BitBay OFFICIAL BITBAY Thread Smart Contracts Decentralized Markets Rolling Peg

[healthhealer4]

When the peg is implemented it should be peg to the cny (Chinese yuan) . If you see the chart below historically the yuan is getting stronger because the yuan (second chart ) got off the usd peg . If a freeze of coins is implemented, less coins will be frozen compare to being on a usd peg because the yuan will have a stronger value .

[Munti]

Pegging is still in the workshop, so we might still do things differently than I say now.
That said, we are discussing a rolling peg. With rolling peg we mean it's not set once and for all. A plausible scenario is that we start by pegging it to $ 0.01. As demand increases, we will release the frozen bay. When all or most of the frozen bay are released we change the peg to say $ 0.1 and freeze a certain amount of bay again.
If we use the rolling peg it is irrelevant that the dollar looses value. We can peg to $10 or $1000 if we need to. We can also peg to a mix of currensies. As to less coins being frozen if we choose cny, you are right only if you set the alternatives to be 1 USD versus 1 CNY or 0.01 USD versus 0.01 CNY. The dollar is worth 6 times more than the yuan. But it is not really relevant how much of your coin are frozen. Your buying power with your spendable bay will be the same. The difference is that your frozeen bay are worth more (when released) if we peg to $1 instead of $0.1
Here's an example based on todays value of bay:

If we peg to $0.01 and freeze according to marketcap, we would have to freeze approx. 98%
That means there would only be 20 mil bay in circulation
If you buy bay for 1 btc ($275)  at 50 sat you get 2 mil. bay
When pegging starts 98% will be frozen. You can spend or sell 2% of your bay. 2% of 2 mil is 40 000 spendable bay
40 000 bay x $0.01 will be worth 400 dollars.

20 mil (the totall amount of spendable bay) at $0.01 is only $200k
With buyers and seller having to hold some bay for smart contracts we would have to release more very soon

For now we are going with the US $ because it is the worlds reserve currensy

[HouseOP]

..... For now we are going with the US $ because it is the worlds reserve currensy

may I say that is a mighty big call, considering what those arseholes are up to. I kind of hope that you don't really believe that.
Just saying...

Great job Team, believe in you guys, you've come a long way and stuck it out. COMMENDATIONS  

House

[healthhealer4]

Pegging is still in the workshop, so we might still do things differently than I say now.
That said, we are discussing a rolling peg. With rolling peg we mean it's not set once and for all. A plausible scenario is that we start by pegging it to $ 0.01. As demand increases, we will release the frozen bay. When all or most of the frozen bay are released we change the peg to say $ 0.1 and freeze a certain amount of bay again.
If we use the rolling peg it is irrelevant that the dollar looses value. We can peg to $10 or $1000 if we need to. We can also peg to a mix of currensies. As to less coins being frozen if we choose cny, you are right only if you set the alternatives to be 1 USD versus 1 CNY or 0.01 USD versus 0.01 CNY. The dollar is worth 6 times more than the yuan. But it is not really relevant how much of your coin are frozen. Your buying power with your spendable bay will be the same. The difference is that your frozeen bay are worth more (when released) if we peg to $1 instead of $0.1
Here's an example based on todays value of bay:

If we peg to $0.01 and freeze according to marketcap, we would have to freeze approx. 98%
That means there would only be 20 mil bay in circulation
If you buy bay for 1 btc ($275)  at 50 sat you get 2 mil. bay
When pegging starts 98% will be frozen. You can spend or sell 2% of your bay. 2% of 2 mil is 40 000 spendable bay
40 000 bay x $0.01 will be worth 400 dollars.

20 mil (the totall amount of spendable bay) at $0.01 is only $200k
With buyers and seller having to hold some bay for smart contracts we would have to release more very soon

For now we are going with the US $ because it is the worlds reserve currensy

yes your saying that it wouldn't matter because every one will just vote to do a rolling peg and we can continuously increase the peg to anther higher dollar value. But when the market roll out and the value of the usd keeps dropping then there will be lest bitbays in circulation for the market for some periods  of time.As time goes on we would vote more often to off set inflation . with cny we would freeze coin lest often and more bays in circulation for the market, not only that but the value "should" keep going up as it is now avoiding another freeze .Just thinking of the future  .Also look at this website https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html it show how much a country net trade in goods and services, plus net earnings. Guess where usa is at.

[victoryboy]

Finally an updated OP showing where we stand now after the loads of shit we have gone through.

Its going to be a lot of fun watching this coin completely redeem itself.

