pugman
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Activity: 2383
Merit: 1551
dogs are cute.
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March 28, 2016, 10:25:35 PM |
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Well that's great news for BitBay!
But I don't know if it will be the first decentralized market in the history of the world, since Syscoin is planning it's release in the next few weeks. And Sys has a headstart, since it's on Azure for marketing and on Poloniex for trade.
What are you talking about? Decentralized markets have worked in BitBay and Halo for over a YEAR. It was certainly the first decentralized markets in the world. Also its not blockchain based and doesnt face scaling issues of other markets. And who cares about Azure? Microsoft gatekeepers... not so decentralized. Its irrelevant to the claim of markets. haha Zimbeck just burned that guys house down  |
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Munti
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March 28, 2016, 10:29:43 PM
Last edit: March 28, 2016, 10:40:06 PM by Munti |
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BAYHQ is a new account and can therefore not post pics yet, so I'll do it. As David said, we have had the client out for more than a year now. After thoroughly testing it's time to move out of beta. That's a big occasion and we thought you might like to get an overview of what is accomplished and what is to come |
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funsponge
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March 28, 2016, 10:52:21 PM |
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Great work David! You are the Bill Gates of Crypto! Looking forward to using the Market and to seeing the pegging up and running!
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Wosterlee
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March 28, 2016, 11:17:20 PM |
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Well that's great news for BitBay!
But I don't know if it will be the first decentralized market in the history of the world, since Syscoin is planning it's release in the next few weeks. And Sys has a headstart, since it's on Azure for marketing and on Poloniex for trade.
What are you talking about? Decentralized markets have worked in BitBay and Halo for over a YEAR. It was certainly the first decentralized markets in the world. Also its not blockchain based and doesnt face scaling issues of other markets. And who cares about Azure? Microsoft gatekeepers... not so decentralized. Its irrelevant to the claim of markets. haha Zimbeck just burned that guys house down Yeah, I deserved it. I should read up on this stuff before I start posting.  |
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cryptohunter
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Activity: 2100
Merit: 1167
MY RED TRUST LEFT BY SCUMBAGS - READ MY SIG
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March 28, 2016, 11:23:20 PM |
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Is it possible to make the market place work with auctions?
Is the reason it will not work as an auction something to do with the name?
If that is preventing us having auctions on the market place i think we should change the name. Auctions are very popular.
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Munti
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March 28, 2016, 11:36:40 PM |
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Is it possible to make the market place work with auctions?
Is the reason it will not work as an auction something to do with the name?
If that is preventing us having auctions on the market place i think we should change the name. Auctions are very popular.
Of course it is possible to make the market place work with auctions. David sees it as part of the buy/sell anything template, so it's on the roadmap |
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3r197
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March 28, 2016, 11:37:13 PM |
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Is it possible to make the market place work with auctions?
Is the reason it will not work as an auction something to do with the name?
If that is preventing us having auctions on the market place i think we should change the name. Auctions are very popular.
Here is a screenshot of a reverse auction. https://i.imgur.com/virQBTY.jpgOther screenshot links can be seen back on page 126 That screenshot was from May of 2015, so don't know if he's added anything to it or not. |
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cryptohunter
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Activity: 2100
Merit: 1167
MY RED TRUST LEFT BY SCUMBAGS - READ MY SIG
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March 28, 2016, 11:53:52 PM |
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Is it possible to make the market place work with auctions?
Is the reason it will not work as an auction something to do with the name?
If that is preventing us having auctions on the market place i think we should change the name. Auctions are very popular.
Here is a screenshot of a reverse auction. https://i.imgur.com/virQBTY.jpgOther screenshot links can be seen back on page 126 That screenshot was from May of 2015, so don't know if he's added anything to it or not. Yeah i was sure it did but I just noticed someone said it didnt on the main thread. |
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sidhujag
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Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
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March 29, 2016, 01:45:22 AM
Last edit: March 29, 2016, 02:00:59 AM by sidhujag |
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Well that's great news for BitBay!
But I don't know if it will be the first decentralized market in the history of the world, since Syscoin is planning it's release in the next few weeks. And Sys has a headstart, since it's on Azure for marketing and on Poloniex for trade.
