.    

so to be on the same share of the network I now need 930th or 70 s-9's and about 91000 watts.   I am not going to do this.  

[Sierra8561]

Sounds like we should ban with antpool and not support segwit. Never thought I'd say band with antpool on anything.