ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[stripykitteh]

I think his main critique is mainly pointed towards the recent decrease in share price. I don't think the decrease in share price is a failure of the pricing mechanism. It's rather the outcome of a liquidity crunch (more investment opportunities than capital, causing chronic undervaluation), combined with the deployment cycle of ASICMINER miner and their dividend policy.

I expect the share price to stabilize above 2 BTC/share. If it does not, it provides an incentive for previous owners to move back into the market.

I know you are an early investor and I presume a board member, so you have access to lots of information that most people don't have. But that is part of the problem with valuing AM as a run-of-the-mill investor. The market occasionally get short updates from Friedcat that give a general idea of where the company is going, without too many specifics.

Last week was a case in point. The dividend was low, so everyone dumped their shares in a panic. Then we were told some BTC was held back for gen 2 chips. What we *don't* know is:

- how long has Friedcat been holding back dividends
- how much has he held back
- how much more does he need to pay for the next gen
- how much stock is still on hand

etc etc

When the market operates in a near-vacuum of information, the only things we can go on are:

- the dividend
- the estimates of hashrate
- estimates of hardware sales
- any news about new competitors

which is why the share price bobs around like a cork in the ocean, as I'm sure it will continue to do until something changes. I think that's now a bigger factor than the lack of capital compared to investment opportunities.

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[houseofchill]

What really has shown itself many times is the effect of Bitcoin exchange price to the Bitcoin stock markets. The link is because some people look at Bitcoin as an investment and they park their coins in stocks to even grow them. Then when Bitcoin price shoots they pull some coins to fiat hence the decline in share prices.

But the percentage of the drop in proportions is simply higher than the liquidity pulled. Is it the FUD effect?

I hope this FUD effect would help clean the market of weak knees so it can grow stronger and more stable. In mean while lets enjoy cheap shares of ASICMINER.

Regarding the competition, We now see potential competitor hashrate wise but really what about expanding? None got clear views and progress but ASICMINER.

Ah I didn't think other ppl saw bitcoin stocks that way to invest fiat, and so they simply want to cash in when bitcoin goes higher..  I'd rather see my bitcoin stocks as bitcoins in the end.

No other minining company like BFL or Avalon has any success like AM, but the wild west market can be crazy. I can see AM as a financial services company like a new kind of bank. The new USBs can be adapted to hardware wallets that can go on keychains. Guess it's still early to think like an investor instead of like a speculator. I'll enjoy cheap shares then in the meanwhile.

[lophie]

Ah I didn't think other ppl saw bitcoin stocks that way to invest fiat, and so they simply want to cash in when bitcoin goes higher..  I'd rather see my bitcoin stocks as bitcoins in the end.

Yes alot are like that and for "bigger" investors they have the luxury and "heart" to stick to long term investments in Bitcoin stock markets but personally I know a few who only entered Bitcoin recently and with few coins and they rode labcoin, btcgarden, fenix and other waves to increase their stake in Bitcoin.

[Panterino]

Seems like we're ready for a bounce at current prices with the hashrate back on target and the price near long term resistance.

[Jutarul]

- how long has Friedcat been holding back dividends
- how much has he held back

Would it help if friedcat releases a cashflow statement everytime a dividend payment occurs?

e.g. something like:

x BTC dividend payment  = x BTC revenue -  x BTC withheld

then the market can build their own balance sheet during the release of financial statements...

[twentyseventy]

Seems like we're ready for a bounce at current prices with the hashrate back on target and the price near long term resistance.

Hoping that the sell off of LC will help bring the price back a bit as well

[dhenson]

Seems like we're ready for a bounce at current prices with the hashrate back on target and the price near long term resistance.

I'm guessing others are waiting on the cryptx IPO.  At least that's what's stopping me from taking advantage of the current price.

[freedomno1]

http://trilema.com/2013/the-analysis-of-a-failure-asicminer/

MPex is completely irrelevant to everyone except the poor souls who bought into it.