What are you talking about? Decentralized markets have worked in BitBay and Halo for over a YEAR. It was certainly the first decentralized markets in the world. Also its not blockchain based and doesnt face scaling issues of other markets. And who cares about Azure? Microsoft gatekeepers... not so decentralized. Its irrelevant to the claim of markets. Syscoin has had a decentralized market since Nov 8, 2014 on mainnet. I don't think the scaling issue outweighs the usefulness it provides over a p2p marketplace To that effect the next gen sys has also been in the works for more than a year, so similar to bay's new release with templates.. they were both released around the same time although not sure if bay has a functional market running on mainnet or release? Anyways I think Wosterlee does have a point because bad marketing can kill projects regardless of the cool tech under the hood. Btw I thought I read somewhere that Shadowcoin is also marketing itself to be the "world" first decentralized marketplace although it may have been changed now that dates were pushed back for them, I just remember seeing it in some of their images. It really doesn't matter the only real first is the one who gets to average joe. |
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Munti
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March 29, 2016, 05:13:01 AM
Last edit: March 29, 2016, 05:24:50 AM by Munti |
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Well that's great news for BitBay!
But I don't know if it will be the first decentralized market in the history of the world, since Syscoin is planning it's release in the next few weeks. And Sys has a headstart, since it's on Azure for marketing and on Poloniex for trade.
What are you talking about? Decentralized markets have worked in BitBay and Halo for over a YEAR. It was certainly the first decentralized markets in the world. Also its not blockchain based and doesnt face scaling issues of other markets. And who cares about Azure? Microsoft gatekeepers... not so decentralized. Its irrelevant to the claim of markets. Syscoin has had a decentralized market since Nov 8, 2014 on mainnet. I don't think the scaling issue outweighs the usefulness it provides over a p2p marketplace To that effect the next gen sys has also been in the works for more than a year, so similar to bay's new release with templates.. they were both released around the same time although not sure if bay has a functional market running on mainnet or release? Anyways I think Wosterlee does have a point because bad marketing can kill projects regardless of the cool tech under the hood. Btw I thought I read somewhere that Shadowcoin is also marketing itself to be the "world" first decentralized marketplace although it may have been changed now that dates were pushed back for them, I just remember seeing it in some of their images. It really doesn't matter the only real first is the one who gets to average joe. The reason to build decentralized markets is to get rid of middlemen in my opinion. From what I have heard, Shadowcoin plan to build a decentralized market -just not the worlds first. Other than BitBay and Shadowcoin I don't know of any other truly decentralized market either existing or in planning. Other projects like openbazar and syscoin build on decentralized technology, but depend on escrow agent. Imo that doesn't qualify to the term "decentralized market" any more than your price calculator in syscoin qualifies to the term "pegging" that you slapped on it.  |
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3r197
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March 29, 2016, 11:22:18 AM |
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The reason to build decentralized markets is to get rid of middlemen in my opinion. From what I have heard, Shadowcoin plan to build a decentralized market -just not the worlds first. Other than BitBay and Shadowcoin I don't know of any other truly decentralized market either existing or in planning. Other projects like openbazar and syscoin build on decentralized technology, but depend on escrow agent. Imo that doesn't qualify to the term "decentralized market" any more than your price calculator in syscoin qualifies to the term "pegging" that you slapped on it. How 'is' their peg set up? Has it already been implemented? |
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Munti
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March 29, 2016, 12:03:25 PM |
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The reason to build decentralized markets is to get rid of middlemen in my opinion. From what I have heard, Shadowcoin plan to build a decentralized market -just not the worlds first. Other than BitBay and Shadowcoin I don't know of any other truly decentralized market either existing or in planning. Other projects like openbazar and syscoin build on decentralized technology, but depend on escrow agent. Imo that doesn't qualify to the term "decentralized market" any more than your price calculator in syscoin qualifies to the term "pegging" that you slapped on it. How 'is' their peg set up? Has it already been implemented? It's not a peg like the rest of the world uses the term. It's more like our price tracking |
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wosch76
Legendary
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Activity: 942
Merit: 1026
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March 29, 2016, 12:04:33 PM |
