BitBay OFFICIAL BITBAY Thread Smart Contracts Decentralized Markets Rolling Peg

[DeezCoinz]

Why people arent flocking to double deposit escrow and pegging tech just shocks me. When is everyone going to learn? Escrow should not exist!

Go market bitbay on reddit.com/r/darknetmarkets. People are now salivating for a decentralized solution for the Internet Marketplace. Strike while the iron is hot. People will flock when they see a working solution.

Off course the timing would be great for the markets but its still being tested and we dont want to market something that isnt working 100%.

Nothing wrong with letting people know that it's in beta and that the solution may soon be here. Stoke up the interest. Get more beta testers. It was recently announced as being the world's first working decentralized market wasn't it? Get it in front of a large number of potential users. If it's even close, perhaps it will draw a lot of volunteer talent to the dev effort. People will be able to see that it's working and help it along faster than the small effort that goes into it now. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. There will probably never be another opportunity like this.

[dzimbeck]

Why people arent flocking to double deposit escrow and pegging tech just shocks me. When is everyone going to learn? Escrow should not exist!

Go market bitbay on reddit.com/r/darknetmarkets. People are now salivating for a decentralized solution for the Internet Marketplace. Strike while the iron is hot. People will flock when they see a working solution.

Off course the timing would be great for the markets but its still being tested and we dont want to market something that isnt working 100%.

we are making sure the markets and new build work on all linux mac and windows platforms. Building a static build of everything is challenging. Different computers have different issues. However we are almost there. A few more days and public tests can begin.

[Lboss]

Edit: Problem solved , I have just seen wrong numbers. It was about 140 million. However , in the next release , it would be better if we can see some comma for seperating digits.
Secondly, If you dont have some significant amount of coins it is not easy to get stakes , am I wrong(In my case , I have 96k coins)?

I didnt get POS2.0.

It says coins age out of the race. I got it and my weight is equal to just my coins. Ok with that, but how the network weight can be 1.4 billion.140 million. Is there a mechanism such that calculates how many hours a node online or something else?

Please help me to understand, since my weight doesnt change about 3 hours and it still says "23 hours" or "1 day".

[illodin]

Why people arent flocking to double deposit escrow and pegging tech just shocks me. When is everyone going to learn? Escrow should not exist!

Bit/BlackHalo and BitBay doesnt use escrow, parties dont risk losing funds at all, it cant be hacked, it can enable barter. *sigh* ... perhaps its because I dont have enough time to do marketing so vaporware always wins.

Here is a marketing opportunity: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=995694.0

That thread is advertising a market place that almost certainly doesn't have any smart contracts or trustless escrows.

[Gizfreak]

Why people arent flocking to double deposit escrow and pegging tech just shocks me. When is everyone going to learn? Escrow should not exist!

Bit/BlackHalo and BitBay doesnt use escrow, parties dont risk losing funds at all, it cant be hacked, it can enable barter. *sigh* ... perhaps its because I dont have enough time to do marketing so vaporware always wins.

Here is a marketing opportunity: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=995694.0

That thread is advertising a market place that almost certainly doesn't have any smart contracts or trustless escrows.

Thanks for bringing this up illodin. Just as i thought. The darknet is looking into a way to get there illicit trading done in a decentralized way.
We are targeting a totally different audience though and that is reassuring to me.
But I will follow the evolution (what a word in this context) of this Shadow Market.

[DeezCoinz]

Why people arent flocking to double deposit escrow and pegging tech just shocks me. When is everyone going to learn? Escrow should not exist!

Bit/BlackHalo and BitBay doesnt use escrow, parties dont risk losing funds at all, it cant be hacked, it can enable barter. *sigh* ... perhaps its because I dont have enough time to do marketing so vaporware always wins.

So, the thing called "double deposit escrow" isn't escrow? Where are the funds kept for the duration of the transaction? If the contract is broken and both sides lose, where does the escrow money go?

