[ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official

[kahir]

when is launch / listing on exchange

[CoinAwesome]

Jonald,

"10 minute blocks are NOT a problem.  0 Confirmation transactions take seconds and can be instantly checked against double spends by querying the mempool."

I agree (with my limited Knowledge)
Tell me please, if nokoin have a 1 minute block, is that "harder" to run/more prone to "overload" than 10 minute block?
In your opinion, is fast confirmation needed for "tipping" small amounts, and how many confirms would be needed (6 in btc) to secure large TX's?

If there was ever a kind of transaction that
was absolutely fine with 0 confirmations,
its tipping.

Now arguably, Bitcoin is not suitable for
extremely small transactions (like a penny)
because of its fee structure, so there
may be an niche for an altcoin there,
but that's another story.

I haven't worked out the exact math,
but I'm somewhat certain that 6 confirmation
of 10 minutes is going to be roughly
the same as 60 confirmation of 1 minute
as far as network security.  Why is this?
Well, for a re-org to take place, you have
to build a longer chain than the main chain.
So if it takes you an hour to make 6 blocks,
(or 60 1 minute blocks), an hour is still an hour.

Some people would say that 1 confirmation is
better than 0 confirmations and so a faster
block time is more convenient from that perspective,
but with smaller blocks, you have more orphan blocks
and more reorgs.

You should check out CoinAwesome aka. Likecoin - the currency for tipping
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=999678.new;all#new

[jonald_fyookball]

won't be long until there's a final flurry of shill posts followed by Sandrine deciding to lock this thread.
The ship is sinking fast.

[torrgeek]

lol..haha..that made my day! The idea of you noble knights in shining armors giving up all your precious time to "bringing to light issues that are affecting people's money" really cracks me up!

Whom are you trying to fool here? You guys are just bagholders looking to offload their bags onto some other unsuspecting victim and are mortally terrified by the prospect of another coin giving your shitty coins competition. Look at Gekko for example. He's obviously heavily invested in UNO. He probably bought them when they were at $5 a piece and is suffering terrible losses now. If there is anything you lot deserve, it is sympathy. lol.

I never expect to be a bagholder.  I hope at least something comes out of this and it gets released....soon.  Keep your sympathy for yourself.  You are sad lol.  I don't own much so even if it totally flops then I will not even lose a step.  I just want some news and for it to be released.  I fuss yea, I "own" (laughingly) some and am obviously pissed.  I DO appreciate some who come in and bring up a valid point about the coin.  I missed a lot of info when I put some btc into it.  Some of it I did not even know.  It is quite obvious who actually knows more and who is just a butt.  I would much rather get to know the knowledgeable than the other.  I have been around for a long time and my only mistake was not checking this fully.  I looked at it and rushed into the ico that was going.  Pretty dumb yes but extremely rare.
With the deal about me starting a refund thread, it is not really worth it to me.  I was kind of making a joke about it if you look back.  I do appreciate the info and help though.  I would for sure put my name in a thread for a refund if anyone wants to create one.  I have checked out the info posted on here and that's it so I am not really into wasting much more time on it and it would have to be someone knowledgeable enough to fight with facts.
Now, don't make yourself look more of an idiot and immature than you already have done by saying that we are just bagholders trying to unload on some other unsuspecting victim.  I assure you that is the furthest thing from my mind.  I DO want it release and see what happens.

Ok..I'm sad, immature and an idiot. Very sweet of you for saying that

But the bagholders comment of mine is spot on (I made a general observation. I dont know why you are taking it so personally). If you have been on bcttalk for more than a few days you would realize that is what this place is about. The entire forum is brimming with people that have bought in into shitty coins and are continuously rallying against any new coin out of fear of it eating into their marketcap. These people are easily recognizable coz their posts are filled with personal attacks some of which are so creepy and low that it makes it impossible for any decent human being to respond. Sure, their posts might be interspersed by genuine concerns but if they are actually looking for a conversation, they would be asking them in a manner that befits a conversation. That these guys only want to get personal and gang up against neucoin is obvious. They are not looking for anything more.

[LiQio]

^
I suggest you simply ignore TaunSew, that's what most of the forum users do  

As for the "gang up against Neucoin" I have to disagree. First of all the Neucoin marketing team was the one that came to many coin forums to draw attention. They explicitly asked everyone to review the whitepaper, strategic plans, etc. They were seeking the spot light which is totally OK. But ...
Many of us started to look into the WP and the website and the bold claims and guess what, there was a lot of bad homework in it.
The only coin protocol they really investigated was Peercoin and this is simply not enough naturally. Tougher questions were ignored most of the time, presence in the said forums was basically stopped. Reminds us all of scam coins/p&d schemes.

