BitBay OFFICIAL BITBAY Thread Smart Contracts Decentralized Markets Rolling Peg

[DeezCoinz]

You will probably see a lot more coins develop markets. Maybe even with halo tech or something thats just as good. The difference is who the markets are suited for, and the chance of success. Bay will be good for ordinary consumers because it will be pegged to US$, so it will have stable prices. It also has a good chance of success because it will get a flying start because of the alibaba-connection. Meaning there will be real sellers there from the start.

I thought the AliBaba connection was bunk.

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[Munti]

It was oversold a bit, but it's there.
I probably should elaborate on this one.
We all read things differently. I for one got the understanding at the IPO that the merchants from alibaba were more or less lining up to sell on bay market. That is not the case. However, Steven, the guy who took the initiative to start this coin, does have connections with merchants on alibaba. I'd be surprised if we get as many on board as we would have if this had played out differently. Merchants are like you and me. They like to be on the winning team. That's why we don't focus on on the "alibaba-connection" at the moment. Bay's reputation took a big hit, so we need to get this back on track first. Personally I think we are on our way to succeed with this, but of course there's still work to be done. As to the merchants, we do know we have a few that will be there when markets open. It will not be dealextreme volume, but there will be a range of products. If you have ever done a startup with a project that requires buyers and sellers to meet at your specific page, you know how hard it is to attract one without the other. On Bay market products will be listed from day one. That's a lot better start than many market projects get although it might not be as grandiose as I for one thought it would be.

[dzimbeck]

You will probably see a lot more coins develop markets. Maybe even with halo tech or something thats just as good. The difference is who the markets are suited for, and the chance of success. Bay will be good for ordinary consumers because it will be pegged to US$, so it will have stable prices. It also has a good chance of success because it will get a flying start because of the alibaba-connection. Meaning there will be real sellers there from the start.

I thought the AliBaba connection was bunk.

Actually the Alibaba connection is true. Steven used to work there it was a fortunate coincidence. I'm not sure to what degree he can exercise his contacts however it is really useful for networking purposes.

[deluxeCITY]

You will probably see a lot more coins develop markets. Maybe even with halo tech or something thats just as good. The difference is who the markets are suited for, and the chance of success. Bay will be good for ordinary consumers because it will be pegged to US$, so it will have stable prices. It also has a good chance of success because it will get a flying start because of the alibaba-connection. Meaning there will be real sellers there from the start.

I thought the AliBaba connection was bunk.

Actually the Alibaba connection is true. Steven used to work there it was a fortunate coincidence. I'm not sure to what degree he can exercise his contacts however it is really useful for networking purposes.

Also this project has all it's investors once pegging begins and gets a stability in price, i am sure we all know Ebay sellers who are not the happiest with 13% fee's with paypal? I am one of them plus i know other fairly high volume sellers which i will introduce once we get going, i am excited for this project and markets it is brilliant and it will take off i am confident in that.

[mitchr4]

you guys see AeroME is about to BETA Test essentially the same platform as whats purposed here?

[Gizfreak]

you guys see AeroME is about to BETA Test essentially the same platform as whats purposed here?

How do you know that? I never heard of Aero before and took a look into their roadmap and whitepaper.
I don't find anything that could give me a clue to when they will start testing nor any ETA.
Despite the fancy website, I don't see any change for Aero (or is it AM?) to even come close to what we are working on.

[dzimbeck]

Posted my first offer to BitBay. Still so much more to do. Templates, UI etc...

Notice how it automatically converts the price to dollars. This will be incredibly useful for people who are new to crypto and don't want to constantly babysit the price of alts. The moderation system is done. The reputation system of course will be worked on during templates and such(rewarding good behavior).

The way the reputation system works is "you judge what you see happen" so if you are not logged in to BitBay, you wont save to disk what people are doing.

This may encourage people to stake because they want the most up to date market data too. A way to keep the data redundant is to encourage moderators to run servers. A decentralized reputation system is really helpful for node performance too. Of course its going to have to take on a life of its own.

