From my understanding, each miner was paid for separately. It wasn't like they were paid all at once on August 20th, so you're completely off with assuming that much. Ragin logged into his PayPal in front of me and I did actually see, with my own eyes, completed payments in June to "Kennemar & Cole AB" (aka "KncMiner"). Now if you refer back to the screenshot, you will see that now all were paid by BitPay, the first five were done via PayPal. The first two Saturns were ordered on June 13th, the third and fourth on June 14th and the fifth Saturn on June 17th. So right now, I can only speak for the machines paid for by PayPal because I witnessed the transaction confirmation first hand. I can't say the same for the ones paid by BitPay. So I apologize to the group that I wasn't able to get more information about the BitPay situation, but I will. The plan right now is to refund each machine sequentially, starting with Saturn #1 and working up from there. But I'm still actively trying to work with JohnK to get more information about how that all the BitPay paymnts went down. Regardless, KncMiner will be able to shed more light about that tomorrow. Daniel, you are more than welcome to join us. So once we all figure that out, we can figure out how to unravel it and get the payments back to people. Physalis you obviously have never dealt with PayPal's risk dept or their security personnel. Once you're account is frozen, it can take up to 180 days for them to unfreeze it! I can assure you that it's happened before and it can happen again. Here's it is in their TOS: http://bit.ly/14DEwcdThanks for the information. About paypal: Believe me, I know how much of a pain in the ass they can be, in many aspects. But my point was that it shouldn't be necessary to get that account free/unlocked to do the refund. There should be no money on that paypal account that concerns us right now anyway, all the money should be at KnC already. So if they return the money, they can just return it to a different account (i.e. your's). At the very least for the miners that were payed via bitpay, because they had absolutely nothing to do with Paypal. So even with the locked PP account, you can get the refund from KnC and start buying BTC back, before BTC price starts going up again. Then you can already pay back all the people that have payed in BTC. Yeah, this is what I don't get. According to prodigits, all the money is at KNC... |
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I cosign every cynical and accusatory post here. This thing smells to high heaven.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.orgiQIQBAEBAgAGBQJSLI7DAAoJEJnRjzaKPghMqjkPmQGmR+4wM3dySj/Krg3CJSpW bZPm6/iU1g4qFj24pJ4XmZsYqBqCAva1z3jA0PaqH+FJlQDrM383+co6hcBFG9qz IIrpXzCBLks98LkdT6HPzMWXv7CJcqdonWkux0OcwJX1s7aiSREaKDWTJf3vxejH zqq4OPybmQBTN+bKopV1xW8bO1OD1UOu8b/wGb5f/h3VLYMhrTUPe4gsx1go2Bu3 J8HH1GQwK3r7tnvsK5yATJOmm7bl24RzDeRgi2L7qImqhlkiWqxhm1XmXrUtO3xp qp6oNNpZVMLDroaXaBdB5wpZv1FyV4hMwkGU8ecdv+H4Q/HowZWPXeDOn2W+febp vB3zFMhNDFqg0AMt0J1QYetxOWQxjWqsIikzFr72NQWFHEVreYqTtXJZiESMpv6w 0GIqgk/9t6p0qc+EMjJudmvkz6PK6DfjQvO+FNiqLMwemaJA9HVX1IyZUQx9WO6l NDJQhlXSfJHiS28PtO12Rlc1LujyEwl6l+dos6iCypxciWdCCUed15pRoLA25tm0 QctsYZTOqMgKMihRqznGVSrqo9CH8D59J/HNErhH1g57qHv1TTJTsbJs2tsRJJl8 lVk9artXsvfitOTN/MI127mvotj19Y7dxoblg2rLBKYvd2sjPRU9+pksOqKvLQ0i sLKn =9Vi5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Daniel would you care to meet with me tomorrow? I know you're on the East Coast as well. Let's settle all this in person, you could then relay all the progress to rest of the people in this group. This will provided the transparency needed so there won't be any more accusations by the severely misguided people on here. I'm just fuckin sick of this shit. Please make time in your schedule for me tomorrow. Thanks daniel Hehe, I was just joking about the signature (because he said "cosign"). Anyways, I have to think about that. I try not to meet with people from online (no offense). I'll let you know. |