Neucoin has really earned the NoKoin and you should read the thread again if you still believe that most of us are rallying against new coins in general.

[torrgeek]

^
I suggest you simply ignore TaunSew, that's what most of the forum users do  

As for the "gang up against Neucoin" I have to disagree. First of all the Neucoin marketing team was the one that came to many coin forums to draw attention. They explicitly asked everyone to review the whitepaper, strategic plans, etc. They were seeking the spot light which is totally OK. But ...
Many of us started to look into the WP and the website and the bold claims and guess what, there was a lot of bad homework in it.
The only coin protocol they really investigated was Peercoin and this is simply not enough naturally. Tougher questions were ignored most of the time, presence in the said forums was basically stopped. Reminds us all of scam coins/p&d schemes.

Neucoin has really earned the NoKoin and you should read the thread again if you still believe that most of us are rallying against new coins in general.

Like I said in my previous post, there are genuine concerns raised and I do not deny that. But, again, like I said, they get so lost within all the childish nonsense and the personal insults that a decent back and forth is rendered almost impossible.

[LiQio]

^
I suggest you simply ignore TaunSew, that's what most of the forum users do  

As for the "gang up against Neucoin" I have to disagree. First of all the Neucoin marketing team was the one that came to many coin forums to draw attention. They explicitly asked everyone to review the whitepaper, strategic plans, etc. They were seeking the spot light which is totally OK. But ...
Many of us started to look into the WP and the website and the bold claims and guess what, there was a lot of bad homework in it.
The only coin protocol they really investigated was Peercoin and this is simply not enough naturally. Tougher questions were ignored most of the time, presence in the said forums was basically stopped. Reminds us all of scam coins/p&d schemes.

Neucoin has really earned the NoKoin and you should read the thread again if you still believe that most of us are rallying against new coins in general.

Like I said in my previous post, there are genuine concerns raised and I do not deny that. But, again, like I said, they get so lost within all the childish nonsense and the personal insults that a decent back and forth is rendered almost impossible.

They don't get lost, they are just harder to find and most importantly they still could be addressed.
(And IMO a lightly moderated forum is preferable although filtering out trolls takes more individual time.)

[TaunSew]

^
I suggest you simply ignore TaunSew, that's what most of the forum users do  

As for the "gang up against Neucoin" I have to disagree. First of all the Neucoin marketing team was the one that came to many coin forums to draw attention. They explicitly asked everyone to review the whitepaper, strategic plans, etc. They were seeking the spot light which is totally OK. But ...
Many of us started to look into the WP and the website and the bold claims and guess what, there was a lot of bad homework in it.
The only coin protocol they really investigated was Peercoin and this is simply not enough naturally. Tougher questions were ignored most of the time, presence in the said forums was basically stopped. Reminds us all of scam coins/p&d schemes.

Neucoin has really earned the NoKoin and you should read the thread again if you still believe that most of us are rallying against new coins in general.

Like I said in my previous post, there are genuine concerns raised and I do not deny that. But, again, like I said, they get so lost within all the childish nonsense and the personal insults that a decent back and forth is rendered almost impossible.

They don't get lost, they are just harder to find and most importantly they still could be addressed.
(And IMO a lightly moderated forum is preferable although filtering out trolls takes more individual time.)

You are sucking up to nobody here.   Besides hit that big fat ignore button if you want, I'm sure more people have you on their ignore list and most people who read this forum aren't logged into any account.

  Sandrine hasn't been on this thread in weeks, and she's not even one of the developers or anyone critical to NeuCoin.  Even on the Peercoin forum, Daniel Kaufman has simply stopped showing up there too.  Yes he was a poster on there for awhile, and his posts are indexed on Google, but for some reason they all seemed to had been deleted (ban by Peercointalk.org or did he go back and delete everything?  Who knows).   Maybe he lost incentive in addressing fair criticism, especially once the IPO money was collected and sent off to the Seychelles.

I assure you the only childish behavior here from the Spyware Pig Daniel Kaufman.  When he doesn't even have the decency to address fair criticism on Peercointalk, Reddit, Bitcointalk and every cryptocurrency community.  Clearly it's a vaporware scam and a lot of people bit on it hook, line and sinker because Daniel Kaufman promised them $25 to fill out some survey.

[scam confirmed]

shitty coins

Which Altcoins are "shitty" and why?

How is NoKoin better in these regards?

[jonald_fyookball]

What link?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1007155.0

BTW, Sunny King is trying to integrate it:

Integrate what?

Indeed. Integrate what?  What innovation are you speaking about?

Still waiting for Lorrav, or anyone for that matter, to explain what innovations they
think Sunny King is trying to integrate.  Actually, if you can point to any innovations
at all in the whitepaper, please let me know.  I haven't seen a single one.