1+ for sticking around and giving everything, how can this coin then not redeem itself
Keep up the good job.

This will go past the IPO price quite easily

It looks like the bad period has gone and now will be just good days with positive news and bitbay will continue its journey.

[Kevinrasf]

I think most people here prefer to be pegged to USD instead of CNY.


But indeed we can just amend the frozen amount to match whatever we want.

[Munti]

yes your saying that it wouldn't matter because every one will just vote to do a rolling peg and we can continuously increase the peg to anther higher dollar value. But when the market roll out and the value of the usd keeps dropping then there will be lest bitbays in circulation for the market for some periods  of time.As time goes on we would vote more often to off set inflation . with cny we would freeze coin lest often and more bays in circulation for the market, not only that but the value "should" keep going up as it is now avoiding another freeze .Just thinking of the future  .Also look at this website https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html it show how much a country net trade in goods and services, plus net earnings. Guess where usa is at.

If I understand you correct, you are arguing that the choice of currency influences how often we have to freeze and release bay. That is not correct other than possibly as a minor influence on a very long term (and no one knows the future). The problems you are addressing are very relevant on the other hand; how often shall we vote for freezing or releasing bay. For instance we will have to release a lot of bay for christmas shopping (some retailers have up to 70% of their yearly sale for christmas), and then we will have to much bay available after christmas.
This is one of the hard ones, and thus one of the reason we still have pegging in the workshop. Obviously it's not practical to vote to often. Voting should be for the major decisions. So we are looking at different combinations of automation and incentives to voluntary freeze, so we don't have to do a voted freeze/release for every fluctuation in the market. The goal is to have a little more bay released than we think is needed at any (most) time. This "surplus" bay we want to be able to control into voluntary freeze/release through incentives to handle fluctuations in the need for bay. It is of course possible to handle this with a buy wall that is big enough, but we want to keep that as small as possible because money locked in a buy wall has a "lost opportunity" cost.

As to your link that shows net trade and earnings, that does not say anything about how much a currency is used. Nr. 3,5, and 6 on that list are oil nations. I'll pick nr. 6, Norway, because I know something about it. Norway has it's own currency, Norwegian kroner (Nkr). But the wast majority of Norways trade is done in US$ and euro. Much of Norways savings are also held in US$ and euro. Nkr is only used domestically. In fact, in alot of countries you would have a hard time buing local currencies for Nkr. The US$ on the other hand is used in the whole world. In several countries it's actually more wanted than the local currency.

@HouseOP: The choice of US$ is not a political statement. In fact I'm not sure if it would be possible to find political topics where the bay team would agree among our self. 

[3r197]

So how exactly do you go about freezing a percentage of coins people have stuck in exchanges - which I'm guessing is around 40-50 percent of the total coins?

Do you set up a deadline for all people to send their coins to their wallets after the pegging is to commence?

That seems like a tough one to tackle...

[Munti]

It is
As David said before we have to work with the exchanges on this one. That's a process we have not started yet. We need to have the framework in place first.

[Kevinrasf]

So how exactly do you go about freezing a percentage of coins people have stuck in exchanges - which I'm guessing is around 40-50 percent of the total coins?

Do you set up a deadline for all people to send their coins to their wallets after the pegging is to commence?

That seems like a tough one to tackle...

Exchanges work together with the dev;s to build an integrated system to provide pegging even for exchange based coins.

[3r197]

Thanks for the replies...

Hopefully with smart contract tech, the reserve wallets will be unhackable.
Cause they'd be prime targets on centralized exchanges.

edit: It seems like some people will never learn that crypto was created so that you don't have to account for other people to hold your money

[dzimbeck]

It should be mentioned that any exchange we work with has to correctly calculate the reserves or else they will end up overselling the coin on the exchange! Then if too many people try and withdraw, the transactions will get declined (the exchange wallet can't spend its reserve).

So, any exchange we work with, will have to run a custom program to calculate the balance correctly. This means keeping track of who you sold to and what the interest rates were at the time. I can write an application to make this easy for them, however they must use that application responsibly and not oversell the coin. That requires trust because if they oversell it, people withdraw too much then the transactions get declined.

Any exchange running this program will give you two balances, BitBay and BitBay reserve. They will have to give you coins if there is inflation too.

However, if you trade Bitbay on a decentralized exchange (such as in NightTrader or BitBay markets), then you can do it perfectly with no need to trust an exchange.

However, considering exchanges like to work with pegging coins such as NuBits, i dont think it will be a problem to convince them to take it. The trust factor is the thing. After seeing so many centralized exchanges go down, its hard to say if they would do it correctly. On the other hand, why would they not calculate the balance correctly because if they don't, people would be able to dump on the market and we would notice the problem immediately.