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I cosign every cynical and accusatory post here. This thing smells to high heaven.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.orgiQIQBAEBAgAGBQJSLI7DAAoJEJnRjzaKPghMqjkPmQGmR+4wM3dySj/Krg3CJSpW bZPm6/iU1g4qFj24pJ4XmZsYqBqCAva1z3jA0PaqH+FJlQDrM383+co6hcBFG9qz IIrpXzCBLks98LkdT6HPzMWXv7CJcqdonWkux0OcwJX1s7aiSREaKDWTJf3vxejH zqq4OPybmQBTN+bKopV1xW8bO1OD1UOu8b/wGb5f/h3VLYMhrTUPe4gsx1go2Bu3 J8HH1GQwK3r7tnvsK5yATJOmm7bl24RzDeRgi2L7qImqhlkiWqxhm1XmXrUtO3xp qp6oNNpZVMLDroaXaBdB5wpZv1FyV4hMwkGU8ecdv+H4Q/HowZWPXeDOn2W+febp vB3zFMhNDFqg0AMt0J1QYetxOWQxjWqsIikzFr72NQWFHEVreYqTtXJZiESMpv6w 0GIqgk/9t6p0qc+EMjJudmvkz6PK6DfjQvO+FNiqLMwemaJA9HVX1IyZUQx9WO6l NDJQhlXSfJHiS28PtO12Rlc1LujyEwl6l+dos6iCypxciWdCCUed15pRoLA25tm0 QctsYZTOqMgKMihRqznGVSrqo9CH8D59J/HNErhH1g57qHv1TTJTsbJs2tsRJJl8 lVk9artXsvfitOTN/MI127mvotj19Y7dxoblg2rLBKYvd2sjPRU9+pksOqKvLQ0i sLKn =9Vi5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
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News?
Good news everybody. After seriously heated arguments, tense moments and some strong-arming from my end, Ragin has finally agreed to start the refunds for everybody. On Monday he'll be contacting KnCminer with my assistance, to see what is involved in getting a refund process started. I'll be overseeing the entire process from start to finish to ensure it gets completed and Ragin follows through with his word. I have spoken to JohnK and he gave his full approval. Now with that being said, I must say this wont be an easy or a quick process, by any stretch of the imagination, for several reason which I will try to lay out here. First and foremost, we all need to accept the fact that there will be serious risk involved with virtually every step in the refund process. The most pressing issue at the moment is Ragin's PayPal account, which has been heavily crippled due to several disputes and serious limitations imposed by PayPal's risk department. Now if KnCminer agrees to a refund, the funds would be returned to an account that may stay frozen for some time, until we can properly unwind this mess and get his account in good standing. Then I have to make sure those funds get converted back to BTC and returned to their rightful owners. I can't guarantee anything but I can assure you all that I'm trying as hard as I can, devoting a shitload of my time to this because I know how important it is for everybody involved, including myself. I own shares in Saturn #6. So right now I'm fighting for us all and I'm in your corner people...here to represent each and every one of you to see that you're all made whole. More updates to follow on Monday night. Meh. More talk, no proof. The questions before my post _NEED_ to be answered. When did he pay for the units? What did he do with the 20% profit he made because he paid for them Aug. 20? If there's going to be a refund, it NEEDS to go into an escrow. I don't want to trust anyone except for a neutral 3rd party to hold onto the funds. I'd be glad to pay John 1% to hold them... |
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I will not pay an outrageous price. I am not expecting to ROI on this, but want it as a novelty. Name your price  . |
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I will be pressing hard for a full refund for everybody.