[darteous]

I can't find it. It came up around the time of the white paper a couple months ago, so I don't even remember which forum it was on. And I'm not a techie so I don't remember the details. But to my understanding someone that was well informed about peercoin who wasn't a big fan of Neucoin and thought neucoin should join another coin community as opposed to starting a new one. The person said that peercoin had already started working on making the alteration that is a concept neucoin founded to make PoS a little bit better.

I think Rizz has done the most in depth reading through the forums, most recently anyway. maybe he knows

I suppose growth wasn't quite the right word. I'm concerned of a pump crew coming through and playing on the neucoin community and jacking the price up to make some good money. With an investor video a pump & dump crew would be so very enticed to manipulate neu's market. Either way I'm sure there will be a bit of a spike.

[jonald_fyookball]

I can't find it. It came up around the time of the white paper a couple months ago, so I don't even remember which forum it was on. And I'm not a techie so I don't remember the details. But to my understanding someone that was well informed about peercoin who wasn't a big fan of Neucoin and thought neucoin should join another coin community as opposed to starting a new one. The person said that peercoin had already started working on making the alteration that is a concept neucoin founded to make PoS a little bit better.
 

I think someone from peercoin may have said neucoin team should help peercoin instead of starting their own coin,
but I haven't seen any innovations that originated out of the neucoin whitepaper. 

Perhaps I'm wrong and someone can point it out for me.

[rizzlarolla]

I can't find it. It came up around the time of the white paper a couple months ago, so I don't even remember which forum it was on. And I'm not a techie so I don't remember the details. But to my understanding someone that was well informed about peercoin who wasn't a big fan of Neucoin and thought neucoin should join another coin community as opposed to starting a new one. The person said that peercoin had already started working on making the alteration that is a concept neucoin founded to make PoS a little bit better.
 

I think someone from peercoin may have said neucoin team should help peercoin instead of starting their own coin,
but I haven't seen any innovations that originated out of the neucoin whitepaper. 

Perhaps I'm wrong and someone can point it out for me.

I THINK the innovation Dart/Torrgeek mean is the "floating" stake modifier,
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/a-reply-to-the-neucoin-white-paper/356

bigredmachine ( a member of the development team for another coin utilizing a variant of Proof of Stake) says,
"First and foremost, the attribute that most troubles me about this paper is that you have either failed to fully grasp BlackCoin's Proof of Stake 2.0 implementation from last summer, or otherwise are trying to take credit away from BlackCoin's developers."

Dart says,
"I'm don't know much at all about NXT/Blackcoin so I don't know when it did the things you're referring to but this coin has been in works for over a year so it is possible that they came up with the idea before or about the same time, but simply didn't publish it."

Kourosh says,
"The reason behind this is that we arrived at the same conclusions than BlackCoin on our own (especially concerning the modification of the stake modifier). It's only after we had decided to have it "floating" that I actually realized this was one of the modifications BlackCoin had made in its previous update."

HOWEVER, the nokoin WP (full version) now allocate this innovation to Blackcoin,
"3.2/5 Stake  modifier: NeuCoin  chose  to  adapt  BlackCoin's stake  modifier, which floats over time,"
 
BTW Dart, you seem to think there will only be 100m nokoin on the market at release, (the presale coins)
do you think there will also be foundation coins available for purchase from day 1, (unlimited amount)
also angel/team coins available for purchase from day 1 (all be it a restricted amount)

Will these extra coins flood the market and overshadow the presale investor coins?

(Jonald, thanks for previous answer)

[jonald_fyookball]

Kourosh says,
"The reason behind this is that we arrived at the same conclusions than BlackCoin on our own (especially concerning the modification of the stake modifier). It's only after we had decided to have it "floating" that I actually realized this was one of the modifications BlackCoin had made in its previous update."
 

So the "floating stake modifier" (which Blackcoin already did at least 6-12 months ago) is their big innovation.  

(I don't think it really counts as an innovation if someone else did it prior.)

And if the Neucoin team never heard about it before as they claim, how big of an innovation is
it really?  Why wasn't there a clamouring celebration in the crypto community when Blackcoin
first published this "innovation"?

I'll tell you why.

Because its really just another method of choosing who gets to forge the next block.
How's is it fundamentally any different from, say, Nxt's generation signature parameter?
Doesn't that also solve any precomputation issues?   Isn't it basically the same thing?

Certainly it doesn't "stop all attack vectors" as the basic stake grinding is still
possible even if precomputations aren't.