[asuryan180]

" Deezcoinz

Could not resist but check your past post history as you are very interested in this project which is good don't get me wrong but you have clearly created the account just for Bitbay questions

Can i ask why you have done this please and why not just use your original account?

Thanks for your attention.

[dzimbeck]

" Deezcoinz

Could not resist but check your past post history as you are very interested in this project which is good don't get me wrong but you have clearly created the account just for Bitbay questions

Can i ask why you have done this please and why not just use your original account?

Thanks for your attention.

Also true for the Gabriel profile and about 10 others that have attempted to comment here. Some of the profiles seem neutral others not so much.

[dzimbeck]

Why people arent flocking to double deposit escrow and pegging tech just shocks me. When is everyone going to learn? Escrow should not exist!

Bit/BlackHalo and BitBay doesnt use escrow, parties dont risk losing funds at all, it cant be hacked, it can enable barter. *sigh* ... perhaps its because I dont have enough time to do marketing so vaporware always wins.

So, the thing called "double deposit escrow" isn't escrow? Where are the funds kept for the duration of the transaction? If the contract is broken and both sides lose, where does the escrow money go?

In theory no it is not. It is in fact a joint account. Please read my whitepaper on BitHalo.org to see how its done. Basically, you withhold one critical transaction to a temporary account for leverage in negotiating a time bomb. Then both parties have a copy of that and to prevent malleability both parties can either negotiate a refund or refuse to proceed until the bomb is signed. Then once its signed they fund a joint account.

The joint account has only 2 keys. So no actual escrow is needed. Both parties made a deposit simultaneously and even possibly advanced an amount. Any instant refunds would be based on the same txid as a time bomb so again malleability cant be performed. I think the same logic can be used for AT.

Hope that helps. The short answer to your question is: "It is stored in a joint account, there is no escrow, just double deposit"

Instead we could say "2 party escrow" as stated in my paper.

[dzimbeck]

Edit: Problem solved , I have just seen wrong numbers. It was about 140 million. However , in the next release , it would be better if we can see some comma for seperating digits.
Secondly, If you dont have some significant amount of coins it is not easy to get stakes , am I wrong(In my case , I have 96k coins)?

I didnt get POS2.0.

It says coins age out of the race. I got it and my weight is equal to just my coins. Ok with that, but how the network weight can be 1.4 billion.140 million. Is there a mechanism such that calculates how many hours a node online or something else?

Please help me to understand, since my weight doesnt change about 3 hours and it still says "23 hours" or "1 day".

Thats true but the stake reward is higher for small amounts of coins. So if you have a .1% chance of getting the block your reward is higher than one who has a 99% chance of getting a block.

Also, I am adding multisignature staking to all my clients. So now, you can stake without ever getting hacked. (2fa staking)

[EMIF]

Hi dzimbeck,

I have invested BitBAY ICO and bought lots more of it when its price crashed. I like the idea of BitBAY and just wanted to be successful.

Last few days , Im trying to understand how it works. I looked at bithalo whitepaper , Ive just confused. I have also watch your video at the conference.

I dont want high level technical details , I want basical framework how it works, If you dont mind.

Basic Scenario:

1-) Bob wants to buy a cellphone and Sally wants to sell her cellphone.

2-) They agree to buy-sell at a certain price and make a contract.

3-) Then , Bob sends his money to double deposit account , and also Sally sends some amount same account (double what Bob sends?) with some timelimit

4-) Then, Sally sends her cellphone to Bob, Bob gets his product

5-) Once he confirms his product as good , then he release initial amount and all deposit goes to Sally's account

Here are my questions:

a) First of all is above scenario correct?

b) How can we be assure Bob is not manipulating the system , saying that I didnt take my product ?

c) Lets say there is a problem with Bobs country's customs and product waits very long time. What will happen? Or in our country cellphone from outside is not allowed. Our custom does not also  send back to sender. They just get the phone. And sell it at an auction.

