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Author Topic: [BitcoinMax.com] Closed  (Read 178603 times)
RoloTonyBrownTown
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August 30, 2012, 02:41:13 AM
 #1761






by the way, it is very unlikely that i will be sending pirate the details of bitcoinmax accounts. i think this information is totally irrelevant to *my* account at BST.



While I agree, unfortunately there are also 370 odd people involved so it might not be that clear cut.

If people want you to pass on their info, you probably should.   Imagine if you don't pass it on and then pirate pays out all accounts that he has info for.  People will be.... displeased with you (and the amount of keyboard warriors on this cesspool of a forum is seemingly unlimited).

if he pays out all the accounts he has info for, then he'll be paying payb.tc 168300+ btc.

he has info for me, and my account.


Sure, but the way he's worded it, either he pays everyone individually, or not at all.

Legalities of that aside, it would be most annoying to got get paid because we haven't followed his rules, as unlikely as that is aside.

Tricky.

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kronosvl
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August 30, 2012, 03:37:30 AM
 #1762

you could make a yes/no question on bitcoinmax.com where you ask each user if he wants his info passed to pirate (and what will contain this info). after that is just a few minutes job to filter the users

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Lumpy
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August 30, 2012, 03:53:12 AM
 #1763

by the way, it is very unlikely that i will be sending pirate the details of bitcoinmax accounts. i think this information is totally irrelevant to *my* account at BST.

also, there's a limit to how much more time i can spend on this without getting paid... i also have to focus on where my next paycheque is going to come from.

Thanks for this.
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August 30, 2012, 03:59:37 AM
 #1764


if he pays out all the accounts he has info for, then he'll be paying payb.tc 168300+ btc.

he has info for me, and my account.


You're assuming he is following a rational set of rules.  In reality, he can just as easily make up whatever rules he wants--regardless of it anyone else seems they are reasonable or fair.

Was I helpful?  1TwmzX1wBxNF2qtAJRhdKmi2WyLZ5VHRs
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dlasher
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August 30, 2012, 04:07:21 AM
 #1765

if he pays out all the accounts he has info for, then he'll be paying payb.tc 168300+ btc.

he has info for me, and my account.

Exactly what I wanted to hear. Thank you.
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August 30, 2012, 04:11:51 AM
 #1766

In order to participate in BTCST I had to use the service of BitcoinMax since there was no way to do it directly with pirate.

Not true, you could of just opened one of his savings account directly. Though I think there was a minimum of 100btc deposit.

legolouman
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August 30, 2012, 04:20:55 AM
 #1767

In order to participate in BTCST I had to use the service of BitcoinMax since there was no way to do it directly with pirate.

Not true, you could of just opened one of his savings account directly. Though I think there was a minimum of 100btc deposit.

I heard that Pirate was referring people to use a pass through service.


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BCbitcoin
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August 30, 2012, 04:21:56 AM
 #1768

In order to participate in BTCST I had to use the service of BitcoinMax since there was no way to do it directly with pirate.

Not true, you could of just opened one of his savings account directly. Though I think there was a minimum of 100btc deposit.

No, you needed a referral. There were people offering 100btc just for the referral and not having any luck.
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August 30, 2012, 04:31:15 AM
 #1769


if he pays out all the accounts he has info for, then he'll be paying payb.tc 168300+ btc.

he has info for me, and my account.


You're assuming he is following a rational set of rules.  In reality, he can just as easily make up whatever rules he wants--regardless of it anyone else seems they are reasonable or fair.
I know, I think that Goat jumped the gun when he assumed that p@40 was going legal.
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August 30, 2012, 04:48:43 AM
 #1770

you could make a yes/no question on bitcoinmax.com where you ask each user if he wants his info passed to pirate (and what will contain this info). after that is just a few minutes job to filter the users

Seconded, I don't think this is an unreasonable request.  Seeing as how this information needs to come from a trusted source, it would alleviate the confusion of everyone trying to send in their info separately.
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August 30, 2012, 04:59:01 AM
 #1771

Where I come from you don't demand shit when you are in dept of someone.  Roll Eyes

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August 30, 2012, 06:17:38 AM
 #1772

it is very unlikely that i will be sending pirate the details of bitcoinmax accounts.

Do you mean that in the general sense of the complete account list, or even in the individual cases where you've been specifically asked to?  Disclaimer: I'd like my BTCMax info passed to pirate ASAP, by the Fri deadline at the very latest.

i think this information is totally irrelevant to *my* account at BST.

Do you mean your personal account or the totality of the BTCMax PPT?

Either way, pirate's announcement of default and statement of terms for the ensuing wind-down make that information *very* relevant. 

I hope you choose to accept the terms of the wind-down, so we (your customers) don't get left out of whatever settlement may be forthcoming.