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First Decentralised Market Release - APRIL 2016 Date:28th March 2016 ... Also, we have recently been in contact with Microsoft Azure and their requirements to join would delay the final release of the Bitbay client. We would rather complete the client and focus on its integration into other services. A more detailed post has already been made by David on Slack. Please take into consideration why NEM has refused to be added to azure for now. http://blog.nem.io/status-on-the-azure-project/and the article linked in the blogpost http://bitcoinist.net/microsoft-bullies-open-source-is-the-blockchain-their-next-target/what would be the advantage of joining Azure for a decentralised market if there is any? |
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3r197
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March 29, 2016, 12:25:54 PM |
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First Decentralised Market Release - APRIL 2016 Date:28th March 2016 ... Also, we have recently been in contact with Microsoft Azure and their requirements to join would delay the final release of the Bitbay client. We would rather complete the client and focus on its integration into other services. A more detailed post has already been made by David on Slack. Please take into consideration why NEM has refused to be added to azure for now. http://blog.nem.io/status-on-the-azure-project/and the article linked in the blogpost http://bitcoinist.net/microsoft-bullies-open-source-is-the-blockchain-their-next-target/what would be the advantage of joining Azure for a decentralised market if there is any? All good points! Thanks for the links. I totally agree. |
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sidhujag
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Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
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March 29, 2016, 07:46:37 PM
Last edit: March 29, 2016, 08:19:15 PM by sidhujag |
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Well that's great news for BitBay!
But I don't know if it will be the first decentralized market in the history of the world, since Syscoin is planning it's release in the next few weeks. And Sys has a headstart, since it's on Azure for marketing and on Poloniex for trade.
What are you talking about? Decentralized markets have worked in BitBay and Halo for over a YEAR. It was certainly the first decentralized markets in the world. Also its not blockchain based and doesnt face scaling issues of other markets. And who cares about Azure? Microsoft gatekeepers... not so decentralized. Its irrelevant to the claim of markets. Syscoin has had a decentralized market since Nov 8, 2014 on mainnet. I don't think the scaling issue outweighs the usefulness it provides over a p2p marketplace To that effect the next gen sys has also been in the works for more than a year, so similar to bay's new release with templates.. they were both released around the same time although not sure if bay has a functional market running on mainnet or release? Anyways I think Wosterlee does have a point because bad marketing can kill projects regardless of the cool tech under the hood. Btw I thought I read somewhere that Shadowcoin is also marketing itself to be the "world" first decentralized marketplace although it may have been changed now that dates were pushed back for them, I just remember seeing it in some of their images. It really doesn't matter the only real first is the one who gets to average joe. The reason to build decentralized markets is to get rid of middlemen in my opinion. From what I have heard, Shadowcoin plan to build a decentralized market -just not the worlds first. Other than BitBay and Shadowcoin I don't know of any other truly decentralized market either existing or in planning. Other projects like openbazar and syscoin build on decentralized technology, but depend on escrow agent. Imo that doesn't qualify to the term "decentralized market" any more than your price calculator in syscoin qualifies to the term "pegging" that you slapped on it. Syscoin does not "depend" on escrow agents, you don't have to use escrow although it is recommended (esp if you dont know the seller). I don't think you understand decentralization (hint it's about choice)... then by definition multisig transactions are not decentralized according to you and by definition bitcoin is not decentralized and by definition none of these coins are aswell and CLTV is centralized. The 2 of 3 escrow the is quickest way to achieve network affect... the world does not understand DDE enough to "get it" unless you have a multi-million dollar budget for marketing which you don't. It a simple design either way. The pegging is not as involved as David's design because it is not intended to be, recently I have made it so that it is also decentralized now as anyone can stand up their own "alias pegs" and merchants can choose who they wish to use as the pegging (price tracking)... what else is a peg supposed to be used for in a marketplace? I'm a fan of separating concerns (KISS) and too many cogs in the wheels need exponential funds in marketing. You can ofcourse fall back to SYS_RATES which the team manages but you are not forced to. |
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Munti
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March 29, 2016, 08:57:09 PM |
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Well that's great news for BitBay!
But I don't know if it will be the first decentralized market in the history of the world, since Syscoin is planning it's release in the next few weeks. And Sys has a headstart, since it's on Azure for marketing and on Poloniex for trade.