I hope we get a full refund, prodigits seems to be trying for us, although I really wouldn't be surprised if we can't get a full BTC refund, OP's track record and all that... Just remember, violence has resolved more problems in the world than any other method. Wait, what? I hope that was a joke. Please tell me that was a joke and that you don't actually think that. |
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Hey guys, so here's the latest update so far... Contacting and getting a hold of Ragin has been touch and go, at best. I literally call him 45-50 times and text him 65-70 times a day, most of the times with no response from his end. When I finally do get a hold of him, it's sporadic at best. Basically it's only once every few days. He's not very stable at the moment. A few of you have pledged 10% of your refunds to me and I appreciate that greatly. That has really inspired me to work overtime for you guys. I'm spending several hours a day working on this, between trying to contact Ragin, updating everybody's refund info and following this thread and writing back to people. The silver lining in all this is that I'm coming very close to a full resolution in this entire debacle. Thank you to all those that are sending me PMs, all your info has been entered in the Official Refund List. I'm posting it here so that it can be peer reviewed, please let me know if I missed any details: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ag33NSOc15F-dGhlVGltbmZWSDBMTjR1SXRBS2dqb1E&usp=sharingI'm driving down from Boston on Friday to meet Thomas at his house, we're gonna have a long chat. That'll hopefully bring this fiasco to an end. I will be pressing hard for a full refund for everybody. Will post the results of our discussion here. I am fighting for us all. No keyboard warrior here. This sounds like a joke or a stall attempt. Let's get the facts clear: - when were the orders paid? - did the OP sold the coins on August, 20th and cashed in a 20% profit? Those are very crucial points and I agree with you Rampion, everything right now hinges on those facts. At this point I have no idea what those answers are but I will know on Friday, that's why I'm driving down. Friday as in tomorrow or next friday? Or some Friday in 2016? |
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I am going to make a proposal to hopefully get this resolved and save these fools from a beating.
We should appoint one person, my vote being Daniel if he is willing because he is close geographically and has already expressed interest.
That person is given the required personal information (RAGinZ) by John K to give details to an attorney.
Each person who has a BTC investment sends more coin(s) to an escrow account. The amount should not need to be much if we all join in on this.
We approach an attorney and find out what we are talking about money wise to sue.
When the papers are drawn up and we have proof that the attorney is going to pursue the case we release the BTC to pay him or her.
We sue for the original amount plus the additional coins we payed the attorney.
I cant see these being more than a couple thousand bucks to file. Am I correct in saying that? Any opinions on this?
You are not correct in saying that. People have paid $25k+ for a simple memo from an attorney... While the lawsuit itself only costs a couple thousands, an attorney costs MUCH MORE. |
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I've got another email from Stephen.
"Yep no problem. Please let people on the forum know that I am (and have been) refunding all refunds that were sent to my paypal. Thanks."
refunding all refunds  |
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We're not psychologists, so I would try not to "diagnose" him with disorders. I think it's more likely that aethero (Ryan) posted this, and his wife saw it and deleted it. Anything's possible, but let's look at all the possibilities. Can't give him a formal diagnosis, but as a member of the secret bitcoin illuminati, I can give him an informal diagnosis of paranoid delusions reminiscent of schizophrenia - the psychosis is strong in this one. Care to up your assessment to formal? https://wyobiz.wy.gov/Business/FilingDetails.aspx?eFNum=1840911232410201612310702450472141080200472121142011-001252725 Name Change 09/13/2011 Detail
Filing Name Changed From: Visualeyes LLC To: Coinabul, LLC http://www.bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-otc/logs/2012/12/0217:13 EasyAt I'll sell coin at gox*1.05 if anyone is looking
17:14 ktorp willing to sell 20 bitcoins for moneygram
17:14 aethero ktorp: pm
17:18 aethero Visualeyes LLC
17:19 ReliableSource ziggap ads on bitcointalk now
17:21 aethero Yup
17:24 ktorp looking to sell 20 bitcoins at mt gox rate https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=79910.msg885800#msg885800In partnership with the man (aethero) behind QuickBitcoins, we are offering to host your family's, community's, or gaming clan's Teamspeak 3 server for Bitcoins! We have locations in Atlanta, Georgia, United States and in Amsterdam, Netherlands, to offer you great ping wherever you are from (sorry, Asia). https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=66930Name: aethero
Posts: 0
Activity: 0
Position: Brand new
Date Registered: September 16, 2012, 02:39:00 PM
Last Active: February 26, 2013, 05:28:48 PM I saw this earlier. Is there some context that I'm missing, or did aethero just randomly say this in chat |
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... says the brave keyboard warrior...