One more thing, and this is a biggie.  The reason pirate wants to pay us PPT customers directly is to ensure that there is no funny business with the settlements. 

Lawyered up or not, at this point it makes sense for him to remove as much counterparty risk as possible, to best minimize chances of further uncertainty/rancor/dissatisfaction/unpaid accounts and ensuing litigation or other negative consequences.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
payb.tc
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August 30, 2012, 06:34:37 AM
 #1773

it is very unlikely that i will be sending pirate the details of bitcoinmax accounts.

Do you mean that in the general sense of the complete account list, or even in the individual cases where you've been specifically asked to?  Disclaimer: I'd like my BTCMax info passed to pirate ASAP, by the Fri deadline at the very latest.

i think this information is totally irrelevant to *my* account at BST.

Do you mean your personal account or the totality of the BTCMax PPT?

Either way, pirate's announcement of default and statement of terms for the ensuing wind-down make that information *very* relevant.  

I hope you choose to accept the terms of the wind-down, so we (your customers) don't get left out of whatever settlement may be forthcoming.

One more thing, and this is a biggie.  The reason pirate wants to pay us PPT customers directly is to ensure that there is no funny business with the settlements.  

Lawyered up or not, at this point it makes sense for him to remove as much counterparty risk as possible, to best minimize chances of further uncertainty/rancor/dissatisfaction/unpaid accounts and ensuing litigation or other negative consequences.

i only have one account at BST. it contains everything.

whether there is any 'funny business' within bitcoinmax is also irrelevant to pirate and my BST account being paid out. if he can prove he sent ~168300 to me (and everyone by now knows my bst withdrawal address - 19kEo3qmuUdAQb1Q7VZhRwahw5v3NSZCeW), then that's as far as his responsibility goes.
zyk
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August 30, 2012, 06:48:53 AM
 #1774

In truth, Payb.tc is the only "account" of BCS&T, and therefore is owed the entire amount. I'm not sure how I feel about pirate getting your entire customer list, with bitcoin addresses and email addresses.

+1

i don't see how bitcoinmax account details have anything to do with pirate or BS&T.

it's pretty simple... he needs to pay out my BS&T account to my BS&T withdrawal address.

if only a smaller proportion of that can be paid out, then i'll pass that smaller % on to bitcoinmax account holders.

the "FIFO" thing was only a side-effect of ordering by USER ID (a number), but it doesn't mean if only only get 50% back later accounts will miss out... if i only get 50% back, then all accounts will get 50% back.



You could have clarified this in the Op, when i first asked you to do.....as Bitcoinmax could still have been considered  a legal but failed buiseness, who will distribute remnants evenly.

It´s to late now ..... its considered an intended ponzi !!....for claryfying that it ain´t so  --now:   you please subtract all the interest earned during operation from each accounts balance

( because that are all - ill gotten gains ) and take those BTC in escrow....when any payment comes from pirate you start paying back principal from bottom up !!

Example: there are coming as many coins as you got accounts :  each account one coin......and so on till the smallest account is closed out first.....zykloogish?

and please post this in OP !                                ---do this before pirate will do this for you---


Cheers Zyk




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August 30, 2012, 06:55:17 AM
 #1775

I admit asking ppt owners to supply details is rather odd. But the situation we have here is pirateat40 has all depositors by the balls. That's the unfortunate truth. If we want see any coins again we have to dance to his tune, however unpleasent it may be.

If ppt customers don't want their details passed on, that's fine. No problem. As long as your aware you less likely to see any coins returned. As I said, unpleasant, but he's got us by the balls. Whilst he holds our coins hostage, he calls the shots. That's the reality.

I wish my details to be passed on. Can you let us know by end of today payb.tc if you can't or won't send pirate details, so I can email them directly to pirate instead?

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August 30, 2012, 07:05:23 AM
 #1776

Can you let us know by end of today payb.tc if you can't or won't send pirate details, so I can email them directly to pirate instead?

first, please tell me when the end of today is.
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August 30, 2012, 07:10:05 AM
 #1777

Say Fri 00:00:00 utc.

Is that okay?

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August 30, 2012, 07:12:39 AM
 #1778

I admit asking ppt owners to supply details is rather odd. But the situation we have here is pirateat40 has all depositors by the balls. That's the unfortunate truth. If we want see any coins again we have to dance to his tune, however unpleasent it may be.

That is correct, with the qualification that he has only those on his leash who still irrationally believe to get any money back. Needless to say, nobody will see a penny.

Legally, if somebody has a contract with payb.tc or with anybody else, nobody outside that contract has any right to demand anything. The only sensible procedure is that your contract is fulfilled and the other contract, for example between payb.tc and the pirate, is none of your business.

