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Author Topic: [BitcoinMax.com] Closed  (Read 178545 times)
Bitsky
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November 04, 2012, 08:45:17 AM
 #2321

Good points Bitsky.

If you did nothing wrong sounds like you'd be an ideal candidate to be interviewed with the SEC.  Bitching and moaning on these channels is going to do nothing to recover your funds.  Just ask the MyBitcoin, Bitcoinica, Bitfloor creditors.
"I sent a two-digit sum to a PPT who maybe forwarded it to Pirate. Oh, and I'm not even on your continent".
That's pretty much all the information I can give.

We gave money to strangers promising fantastic returns and paid the price for being that stupid.

Nobody will ever see a single coin of his invested money again. Ever ! No matter how many mails or pm you people write. I wish an angry bastard mod would lock this thread so we can move on.
I think most have realized that by now. My loss doesn't ruin me in the slightest (I'm annoyed though, sure). But I can't understand that even those who lost tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars are doing nothing. Talk about PR.

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November 05, 2012, 01:36:51 PM
 #2322

Correct. The difference would be that Pirate's scam has innocent victims while the PPT operator's scam has only one victim -- Pirate.
Not true. There's a good chance pirateat40 still has funds which could be recovered in order to partially refund investors - this has happened before in other ponzis - but if the PPT investors' funds were never invested in Pirate then there's nothing to recover.

Surely that wouldn't be a "completely separate scam" if people agreed to it? And there's no rational reason a person who invested in a PPT wouldn't be equally happy in a "synthetic PPT". You have to trust the PPT operator to pay you in either case.
If Pirate did actually pay out in full, how exactly would this hypothetical "synthetic PPT" be able to pay their investors though? They wouldn't, which means they had no intention to pay their investors regardless of whether Pirate fails, which means they themselves were operating a ponzi and scamming their investors.

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November 05, 2012, 02:33:53 PM
 #2323

Correct. The difference would be that Pirate's scam has innocent victims while the PPT operator's scam has only one victim -- Pirate.
Not true. There's a good chance pirateat40 still has funds which could be recovered in order to partially refund investors - this has happened before in other ponzis - but if the PPT investors' funds were never invested in Pirate then there's nothing to recover.
If there were a Pirate recovery, the PPT operators would have to pay that recovery to their customers, whether they got the funds from Pirate or not.

Quote
Surely that wouldn't be a "completely separate scam" if people agreed to it? And there's no rational reason a person who invested in a PPT wouldn't be equally happy in a "synthetic PPT". You have to trust the PPT operator to pay you in either case.
If Pirate did actually pay out in full, how exactly would this hypothetical "synthetic PPT" be able to pay their investors though? They wouldn't, which means they had no intention to pay their investors regardless of whether Pirate fails, which means they themselves were operating a ponzi and scamming their investors.
They would pay their investors out of their own funds. I'm not sure how you know they wouldn't. This actually would have been a really, *really* good bet. And you could cut your losses at any time by passing funds to Pirate. It's actually a very sensible business model.

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November 10, 2012, 03:27:22 PM
 #2324

Seems likely the SEC will go to the PPT operators, rather than the other way around. I would imagine that they are all concerned about their own liability in this.

In fact, the synthetic PPT wasn't hypothetical, it just closed before Pirate did. One might more properly refer to such a thing as a naked credit default swap. It was listed on MPEx, and yes it would have paid out of pocket in the event of a pirate default (effectively producing a short position on pirate for the issuer)

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November 17, 2012, 09:05:23 AM
 #2325

i know i am terribly late, and i will be ridiculed a lot, but are people actually still buying pirate debt? i have a 17 BTC bitcoinmax account to sell.

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November 17, 2012, 09:27:16 AM
 #2326

i know i am terribly late, and i will be ridiculed a lot, but are people actually still buying pirate debt? i have a 17 BTC bitcoinmax account to sell.

Pirate debt is worthless now, even the last people who bought for less than one % stopped buying it.
If you want to help to get something back from Pirate: Here is your chance:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=120759.0

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Bitsky
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February 24, 2013, 07:02:03 PM
 #2327

I still would like a PM with my last balance and deposits too.

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February 28, 2013, 09:43:35 PM
 #2328

Me too, but I doubt I will get it.

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February 28, 2013, 11:19:21 PM
 #2329

E&G, quit ignoring us!
I want my detailed info from my accounts, I am needing the info to build a legal case again Trendon.

Why would pirate's accomplice help you?

It's been clear for a long time which side he's on.

