Uh, are you seriously doing business with that site? Half of the links don't work, the site is inconsistent for half of the pages, and it downright looks like crap.
That does not encourage business.
no he playing business man no one would send money to a site that looks like a nigerian scammer developed LOL Nobody would send money to a person who cannot use punctuation either.  |
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I am interested but I'm not sure how I should cook the puppy.
Would you recommend sweet and sour sauce with cashews, an orange sauce, or stew with pepper, garlic, pineapple, and a hint of chili?
It's really good with sweet-and-sour sauce with a little bit of pepper. The thing is, you don't want the pineapple in there. It makes it taste like a dessert. |
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You must be joking, have you seen the garbage mods have to deal with already? The last thing I'm gonna do on this forum is share my financial information publicly. For the most part, the mods are good people who care about bitcoin and the community. In return for them donating their free time to help the forum, the very least they deserve is the same privacy everyone else gets.
This. Maybe if mods got paid to do what they do, but as volunteers it doesn't make sense. |
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Uh, are you seriously doing business with that site? Half of the links don't work, the site is inconsistent for half of the pages, and it downright looks like crap.
That does not encourage business.
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So why cancel the order a week later right before the BTC are supposed to be deposited? Wouldnt it make more sense to flag the order right away and cancel it then? And not a week later?
Does it matter what makes sense, or what you agreed to in the contract? |
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Are you guys stupid? They have fraud management. They are using reversible payment methods, and therefore NEED this fraud management!
If you ran coinbase you would do the exact same thing.
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DPony13 I can give you 3 more days for Repayment
Have you had any contact from him? The fuck? Isn't this the guy that was really late on one of his loans? Or was it someone else? Dpony, I mean. |
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My thinking is OP registered w/one of those sites that offers you ALL public information on a person. Why use his service? Its must cheaper since its a 1 time thing. OP, I salute you. I wish I had thought of this first.
In case you didn't notice, social security numbers are not public. This guy actually does real investigation work, finding all the info he can about the person. He goes as far as calling people that he's worked with/his family, from what I saw on my report. He doesn't just go onto a website and type in someone's name. |
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raynxv5CzF17N6uozco8C4QfGFAZph4DeV
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Theymos, more and more people are coming out and saying that Andrew scammed them. I usually don't start these kinds of threads complaining about the forum, but I really disagree with the decision you are making here.
He made a thread recently (I remember someone posted about it in his scammer thread) asking for new business, which was of course locked (nobody could call him out). People are going to to trust him if he doesn't have the red X's. I hate to say it, but many people call looking to see if their counter-party has a scammer tag "research," and see no point to google his name or look through the forums.
I don't see what else we have to prove to you.
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Wow, that's REALLY GOOD! You shouldn't be doing this for free  ! |
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Eric's investigative service is excellent! Highly recommended for the sometimes-seedy bitcoin world. I sent him a name and some other info, and he replied within hours with a lengthy report. I now know what the mark eats for breakfast and how much toilet paper he uses.... Well not really! But close. Thanks again Eric, I will be back. Sometimes seedy? You're very optimistic. |
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I don't think the SEC is smart enough to understand BTC, yet. What is this, insider trading? Given that you can't buy stock for BTC officially I am addressing a particular gap and inefficiency. Also, I am using my money that my money I currently have in the market. I am not violating any laws accepting bitcoin from community members, and using my money to buy stock.
The only real pitfall is taxes. I would have to pass down taxes I pay as fees.
I'm not talking about relating to BTC. I was talking about how you need to be a licensed broker-dealer to do this, and there are MANY nitty-gritty laws that you need to follow for record keeping, how much info you take, etc. Not to mention that this is almost certintaly against the broker's TOS (the one that you're using). You can't just start something like this; it costs lots of time and money to do this. To the Bitcoin community: You should really consider the legal implications of using this guy's service before doing so. You might lose your money. |
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Do you have any relevant qualifications for this? For instance, are you a licensed CPA?
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Keep in mind that I never signed up to be the Universal Arbiter of Bitcoin Truth and Justice. I give people scammer tags when it's extremely clear to me that they've broken agreements or otherwise behaved very unethically. I don't have time to (and I don't want to) investigate these things thoroughly, which is why high-profile scam cases are rarely handled quickly. I wait until things settle down and the truth becomes obvious.
This case is different than others because:
- There seems to currently be no agreement between Andrew Bitcoiner and users of his site. Andrew Bitcoiner's other site definitely said at one point that he could do whatever he wanted with deposited BTC. I assumed that bitjack21 had the same terms, but maybe not. In any case, there is no agreement that prohibits him from doing anything. This doesn't mean that he can do whatever he wants, but it helps his case.
- The affected users haven't proven that their BTC was stolen. (And this would be difficult to prove.)
- There is no clear example of Andrew Bitcoiner breaking explicit promises.