[3r197]

Hi all,

I'm new to Bitbay!

Got one question for now...

... can a dev explain to me how pegging can still keep a decentralized system intact?

As I'm confused...
...are we not here as a whole trying to break free from fiat centralization construct?

Trust me, I'm 'all for' a stable priced cryptocurrency, but as I've briefly glanced over Nubits tech, it seems that they 'dictate' when someone can sell their coins?
Correct me where I'm wrong as I might just not see the big picture?


I've got a few ideas of my own as to how this could work, but I'd like to hear dev's prospective on the matter first. I know this "pegging" concept is still in dev state and somewhat secretive, but as you devs have made clear - it's coming to Bitbay.  I respect the privacy on the matter, but yet, can you guaranty that it still fits the "decentralized" molding that make crypto what was, is, and hopefully should always be?
A way for people to store and transact credits and debits without a centralized bank/government 'dictating' how it's going to be done and at the owner's expense?


Thanks in advance!

[dzimbeck]

Hi all,

I'm new to Bitbay!

Got one question for now...

... can a dev explain to me how pegging can still keep a decentralized system intact?

As I'm confused...
...are we not here as a whole trying to break free from fiat centralization construct?

Trust me, I'm 'all for' a stable priced cryptocurrency, but as I've briefly glanced over Nubits tech, it seems that they 'dictate' when someone can sell their coins?
Correct me where I'm wrong as I might just not see the big picture?


I've got a few ideas of my own as to how this could work, but I'd like to hear dev's prospective on the matter first. I know this "pegging" concept is still in dev state and somewhat secretive, but as you devs have made clear - it's coming to Bitbay.  I respect the privacy on the matter, but yet, can you guaranty that it still fits the "decentralized" molding that make crypto what was, is, and hopefully should always be?
A way for people to store and transact credits and debits without a centralized bank/government 'dictating' how it's going to be done and at the owner's expense?


Thanks in advance!

Hey there, this is a wonderful question and I would like to say that perhaps the word pegging is a misnomer. Because the technique I'm actually implementing is deflation to create a stable hedge. All coins inflate. We are adding the possibility to inflate or deflate. If it deflates your coins forcefully become reserve but they become more scarce and thus more valuable. Then later we can inflate and stabilize the price. So if fiat disappears this will still be one of the most powerful features in crypto. It means we can focus less on price and more on features.

So how is deflation determined? By voting. So there is no central body who decides the inflation and deflation rates. However since there is a possibility that people will vote in their own favor, in the early days there will be a majority vote to deflate at least 90% and re-stabilize the currency.

So basically after the fork you will have coins as liquid and coins as reserve. The mining rules will not allow you to sell reserves unless there is inflation in the majority vote.


By the way, i think everything should be decentralized... I'm a purist. I dont even like Bitcoin because mining is centralized. So yeah the voting is the only caveat here and all wallets get an equal vote. And those systems will improve over time. NuBits uses custodial wallets which was way too risky and volatile to me. We are trying to change the world here and it can't happen when you fall back on old habits like trusting third parties. So I think NuBits is very lucky to have gotten this far. However it was the inspiration for my idea that I explained above.

[dzimbeck]

As above, so below

[Munti]

Hi all,

I'm new to Bitbay!

Got one question for now...

... can a dev explain to me how pegging can still keep a decentralized system intact?

As I'm confused...
...are we not here as a whole trying to break free from fiat centralization construct?

Trust me, I'm 'all for' a stable priced cryptocurrency, but as I've briefly glanced over Nubits tech, it seems that they 'dictate' when someone can sell their coins?
Correct me where I'm wrong as I might just not see the big picture?


I've got a few ideas of my own as to how this could work, but I'd like to hear dev's prospective on the matter first. I know this "pegging" concept is still in dev state and somewhat secretive, but as you devs have made clear - it's coming to Bitbay.  I respect the privacy on the matter, but yet, can you guaranty that it still fits the "decentralized" molding that make crypto what was, is, and hopefully should always be?
A way for people to store and transact credits and debits without a centralized bank/government 'dictating' how it's going to be done and at the owner's expense?