Facepalm.jpg
Right and SatoshiDice did a better job as a gambling exchange that spammed the blockchain with a suspicious buyback mumble.
"The workings of contracts strengthened by another good example, such as Satoshi Dice was through its lifetime."

http://trilema.com/2013/the-analysis-of-a-failure-asicminer/

Mircea Popescu runs MPEX which is an exchange that ASICMiner refused to be listed on. He's been attacking AM ever since so anything he says should be taken with scepticism.

+1

MPEX IS a sinking boat and yes I know there is a 25% chance Mircea will write an article on that later

[stripykitteh]

- how long has Friedcat been holding back dividends
- how much has he held back

Would it help if friedcat releases a cashflow statement everytime a dividend payment occurs?

e.g. something like:

x BTC dividend payment  = x BTC revenue -  x BTC withheld

then the market can build their own balance sheet during the release of financial statements...

Sure, I think it would help, and reduce the volatility, which I don't think helps anyone really.

[Rival]

If you believe the risk premium caused by what you consider to be a lack of transparency by FC is unacceptable then perhaps AM is not for you. If FC were more transparent then it would make valuation much easier, stabilize the price, and make profits for both speculators and accumulators much lower. Personally I like it the way things are now. It makes accumulation much cheaper and easier, and speculators can eat the stupid money like candy.

For some reason AM shares are more closely tied to fiat than btc. I don't know for certain why, but knowing this can make you wealthy.

[chriswilmer]

If you believe the risk premium caused by what you consider to be a lack of transparency by FC is unacceptable then perhaps AM is not for you. If FC were more transparent then it would make valuation much easier, stabilize the price, and make profits for both speculators and accumulators much lower. Personally I like it the way things are now. It makes accumulation much cheaper and easier, and speculators can eat the stupid money like candy.

I casually assumed that the lack of transparency had mostly to do with maintaining a competitive advantage over other miners. *shrugs* I don't know really know. Can't wait for that 200 TH/s deployment though...

[ThickAsThieves]

I think his main critique is mainly pointed towards the recent decrease in share price. I don't think the decrease in share price is a failure of the pricing mechanism. It's rather the outcome of a liquidity crunch (more investment opportunities than capital, causing chronic undervaluation), combined with the deployment cycle of ASICMINER miner and their dividend policy.

I expect the share price to stabilize above 2 BTC/share. If it does not, it provides an incentive for previous owners to move back into the market.

I know you are an early investor and I presume a board member, so you have access to lots of information that most people don't have. But that is part of the problem with valuing AM as a run-of-the-mill investor. The market occasionally get short updates from Friedcat that give a general idea of where the company is going, without too many specifics.

Last week was a case in point. The dividend was low, so everyone dumped their shares in a panic. Then we were told some BTC was held back for gen 2 chips. What we *don't* know is:

- how long has Friedcat been holding back dividends
- how much has he held back
- how much more does he need to pay for the next gen
- how much stock is still on hand

etc etc

When the market operates in a near-vacuum of information, the only things we can go on are:

- the dividend
- the estimates of hashrate
- estimates of hardware sales
- any news about new competitors

which is why the share price bobs around like a cork in the ocean, as I'm sure it will continue to do until something changes. I think that's now a bigger factor than the lack of capital compared to investment opportunities.

I know this is hard to believe, and then hard to concede, but I can honestly say that I have yet to learn any special info from being a board member and then traded on that. I'm the newest one, so maybe there were times in the past where that wasn't true for others, but I recall hearing similar sentiments from a board member back then too.

If anything, being in the thick of it simply makes Friedcat's publicly provided info and timelines more believable. When you see a delay, that's when we see it too. We don't have our fingers on Friedcat's pulse like some might like to imagine.

The fact is, we all know the share price has more to do with speculation, fickle sentiment and panic more than anything.