- Only a few users are affected. Things would be clear if every user was affected. But since only a few users are affected, and there was no agreement prohibiting Andrew Bitcoiner from doing anything, I feel like not much justification is necessary for Andrew Bitcoiner to close accounts with some legitimacy. Maybe the accounts were closed after the users broke site rules.
This all adds up to make things not extremely clear to me. So I'm going to err on the side of caution for now. Andrew Bitcoiner should be defending himself -- I will reconsider this if he doesn't start doing so.
Theymos, no offense, this thread (and the previous one) has been up for weeks. I (and a few other people, see my old thread) have emailed him multiple times. He is ignoring this thread. Also, there ARE NO RULES! If you look at the rules, it just tells you what the site does! There are NO RULES TO BREAK! Second, that brings me back to my original argument. Do people who do Bitcoin trades explicitly say that the counterparty can't run away with the money? In the majority of cases, no, this is implied. It's pretty reasonable to believe that a site owner can't run away with a users money. Third, I had emails with Andrew (posted in my other thread, iirc, I'll get those here soon) that prove that I bought BTC for an amazon GC on his site! Then, once I won some BTC and I tried to withdraw, it didn't work. I emailed his support and got ignored several times! What more proof do you want? And you kinda did sign up to be the arbitrator by being the ONLY person that can give scammer tags. If you don't want this responsibility, sign it off to someone els! |
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All is ok if you like and believe in what you do..
No?
Is this Dank or Atlas? Maybe Matthew! Or are they all the same person? Seriously, all three are different people. I don't know Bruno. I think Matt and Atlas are the same person they just live in two different bodies, one in Korea and the other in Texas. LOL I would team up with Matthew as a business partner, have Altas a consultant, and Dank would supply us with substance to keep our creative juices a flowin'. Anybody want to buy some shares? I feel bad for Matthew. He's trying to come back to the forums, and then you guys make fun of him.  I know that he defaulted on his bet, and I don't agree with that decision, but I still feel bad. (And, no, I don't want to threadjack this thread and talk about why we should all hate Matthew.) |
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[...]
In case anybody does miss me you can find me on SA.
[...]
Sexaholics anonymous? http://www.sa.org |
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Have you read their ToS? Ya know, the actual CONTRACT THAT YOU WENT INTO WITH THEM? I'm sure they disclaim responsibility for this sort of thing, since, you know, they don't want HIGH RISK PURCHASES? And, do you know that every financial services provider ever does this? EDIT: Yup, they do! 3.1 Coinbase may cancel or reverse potentially high-risk purchases made using reversible payment methods. https://coinbase.com/legal/user_agreementThere is no legal basis for this thread whatsoever. Coinbase wins. Sorry! Aww, this was the conclusion that the OP was supposed to draw after digging up the contract that they agreed to. He was too stubborn. |
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Guys. A loan TO a business is not the same thing as FOR a business.
The btcjam loan was taken out by RYAN AND STORMY, to start ZIGGAP. The loan was not taken out by ZigGap LLC, but by Ryan and Stormy. They are two different legal entities, and therefore debt owed by (or to) one does not correlate to the other. This it the purpose of an LLC.
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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=148776.0So, I know how easily this thread could possibly turn into a conspiracy thread where people accuse the mods/admins of all sorts of BS. I would like to ask that nobody turn this thread into this. Essentially, I feel like some mods/admins (in this example, theymos) are being very unfair in scammer tag judgements. In the Andrew Bitcoiner thread ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=143980.0), there are many accredited people in the Bitcoin community who have come forward and said that Andrew has scammed them. Theymos even implicitly agreed that the funds were stolen, yet he claims that since he didn't explicitly say that he couldn't steal out Bitcoins, that he's in the green. By this logic, I could scam EVERYONE in this forum and not get a scammer tag. Simply because I didn't say that I couldn't in the contract! By this logic, every scammer is not actually a scammer. Pirate is all cool, since he didn't ACTUALLY steal our Bitcoins... We didn't say he couldn't! The difficulty with this case, IIRC, is that Andrew Bitcoiner's sites had terms which said that he could do whatever he wanted with deposited bitcoins. I might be willing to give him a scammer tag despite this, but this fact really strengthens his case, especially since not all users are affected.
There has never been a Terms of Service on his website (bitjack21). I don't understand where he came up with this. On the rules page, it says that the ToS is located at https://bitjack21.com/tos.php, but it's a 404! And then, my main point: Even though he doesn't defend himself, I don't feel like the situation is clear enough for a scammer tag. Mostly because this is an external site with unclear status and agreements. I can't find a provable instance of him actually breaking any agreements.
He's essentially saying here that JUST BECAUSE he didn't agree that he wouldn't steal our BTC, he's allowed to. One would think this was implied! I am not asking that theymos be kicked out of the forum or anything (because he owns it, iirc), but I would like to have a civilized (read: NO THROWING AROUND ACCUSATIONS) discussion about how the forum is to hand out scammer tags. I fully accept that this forum is essentially a monarchy, and therefore theymos's decision is final, but I would think that the forum would want to make more fair judgements than this.
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