Thanks in advance!

As you said the pegging is still under development, so that limits how clear an answer we can give you. Pegging is naturally about controlling supply and demand. The easy version of it would be buy and sell walls. If we were to peg bay to its current value that would be easy with buy and sell walls. 100 bitcoin would be a pretty unbreakable buy wall at today's price. Pegging bay to $1 however would require an insane amount of bitcoin. We can use walls at those levels, but only to flatten minor movements in price. Instead of locking enormous amounts of bitcoin in a wall, we are looking at the supply instead. By freezing a percentage of the bay in everyone's wallet we reduce supply to a level where it meets demand at the price we want. This can be done in different ways, and the main difference between strategies is whether it is a voluntary freeze or a forced one. A voluntary freeze would of course only affect those that voluntarily freeze their holdings, and might be a good mechanism to handle small to medium changes in demand to the downside. The big changes to the downside and also increased demand for bay would have to be dealt with by changing the percentages of frozen bay in everyone's wallet. I assume this is what your question is about. How will that be dealt with? Who makes the decision when to freeze and release bay? This can also be handled in different ways. Main models being automated versus controlled by humans. An automated model would work very much like a trading bot, only it would freeze and release bay in everyone's wallet instead of placing orders. It would also inherit the weaknesses of a trading bot, and can be manipulated. That means we might need a team to monitor and tweak it. So the most decentralized solution would in fact be the most centralized. With humans there are two basic models. A council versus everyone voting. We are leaning towards everyone voting, because we also believe in decentralized systems.
At first glance you would think a pegging system is a straight forward thing. You just have to decide whether to use buy and sell wall or control of supply. However the devil is in the details. Should we use a hard or a soft peg for instance? I.e. do we peg it to $1 exactly or $1 +/- 20%? Do we peg it to $1 directly or do we use a rolling peg starting at say $0.01? Do we handle small fluctuations in demand the same way we handle big ones? How do we encourage the flow of bay between exchanges, merchants and consumers? There are pros and cons with everything. The choices we make on every question influences the whole system, and thus also what mechanism or mix of tools we need to use to achieve our goal.
So to answer your question: We want it to be decentralized too, and we think voting is the way to go. But voting may not be practical for every fluctuation, so it is likely that it will be used for the major decisions, and that we use other methods for handling small fluctuations.

NB. If you have ideas I'd like to hear them. Please send me a pm

[dzimbeck]

Question: How would we freeze coins that live in exchanges?

This is one of the most important questions. Basically, they need to keep track of inflation and when an input has arrived. I'm going to have an application for the exchanges to calculate the inputs properly. They will probably want to add a coin class called "BitBay Reserve" and when inflation happens. BitBay and BitBay Reserve get updated. And when trading, the exchange will need to only know when the trade took place to calculate interest accurately.

If the exchange does not do this, they will oversell the coin and then will not be able to honor withdraws (the withdraws would get declined). BTER is our primary contact for this. They already have NuBits and BitUSD so they are one of the most friendly exchanges with pegging assets.

We need to have trust in the exchange. However, we can certainly buy and sell coins inside the BitBay or NightTrader markets.

[3r197]

Hi all,

I'm new to Bitbay!

Got one question for now...

... can a dev explain to me how pegging can still keep a decentralized system intact?

As I'm confused...
...are we not here as a whole trying to break free from fiat centralization construct?

Trust me, I'm 'all for' a stable priced cryptocurrency, but as I've briefly glanced over Nubits tech, it seems that they 'dictate' when someone can sell their coins?
Correct me where I'm wrong as I might just not see the big picture?