What are you talking about? Decentralized markets have worked in BitBay and Halo for over a YEAR. It was certainly the first decentralized markets in the world. Also its not blockchain based and doesnt face scaling issues of other markets. And who cares about Azure? Microsoft gatekeepers... not so decentralized. Its irrelevant to the claim of markets. Syscoin has had a decentralized market since Nov 8, 2014 on mainnet. I don't think the scaling issue outweighs the usefulness it provides over a p2p marketplace To that effect the next gen sys has also been in the works for more than a year, so similar to bay's new release with templates.. they were both released around the same time although not sure if bay has a functional market running on mainnet or release? Anyways I think Wosterlee does have a point because bad marketing can kill projects regardless of the cool tech under the hood. Btw I thought I read somewhere that Shadowcoin is also marketing itself to be the "world" first decentralized marketplace although it may have been changed now that dates were pushed back for them, I just remember seeing it in some of their images. It really doesn't matter the only real first is the one who gets to average joe. The reason to build decentralized markets is to get rid of middlemen in my opinion. From what I have heard, Shadowcoin plan to build a decentralized market -just not the worlds first. Other than BitBay and Shadowcoin I don't know of any other truly decentralized market either existing or in planning. Other projects like openbazar and syscoin build on decentralized technology, but depend on escrow agent. Imo that doesn't qualify to the term "decentralized market" any more than your price calculator in syscoin qualifies to the term "pegging" that you slapped on it. Syscoin does not "depend" on escrow agents, you don't have to use escrow although it is recommended (esp if you dont know the seller). I don't think you understand decentralization (hint it's about choice)... then by definition multisig transactions are not decentralized according to you and by definition bitcoin is not decentralized and by definition none of these coins are aswell and CLTV is centralized. The 2 of 3 escrow the is quickest way to achieve network affect... the world does not understand DDE enough to "get it" unless you have a multi-million dollar budget for marketing which you don't. It a simple design either way. The pegging is not as involved as David's design because it is not intended to be, recently I have made it so that it is also decentralized now as anyone can stand up their own "alias pegs" and merchants can choose who they wish to use as the pegging (price tracking)... what else is a peg supposed to be used for in a marketplace? I'm a fan of separating concerns (KISS) and too many cogs in the wheels need exponential funds in marketing. You can ofcourse fall back to SYS_RATES which the team manages but you are not forced to. So you're saying that decentralization is about being able to choose who the middle man should be. Or, against your recommendation, choosing not to transact safely. Well, I beg to differ. Really nothing more to say about that. |
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sidhujag
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
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March 29, 2016, 09:00:23 PM |
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Well that's great news for BitBay!
But I don't know if it will be the first decentralized market in the history of the world, since Syscoin is planning it's release in the next few weeks. And Sys has a headstart, since it's on Azure for marketing and on Poloniex for trade.
What are you talking about? Decentralized markets have worked in BitBay and Halo for over a YEAR. It was certainly the first decentralized markets in the world. Also its not blockchain based and doesnt face scaling issues of other markets. And who cares about Azure? Microsoft gatekeepers... not so decentralized. Its irrelevant to the claim of markets. Syscoin has had a decentralized market since Nov 8, 2014 on mainnet. I don't think the scaling issue outweighs the usefulness it provides over a p2p marketplace To that effect the next gen sys has also been in the works for more than a year, so similar to bay's new release with templates.. they were both released around the same time although not sure if bay has a functional market running on mainnet or release? Anyways I think Wosterlee does have a point because bad marketing can kill projects regardless of the cool tech under the hood. Btw I thought I read somewhere that Shadowcoin is also marketing itself to be the "world" first decentralized marketplace although it may have been changed now that dates were pushed back for them, I just remember seeing it in some of their images. It really doesn't matter the only real first is the one who gets to average joe. The reason to build decentralized markets is to get rid of middlemen in my opinion. From what I have heard, Shadowcoin plan to build a decentralized