EDIT:

The NXT Whitepaper says this:

Since any node can query the effective balance for any active account, it is possible to iterate through all active accounts in order to determine their individual hit value. This means it is possible to predict, with reasonable accuracy, which account will next win the right to forge a block. A shuffling attack could be mounted by moving stake to an account that will generate the next block, which is another reason why a Nxt stake must be stationary for 1440 blocks before it can contribute to forging (via the effective balance value). Interestingly, the new base target value for the next block cannot be reasonably predicted, so the nearly-deterministic process of determining who will forge the next block becomes increasingly stochastic as attempts are made to predict future blocks.

It seems the implementations are different, but the result is the same.  You won't be able to "precompute" anything longer than 1 block.   

[rizzlarolla]

Kourosh says,
"The reason behind this is that we arrived at the same conclusions than BlackCoin on our own (especially concerning the modification of the stake modifier). It's only after we had decided to have it "floating" that I actually realized this was one of the modifications BlackCoin had made in its previous update."
 

So the "floating stake modifier" (which Blackcoin already did at least 6-12 months ago) is their big innovation.  

(I don't think it really counts as an innovation if someone else did it prior.)

And if the Neucoin team never heard about it before as they claim, how big of an innovation is
it really?  Why wasn't there a clamouring celebration in the crypto community when Blackcoin
first published this "innovation"?

I'll tell you why.

Because its really just another method of choosing who gets to forge the next block.
How's is it fundamentally any different from, say, Nxt's generation signature parameter?
Doesn't that also solve any precomputation issues?   Isn't it basically the same thing?

Certainly it doesn't "stop all attack vectors" as the basic stake grinding is still
possible even if precomputations aren't.

Guess we'll have to wait till Torrgeek/Dart comfirm/deny this is the innovation.
on the same lines, why cant Torrgeek/dart remember this innovation?

edit- Torrgeek, Kahir posted to ask "when is launch / listing on exchange"
(I understand 30 pages is a lot so I give you a clue, it's on this page)

[LOrrav]

What link?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1007155.0

BTW, Sunny King is trying to integrate it:

Integrate what?

Indeed. Integrate what?  What innovation are you speaking about?

Still waiting for Lorrav, or anyone for that matter, to explain what innovations they
think Sunny King is trying to integrate.  Actually, if you can point to any innovations
at all in the whitepaper, please let me know.  I haven't seen a single one.

scam_confirm conveniently chopped off part of my message:

What link?

BTW, Sunny King is trying to integrate it:

https://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=4035.msg38825#msg38825

[jonald_fyookball]

Lorrav,

I think the relevant piece of info when I
follow your link is:

No significant changes against the hypothetical attacks were proposed in NeuCoin's white paper.

[scam confirmed]

What link?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1007155.0

BTW, Sunny King is trying to integrate it:

Integrate what?

Indeed. Integrate what?  What innovation are you speaking about?

Still waiting for Lorrav, or anyone for that matter, to explain what innovations they
think Sunny King is trying to integrate.  Actually, if you can point to any innovations
at all in the whitepaper, please let me know.  I haven't seen a single one.

scam_confirm conveniently chopped off part of my message:

What link?

BTW, Sunny King is trying to integrate it:

https://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=4035.msg38825#msg38825

Integrate what?

[jonald_fyookball]

What link?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1007155.0

BTW, Sunny King is trying to integrate it:

Integrate what?

Indeed. Integrate what?  What innovation are you speaking about?

Still waiting for Lorrav, or anyone for that matter, to explain what innovations they
think Sunny King is trying to integrate.  Actually, if you can point to any innovations
at all in the whitepaper, please let me know.  I haven't seen a single one.

scam_confirm conveniently chopped off part of my message:

What link?

BTW, Sunny King is trying to integrate it:

https://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=4035.msg38825#msg38825

Integrate what?

It's unclear.  Until we see a statement from Sunny its all just forum yakking.

[LOrrav]

Actually, I don't own any altcoins.

I became interested in what I perceived to be a scam (Neucoin)
after reading the claims that Neucoin can solve the Proof
of Stake issues.

I've read quite a bit on these kinds of issues and have
discussed them with very smart and knowledgable
people (like Greg Maxwell).

And I believe I know enough to tell you that the
Neucoin whitepaper is a paper tiger.

And yet, you can't produce any coherent attack against it. Why don't you? I'm sure at least Sunny King from Peercoin would be interested in what you have to say.

been there, done that -- see above link.

As far as I know, Peercoin still uses checkpointing to guard against grinding attacks.
If there was something innovative in the neucoin paper, I'm sure Sunny King and
the peercoin community would be talking about it and trying to integrate it.

You gave me a link of about 100 posts. Which, if any, can I pin you down on as saying this is the attack that will prevent Neucoin from working?

You argue like a politician.