Furthermore, the amount of info coming out of AM to the public is not any worse than your average corporation. To be candid, the forum and its 24-hour F5 mashers distort reality with a hunger for info (read: trading signals). Some of you pretend like info is something that is vastly needed and lacking for some kind of transparency or relief, but mostly they just want to know if they should buy/sell in their short-term trading efforts.

All the info you need to make trade decisions is already out there. Anything that is uncertain after that, is simply that.

[Vycid]

I think his main critique is mainly pointed towards the recent decrease in share price. I don't think the decrease in share price is a failure of the pricing mechanism. It's rather the outcome of a liquidity crunch (more investment opportunities than capital, causing chronic undervaluation), combined with the deployment cycle of ASICMINER miner and their dividend policy.

I expect the share price to stabilize above 2 BTC/share. If it does not, it provides an incentive for previous owners to move back into the market.

I know you are an early investor and I presume a board member, so you have access to lots of information that most people don't have. But that is part of the problem with valuing AM as a run-of-the-mill investor. The market occasionally get short updates from Friedcat that give a general idea of where the company is going, without too many specifics.

Last week was a case in point. The dividend was low, so everyone dumped their shares in a panic. Then we were told some BTC was held back for gen 2 chips. What we *don't* know is:

- how long has Friedcat been holding back dividends
- how much has he held back
- how much more does he need to pay for the next gen
- how much stock is still on hand

etc etc

When the market operates in a near-vacuum of information, the only things we can go on are:

- the dividend
- the estimates of hashrate
- estimates of hardware sales
- any news about new competitors

which is why the share price bobs around like a cork in the ocean, as I'm sure it will continue to do until something changes. I think that's now a bigger factor than the lack of capital compared to investment opportunities.

I know this is hard to believe, and then hard to concede, but I can honestly say that I have yet to learn any special info from being a board member and then traded on that. I'm the newest one, so maybe there were times in the past where that wasn't true for others, but I recall hearing similar sentiments from a board member back then too.

If anything, being in the thick of it simply makes Friedcat's publicly provided info and timelines more believable. When you see a delay, that's when we see it too. We don't have our fingers on Friedcat's pulse like some might like to imagine.

The fact is, we all know the share price has more to do with speculation, fickle sentiment and panic more than anything.

Furthermore, the amount of info coming out of AM to the public is not any worse than your average corporation. To be candid, the forum and its 24-hour F5 mashers distort reality with a hunger for info (read: trading signals). Some of you pretend like info is something that is vastly needed and lacking for some kind of transparency or relief, but mostly they just want to know if they should buy/sell in their short-term trading efforts.

All the info you need to make trade decisions is already out there. Anything that is uncertain after that, is simply that.

TAT, were you eb3full's buyer?

[dhenson]

I think his main critique is mainly pointed towards the recent decrease in share price. I don't think the decrease in share price is a failure of the pricing mechanism. It's rather the outcome of a liquidity crunch (more investment opportunities than capital, causing chronic undervaluation), combined with the deployment cycle of ASICMINER miner and their dividend policy.

I expect the share price to stabilize above 2 BTC/share. If it does not, it provides an incentive for previous owners to move back into the market.

I know you are an early investor and I presume a board member, so you have access to lots of information that most people don't have. But that is part of the problem with valuing AM as a run-of-the-mill investor. The market occasionally get short updates from Friedcat that give a general idea of where the company is going, without too many specifics.

Last week was a case in point. The dividend was low, so everyone dumped their shares in a panic. Then we were told some BTC was held back for gen 2 chips. What we *don't* know is:

- how long has Friedcat been holding back dividends
- how much has he held back
- how much more does he need to pay for the next gen
- how much stock is still on hand

etc etc

When the market operates in a near-vacuum of information, the only things we can go on are:

- the dividend
- the estimates of hashrate
- estimates of hardware sales
- any news about new competitors

which is why the share price bobs around like a cork in the ocean, as I'm sure it will continue to do until something changes. I think that's now a bigger factor than the lack of capital compared to investment opportunities.