Dude practically drove the get-away car.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
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Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
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The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

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00null
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March 01, 2013, 03:07:12 AM
 #2330

E&G, quit ignoring us!
I want my detailed info from my accounts, I am needing the info to build a legal case again Trendon.
When you had an account with BitcoinMax your contract partner was Ian Grice (paybtc/E&G). So maybe it would be the best to build a legal case against Ian. That way he would at least most probably start to respond.
At one point in time Trendon wanted to have the accounts transfered to him. If Ian had complied, you could go direct for Tendon. Unfortunately, or deliberately?, Ian decided to protect Trendon and keep the accounts. Now Trendon has an additional shield, because only Ian had a contract with him, and Ian is apparently no longer interested. I assume he had profited enough.

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March 03, 2013, 01:19:16 AM
 #2331

E&G, quit ignoring us!
I want my detailed info from my accounts, I am needing the info to build a legal case again Trendon.
When you had an account with BitcoinMax your contract partner was Ian Grice (paybtc/E&G). So maybe it would be the best to build a legal case against Ian. That way he would at least most probably start to respond.
At one point in time Trendon wanted to have the accounts transfered to him. If Ian had complied, you could go direct for Tendon. Unfortunately, or deliberately?, Ian decided to protect Trendon and keep the accounts. Now Trendon has an additional shield, because only Ian had a contract with him, and Ian is apparently no longer interested. I assume he had profited enough.

Ian is almost certainly on an incredibly dodgy legal footing, having made huge profit by perpetuating fraud.

So yeah, I'd sue him if I'd been dumb enough to put money into this scheme.
Bitsky
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March 03, 2013, 09:12:52 AM
 #2332

Ian is almost certainly on an incredibly dodgy legal footing, having made huge profit by perpetuating fraud.

So yeah, I'd sue him if I'd been dumb enough to put money into this scheme.
When you had an account with BitcoinMax your contract partner was Ian Grice (paybtc/E&G). So maybe it would be the best to build a legal case against Ian. That way he would at least most probably start to respond.
At one point in time Trendon wanted to have the accounts transfered to him. If Ian had complied, you could go direct for Tendon. Unfortunately, or deliberately?, Ian decided to protect Trendon and keep the accounts. Now Trendon has an additional shield, because only Ian had a contract with him, and Ian is apparently no longer interested. I assume he had profited enough.
Or maybe he has not sent coins (all or just a part of them) to Pirate at all. If you knew right from the start that Pirate never planned to pay back, you could add your own scam on top of it. With the result that the blame goes to Pirate. He just needed to pay the bit of interest which investors requested, something that worked out fine as long as new investors joined; and that worked until Pirate defaulted. With his explanation of "coin ownership change" (see below) he broke the traceability of coins. So even if you could prove that an address holding BMax coins is under his control he could simply say that's because he invested the amount from his other wallet. With this in mind it would be foolish for him to officially acknowledge BMax balances because during a lawsuit it would show that his BST account had less coins than the sum investors sent to him.

an example of that would be let's say to start with i have 200 btc which i keep here:

BST wallet   100   i own 100% of these coins
My wallet   100   i own 100% of these coins

then, a bitcoinmax lender decides to invest 40 btc (sending it to MY wallet), the ownership changes immediately to:

BST wallet   100   i own 60 of these coins, and the bitcoinmax lender owns the other 40
My wallet   140   i own 100% of these coins

then if BST stops paying, i've lost 60 btc, and the bitcoinmax lender has lost 40 btc, even though the actual 40 bitcoins that he sent are still unspent in my own personal wallet.



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March 03, 2013, 11:07:38 AM
 #2333

Ian is almost certainly on an incredibly dodgy legal footing, having made huge profit by perpetuating fraud.

So yeah, I'd sue him if I'd been dumb enough to put money into this scheme.
When you had an account with BitcoinMax your contract partner was Ian Grice (paybtc/E&G). So maybe it would be the best to build a legal case against Ian. That way he would at least most probably start to respond.
At one point in time Trendon wanted to have the accounts transfered to him. If Ian had complied, you could go direct for Tendon. Unfortunately, or deliberately?, Ian decided to protect Trendon and keep the accounts. Now Trendon has an additional shield, because only Ian had a contract with him, and Ian is apparently no longer interested. I assume he had profited enough.
Or maybe he has not sent coins (all or just a part of them) to Pirate at all. If you knew right from the start that Pirate never planned to pay back, you could add your own scam on top of it. With the result that the blame goes to Pirate. He just needed to pay the bit of interest which investors requested, something that worked out fine as long as new investors joined; and that worked until Pirate defaulted. With his explanation of "coin ownership change" (see below) he broke the traceability of coins. So even if you could prove that an address holding BMax coins is under his control he could simply say that's because he invested the amount from his other wallet. With this in mind it would be foolish for him to officially acknowledge BMax balances because during a lawsuit it would show that his BST account had less coins than the sum investors sent to him.

an example of that would be let's say to start with i have 200 btc which i keep here:

BST wallet   100   i own 100% of these coins
My wallet   100   i own 100% of these coins

then, a bitcoinmax lender decides to invest 40 btc (sending it to MY wallet), the ownership changes immediately to:

BST wallet   100   i own 60 of these coins, and the bitcoinmax lender owns the other 40
My wallet   140   i own 100% of these coins

then if BST stops paying, i've lost 60 btc, and the bitcoinmax lender has lost 40 btc, even though the actual 40 bitcoins that he sent are still unspent in my own personal wallet.