Also, i personally like the idea of a rolling peg as opposed to a hard peg to allow stable growth.

Thank you munti for the excellent explanation and analysis!

[Munti]

Thanks for the replies...

Hopefully with smart contract tech, the reserve wallets will be unhackable.
Cause they'd be prime targets on centralized exchanges.

edit: It seems like some people will never learn that crypto was created so that you don't have to account for other people to hold your money

Smart contract or not, I don't see any reason to keep my bay on exchanges. If I want to trade, I can transfer the amount needed to an exchange, but keep the rest safe at home. I would advice everyone to do the same.

[dzimbeck]

Thanks for the replies...

Hopefully with smart contract tech, the reserve wallets will be unhackable.
Cause they'd be prime targets on centralized exchanges.

edit: It seems like some people will never learn that crypto was created so that you don't have to account for other people to hold your money

Smart contract or not, I don't see any reason to keep my bay on exchanges. If I want to trade, I can transfer the amount needed to an exchange, but keep the rest safe at home. I would advice everyone to do the same.

Well I agree, to be honest, despite latency I will be trading on NightTrader on my own exchange because im really sick and tired of losing bitcoins on centralized exchanges.

[Gizfreak]

Thanks for the replies...

Hopefully with smart contract tech, the reserve wallets will be unhackable.
Cause they'd be prime targets on centralized exchanges.

edit: It seems like some people will never learn that crypto was created so that you don't have to account for other people to hold your money

Smart contract or not, I don't see any reason to keep my bay on exchanges. If I want to trade, I can transfer the amount needed to an exchange, but keep the rest safe at home. I would advice everyone to do the same.

Well I agree, to be honest, despite latency I will be trading on NightTrader on my own exchange because im really sick and tired of losing bitcoins on centralized exchanges.

And that is exactly why I am so enthusiast about BitBay

[toknormal]

Bitbay cited as needed by other coins:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg10683138#msg10683138

[Gizfreak]

Bitbay cited as needed by other coins:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg10683138#msg10683138

Thanks for the link

[healthhealer4]

yes your saying that it wouldn't matter because every one will just vote to do a rolling peg and we can continuously increase the peg to anther higher dollar value. But when the market roll out and the value of the usd keeps dropping then there will be lest bitbays in circulation for the market for some periods  of time.As time goes on we would vote more often to off set inflation . with cny we would freeze coin lest often and more bays in circulation for the market, not only that but the value "should" keep going up as it is now avoiding another freeze .Just thinking of the future   .Also look at this website https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html it show how much a country net trade in goods and services, plus net earnings. Guess where usa is at.

If I understand you correct, you are arguing that the choice of currency influences how often we have to freeze and release bay. That is not correct other than possibly as a minor influence on a very long term (and no one knows the future). The problems you are addressing are very relevant on the other hand; how often shall we vote for freezing or releasing bay. For instance we will have to release a lot of bay for christmas shopping (some retailers have up to 70% of their yearly sale for christmas), and then we will have to much bay available after christmas.
This is one of the hard ones, and thus one of the reason we still have pegging in the workshop. Obviously it's not practical to vote to often. Voting should be for the major decisions. So we are looking at different combinations of automation and incentives to voluntary freeze, so we don't have to do a voted freeze/release for every fluctuation in the market. The goal is to have a little more bay released than we think is needed at any (most) time. This "surplus" bay we want to be able to control into voluntary freeze/release through incentives to handle fluctuations in the need for bay. It is of course possible to handle this with a buy wall that is big enough, but we want to keep that as small as possible because money locked in a buy wall has a "lost opportunity" cost.

As to your link that shows net trade and earnings, that does not say anything about how much a currency is used. Nr. 3,5, and 6 on that list are oil nations. I'll pick nr. 6, Norway, because I know something about it. Norway has it's own currency, Norwegian kroner (Nkr). But the wast majority of Norways trade is done in US$ and euro. Much of Norways savings are also held in US$ and euro. Nkr is only used domestically. In fact, in alot of countries you would have a hard time buing local currencies for Nkr. The US$ on the other hand is used in the whole world. In several countries it's actually more wanted than the local currency.

@HouseOP: The choice of US$ is not a political statement. In fact I'm not sure if it would be possible to find political topics where the bay team would agree among our self.  