I have lots of questions but here I have a starting point. Could you please answer my questions ?

Thanks in advance...
 

[dzimbeck]

Hi dzimbeck,

I have invested BitBAY ICO and bought lots more of it when its price crashed. I like the idea of BitBAY and just wanted to be successful.

Last few days , Im trying to understand how it works. I looked at bithalo whitepaper , Ive just confused. I have also watch your video at the conference.

I dont want high level technical details , I want basical framework how it works, If you dont mind.

Basic Scenario:

1-) Bob wants to buy a cellphone and Sally wants to sell her cellphone.

2-) They agree to buy-sell at a certain price and make a contract.

3-) Then , Bob sends his money to double deposit account , and also Sally sends some amount same account (double what Bob sends?) with some timelimit

4-) Then, Sally sends her cellphone to Bob, Bob gets his product

5-) Once he confirms his product as good , then he release initial amount and all deposit goes to Sally's account

Here are my questions:

a) First of all is above scenario correct?

b) How can we be assure Bob is not manipulating the system , saying that I didnt take my product ?

c) Lets say there is a problem with Bobs country's customs and product waits very long time. What will happen? Or in our country cellphone from outside is not allowed. Our custom does not also  send back to sender. They just get the phone. And sell it at an auction.

I have lots of questions but here I have a starting point. Could you please answer my questions ?

Thanks in advance...
 

Hi EMIF thanks for the support.

First of all you had it correct except its in reverse. If Bob and Sally are total strangers with no trust, then Bob would deposit 1 and advance the amount 1(for the phone). Sally would only deposit 1 to avoid extorting from Bob.

So at first Bob is -2 Sally -1.

Then Sally sends the phone worth 1

So Sally is -2 Bob is -1

If Bob says he didnt get it he is still -1 and just paid double for the phone. If customs really provably had a problem, then Bob should contact Sally and explain. Its up to Bob and Sally to agree before the time runs out or they both lose. Of course insurance is recommended with international packages!

However, if customs took the item, then both Bob and Sally then would want to agree on an extension.

If Bob ever tries to steal the phone he is -1 and will pay for his deception.

If Sally really has no trust for Bob she can even make him pay more deposit before entering a contract. Trust levels is dependent on how new the parties are to the system and what Sally thinks. There is also a rating system so deposits can be lowered after good behavior.

The best part is, BitBay will handle everything automatically. So Sally does not need to worry about deposits. The "Templates" will set those amounts based on recommended levels. She can choose the edit the template and it would show as a "Custom contract"

There is also auctioning/counter-offer system in BitBay. So they can negotiate everything in advance and everyone can bid on prices!

[DeezCoinz]

Why people arent flocking to double deposit escrow and pegging tech just shocks me. When is everyone going to learn? Escrow should not exist!

Bit/BlackHalo and BitBay doesnt use escrow, parties dont risk losing funds at all, it cant be hacked, it can enable barter. *sigh* ... perhaps its because I dont have enough time to do marketing so vaporware always wins.

So, the thing called "double deposit escrow" isn't escrow? Where are the funds kept for the duration of the transaction? If the contract is broken and both sides lose, where does the escrow money go?

In theory no it is not. It is in fact a joint account. Please read my whitepaper on BitHalo.org to see how its done. Basically, you withhold one critical transaction to a temporary account for leverage in negotiating a time bomb. Then both parties have a copy of that and to prevent malleability both parties can either negotiate a refund or refuse to proceed until the bomb is signed. Then once its signed they fund a joint account.

The joint account has only 2 keys. So no actual escrow is needed. Both parties made a deposit simultaneously and even possibly advanced an amount. Any instant refunds would be based on the same txid as a time bomb so again malleability cant be performed. I think the same logic can be used for AT.

Hope that helps. The short answer to your question is: "It is stored in a joint account, there is no escrow, just double deposit"

Instead we could say "2 party escrow" as stated in my paper.