market -just not the worlds first. Other than BitBay and Shadowcoin I don't know of any other truly decentralized market either existing or in planning. Other projects like openbazar and syscoin build on decentralized technology, but depend on escrow agent. Imo that doesn't qualify to the term "decentralized market" any more than your price calculator in syscoin qualifies to the term "pegging" that you slapped on it. Syscoin does not "depend" on escrow agents, you don't have to use escrow although it is recommended (esp if you dont know the seller). I don't think you understand decentralization (hint it's about choice)... then by definition multisig transactions are not decentralized according to you and by definition bitcoin is not decentralized and by definition none of these coins are aswell and CLTV is centralized. The 2 of 3 escrow the is quickest way to achieve network affect... the world does not understand DDE enough to "get it" unless you have a multi-million dollar budget for marketing which you don't. It a simple design either way. The pegging is not as involved as David's design because it is not intended to be, recently I have made it so that it is also decentralized now as anyone can stand up their own "alias pegs" and merchants can choose who they wish to use as the pegging (price tracking)... what else is a peg supposed to be used for in a marketplace? I'm a fan of separating concerns (KISS) and too many cogs in the wheels need exponential funds in marketing. You can ofcourse fall back to SYS_RATES which the team manages but you are not forced to. So you're saying that decentralization is about being able to choose who the middle man should be. Or, against your recommendation, choosing not to transact safely. Well, I beg to differ. Really nothing more to say about that. your talking about TRUST and not CENTRALIZATION.. DDE is trustless, syscoin is decentralized... syscoin's escrow is trustful through a 2 of 3 multisig, bitbays is trustless.. both have pro's and con's. |
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dzimbeck
Legendary
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Activity: 2412
Merit: 1044
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March 30, 2016, 07:30:54 AM |
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Well that's great news for BitBay!
But I don't know if it will be the first decentralized market in the history of the world, since Syscoin is planning it's release in the next few weeks. And Sys has a headstart, since it's on Azure for marketing and on Poloniex for trade.
What are you talking about? Decentralized markets have worked in BitBay and Halo for over a YEAR. It was certainly the first decentralized markets in the world. Also its not blockchain based and doesnt face scaling issues of other markets. And who cares about Azure? Microsoft gatekeepers... not so decentralized. Its irrelevant to the claim of markets. Syscoin has had a decentralized market since Nov 8, 2014 on mainnet. I don't think the scaling issue outweighs the usefulness it provides over a p2p marketplace To that effect the next gen sys has also been in the works for more than a year, so similar to bay's new release with templates.. they were both released around the same time although not sure if bay has a functional market running on mainnet or release? Anyways I think Wosterlee does have a point because bad marketing can kill projects regardless of the cool tech under the hood. Btw I thought I read somewhere that Shadowcoin is also marketing itself to be the "world" first decentralized marketplace although it may have been changed now that dates were pushed back for them, I just remember seeing it in some of their images. It really doesn't matter the only real first is the one who gets to average joe. The reason to build decentralized markets is to get rid of middlemen in my opinion. From what I have heard, Shadowcoin plan to build a decentralized market -just not the worlds first. Other than BitBay and Shadowcoin I don't know of any other truly decentralized market either existing or in planning. Other projects like openbazar and syscoin build on decentralized technology, but depend on escrow agent. Imo that doesn't qualify to the term "decentralized market" any more than your price calculator in syscoin qualifies to the term "pegging" that you slapped on it. Syscoin does not "depend" on escrow agents, you don't have to use escrow although it is recommended (esp if you dont know the seller). I don't think you understand decentralization (hint it's about choice)... then by definition multisig transactions are not decentralized according to you and by definition bitcoin is not decentralized and by definition none of these coins are aswell and CLTV is centralized. The 2 of 3 escrow the is quickest way to achieve network affect... the world does not understand DDE enough to "get it" unless you have a multi-million dollar budget for marketing which you don't. It a simple design either way. The pegging is not as involved as David's design because it is not intended