What i'm trying to relay here is that a lower value currency equal less bitbay in circulation and more injection of money to hold up walls, to maintain a peg. By the way things are looking usd will be going down in value and cny will be going up in value, no Cristal ball here but if you go around your house and you look at the bottom of the majority of your personal belongings,  i can almost a-sure you that 90% of them where made in china. The only reason i see to use the usd is because it's easier to give an equilateral in value, so it won't have to be converted to the majority of the users here in this forum. The link was to show that the USA is in a negative balance which is not good for its currency. The only reason the usd is use more around the globe is because of bombs and intimidation, guess who has the highest military funding and presents . I know this pegging is in its beta stage just putting this out ,so when decision are being factor in.

[dzimbeck]

yes your saying that it wouldn't matter because every one will just vote to do a rolling peg and we can continuously increase the peg to anther higher dollar value. But when the market roll out and the value of the usd keeps dropping then there will be lest bitbays in circulation for the market for some periods  of time.As time goes on we would vote more often to off set inflation . with cny we would freeze coin lest often and more bays in circulation for the market, not only that but the value "should" keep going up as it is now avoiding another freeze .Just thinking of the future   .Also look at this website https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html it show how much a country net trade in goods and services, plus net earnings. Guess where usa is at.

If I understand you correct, you are arguing that the choice of currency influences how often we have to freeze and release bay. That is not correct other than possibly as a minor influence on a very long term (and no one knows the future). The problems you are addressing are very relevant on the other hand; how often shall we vote for freezing or releasing bay. For instance we will have to release a lot of bay for christmas shopping (some retailers have up to 70% of their yearly sale for christmas), and then we will have to much bay available after christmas.
This is one of the hard ones, and thus one of the reason we still have pegging in the workshop. Obviously it's not practical to vote to often. Voting should be for the major decisions. So we are looking at different combinations of automation and incentives to voluntary freeze, so we don't have to do a voted freeze/release for every fluctuation in the market. The goal is to have a little more bay released than we think is needed at any (most) time. This "surplus" bay we want to be able to control into voluntary freeze/release through incentives to handle fluctuations in the need for bay. It is of course possible to handle this with a buy wall that is big enough, but we want to keep that as small as possible because money locked in a buy wall has a "lost opportunity" cost.

As to your link that shows net trade and earnings, that does not say anything about how much a currency is used. Nr. 3,5, and 6 on that list are oil nations. I'll pick nr. 6, Norway, because I know something about it. Norway has it's own currency, Norwegian kroner (Nkr). But the wast majority of Norways trade is done in US$ and euro. Much of Norways savings are also held in US$ and euro. Nkr is only used domestically. In fact, in alot of countries you would have a hard time buing local currencies for Nkr. The US$ on the other hand is used in the whole world. In several countries it's actually more wanted than the local currency.

@HouseOP: The choice of US$ is not a political statement. In fact I'm not sure if it would be possible to find political topics where the bay team would agree among our self.  

What i'm trying to relay here is that a lower value currency equal less bitbay in circulation and more injection of money to hold up walls, to maintain a peg. By the way things are looking usd will be going down in value and cny will be going up in value, no Cristal ball here but if you go around your house and you look at the bottom of the majority of your personal belongings,  i can almost a-sure you that 90% of them where made in china. The only reason i see to use the usd is because it's easier to give an equilateral in value, so it won't have to be converted to the majority of the users here in this forum. The link was to show that the USA is in a negative balance which is not good for its currency. The only reason the usd is use more around the globe is because of bombs and intimidation, guess who has the highest military funding and presents . I know this pegging is in its beta stage just putting this out ,so when decision are being factor in.

Trust me, I doubt anyone here is proud of America or the dollar. There is a stigma with the usd and pegging coins. Personally, I think a rolling peg is best. Let the price move around as long as we can deflate to catch it. If you wanted to peg at a low price, you would be able to allow more coins in circulation. The higher price (to create walls) would require us to deflate tremendously.

Imagine if we only had 50 btc walls to support $1. To be sure of that price we would be deflating maybe even 99%. So instead of focusing on that specific price, i think its best to make it a growth target (Chinese Yuan, Euro, BTC, whatever). Just deflate as you need to bring volume back into coin. Because volume is all that really matters in my opinion.

[Inotanewbie]

Bitbay cited as needed by other coins:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg10683138#msg10683138

Not really Bitbay but the lack of bitbay would have been good for crypto, because that would have allowed the main man help create awesomeness with his projects that may have taken a back seat while he figure this out

It is a shame what has happened here to him and i hope he can pull it back he surely deserves it..

David you are an honest man and your investors i hope appreciate this a awful lot.