I know this is hard to believe, and then hard to concede, but I can honestly say that I have yet to learn any special info from being a board member and then traded on that. I'm the newest one, so maybe there were times in the past where that wasn't true for others, but I recall hearing similar sentiments from a board member back then too.

If anything, being in the thick of it simply makes Friedcat's publicly provided info and timelines more believable. When you see a delay, that's when we see it too. We don't have our fingers on Friedcat's pulse like some might like to imagine.

The fact is, we all know the share price has more to do with speculation, fickle sentiment and panic more than anything.

Furthermore, the amount of info coming out of AM to the public is not any worse than your average corporation. To be candid, the forum and its 24-hour F5 mashers distort reality with a hunger for info (read: trading signals). Some of you pretend like info is something that is vastly needed and lacking for some kind of transparency or relief, but mostly they just want to know if they should buy/sell in their short-term trading efforts.

All the info you need to make trade decisions is already out there. Anything that is uncertain after that, is simply that.

TAT, were you eb3full's buyer?

I know for certain that he didn't buy 200 of them.

[chriswilmer]

I think his main critique is mainly pointed towards the recent decrease in share price. I don't think the decrease in share price is a failure of the pricing mechanism. It's rather the outcome of a liquidity crunch (more investment opportunities than capital, causing chronic undervaluation), combined with the deployment cycle of ASICMINER miner and their dividend policy.

I expect the share price to stabilize above 2 BTC/share. If it does not, it provides an incentive for previous owners to move back into the market.

I know you are an early investor and I presume a board member, so you have access to lots of information that most people don't have. But that is part of the problem with valuing AM as a run-of-the-mill investor. The market occasionally get short updates from Friedcat that give a general idea of where the company is going, without too many specifics.

Last week was a case in point. The dividend was low, so everyone dumped their shares in a panic. Then we were told some BTC was held back for gen 2 chips. What we *don't* know is:

- how long has Friedcat been holding back dividends
- how much has he held back
- how much more does he need to pay for the next gen
- how much stock is still on hand

etc etc

When the market operates in a near-vacuum of information, the only things we can go on are:

- the dividend
- the estimates of hashrate
- estimates of hardware sales
- any news about new competitors

which is why the share price bobs around like a cork in the ocean, as I'm sure it will continue to do until something changes. I think that's now a bigger factor than the lack of capital compared to investment opportunities.

I know this is hard to believe, and then hard to concede, but I can honestly say that I have yet to learn any special info from being a board member and then traded on that. I'm the newest one, so maybe there were times in the past where that wasn't true for others, but I recall hearing similar sentiments from a board member back then too.

If anything, being in the thick of it simply makes Friedcat's publicly provided info and timelines more believable. When you see a delay, that's when we see it too. We don't have our fingers on Friedcat's pulse like some might like to imagine.

The fact is, we all know the share price has more to do with speculation, fickle sentiment and panic more than anything.

Furthermore, the amount of info coming out of AM to the public is not any worse than your average corporation. To be candid, the forum and its 24-hour F5 mashers distort reality with a hunger for info (read: trading signals). Some of you pretend like info is something that is vastly needed and lacking for some kind of transparency or relief, but mostly they just want to know if they should buy/sell in their short-term trading efforts.

All the info you need to make trade decisions is already out there. Anything that is uncertain after that, is simply that.

Hmm, I believe you, but it is curious since presumably the point of being a board member is to participate in board meetings, where there are usually frank discussions of delays/issues and upcoming business strategies. I wouldn't think that any of that information would be appropriate to disclose to ordinary shareholders, but I would have assumed that board members would know more about what's going on.

[stripykitteh]

Furthermore, the amount of info coming out of AM to the public is not any worse than your average corporation. To be candid, the forum and its 24-hour F5 mashers distort reality with a hunger for info (read: trading signals). Some of you pretend like info is something that is vastly needed and lacking for some kind of transparency or relief, but mostly they just want to know if they should buy/sell in their short-term trading efforts.

All the info you need to make trade decisions is already out there. Anything that is uncertain after that, is simply that.