You say "joint account, there is no escrow" and then say we can call it "2 party escrow". That makes no sense.

Where is the joint account/escrow physically located during the transaction and what happens to the money if the timebomb goes off?

[EMIF]

Hi EMIF thanks for the support.

First of all you had it correct except its in reverse. If Bob and Sally are total strangers with no trust, then Bob would deposit 1 and advance the amount 1(for the phone). Sally would only deposit 1 to avoid extorting from Bob.

So at first Bob is -2 Sally -1.

Then Sally sends the phone worth 1

So Sally is -2 Bob is -1

If Bob says he didnt get it he is still -1 and just paid double for the phone. If customs really provably had a problem, then Bob should contact Sally and explain. Its up to Bob and Sally to agree before the time runs out or they both lose. Of course insurance is recommended with international packages!

However, if customs took the item, then both Bob and Sally then would want to agree on an extension.

If Bob ever tries to steal the phone he is -1 and will pay for his deception.

If Sally really has no trust for Bob she can even make him pay more deposit before entering a contract. Trust levels is dependent on how new the parties are to the system and what Sally thinks. There is also a rating system so deposits can be lowered after good behavior.

The best part is, BitBay will handle everything automatically. So Sally does not need to worry about deposits. The "Templates" will set those amounts based on recommended levels. She can choose the edit the template and it would show as a "Custom contract"

There is also auctioning/counter-offer system in BitBay. So they can negotiate everything in advance and everyone can bid on prices!

Hi dzimbeck,

Thanks for your answer. I have clearer understanding of the mechanism and thanks also for your geniune effort.

I have one more question , as I understand timelimit , after timelimit; coins in double deposit account will be burned (or destroyed).

Lets assume nobody is cheating, but what happens If Bob is dead after Sally sends cellphone(or after Bob getting cellphone)?

So Sally sends his product , Bob may or may not get the item but before confirming the product he dies , his coins and Sally's coins will be burned due to time limit, right?
If so, is there any protection for this?

[dzimbeck]

Why people arent flocking to double deposit escrow and pegging tech just shocks me. When is everyone going to learn? Escrow should not exist!

Bit/BlackHalo and BitBay doesnt use escrow, parties dont risk losing funds at all, it cant be hacked, it can enable barter. *sigh* ... perhaps its because I dont have enough time to do marketing so vaporware always wins.

So, the thing called "double deposit escrow" isn't escrow? Where are the funds kept for the duration of the transaction? If the contract is broken and both sides lose, where does the escrow money go?

In theory no it is not. It is in fact a joint account. Please read my whitepaper on BitHalo.org to see how its done. Basically, you withhold one critical transaction to a temporary account for leverage in negotiating a time bomb. Then both parties have a copy of that and to prevent malleability both parties can either negotiate a refund or refuse to proceed until the bomb is signed. Then once its signed they fund a joint account.

The joint account has only 2 keys. So no actual escrow is needed. Both parties made a deposit simultaneously and even possibly advanced an amount. Any instant refunds would be based on the same txid as a time bomb so again malleability cant be performed. I think the same logic can be used for AT.

Hope that helps. The short answer to your question is: "It is stored in a joint account, there is no escrow, just double deposit"

Instead we could say "2 party escrow" as stated in my paper.

You say "joint account, there is no escrow" and then say we can call it "2 party escrow". That makes no sense.

Where is the joint account/escrow physically located during the transaction and what happens to the money if the timebomb goes off?

I agree it doesnt make sense but this is the first time we have ever lived without escrow. So you are 1/2 of the escrow, they are the other 1/2 think of it that way. Escrow is just a word for an intermediary that holds the paperwork and funds for the execution of the contract. Since there is no escrow agent, the agents themselves are the parties involved.

So maybe we need to invent a new word for this.