The pirate is playing his cards well. What he really wanted is to confuse you so much that you fail to notice this next delay tactic. It seems to be working incredibly well. The pirate is certainly not underestimating the boundless stupidity of humans. Could hardly stop shaking my head when I read this thread up to here.

On top of that he gets data that he would not otherwise be able to obtain. I can only guess what he wants it for, but it certainly smells very fishy.

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The two most prevalent elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity, but not necessarily in that order.

http://www.dailytech.com/Pirateat40+Makes+Off+56M+USD+in+BitCoins+From+Pyramid+Scheme/article25538.htm

http://rt.com/usa/news/investors-currency-digital-fund-868/
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August 30, 2012, 07:20:36 AM
 #1779

I admit asking ppt owners to supply details is rather odd. But the situation we have here is pirateat40 has all depositors by the balls. That's the unfortunate truth. If we want see any coins again we have to dance to his tune, however unpleasent it may be.

That is correct, with the qualification that he has only those on his leash who still irrationally believe to get any money back. Needless to say, nobody will see a penny.

Legally, if somebody has a contract with payb.tc or with anybody else, nobody outside that contract has any right to demand anything. The only sensible procedure is that your contract is fulfilled and the other contract, for example between payb.tc and the pirate, is none of your business.

The pirate is playing his cards well. What he really wanted is to confuse you so much that you fail to notice this next delay tactic. It seems to be working incredibly well. The pirate is certainly not underestimating the boundless stupidity of humans. Could hardly stop shaking my head when I read this thread up to here.

On top of that he gets data that he would not otherwise be able to obtain. I can only guess what he wants it for, but it certainly smells very fishy.

--
The two most prevalent elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity, but not necessarily in that order.

my guess is:

pirateat asked for that information to let all ppt owners think that he would only pay out principal.

as (most) of the ppt-owners have old accounts their principal is not very big compaired to their gained interest -> that makes them fear that if they disclose this information they get only a very small cut.

which results in what we see now: ppt-account holders try to convince ppt-owners to tell their info to pirate - and they dont want to. which basically means he could blame the ppt-owners now why it takes longer.

it just seems to be a "buy-time" tactic. and another good thing for him: many people thinks ppt-owners are scammers. with a little fud not all the dirt is thrown at him.
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August 30, 2012, 07:24:31 AM
 #1780

it is very unlikely that i will be sending pirate the details of bitcoinmax accounts.

Do you mean that in the general sense of the complete account list, or even in the individual cases where you've been specifically asked to?  Disclaimer: I'd like my BTCMax info passed to pirate ASAP, by the Fri deadline at the very latest.

i think this information is totally irrelevant to *my* account at BST.

Do you mean your personal account or the totality of the BTCMax PPT?

Either way, pirate's announcement of default and statement of terms for the ensuing wind-down make that information *very* relevant.  

I hope you choose to accept the terms of the wind-down, so we (your customers) don't get left out of whatever settlement may be forthcoming.

One more thing, and this is a biggie.  The reason pirate wants to pay us PPT customers directly is to ensure that there is no funny business with the settlements.  

Lawyered up or not, at this point it makes sense for him to remove as much counterparty risk as possible, to best minimize chances of further uncertainty/rancor/dissatisfaction/unpaid accounts and ensuing litigation or other negative consequences.

i only have one account at BST. it contains everything.

whether there is any 'funny business' within bitcoinmax is also irrelevant to pirate and my BST account being paid out. if he can prove he sent ~168300 to me (and everyone by now knows my bst withdrawal address - 19kEo3qmuUdAQb1Q7VZhRwahw5v3NSZCeW), then that's as far as his responsibility goes.

Had.  Not "have."  As in, you "had" one account at BST.  That is no longer the case, as we are now in bankruptcy proceedings and whatever BST/PPT corporate veils once existed now require piercing.

As you are aware, BST is in default.  That means previously existing arrangements no longer apply and are irrelevant.

You must learn to start using the past tense when referring to your (former) BST account.

Let go of the cherished past and please, for the sake of your customers, start dealing with the pressing demands of the present and potentialities of the future.

Nobody is saying there is any funny business within bitcoinmax, but legal and practical strictures require pirate to act in such a manner as if there is or could be.

Pirate is not going to place himself in any position where the potential exists for a PPT operator to cut and run, leaving him on the hook to settle the accounts twice.  It's a smart business move; I would do the same thing in his shoes.

Quote
it's pretty simple... he needs to pay out my BS&T account to my BS&T withdrawal address.

It is NOT that simple, no matter how strenuously you insist it is.  When Madoff's Ponzi went bust, the money recovered did NOT go back to his feeder funds for redistribution.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
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