to be, recently I have made it so that it is also decentralized now as anyone can stand up their own "alias pegs" and merchants can choose who they wish to use as the pegging (price tracking)... what else is a peg supposed to be used for in a marketplace? I'm a fan of separating concerns (KISS) and too many cogs in the wheels need exponential funds in marketing. You can ofcourse fall back to SYS_RATES which the team manages but you are not forced to. So you're saying that decentralization is about being able to choose who the middle man should be. Or, against your recommendation, choosing not to transact safely. Well, I beg to differ. Really nothing more to say about that. your talking about TRUST and not CENTRALIZATION.. DDE is trustless, syscoin is decentralized... syscoin's escrow is trustful through a 2 of 3 multisig, bitbays is trustless.. both have pro's and con's. Either way its a healthy debate. We don't have the money to market it, you are right. And maybe we never will but somebody had to make DDE based markets. Think of it this way, Napster was a P2P music sharing platform and it was the "first" and eventually failed. BUT Napster paved the way for newer and better platforms. You know, Kazaa came next, then E-Mule, then eventually uTorrent. Haha we grew up with this stuff I really admire and respect what you do at sys! The fact that we have such different business models in my opinion doesn't really qualify us as competitors. And even if we were, this is all open source so I hope you and other projects take ideas as you need them. If we are all about decentralization then eventually crypto can go beyond "X Coin, Y Coin, Z Coin" So all the good tech will get integrated into the projects that care enough to build it out. Your project clearly qualifies as one of them. I've said it before and will say again. As long as the idea of DDE survives, I've done my job. Society needs to evolve like you said... 1st they need to understand what bitcoin even is 2nd they need to actually USE bitcoin instead of gamble on it 3rd they need to start caring about using platforms that are resistant to theft and DDOS 4th they would have to start looking at altcoins 5th they would need to use altcoins 6th they would then use a trusted escrow (syscoin) 7th they would realize the power of two party escrow/DDE/Nash Equilibrium/Ultimatum Game/etc Society has a lot of growing to do. And honestly there is like 50 more steps missing from that ladder. Because in order for them to go to trustless tech, they need to lose trust in escrow/merchants/governments I've pretty much lost trust in REALITY hahaha so it made sense that I would go and make something like this. LOOK at how Mt Gox, Mintpal, BTER, etc etc... EVERY place that was centralized or had an escrow went down ALL of them. And what do people do? They come back for more punishment! Still no decentralized exchange! So it will take some time for people to finally decide that trustless is better until humanity matures enough to stop telling lies. Hopefully the peg will draw enough attention that people will market it for us. And we are easily months away from that. By the way, you are adding a pegging system? Is this a voluntary parking system using checklocktimeverify? Or is it something more exotic? |
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Munti
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March 30, 2016, 08:18:31 AM |
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Well that's great news for BitBay!
But I don't know if it will be the first decentralized market in the history of the world, since Syscoin is planning it's release in the next few weeks. And Sys has a headstart, since it's on Azure for marketing and on Poloniex for trade.
What are you talking about? Decentralized markets have worked in BitBay and Halo for over a YEAR. It was certainly the first decentralized markets in the world. Also its not blockchain based and doesnt face scaling issues of other markets. And who cares about Azure? Microsoft gatekeepers... not so decentralized. Its irrelevant to the claim of markets. Syscoin has had a decentralized market since Nov 8, 2014 on mainnet. I don't think the scaling issue outweighs the usefulness it provides over a p2p marketplace To that effect the next gen sys has also been in the works for more than a year, so similar to bay's new release with templates.. they were both released around the same time although not sure if bay has a functional market running on mainnet or release? Anyways I think Wosterlee does have a point because bad marketing can kill projects regardless of the cool tech under the hood. Btw I thought I read somewhere that Shadowcoin is also marketing itself to be the "world" first decentralized marketplace although it may have been changed now that dates were pushed back for them, I just remember seeing it in some of their images. It really doesn't matter the only real first is the one who gets to average joe. The reason to build decentralized markets is to get rid of middlemen in my opinion. From what I have