A typical contract can be seen on the blockchain from start to finish.
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/bay/tx.dws?3f5948d0b137f3d3151c5c4ecde2bd1eb6208169a1730cffed138bf66fa3810b.htm

That transaction shows the two inputs from different addresses, their temporary accounts, then also the "escrow"/joint account and the release back to the parties.

Notice the inputs of 2 and 4 from separate addresses and outputs of 4 and 2 respectively.

The bomb is held by both parties and is never broadcasted. However BitBay will automatically submit this bomb AND delete the key to the escrow destroying the funds in two ways if the time limit runs out.

[dzimbeck]

Hi EMIF thanks for the support.

First of all you had it correct except its in reverse. If Bob and Sally are total strangers with no trust, then Bob would deposit 1 and advance the amount 1(for the phone). Sally would only deposit 1 to avoid extorting from Bob.

So at first Bob is -2 Sally -1.

Then Sally sends the phone worth 1

So Sally is -2 Bob is -1

If Bob says he didnt get it he is still -1 and just paid double for the phone. If customs really provably had a problem, then Bob should contact Sally and explain. Its up to Bob and Sally to agree before the time runs out or they both lose. Of course insurance is recommended with international packages!

However, if customs took the item, then both Bob and Sally then would want to agree on an extension.

If Bob ever tries to steal the phone he is -1 and will pay for his deception.

If Sally really has no trust for Bob she can even make him pay more deposit before entering a contract. Trust levels is dependent on how new the parties are to the system and what Sally thinks. There is also a rating system so deposits can be lowered after good behavior.

The best part is, BitBay will handle everything automatically. So Sally does not need to worry about deposits. The "Templates" will set those amounts based on recommended levels. She can choose the edit the template and it would show as a "Custom contract"

There is also auctioning/counter-offer system in BitBay. So they can negotiate everything in advance and everyone can bid on prices!

Hi dzimbeck,

Thanks for your answer. I have clearer understanding of the mechanism and thanks also for your geniune effort.

I have one more question , as I understand timelimit , after timelimit; coins in double deposit account will be burned (or destroyed).

Lets assume nobody is cheating, but what happens If Bob is dead after Sally sends cellphone(or after Bob getting cellphone)?

So Sally sends his product , Bob may or may not get the item but before confirming the product he dies , his coins and Sally's coins will be burned due to time limit, right?
If so, is there any protection for this?

Yes there is and its a good one! You see because you only have 50% control of those contracts you can give one key to your wife, lawyer friend or partner or even give them contracts.dat to assist in completion if you are incapacitated. In the future we can take this one step further and use automatic signing of escrows unless told otherwise.

But for now keep it simple. Give your friend one key to your account. They cant get your coins and they can sign for you if you die.

Perhaps parties will request a second contact address for buyers in case of incapacity. The odds of that happening are so low for now, its not worth worrying about.

If Sally has no friends and no family and she dies well... lol Bob is out of luck.

[Mig-23]

just wonder
when all this plan released and implemented ?
and why so long 

[Gizfreak]

just wonder
when all this plan released and implemented ?
and why so long 

It took us so long, because of a very bad start with a couple of crooks and a lot of FUD involved.
Now that things have settled a bit and we have a nice Slack group surrounding David, we're on the right track again, although with some delay.
But I guess you can understand that.

[illodin]

So maybe we need to invent a new word for this.

Collateral or collateral deposit? I'm not native English speaker so maybe that would fit or not.

[dzimbeck]

just wonder
when all this plan released and implemented ?
and why so long 

Not only the sabotage and fud, but i had to make a decision to not hire any coders and work alone. Its stressful but i get more done this way. Also it will give me a little more firepower in the future. To make things even better, I paired up with a friend who is helping with all the back end like articles and building and other things to save time. This allows me to focus on coding only. For example, i was able to update the bitbay source with locktimes in a single day! Markets only took me 2 weeks! Templates will take a few more... so things are way faster now. Plus im staying with my friend it makes life easier than when i was traveling too much.

So expect public beta in a day or two.