I've got a few ideas of my own as to how this could work, but I'd like to hear dev's prospective on the matter first. I know this "pegging" concept is still in dev state and somewhat secretive, but as you devs have made clear - it's coming to Bitbay.  I respect the privacy on the matter, but yet, can you guaranty that it still fits the "decentralized" molding that make crypto what was, is, and hopefully should always be?
A way for people to store and transact credits and debits without a centralized bank/government 'dictating' how it's going to be done and at the owner's expense?


Thanks in advance!

As you said the pegging is still under development, so that limits how clear an answer we can give you. Pegging is naturally about controlling supply and demand. The easy version of it would be buy and sell walls. If we were to peg bay to its current value that would be easy with buy and sell walls. 100 bitcoin would be a pretty unbreakable buy wall at today's price. Pegging bay to $1 however would require an insane amount of bitcoin. We can use walls at those levels, but only to flatten minor movements in price. Instead of locking enormous amounts of bitcoin in a wall, we are looking at the supply instead. By freezing a percentage of the bay in everyone's wallet we reduce supply to a level where it meets demand at the price we want. This can be done in different ways, and the main difference between strategies is whether it is a voluntary freeze or a forced one. A voluntary freeze would of course only affect those that voluntarily freeze their holdings, and might be a good mechanism to handle small to medium changes in demand to the downside. The big changes to the downside and also increased demand for bay would have to be dealt with by changing the percentages of frozen bay in everyone's wallet. I assume this is what your question is about. How will that be dealt with? Who makes the decision when to freeze and release bay? This can also be handled in different ways. Main models being automated versus controlled by humans. An automated model would work very much like a trading bot, only it would freeze and release bay in everyone's wallet instead of placing orders. It would also inherit the weaknesses of a trading bot, and can be manipulated. That means we might need a team to monitor and tweak it. So the most decentralized solution would in fact be the most centralized. With humans there are two basic models. A council versus everyone voting. We are leaning towards everyone voting, because we also believe in decentralized systems.
At first glance you would think a pegging system is a straight forward thing. You just have to decide whether to use buy and sell wall or control of supply. However the devil is in the details. Should we use a hard or a soft peg for instance? I.e. do we peg it to $1 exactly or $1 +/- 20%? Do we peg it to $1 directly or do we use a rolling peg starting at say $0.01? Do we handle small fluctuations in demand the same way we handle big ones? How do we encourage the flow of bay between exchanges, merchants and consumers? There are pros and cons with everything. The choices we make on every question influences the whole system, and thus also what mechanism or mix of tools we need to use to achieve our goal.
So to answer your question: We want it to be decentralized too, and we think voting is the way to go. But voting may not be practical for every fluctuation, so it is likely that it will be used for the major decisions, and that we use other methods for handling small fluctuations.

NB. If you have ideas I'd like to hear them. Please send me a pm

Thanks for the responses Munti and Dzimbeck.

I've got to work today and do valentines. I'll PM you guys on Sunday.

Did you guys see the latest gossip on Blackcoin's www.exco.in    Pretty damaging PR to say the least.

Cheers!

[3r197]

One other quick idea to throw out there before I'm off to work.

Is there anyway the pegging could be based on keeping Bitbay stabilized comparable to a commodity like, gold, silver, etc... rather than the US dollar?? Because in general, if a coin is based off the dollar then it's going to do nothing but lose value over time 

[Kevinrasf]

One other quick idea to throw out there before I'm off to work.

Is there anyway the pegging could be based on keeping Bitbay stabilized comparable to a commodity like, gold, silver, etc... rather than the US dollar?? Because in general, if a coin is based off the dollar then it's going to do nothing but lose value over time 

Well gold or silver can lose their value as well.

There is nothing in this world with a stable value I guess

[Gizfreak]

One other quick idea to throw out there before I'm off to work.

Is there anyway the pegging could be based on keeping Bitbay stabilized comparable to a commodity like, gold, silver, etc... rather than the US dollar?? Because in general, if a coin is based off the dollar then it's going to do nothing but lose value over time 

You got a point when you say that the golden days of the USD are over and pegging with USD in mind is betting on the wrong horse.
As it looks now the Chinese Yuan would be a better idea indeed. Pairing it to commodities like gold or silver or whatever, is a risky business imo.