heard, Shadowcoin plan to build a decentralized market -just not the worlds first. Other than BitBay and Shadowcoin I don't know of any other truly decentralized market either existing or in planning. Other projects like openbazar and syscoin build on decentralized technology, but depend on escrow agent. Imo that doesn't qualify to the term "decentralized market" any more than your price calculator in syscoin qualifies to the term "pegging" that you slapped on it. Syscoin does not "depend" on escrow agents, you don't have to use escrow although it is recommended (esp if you dont know the seller). I don't think you understand decentralization (hint it's about choice)... then by definition multisig transactions are not decentralized according to you and by definition bitcoin is not decentralized and by definition none of these coins are aswell and CLTV is centralized. The 2 of 3 escrow the is quickest way to achieve network affect... the world does not understand DDE enough to "get it" unless you have a multi-million dollar budget for marketing which you don't. It a simple design either way. The pegging is not as involved as David's design because it is not intended to be, recently I have made it so that it is also decentralized now as anyone can stand up their own "alias pegs" and merchants can choose who they wish to use as the pegging (price tracking)... what else is a peg supposed to be used for in a marketplace? I'm a fan of separating concerns (KISS) and too many cogs in the wheels need exponential funds in marketing. You can ofcourse fall back to SYS_RATES which the team manages but you are not forced to. So you're saying that decentralization is about being able to choose who the middle man should be. Or, against your recommendation, choosing not to transact safely. Well, I beg to differ. Really nothing more to say about that. your talking about TRUST and not CENTRALIZATION.. DDE is trustless, syscoin is decentralized... syscoin's escrow is trustful through a 2 of 3 multisig, bitbays is trustless.. both have pro's and con's. Either way its a healthy debate. We don't have the money to market it, you are right. And maybe we never will but somebody had to make DDE based markets. Think of it this way, Napster was a P2P music sharing platform and it was the "first" and eventually failed. BUT Napster paved the way for newer and better platforms. You know, Kazaa came next, then E-Mule, then eventually uTorrent. Haha we grew up with this stuff I really admire and respect what you do at sys! The fact that we have such different business models in my opinion doesn't really qualify us as competitors. And even if we were, this is all open source so I hope you and other projects take ideas as you need them. If we are all about decentralization then eventually crypto can go beyond "X Coin, Y Coin, Z Coin" So all the good tech will get integrated into the projects that care enough to build it out. Your project clearly qualifies as one of them. I've said it before and will say again. As long as the idea of DDE survives, I've done my job. Society needs to evolve like you said... 1st they need to understand what bitcoin even is 2nd they need to actually USE bitcoin instead of gamble on it 3rd they need to start caring about using platforms that are resistant to theft and DDOS 4th they would have to start looking at altcoins 5th they would need to use altcoins 6th they would then use a trusted escrow (syscoin) 7th they would realize the power of two party escrow/DDE/Nash Equilibrium/Ultimatum Game/etc Society has a lot of growing to do. And honestly there is like 50 more steps missing from that ladder. Because in order for them to go to trustless tech, they need to lose trust in escrow/merchants/governments I've pretty much lost trust in REALITY hahaha so it made sense that I would go and make something like this. LOOK at how Mt Gox, Mintpal, BTER, etc etc... EVERY place that was centralized or had an escrow went down ALL of them. And what do people do? They come back for more punishment! Still no decentralized exchange! So it will take some time for people to finally decide that trustless is better until humanity matures enough to stop telling lies. Hopefully the peg will draw enough attention that people will market it for us. And we are easily months away from that. By the way, you are adding a pegging system? Is this a voluntary parking system using checklocktimeverify? Or is it something more exotic? Syscoin does not have or plan pegging. They misuse the term for marketing reasons I believe |
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sidhujag
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
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March 30, 2016, 02:59:24 PM |
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Well that's great news for BitBay!
But I don't know if it will be the first decentralized market in the history of the world, since Syscoin is planning it's release in the next few weeks. And Sys has a headstart, since it's on Azure for marketing and on Poloniex for trade.