I disagree. While I have no reason to believe friedcat is being misleading, the level of disclosure of AM compared to a publicly-traded company in a bricks and mortar exchange is an order of magnitude less.

[shawshankinmate37927]

Furthermore, the amount of info coming out of AM to the public is not any worse than your average corporation. To be candid, the forum and its 24-hour F5 mashers distort reality with a hunger for info (read: trading signals). Some of you pretend like info is something that is vastly needed and lacking for some kind of transparency or relief, but mostly they just want to know if they should buy/sell in their short-term trading efforts.

All the info you need to make trade decisions is already out there. Anything that is uncertain after that, is simply that.

Hopefully, friedcat doesn't let corporations on Wall Street set the bar when it comes to keeping shareholders informed.  I'd like to think that he's willing to hold AM to a higher standard.  AM, and bitcoin miners in general, are at a critical stage now.  With the total network hashrate rising as fast as it is and ROI on mining hardware dropping as fast as it is, a solid strategy is going to be required to remain competitive and maintain profitability.  How friedcat responds to this challenge is critical to long-term investors looking for dividend income, not just the short-term traders.

[hammurabi]

I have collected some management pieces from The Business Cat song:
and linked them all together. Check it out

http://youtu.be/qNhycX0XCJ0

Update
We have collected several shareholders' questions for answering.

Business Cat just called to make sure
That we're singing from the same hymn
sheet

There hasn't been a huge hardware dividend payoff: is it because of reduced margins, or delays?
Because we are collecting funds to get ready for the exponentially increased devices to be assembled in September and October.

That we're optimizing, synergizing
Our portfolio
Diversifying our assets
By investing in other kind of business pets

Why has the hashrate dropped the past weeks?
It dropped in different few days. Some of them are internal hardware/network glitches, some of them are luck based. We haven't identified any form of DDOS attacks recently though.

And he wants us to know before he's got to go
To the conference being held in Tokyo
That he'll take up the slack
And that he's got our back
When it comes to upper-management

How are things going regarding your business plan? Did you account for the sudden network hashrate increase? How is the international expansion of ASICminer coming along?
The business plan is unchanged. The network hashrate increase was still under our projection. The total hash target originally set for the end of this year would probably achieved earlier.
The ASICMiner expansion via franchising is still much within China border. The internationally deployed portion will dominate when the gain of operation cost outweigh the delay and cost of international shipping/assembling abroad.

Business Cat flies around the world
He's a first class guy
I'm his first class girl
You're also his secretary
Meow, meow, meow

But he's married to his job
'Cause he's Business Cat
Strictly business
On business
Doing all the business in his litter tray

Besides mining, hardware sales, and franchising, are there any other potential sources of revenue?
There are many possible ones considered, but none can support serious sound business model based on a 1-2billion dollar total market value of Bitcoin: selling patents, offering solution for mining farm construction, assembly service, etc.

Business Cat is back from the conference
He is filled with new found confidence
He's exploring the paradigm, blue-sky
thinking, pushing the envelope, touching
BASE

For more transparency, is it possible to share a wallet address for depositing income from ASICMINER hardware sales?
We use a different deposit address for each payment transaction. But a centralized nexus address is good. Then people could see how the funds are separated as dividends and expenses.

Business Cat wants to get some face time
See what you're bringing
To the table

Could we have an official live hashrate meter from ASICMINER?
We have an internal one, mainly for troubleshooting when some of the racks going down. The hashrate meter based on the blocks mined reflects more of the real speed (plus luck of course). We will buy more bandwidth before making it accessible by the whole internet. It also requires more commitment in maintenance.

Meow.
Meow, meow, meow.



That should shed some soundful light onto how things are being run by cats

[ning]

Anybody noticed the increased hashing power of ours? That put a smile on my face:)

[FloatesMcgoates]

Could the 2nd generation be officially here?

Also it appears as though ASICminer fixed their node problems, they discovered a block with 600+ transactions