[dzimbeck]

Hi all,

I'm new to Bitbay!

Got one question for now...

... can a dev explain to me how pegging can still keep a decentralized system intact?

As I'm confused...
...are we not here as a whole trying to break free from fiat centralization construct?

Trust me, I'm 'all for' a stable priced cryptocurrency, but as I've briefly glanced over Nubits tech, it seems that they 'dictate' when someone can sell their coins?
Correct me where I'm wrong as I might just not see the big picture?


I've got a few ideas of my own as to how this could work, but I'd like to hear dev's prospective on the matter first. I know this "pegging" concept is still in dev state and somewhat secretive, but as you devs have made clear - it's coming to Bitbay.  I respect the privacy on the matter, but yet, can you guaranty that it still fits the "decentralized" molding that make crypto what was, is, and hopefully should always be?
A way for people to store and transact credits and debits without a centralized bank/government 'dictating' how it's going to be done and at the owner's expense?


Thanks in advance!

As you said the pegging is still under development, so that limits how clear an answer we can give you. Pegging is naturally about controlling supply and demand. The easy version of it would be buy and sell walls. If we were to peg bay to its current value that would be easy with buy and sell walls. 100 bitcoin would be a pretty unbreakable buy wall at today's price. Pegging bay to $1 however would require an insane amount of bitcoin. We can use walls at those levels, but only to flatten minor movements in price. Instead of locking enormous amounts of bitcoin in a wall, we are looking at the supply instead. By freezing a percentage of the bay in everyone's wallet we reduce supply to a level where it meets demand at the price we want. This can be done in different ways, and the main difference between strategies is whether it is a voluntary freeze or a forced one. A voluntary freeze would of course only affect those that voluntarily freeze their holdings, and might be a good mechanism to handle small to medium changes in demand to the downside. The big changes to the downside and also increased demand for bay would have to be dealt with by changing the percentages of frozen bay in everyone's wallet. I assume this is what your question is about. How will that be dealt with? Who makes the decision when to freeze and release bay? This can also be handled in different ways. Main models being automated versus controlled by humans. An automated model would work very much like a trading bot, only it would freeze and release bay in everyone's wallet instead of placing orders. It would also inherit the weaknesses of a trading bot, and can be manipulated. That means we might need a team to monitor and tweak it. So the most decentralized solution would in fact be the most centralized. With humans there are two basic models. A council versus everyone voting. We are leaning towards everyone voting, because we also believe in decentralized systems.
At first glance you would think a pegging system is a straight forward thing. You just have to decide whether to use buy and sell wall or control of supply. However the devil is in the details. Should we use a hard or a soft peg for instance? I.e. do we peg it to $1 exactly or $1 +/- 20%? Do we peg it to $1 directly or do we use a rolling peg starting at say $0.01? Do we handle small fluctuations in demand the same way we handle big ones? How do we encourage the flow of bay between exchanges, merchants and consumers? There are pros and cons with everything. The choices we make on every question influences the whole system, and thus also what mechanism or mix of tools we need to use to achieve our goal.
So to answer your question: We want it to be decentralized too, and we think voting is the way to go. But voting may not be practical for every fluctuation, so it is likely that it will be used for the major decisions, and that we use other methods for handling small fluctuations.

NB. If you have ideas I'd like to hear them. Please send me a pm

This was a really good explanation. Its exactly how I would have described it. Thanks for the input. I'm really thinking a "rolling hedge/peg" is superior to a hard peg. Because why not grow the price to get the volume? Then the walls required would be lower and adoption higher. After we have found stability, we can vote only to maintain it. The beauty is, we don't have to depend on centralized custodial wallets.

[Mig-23]

cant wait for pegging plan,.. 

[silavon]

 

https://bter.com/

[amytheplanarshift]

https://bter.com/

Yeah, I'm glad I don't have any coin there. That message does not sound too good.