This is very informative and is a great point. It's possible that E&G/Bitcoinmax was running their own ponzi and not actually investing any of the coins into BTS&T, or very small amounts into it.

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March 04, 2013, 06:35:41 PM
 #2334

The thing that bothers me the most is that he still posts all around the forum except for this one thread that he started.

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March 04, 2013, 07:19:23 PM
 #2335

The thing that bothers me the most is that he still posts all around the forum except for this one thread that he started.

I think that's called "Ignore the multi-million dollar fraud and hope it goes away"

And holy shit, only on here could people know someone's name and not chase them for that amount of money  Roll Eyes
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March 04, 2013, 07:40:20 PM
 #2336

The thing that bothers me the most is that he still posts all around the forum except for this one thread that he started.

I think that's called "Ignore the multi-million dollar fraud and hope it goes away"

And holy shit, only on here could people know someone's name and not chase them for that amount of money  Roll Eyes

It's amazing that this proven scammer/scam-enabler doesn't get tagged as such, yet Matthew gets it for daring to make an obviously fake joke bet.

Double-standard much BTCtalk?

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
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March 04, 2013, 07:45:41 PM
 #2337

The thing that bothers me the most is that he still posts all around the forum except for this one thread that he started.

I think that's called "Ignore the multi-million dollar fraud and hope it goes away"

And holy shit, only on here could people know someone's name and not chase them for that amount of money  Roll Eyes

It's amazing that this proven scammer/scam-enabler doesn't get tagged as such, yet Matthew gets it for daring to make an obviously fake joke bet.

Double-standard much BTCtalk?

I think he deleted his account


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March 04, 2013, 08:17:07 PM
 #2338

No, he just changed his name again.

In Bitcoinmax days he was "payb.tc". He went quiet for a while, then became "E&G"- (IanG- get it?) until this recent interest in this thread.

Now he has become "User25846".

He still has his 2673 post count, and "Hero" status.

I think it's really out of order that theymos is allowing him to pull this namechanging act every so often.

He always openly stated that if pirate defaulted any invested BTC would be lost, so I don't know if he deserves a scammer tag. But then, who can tell if he ever actually sent pirate any coins?

His contact info can be found here:  http://www.sitetrail.com/payb.tc

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March 04, 2013, 09:06:49 PM
 #2339

No, he just changed his name again.

In Bitcoinmax days he was "payb.tc". He went quiet for a while, then became "E&G"- (IanG- get it?) until this recent interest in this thread.

Now he has become "User25846".

He still has his 2673 post count, and "Hero" status.

I think it's really out of order that theymos is allowing him to pull this namechanging act every so often.

He always openly stated that if pirate defaulted any invested BTC would be lost, so I don't know if he deserves a scammer tag. But then, who can tell if he ever actually sent pirate any coins?

His contact info can be found here:  http://www.sitetrail.com/payb.tc

Code:
Registrant Ian Grice
86 Monash Rd
4000 Brisbane
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Phone: +61.414235463
Fax: +61.111111111
Identifier: grice513d

Technical Contact Ian Grice
86 Monash Rd
4000 Brisbane
QLD
Australia
Phone: +61.414235463
Fax: +61.111111111
Identifier: grice041z

Billing Contact Billing Department
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Admin. Contact Ian Grice
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AdamsNames Limited is registered as a Company in England and Wales.Registration Number: 3714632, VAT Registration Number: GB 731 9129 38.Registered Office: Reg'd Office: 9 Quy Court, Colliers Lane, Stow-cum-Quy, Cambridge, CB25 9AU, UKThe WebmasterURL:
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March 24, 2013, 09:55:25 PM
 #2340

Hi Pbc.t , hi Theymos,

isn´t it a bit risky to lift Zyks bitcointajk.org  ban ?

my promised silence -  6 months - luckily is over and even as I did let corrupt myself :

am back to show the light to all my fellow idiots.....right Erebus?  still waiting?

Cheers Zyk Grin Grin Grin

P.S. there always got to be a payout somewhere, even if its deep down under the doorsteps Shocked




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