ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[Vycid]

... What??? AM IS a bitcoin investment. This is EXTREMELY relevant, even if it is just as applicable to SatoshiDice. I'd think you'd WANT to consider threats to your investment as part of your risk assessment.

so, you'll be posting your latest revelation on all bitcoin investing threads, then?

No, but you're welcome to share it, if you like. My security of interest is AM, since this is the one I follow and the one I have any understanding of. I don't consider myself the "masked market defender", but I do like to discuss these things, since often they lead to a better appreciation of the risks. For example, someone pointed out that creating fake shares would be caught in the accounting for the dividends, which makes that scam fairly impractical.

[101111]

Cointerra is operating on $1.5M startup funding without preorders. Considering AM has a market cap of $160M or so right now, I'd say that qualifies as "extremely low". Show me a company in another industry with the credible potential to displace $160M of market cap in a year on $1.5M startup funding, and I'll retract that statement.

Business plans are cheap.

Not at all. I said "detailed financial documents". I can see from the pricing of their hardware and their share of the hashrate what is happening to their margins. I just don't know how much they have shrunk.

That's right, you don't know.

Would you mind constructing a counterargument besides "that's wrong"? The S&P is indeed shortable and I believe it is closer to fair value than AM is. And enormous divs and few alternatives creates artificial positive demand - surely you can agree with that.

I did, it's there, read again. I disagree that it's 'artificial'. Shareholders are not forced into reinvesting, they receive divs in btc and they have other options, including converting to fiat if they choose.

[Mausini]

So now suddenly Friedcat is an idiot? Of course he wouldn't do it all at once...

oh, right, so now burnside is an idiot and would ignore magical shares in his account?

I'm still not clear on how Burnside would know they're magical. Isn't Friedcat the one who verifies them?

no, that's what I am trying to tell you.  FC handles direct shares.  To convert direct shares to an exchange, basically FC puts shares into burnsides name, then sends a message to burnside saying the shares have been transferred.  Burnside then enters those shares into his site software and attaches them to the correct username.

For your scheme to work, both burnside and FC have to be in on it (or alternative PT operator).

... Uhhhhh... So, FC makes up some direct shares that don't exist, tells burnside they're legit shares belonging to some made-up usernames (which FC controls, of course) ...

...

I must be pretty dumb, because I'm not seeing the difficulty.

yes you are pretty dumb. please stop spamming this thread with your stupid, irrelevant speculations!

[Vycid]

So now suddenly Friedcat is an idiot? Of course he wouldn't do it all at once...

oh, right, so now burnside is an idiot and would ignore magical shares in his account?

I'm still not clear on how Burnside would know they're magical. Isn't Friedcat the one who verifies them?

no, that's what I am trying to tell you.  FC handles direct shares.  To convert direct shares to an exchange, basically FC puts shares into burnsides name, then sends a message to burnside saying the shares have been transferred.  Burnside then enters those shares into his site software and attaches them to the correct username.

For your scheme to work, both burnside and FC have to be in on it (or alternative PT operator).

... Uhhhhh... So, FC makes up some direct shares that don't exist, tells burnside they're legit shares belonging to some made-up usernames (which FC controls, of course) ...

...

I must be pretty dumb, because I'm not seeing the difficulty.

yes you are pretty dumb. please stop spamming this thread with your stupid, irrelevant speculations!

Irrelevant? Gee whiz fellas, you forgot the "bullish sentiments only" sign!

So be it. I obviously have no cohesive argument for my bearish sentiment, and I should get out of the way to make space for all the honest folks who have nothing riding on their bullish sentiment.

All you guys need now is some Viton o-rings for this spaceship.

[btcbot]

So now suddenly Friedcat is an idiot? Of course he wouldn't do it all at once...

oh, right, so now burnside is an idiot and would ignore magical shares in his account?

I'm still not clear on how Burnside would know they're magical. Isn't Friedcat the one who verifies them?

no, that's what I am trying to tell you.  FC handles direct shares.  To convert direct shares to an exchange, basically FC puts shares into burnsides name, then sends a message to burnside saying the shares have been transferred.  Burnside then enters those shares into his site software and attaches them to the correct username.

For your scheme to work, both burnside and FC have to be in on it (or alternative PT operator).

... Uhhhhh... So, FC makes up some direct shares that don't exist, tells burnside they're legit shares belonging to some made-up usernames (which FC controls, of course) ...

...

I must be pretty dumb, because I'm not seeing the difficulty.

yes you are pretty dumb. please stop spamming this thread with your stupid, irrelevant speculations!

Irrelevant? Gee whiz fellas, you forgot the "bullish sentiments only" sign!

So be it. I obviously have no cohesive argument for my bearish sentiment, and I should get out of the way to make space for all the honest folks who have nothing riding on their bullish sentiment.

All you guys need now is some Viton o-rings for this spaceship.

You've made some good points, but the relentlessness of your arguing belies a need to rationalize your decision to sell AM.  Please moderate your tone... or even better... go away for a while until you can rid yourself of this compulsive need to repeat yourself. 

[Mausini]

So now suddenly Friedcat is an idiot? Of course he wouldn't do it all at once...

oh, right, so now burnside is an idiot and would ignore magical shares in his account?