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OP hasn't been online for 5 days now.
He lied about having the btc converted and not being able to refund them. The whole thing reeks of scam.
Then there is prodigits, (who could just as well be OP himself btw), just making sure nobody is actually following through with anything.
They are both obviously affiliated in some way, why should I buy that they're not just partners in this scam?
I give this thing until september 15th to be resolved and then I start pushing for JohnK to release OPs personal data.
I don't like getting scammed and there are quite a few fun ways to make a scammer's life a living hell if you know where he lives.
OP, if you are honest, here is what you do:
- Get the money back that you moved on fucking august 20th
- It seems you payed KnC via Bitpay, so the BTC were converted to $ at the rate of 20th august, which is about $120/btc.
- Request a refund from them. They will probably only be able to pay you back the $, for which you then buy back BTC at the current rate of ~$145.
- 120 to 145 means we get about 83% of our btc back.
- Sucks that this is apparently the only way to resolve this, but get to it for fucks sake, before the exchange rate keeps increasing further. I'm ok with just getting 80% of my btc back, as long as you fucking get it done already.
Anyone else living on the East Coast here and wants to go on a little road trip to OP's house? I'll take a bat (and a ball just in case we get stopped). I am busy till end of September though. Actually, let's NOT do that. |
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Yes update please.. The 2nd jupiter should be a no brainer seriously... the machine was never ordered...
Meh. I don't get what's happening right now... Why isn't the 2nd jupiter refunded? Prodigits referred to a "master list," so it should be easy. |
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Got my BTC! Thanks very much! Also, any idea how long this deal is gonna go on for?
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i have asked people to print AR lowers. they are all to pussy. i offered good money, too.
they are too scared and don't understand gun law.
I don't think YOU understand gun law. For them to legally print AND DISTRIBUTE a lower receiver also known legally as a "gun", they would need to have a weapons manufacturing license, and the guns would have to be issued serial numbers. What you are asking them to do is tantamount to shipping a gun in the mail without a FFL. The only way printing a gun is legal is if you do it yourself and it is not transferred out of state or to another party. This smells like a fishing expedition to me. personal production of a firearm using someone else's equipment is totally legal. you ever here of gun making parties? also there are ways to ship it in parts, as the plastic used can easily be fused together again. this wouldn't even require an FFL. Why don't you re-read what he said? Hint: The key word is distribute. |
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Or just wait for the check to clear before you give them BTC and don't clear the check at your local bank.
That too, but checks can be reversed. I'm also pretty sure that check cashing places can sue you if you take the money and it's fraud. |
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I have had someone on IRC contact me about sending me a check for BTC. He said it came from ACM ( http://www.acm.org), so I Google'd it and found this at the bottom of the page. Check Scam Alert
The Association has become aware of a check fraud scheme where fraudulent checks that appear to come from the Association for Computing Machinery are being used to purchase items from Craigslist or possibly eBay. The Association does not make such purchases. You should contact your local police authorities if you receive one of these fraudulent checks. Obviously, the user on IRC was attempting to scam me with a fraudulent check. Just remember: Never accept checks from someone that you don't trust. |
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