What are you talking about? Decentralized markets have worked in BitBay and Halo for over a YEAR. It was certainly the first decentralized markets in the world. Also its not blockchain based and doesnt face scaling issues of other markets. And who cares about Azure? Microsoft gatekeepers... not so decentralized. Its irrelevant to the claim of markets. Syscoin has had a decentralized market since Nov 8, 2014 on mainnet. I don't think the scaling issue outweighs the usefulness it provides over a p2p marketplace To that effect the next gen sys has also been in the works for more than a year, so similar to bay's new release with templates.. they were both released around the same time although not sure if bay has a functional market running on mainnet or release? Anyways I think Wosterlee does have a point because bad marketing can kill projects regardless of the cool tech under the hood. Btw I thought I read somewhere that Shadowcoin is also marketing itself to be the "world" first decentralized marketplace although it may have been changed now that dates were pushed back for them, I just remember seeing it in some of their images. It really doesn't matter the only real first is the one who gets to average joe. The reason to build decentralized markets is to get rid of middlemen in my opinion. From what I have heard, Shadowcoin plan to build a decentralized market -just not the worlds first. Other than BitBay and Shadowcoin I don't know of any other truly decentralized market either existing or in planning. Other projects like openbazar and syscoin build on decentralized technology, but depend on escrow agent. Imo that doesn't qualify to the term "decentralized market" any more than your price calculator in syscoin qualifies to the term "pegging" that you slapped on it. Syscoin does not "depend" on escrow agents, you don't have to use escrow although it is recommended (esp if you dont know the seller). I don't think you understand decentralization (hint it's about choice)... then by definition multisig transactions are not decentralized according to you and by definition bitcoin is not decentralized and by definition none of these coins are aswell and CLTV is centralized. The 2 of 3 escrow the is quickest way to achieve network affect... the world does not understand DDE enough to "get it" unless you have a multi-million dollar budget for marketing which you don't. It a simple design either way. The pegging is not as involved as David's design because it is not intended to be, recently I have made it so that it is also decentralized now as anyone can stand up their own "alias pegs" and merchants can choose who they wish to use as the pegging (price tracking)... what else is a peg supposed to be used for in a marketplace? I'm a fan of separating concerns (KISS) and too many cogs in the wheels need exponential funds in marketing. You can ofcourse fall back to SYS_RATES which the team manages but you are not forced to. So you're saying that decentralization is about being able to choose who the middle man should be. Or, against your recommendation, choosing not to transact safely. Well, I beg to differ. Really nothing more to say about that. your talking about TRUST and not CENTRALIZATION.. DDE is trustless, syscoin is decentralized... syscoin's escrow is trustful through a 2 of 3 multisig, bitbays is trustless.. both have pro's and con's. Either way its a healthy debate. We don't have the money to market it, you are right. And maybe we never will but somebody had to make DDE based markets. Think of it this way, Napster was a P2P music sharing platform and it was the "first" and eventually failed. BUT Napster paved the way for newer and better platforms. You know, Kazaa came next, then E-Mule, then eventually uTorrent. Haha we grew up with this stuff I really admire and respect what you do at sys! The fact that we have such different business models in my opinion doesn't really qualify us as competitors. And even if we were, this is all open source so I hope you and other projects take ideas as you need them. If we are all about decentralization then eventually crypto can go beyond "X Coin, Y Coin, Z Coin" So all the good tech will get integrated into the projects that care enough to build it out. Your project clearly qualifies as one of them. I've said it before and will say again. As long as the idea of DDE survives, I've done my job. Society needs to evolve like you said... 1st they need to understand what bitcoin even is 2nd they need to actually USE bitcoin instead of gamble on it 3rd they need to start caring about using platforms that are resistant to theft and DDOS 4th they would have to start looking at altcoins 5th they would need to use altcoins 6th they would then use a trusted escrow (syscoin) 7th they would realize the power of two party escrow/DDE/Nash Equilibrium/Ultimatum Game/etc Society has a lot of growing to do. And honestly there is like 50 more steps missing from that ladder. Because in order for them to go to trustless tech, they need to lose trust in escrow/merchants/governments I've pretty much lost trust in REALITY hahaha so it made sense that I would go and make something like this. LOOK at how Mt Gox, Mintpal, BTER, etc etc... EVERY place that was centralized or had an escrow went down ALL of them. And what do people do? They come back for more punishment! Still no decentralized exchange! So it will take some time for people to finally decide that trustless is better until humanity matures enough to stop telling lies. Hopefully the peg will draw enough attention that people will market it for us. And we are easily months away from that. By the way, you are adding a pegging system? Is this a voluntary parking system using checklocktimeverify? Or is it something more exotic? Syscoin does not have or plan pegging. They misuse the term for marketing reasons I believe What does pegging mean to you? Syscoin actually offers price pegging by the direct definition whereas it seems as bitbays is something else (something more complex).. whatever it is you cannot say it IS pegging while syscoins is not. That is naive. I agree with david on his posts. |
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