I'm still not clear on how Burnside would know they're magical. Isn't Friedcat the one who verifies them?

no, that's what I am trying to tell you.  FC handles direct shares.  To convert direct shares to an exchange, basically FC puts shares into burnsides name, then sends a message to burnside saying the shares have been transferred.  Burnside then enters those shares into his site software and attaches them to the correct username.

For your scheme to work, both burnside and FC have to be in on it (or alternative PT operator).

... Uhhhhh... So, FC makes up some direct shares that don't exist, tells burnside they're legit shares belonging to some made-up usernames (which FC controls, of course) ...

...

I must be pretty dumb, because I'm not seeing the difficulty.

yes you are pretty dumb. please stop spamming this thread with your stupid, irrelevant speculations!

Irrelevant? Gee whiz fellas, you forgot the "bullish sentiments only" sign!

So be it. I obviously have no cohesive argument for my bearish sentiment, and I should get out of the way to make space for all the honest folks who have nothing riding on their bullish sentiment.

All you guys need now is some Viton o-rings for this spaceship.

now I see where you are coming from! what if friedcat builds a spaceship?

[ex-trader]

You've made some good points, but the relentlessness of your arguing belies a need to rationalize your decision to sell AM. 

It's important to have two sets of opinions, but there are three key questions for the bulls of AM:

1. Where are long-promised financial statements? They should take about 1 day for a competent person to complete, yet months have passed.

2. Why is AM only holding circa 10% of hash-rate?

3. What are the transaction fees earned that so many people are holding as being the holy grail for valuations?

[btcbot]

You've made some good points, but the relentlessness of your arguing belies a need to rationalize your decision to sell AM.  

It's important to have two sets of opinions, but there are three key questions for the bulls of AM:

1. Where are long-promised financial statements? They should take about 1 day for a competent person to complete, yet months have passed.

2. Why is AM only holding circa 10% of hash-rate?

3. What are the transaction fees earned that so many people are holding as being the holy grail for valuations?

Have these been added to TAT's list already?  

About #2, I'm not sure we need to hear the moment by moment excuses for the ongoing problems,  setup and deployment issues, etc. of mining operations. 

[Fabrizio89]

You've made some good points, but the relentlessness of your arguing belies a need to rationalize your decision to sell AM. 

It's important to have two sets of opinions, but there are three key questions for the bulls of AM:

1. Where are long-promised financial statements? They should take about 1 day for a competent person to complete, yet months have passed.

2. Why is AM only holding circa 10% of hash-rate?

3. What are the transaction fees earned that so many people are holding as being the holy grail for valuations?

1. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.msg2788821#msg2788821
2. This was the objective since the beginning.
3. Why are you holding bitcoins and investing in a mining venture if you don't understand the basics of the system?

[bobboooiie]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=276891.0

Well this will probably freeze or even hit share price pretty hard, but then again blade sales dividend craze might eat that wall pretty quickly if he provides good discount for big buyers

[Lauda]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=276891.0

Well this will probably freeze or even hit share price pretty hard, but then again blade sales dividend craze might eat that wall pretty quickly if he provides good discount for big buyers

Wow so many shares. You're right about that.

[aahzmundus]

Interesting... although without a set price it's not really a wall.  Wise to not set one so he can move with the market.

[Lauda]

Yeah, a lot of shares, but since he didn't set a price on them, the market should be fine or shouldn't take a lot of damage. (price going down)

[101111]

Reality check: law of supply and demand - price will fall.

[Birdy]

Price is probably gonna tank a bit. It could reverse with the next dividends.

[hammurabi]

At first I was thinking that Vycid was waiting for price to go down to pick up some shares. Waiting, waiting, waiting.. is boring so it looked like pushing down or something.

But now I realize he is most bullish of your all !!
He ignites all of you. Intentionally bring incorrect numbers (like 20% instead of 10%) or unlikely scenarios with shares just to hear you cry out loud that he is so wrong

And If bear is loudly wrong then... ? :DD

[velacreations]

price may slump a bit, but don't expect a big tank because of that auction.  Like we've seen before, 100 share minimums exclude the majority of investors, and without a price, it's a moving target.

So, if you are going to buy 100 shares of AM, then you can probably get them cheaper from him than on the open market, but if you are buying 99, you gotta stick to the markets.

[Birdy]

price may slump a bit, but don't expect a big tank because of that auction.  Like we've seen before, 100 share minimums exclude the majority of investors, and without a price, it's a moving target.

So, if you are going to buy 100 shares of AM, then you can probably get them cheaper from him than on the open market, but if you are buying 99, you gotta stick to the markets.

Yes, but some of those people who get 100 shares cheaper may decide to throw them on btct.co.
Difficult to tell without knowing the actual sale price though.

[velacreations]

Yes, but some of those people who get 100 shares cheaper may decide to throw them on btct.co.
Difficult to tell without knowing the actual sale price though.

yeah, that may happen, but it will take several days (at best) to transfer any shares to the exchange.  So, we'll likely not see major dumps like that until after the dividend boost.

[Birdy]

Yes, but some of those people who get 100 shares cheaper may decide to throw them on btct.co.
Difficult to tell without knowing the actual sale price though.

yeah, that may happen, but it will take several days (at best) to transfer any shares to the exchange.  So, we'll likely not see major dumps like that until after the dividend boost.

Unless those people already have shares on btct.co, then they can sell immediately.
I did this kind of abirtrage one time, works fine.